Talk:Agents Stats (Apocalypse)

Hmm, has anyone tried training your accuracy by standing over an alien or two with a pair of stun guns and repeatedly stunning them when they wake up? I'm not sure what differences there are between the experience system in Apocalypse and the first two games, but if it is the same as explained here, then you could make sure each soldier gets in 11 hits for an average of a 4 point increase. Granted this is abusing the system, but it might be helpful if you wanted to conquer Impossible. Captain Foo 12:31, 29 August 2008 (PDT)

That article is written for UFO:Enemy Unknown(and works also for Terror From The Deep, as it uses the same engine). It is completely irrelevant in regards to Apocalypse, and in fact is likely dead wrong, given that Apoc was whole cloth. Arrow Quivershaft 12:48, 29 August 2008 (PDT)

The fact that hitting things increases accuracy still holds true does help. Then again, you don't have to wait for the alien to wake up. Just shift-click their bodies to repeatedly hit them. Or heck, go on a stun-raid and zap hapless rent-a-cops to your hearts content. I find that you don't have to put very much effort into training accuracy at all. Just get up close and unleash a weapon like a pair of M4000s or Lawpistols on full auto for a couple of missions, and your accuracy will shoot up naturally. Or I suppose a month or two of uninterrupted (i.e. no health loss) training in the combat gym will do that too. I'm guessing increased hits does equate to increased accuracy improvements in general, but how much is needed or how much is progressed may very well have different mechanics involved. -NKF 14:22, 29 August 2008 (PDT)

Hmm... I've been trying out stun raids lately. It seems if you really wanted to be cheap, you could stun a large group of the guards, leave your squad standing over them to keep stunning them, and go watch TV for a bit. Wash, rinse and repeat for more experience.

Occasionally you hit your own guys though. I wonder if friendly fire counts towards experience. :) Captain Foo 10:16, 30 August 2008 (PDT)

Bravery

According to the entry on Bravery (and my experience in the game), it can never exceed 100. Did I miss something, or should we edit the table? diegoba 05:44, 4 January 2010 (EST)

Just guessing here, but I think the numbers listed in the table are the maximum you can edit your soldier stats to. Only Androids can sustain these values. Any stats exceeding the official caps will atrophy on humans and hybrids whenever they earn combat experience. This will happen until they are dropped down to the caps. -NKF 06:31, 4 January 2010 (EST)

Yes, I'm trying to figure out the actual limits, the values I put there I got from editing the files and see what were the maximums allowed. Hobbes 11:38, 4 January 2010 (EST)

Hmm...Health looks wrongly low; I'm on day 8 with a human with 69 health, and there's some references on the XCOMUFO forums to 100 health being theoretically possible in-game. -- Zaimoni 4:49 5 Jan 2010 (CST)

Stamina

Under what conditions is stamina observed to recover in turn-based combat? I have a game where no stamina recovery happened between turn 1 and turn 2 for a hapless hybrid. -- Zaimoni 3:38 7 Jan 2010 (CST)

Accuracy

Accuracy is measured as a miss value, where smaller numbers give better accuracy. It is displayed as 100 - agent value. A perfect agent has 96 accuracy, which corresponds to a data value of 4. Attempting to give an agent better accuracy will reset their value (before/after?) a mission. -- User:Bobucles Dec 12 2012

Giving an agent more than the max will result in it degrading after a mission down to 96. I think it's a slight extension of how accuracy is earned in EU/TFTD, but auto corrects itself by making anything earned over the max turn into a negative.NKF 16:16, 11 December 2012 (EST)

Does somebody know the accuracy formula for Apoc? My understanding is that it's

Miss Chance = (100 - soldier accuracy) * (100 - weapon accuracy) * modifiers * scaling factor

but I'm not sure what the scaling factor is or what all the modifiers are. I think Makus probably knows this? Magic9mushroom (talk) 14:58, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

There is also a hard max accuracy limit for each weapon. Similar to how Stun Damage only stuns up to X Health, and everything above requires you to damage the enemy to bring the Health below the threshold. One example would be the Toxi Gun compared to the Laser Sniper Rifle when having a soldier with max accuracy switch between the aim modes with each weapon. The Toxi Gun will hit its accuarcy limit at the Snap Shot mode already but at around what looks like 60% or 70% instead of 100%, while the Aimed Shot mode won't increase on the weapons accuracy. Bard (talk) 22:04, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

On reflection I'm not sure the formula I posted above is accurate, as the Laser Sniper Gun seems to have more inaccuracy in all modes than one would expect from that formula. One annoying thing about Apocalypse is that it doesn't give you an actual number on chance to hit, so it's hard to check cases. Magic9mushroom (talk) 09:23, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

With respect to what you were talking about with a cap - I don't think it's a cap per se. As accuracy gets higher, the difference between modes goes smoothly down to "negligible" at 96. I think there's addition going on of miss chances between a component from the weapon (which is not affected by accuracy or modifiers) and a second component which depends on accuracy and modifiers (not sure whether it also depends on the weapon, though it definitely doesn't depend on it linearly). High accuracy means the second component gets lower, which means modifiers matter less, until at 96 (where your "inaccuracy" is 4, only 5% of what it was at accuracy 20) the second component is negligible and you have basically the same (high) accuracy between prone/aimed and walking/auto/dual-wielding. You still, however, have the first component, based on the weapon. Or in maths:

Miss Chance = (100 - weapon accuracy) * scaling factor + (100 - soldier accuracy) * modifiers * scaling factor

Still not 100% certain about this, though. Magic9mushroom (talk) 11:41, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Someone from OpenApoc has given me this. I'm not entirely sure what some of those things are, and I'm not 100% sure whether the value it spits out goes into a scatter spread or a hit/miss test, but this looks very much like the answer and I wanted to get it down. It's a root-sum-square of a lot of terms, and indeed most of the modifiers affect the "agent accuracy" term. Immediately jumping out is that inaccuracy cannot be reduced below (weapon inaccuracy/2) since that's one of the terms. Magic9mushroom (talk) 15:20, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Reactions

According to this topic, in real time mode Reactions also seem to determine how quickly your agent actually spots an alien. Can someone confirm this?

http://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1686

Darkpast (talk) 14:27, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm not too sure about that, however, what you can observe in real time mode is how someone with low reactions takes a much longer time to raise his weapon and shoot than someone with high reactions.

As for how quickly they can spot aliens, that is also an issue of how DOSBox is set up. If it runs too slow, i.e. standard Steam/GoG settings, or if you have a bad custom DOSBox configuration, you can notice how it takes longer for the spotted alien message and indicators to appear. Bard (talk) 20:46, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Hybrid agents are shorter?

An interesting fact I've dug up via Apoc'd is that Hybrids ("Alien Grey" in the files) seem to be shorter than Humans and Androids ("Size X" is 24 compared to 32). This might make them slightly harder to hit, if the accuracy mechanics are the same as in the first two games. Darkpast (talk) 19:29, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Alien Grey are the Sectoids you encounter in the Alien Dimension in the Food Chambers I think and not the Hybrids.

All Soldiers are assigned the "X-COM Agent" Group, which is why Androids are not immune to Stun Gas for example, even though they should be, while their base stats are not overwritten by that group. However, even the "latest" Apoc'd Version 3.10b doesn't show everything there is to see. Bard (talk) 20:19, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Hm, interesting. Hybrids definitely use the "Alien Grey" values for their starting stats though. It's possible that both Hybrids and the Sectoid prisoners use the same stats. Darkpast (talk) 07:05, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Pretty sure there's some screwery going on where the variable stats of soldiers are initialised from Alien Grey but the actual unit (in other ways) is an X-COM Agent.

Also, if the accuracy mechanics were the same as in the first two games it would not matter (very much) whether they were shorter, because of the hit/miss test (calculated "hit"s are effectively guaranteed to hit; calculated "miss"es are unlikely to hit except at close range). Apocalypse, however, does not have a hit/miss test; the inaccuracy number is directly fed into a spread (this is why Apocalypse never tells you exact accuracies). Magic9mushroom (talk) 07:59, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, well that's why I said "slightly"; perhaps "marginally" would have been a better word. Darkpast (talk) 10:32, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

My point was that actual Apocalypse accuracies are in fact affected by target size much more than those of UFO/TFTD. Magic9mushroom (talk) 14:21, 21 June 2020 (UTC)