https://www.ufopaedia.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Jasonred&feedformat=atomUFOpaedia - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T12:37:57ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.4https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Making_The_Game_Harder_(EU2012)&diff=56022Making The Game Harder (EU2012)2014-03-16T22:56:03Z<p>Jasonred: /* Mixed Difficulty */</p>
<hr />
<div>This page is intended for players who finish the game frequently on the higher difficulties (Classic/Impossible/Ironman/Second Wave) and would like to keep the challenge alive or to add a little extra spice to their games. <br />
<br />
Naturally it is quite easy to handicap yourself while playing the game: using only conventional weaponry, no armor, only pistols, etc. Some of these situations are detailed here, in addition to exploits/cheats/tactics that make the game easier, which you might want to refrain from using.<br />
<br />
Feel free to suggest more or try any of these ideas (or all of them!). Some may make the game very hard or even impossible to win. Most of these ideas are based on a [[Making_the_Game_Harder|similar page]] for the original game. <br />
<br />
==Ingame Maximum Difficulty Settings==<br />
* Impossible and Ironman settings<br />
* Use all [[Second Wave (EU2012)|Second Wave]] options<br />
* Under the Game Options, uncheck the option that shows the aliens Health Points bar<br />
<br />
===Second Wave Settings===<br />
Second Wave is designed to enhance the game play experience. Most settings increase the difficulty level but others have a mixed effects after players have mastered them.<br />
<br />
====Maximum Difficulty====<br />
* '''Damage Roulette''' - random damage can affect both sides in battle but it limits more the planning of the human player than the AI, specially when playing without enemy HP bars visible (one of the game options). You'll only know if that Plasma Sniper Rifle shot dealt 19 or 1 damage to that still standing Ethereal if you hit it with the next shot...<br />
* '''More Than Human''' - a must have. Limits the use of Psionic soldiers to 1 or 2 on each game, instead of bringing a full Psionic squad and walking completely over the aliens. And, with '''The Greater Good''' you may also start considering how wise it is to bring your only Psionic soldier to every fight due to the rare chance of finding another one. <br />
* '''The Greater Good''' - requires a live alien to research Psionics. <br />
* '''Red Fog''' - affects only XCOM soldiers. Makes prolonged fights more difficult due to the loss of stats from injuries in combat. <br />
* '''Results Driven''' - funding is affected by panic level. Once full satellite coverage is achieved it becomes less effective.<br />
* '''Diminishing Returns''' - satellite cost greatly increases after each one is build (can be double). <br />
* '''Total Loss''' - losing a fully equipped soldiers will now also cost greatly in credits and material resources, besides its training. <br />
* '''War Wariness''' - funding will drop each month until it reaches zero. Period. <br />
* '''Alternate Sources''' - HQ power costs are doubled. More credits and construction space required for Engineering. <br />
* '''Mind Hates Matter''' - Psionic soldiers can't have Gene Mods. <br />
* '''Itchy Finger Tentacle''' - non-cover aliens have a 50% chance of shooting on sight instead of overwatching<br />
<br />
====Mixed Difficulty====<br />
*'''Marathon''' - This option doubles the time and costs required for research, building, manufacturing, etc.<br />
<br />
In terms of combat, the player actually has more time to train soldiers because Marathon gives more missions with the same type of aliens before the next higher type of alien species or UFO appears, with an player disadvantage for the first few months as the player has to deal with being underequipped vs the aliens for a longer time.<br />
<br />
However, this option has a more drastic effect on the game difficulty in the strategic portion of the game, especially in the higher difficulty levels. This is because panic increases and abduction mission frequency will not be altered from the normal game, whereas it takes more than twice as long to get your satellites, nexus, alien base research, etc, up and running. On impossible difficulty, it is not unlikely to lose 4 countries in the first month and only be able to get 1 satellite up in the 2nd month.<br />
*'''New Economy''' & '''High Stakes''' - both the randomization of the countries funding and the mission rewards can work either way, either helping or challenging the player. But unlike in the battlefield it is more easy to correct any mistakes. <br />
* '''Not Created Equally''' & '''Hidden Potential''' - if you have the credits, you can just sack lower stat rookies and replace them with better ones. <br />
* '''E-115''' - stockpiling Elerium becomes more difficult but at the same time selling it right after UFO recovery brings much needed credits in the early game. <br />
*'''Absolutely Critical''' - actually balances the effect of '''Damage Roulette''' due to the certainty it provides of the shot inflicting some Critical Damage. The aliens will also benefit from it but it also makes the player to use more deadly flanking maneuvers.<br />
*'''Aiming Angles''' - benefits both the aliens and your soldiers.<br />
*'''Training Roulette''' - can either create super soldiers or give them nearly useless abilities.<br />
<br />
==Speed XCOM==<br />
Complete the game as quickly as possible. You can either do this:<br />
* In real time - see how many real hours it takes to finish the game.<br />
* In game time - see how many game days it takes to finish the game. <br />
** Current known record is 93 game days (June 3rd). Victory screenshot available [http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/469804532000885358/27D7F2E440AEB7ABDDB377FF3EDDA43B74630F92/ here].<br />
The quickest results can be achieved if playing on Easy difficulty.<br />
<br />
==Harder at Home==<br />
Handicap yourself from options in your base:<br />
*When building facilites, don't get any adjency bonuses.<br />
*Limit yourself to bulding two sattelites a month.<br />
*Bite the hands that feed you: refuse all Council Sales/Missions<br />
*Don't buy additional soldiers: your starting pool is all you got.<br />
*And Not A Single **** Was Given: Ignore all EXALT operations.<br />
*Choose only one type of reward from Abductions/Council Requests/Missions for an entire campaign, and ignore the others:<br />
**The Idle Rich: Only accept § rewards, restricting how many Scientists and Engineers you recieve. Enhance by putting on '''Marathon'''.<br />
**Bookworm: Only Scientist Rewards. Advanced research will get done quick-- too bad you can't build/buy any of it.<br />
**Just McGuyver It: Engineers Only. All you'll have for a while is Medkits-- but they'll be the cheapest you ever could afford to buy two of!<br />
<br />
==Psionics==<br />
===Offensive Psionics===<br />
* No use of psionic powers allowed.<br />
* Only 1 Psionic soldier capable of using Psionics<br />
* No Mind Control <br />
===Defensive Psionics===<br />
* No Mind Shields or Psi Armor allowed (with the exception of the Volunteer for the final mission).<br />
<br />
==Firepower/Technology==<br />
<br />
===Technophobe===<br />
* You may not use or research any alien related items. All artifacts recovered from missions must be sold immediately, with the exception of those required to progress the storyline. This essentially means that you'll be restricted to only conventional weapons to fight, either on air on on the ground. Good luck.<br />
* You may also never accept scientists as mission rewards or build any Labs unless the scientists comes from the satellite coverage bonus. <br />
===Conventional Only===<br />
* You may only use conventional weapons, armor, and/or 1st level SHIVs & MEC suits throughout the entire game. <br />
===Anachronism===<br />
* A lighter version of the above: only allow yourself to upgrade either weapons ''or'' armor.<br />
===Laser Squad===<br />
* You may only deploy Lasers weapons and/or Carapace/Skeleton armor on any combat mission.<br />
===Rise Of The Robots===<br />
* After getting the Foundry (which should be your 1st priority) you'll use as many SHIVs as possible instead of human soldiers. MEC Troopers may also be used.<br />
* Rock'em Sock'em Robots: Guns are for sissies. PUNCH. EVERYTHING.<br />
<br />
===Limited Squads===<br />
* Don't purchase Squad Size I & II and stick to the 4 soldier squad throughout the entire campaign. (now available as the '''Army Of Four''' achievement). <br />
<br />
===Gunslinger===<br />
* Only use pistols throughout the entire game <br />
** Heavies and several abilities become useless, together with Frag and Alien grenades.<br />
** On the plus side, you'll never have to reload your weapon or worry about ammo the entire game. <br />
** On the minus side, most aliens will now require at least the double of shots to eliminate them, even with a fully upgraded Plasma Pistol (and capturing and researching one should be a top priority).<br />
** The key abilities to have for Pistols are: Rapid Fire and Bring 'Em On (Assault) and Gunslinger and Double Tap (Sniper), which have both effects of allowing a 2nd shot and increasing the pistol's damage. The Foundry's Improved Pistol upgrades are also essential.<br />
** Headshot, Snap Shot and Disabling Shot are useless for Snipers, Rifle Suppression for Supports and Flush for Assaults. <br />
<br />
===Top Gun===<br />
* Only use Interceptors - don't build Firestorms<br />
** It may be impossible to shoot down the Overseer using only Interceptors, specially at the higher difficulty levels. <br />
* Don't research advanced Air to Air weapons and stick to Avalanches.<br />
<br />
==Classes/Abilities==<br />
===Trying Something New===<br />
Don't choose any of these abilities while leveling up soldiers:<br />
* Squad Sight (Sniper)<br />
* Field Medic (Support)<br />
* Rapid Fire (Assault) <br />
* HEAT Ammo (Heavy)<br />
===Voluntary Retirement===<br />
* Once a soldier reaches Colonel rank it is immediately retired and dismissed from service as a reward for his/her services fighting the alien invasion.<br />
* Or the same as above but dismiss all commissioned officers, which means everyone from Lieutenant upwards.<br />
* Or you could limit your soldiers to a single "tour of duty" comprising a set number of deployments. 10 is a challenge; 20 is close to a normal game.<br />
<br />
===Valkyrie Squad===<br />
* Dismiss all the ugly XY mutts still alive at the Barracks after the 1st mission and only use female soldiers during the entire game. <br />
===Single Class===<br />
* Use only one class of soldiers during a mission or the entire game. <br />
<br />
===V.I.P.s===<br />
*Very much like the "Ain't No Cavalry Comin'" achievement:<br />
*Near the start of the game select ten soldiers to be your Very Important People. (or V.I.P.s for short) <br />
*Change their armour or names to indicate that they are V.I.P.s. <br />
*You must bring at least one V.I.P. along to every mission. <br />
*If a V.I.P. is killed you may not replace him. <br />
*If all of your V.I.P.s are dead, you must completely abandon the current campaign. <br />
*In the event that all of your remaining V.I.P.s end up in the infirmary and awaiting recovery you may still play until they recover, after that you must again bring at least one V.I.P. to each mission.<br />
*You may also pull a V.I.P. out of a mission if things get hairy.<br />
<br />
===The Few===<br />
:''Never was so much owed by so many to so few.''<br />
* Complete your game without hiring any additional soldiers.<br />
* If all survivors fail the Psi test that's game over.<br />
*:''The Progeny campaign can solve this problem by allowing you to recruit 1-4 guaranteed psionics from missions''<br />
<br />
==Adding more players==<br />
This option makes the game more interesting, rather than harder, for now, there are more players, each one having a role in XCOM. Now, real-world events could effect XCOM, such as illness, marriage, jobs etc. etc. Teamwork, and cooperation are very much an important an important element now, because there is now more than one player.<br />
It could make the game harder because arguments and other problems could create a rift between players, and thus, divide XCOM.<br />
It could also make the game easier because one player only has to worry about one thing at once.<br />
<br />
*Multiple Players for the soldiers<br />
**Pretty self explanatory, one player for every soldier<br />
*One player as "Commander" and more players to control research and/or engineering.<br />
**This requires fewer players, one to control the army, one player on research, and one player handles engineering, they can now all agree on a budget for each other, such as dividing the alloys and weapon fragments for the research team and engineering, for example. You can even have another player to control interceptors and/or satellites and seeing that country requests are fulfilled.<br />
<br />
==Enemy Within==<br />
===Meld Related===<br />
*"'''Mechless'''" – Complete the game without using any MECs<br />
*"'''Geneless'''" – Complete the game without using any Gene Mods<br />
*"'''Meldless'''" – Complete the game without researching [[Meld Recombination (EU2012)|Meld Recombination]]<br />
<br />
[[Category: Enemy Unknown (2012)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Making_The_Game_Harder_(EU2012)&diff=56021Making The Game Harder (EU2012)2014-03-16T22:55:35Z<p>Jasonred: /* Mixed Difficulty */</p>
<hr />
<div>This page is intended for players who finish the game frequently on the higher difficulties (Classic/Impossible/Ironman/Second Wave) and would like to keep the challenge alive or to add a little extra spice to their games. <br />
<br />
Naturally it is quite easy to handicap yourself while playing the game: using only conventional weaponry, no armor, only pistols, etc. Some of these situations are detailed here, in addition to exploits/cheats/tactics that make the game easier, which you might want to refrain from using.<br />
<br />
Feel free to suggest more or try any of these ideas (or all of them!). Some may make the game very hard or even impossible to win. Most of these ideas are based on a [[Making_the_Game_Harder|similar page]] for the original game. <br />
<br />
==Ingame Maximum Difficulty Settings==<br />
* Impossible and Ironman settings<br />
* Use all [[Second Wave (EU2012)|Second Wave]] options<br />
* Under the Game Options, uncheck the option that shows the aliens Health Points bar<br />
<br />
===Second Wave Settings===<br />
Second Wave is designed to enhance the game play experience. Most settings increase the difficulty level but others have a mixed effects after players have mastered them.<br />
<br />
====Maximum Difficulty====<br />
* '''Damage Roulette''' - random damage can affect both sides in battle but it limits more the planning of the human player than the AI, specially when playing without enemy HP bars visible (one of the game options). You'll only know if that Plasma Sniper Rifle shot dealt 19 or 1 damage to that still standing Ethereal if you hit it with the next shot...<br />
* '''More Than Human''' - a must have. Limits the use of Psionic soldiers to 1 or 2 on each game, instead of bringing a full Psionic squad and walking completely over the aliens. And, with '''The Greater Good''' you may also start considering how wise it is to bring your only Psionic soldier to every fight due to the rare chance of finding another one. <br />
* '''The Greater Good''' - requires a live alien to research Psionics. <br />
* '''Red Fog''' - affects only XCOM soldiers. Makes prolonged fights more difficult due to the loss of stats from injuries in combat. <br />
* '''Results Driven''' - funding is affected by panic level. Once full satellite coverage is achieved it becomes less effective.<br />
* '''Diminishing Returns''' - satellite cost greatly increases after each one is build (can be double). <br />
* '''Total Loss''' - losing a fully equipped soldiers will now also cost greatly in credits and material resources, besides its training. <br />
* '''War Wariness''' - funding will drop each month until it reaches zero. Period. <br />
* '''Alternate Sources''' - HQ power costs are doubled. More credits and construction space required for Engineering. <br />
* '''Mind Hates Matter''' - Psionic soldiers can't have Gene Mods. <br />
* '''Itchy Finger Tentacle''' - non-cover aliens have a 50% chance of shooting on sight instead of overwatching<br />
<br />
====Mixed Difficulty====<br />
*'''Marathon''' - This option doubles the time and costs required for research, building, manufacturing, etc.<br />
In terms of combat, the player actually has more time to train soldiers because Marathon gives more missions with the same type of aliens before the next higher type of alien species or UFO appears, with an player disadvantage for the first few months as the player has to deal with being underequipped vs the aliens for a longer time.<br />
However, this option has a more drastic effect on the game difficulty in the strategic portion of the game, especially in the higher difficulty levels. This is because panic increases and abduction mission frequency will not be altered from the normal game, whereas it takes more than twice as long to get your satellites, nexus, alien base research, etc, up and running. On impossible difficulty, it is not unlikely to lose 4 countries in the first month and only be able to get 1 satellite up in the 2nd month.<br />
*'''New Economy''' & '''High Stakes''' - both the randomization of the countries funding and the mission rewards can work either way, either helping or challenging the player. But unlike in the battlefield it is more easy to correct any mistakes. <br />
* '''Not Created Equally''' & '''Hidden Potential''' - if you have the credits, you can just sack lower stat rookies and replace them with better ones. <br />
* '''E-115''' - stockpiling Elerium becomes more difficult but at the same time selling it right after UFO recovery brings much needed credits in the early game. <br />
*'''Absolutely Critical''' - actually balances the effect of '''Damage Roulette''' due to the certainty it provides of the shot inflicting some Critical Damage. The aliens will also benefit from it but it also makes the player to use more deadly flanking maneuvers.<br />
*'''Aiming Angles''' - benefits both the aliens and your soldiers.<br />
*'''Training Roulette''' - can either create super soldiers or give them nearly useless abilities.<br />
<br />
==Speed XCOM==<br />
Complete the game as quickly as possible. You can either do this:<br />
* In real time - see how many real hours it takes to finish the game.<br />
* In game time - see how many game days it takes to finish the game. <br />
** Current known record is 93 game days (June 3rd). Victory screenshot available [http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/469804532000885358/27D7F2E440AEB7ABDDB377FF3EDDA43B74630F92/ here].<br />
The quickest results can be achieved if playing on Easy difficulty.<br />
<br />
==Harder at Home==<br />
Handicap yourself from options in your base:<br />
*When building facilites, don't get any adjency bonuses.<br />
*Limit yourself to bulding two sattelites a month.<br />
*Bite the hands that feed you: refuse all Council Sales/Missions<br />
*Don't buy additional soldiers: your starting pool is all you got.<br />
*And Not A Single **** Was Given: Ignore all EXALT operations.<br />
*Choose only one type of reward from Abductions/Council Requests/Missions for an entire campaign, and ignore the others:<br />
**The Idle Rich: Only accept § rewards, restricting how many Scientists and Engineers you recieve. Enhance by putting on '''Marathon'''.<br />
**Bookworm: Only Scientist Rewards. Advanced research will get done quick-- too bad you can't build/buy any of it.<br />
**Just McGuyver It: Engineers Only. All you'll have for a while is Medkits-- but they'll be the cheapest you ever could afford to buy two of!<br />
<br />
==Psionics==<br />
===Offensive Psionics===<br />
* No use of psionic powers allowed.<br />
* Only 1 Psionic soldier capable of using Psionics<br />
* No Mind Control <br />
===Defensive Psionics===<br />
* No Mind Shields or Psi Armor allowed (with the exception of the Volunteer for the final mission).<br />
<br />
==Firepower/Technology==<br />
<br />
===Technophobe===<br />
* You may not use or research any alien related items. All artifacts recovered from missions must be sold immediately, with the exception of those required to progress the storyline. This essentially means that you'll be restricted to only conventional weapons to fight, either on air on on the ground. Good luck.<br />
* You may also never accept scientists as mission rewards or build any Labs unless the scientists comes from the satellite coverage bonus. <br />
===Conventional Only===<br />
* You may only use conventional weapons, armor, and/or 1st level SHIVs & MEC suits throughout the entire game. <br />
===Anachronism===<br />
* A lighter version of the above: only allow yourself to upgrade either weapons ''or'' armor.<br />
===Laser Squad===<br />
* You may only deploy Lasers weapons and/or Carapace/Skeleton armor on any combat mission.<br />
===Rise Of The Robots===<br />
* After getting the Foundry (which should be your 1st priority) you'll use as many SHIVs as possible instead of human soldiers. MEC Troopers may also be used.<br />
* Rock'em Sock'em Robots: Guns are for sissies. PUNCH. EVERYTHING.<br />
<br />
===Limited Squads===<br />
* Don't purchase Squad Size I & II and stick to the 4 soldier squad throughout the entire campaign. (now available as the '''Army Of Four''' achievement). <br />
<br />
===Gunslinger===<br />
* Only use pistols throughout the entire game <br />
** Heavies and several abilities become useless, together with Frag and Alien grenades.<br />
** On the plus side, you'll never have to reload your weapon or worry about ammo the entire game. <br />
** On the minus side, most aliens will now require at least the double of shots to eliminate them, even with a fully upgraded Plasma Pistol (and capturing and researching one should be a top priority).<br />
** The key abilities to have for Pistols are: Rapid Fire and Bring 'Em On (Assault) and Gunslinger and Double Tap (Sniper), which have both effects of allowing a 2nd shot and increasing the pistol's damage. The Foundry's Improved Pistol upgrades are also essential.<br />
** Headshot, Snap Shot and Disabling Shot are useless for Snipers, Rifle Suppression for Supports and Flush for Assaults. <br />
<br />
===Top Gun===<br />
* Only use Interceptors - don't build Firestorms<br />
** It may be impossible to shoot down the Overseer using only Interceptors, specially at the higher difficulty levels. <br />
* Don't research advanced Air to Air weapons and stick to Avalanches.<br />
<br />
==Classes/Abilities==<br />
===Trying Something New===<br />
Don't choose any of these abilities while leveling up soldiers:<br />
* Squad Sight (Sniper)<br />
* Field Medic (Support)<br />
* Rapid Fire (Assault) <br />
* HEAT Ammo (Heavy)<br />
===Voluntary Retirement===<br />
* Once a soldier reaches Colonel rank it is immediately retired and dismissed from service as a reward for his/her services fighting the alien invasion.<br />
* Or the same as above but dismiss all commissioned officers, which means everyone from Lieutenant upwards.<br />
* Or you could limit your soldiers to a single "tour of duty" comprising a set number of deployments. 10 is a challenge; 20 is close to a normal game.<br />
<br />
===Valkyrie Squad===<br />
* Dismiss all the ugly XY mutts still alive at the Barracks after the 1st mission and only use female soldiers during the entire game. <br />
===Single Class===<br />
* Use only one class of soldiers during a mission or the entire game. <br />
<br />
===V.I.P.s===<br />
*Very much like the "Ain't No Cavalry Comin'" achievement:<br />
*Near the start of the game select ten soldiers to be your Very Important People. (or V.I.P.s for short) <br />
*Change their armour or names to indicate that they are V.I.P.s. <br />
*You must bring at least one V.I.P. along to every mission. <br />
*If a V.I.P. is killed you may not replace him. <br />
*If all of your V.I.P.s are dead, you must completely abandon the current campaign. <br />
*In the event that all of your remaining V.I.P.s end up in the infirmary and awaiting recovery you may still play until they recover, after that you must again bring at least one V.I.P. to each mission.<br />
*You may also pull a V.I.P. out of a mission if things get hairy.<br />
<br />
===The Few===<br />
:''Never was so much owed by so many to so few.''<br />
* Complete your game without hiring any additional soldiers.<br />
* If all survivors fail the Psi test that's game over.<br />
*:''The Progeny campaign can solve this problem by allowing you to recruit 1-4 guaranteed psionics from missions''<br />
<br />
==Adding more players==<br />
This option makes the game more interesting, rather than harder, for now, there are more players, each one having a role in XCOM. Now, real-world events could effect XCOM, such as illness, marriage, jobs etc. etc. Teamwork, and cooperation are very much an important an important element now, because there is now more than one player.<br />
It could make the game harder because arguments and other problems could create a rift between players, and thus, divide XCOM.<br />
It could also make the game easier because one player only has to worry about one thing at once.<br />
<br />
*Multiple Players for the soldiers<br />
**Pretty self explanatory, one player for every soldier<br />
*One player as "Commander" and more players to control research and/or engineering.<br />
**This requires fewer players, one to control the army, one player on research, and one player handles engineering, they can now all agree on a budget for each other, such as dividing the alloys and weapon fragments for the research team and engineering, for example. You can even have another player to control interceptors and/or satellites and seeing that country requests are fulfilled.<br />
<br />
==Enemy Within==<br />
===Meld Related===<br />
*"'''Mechless'''" – Complete the game without using any MECs<br />
*"'''Geneless'''" – Complete the game without using any Gene Mods<br />
*"'''Meldless'''" – Complete the game without researching [[Meld Recombination (EU2012)|Meld Recombination]]<br />
<br />
[[Category: Enemy Unknown (2012)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Making_The_Game_Harder_(EU2012)&diff=56020Making The Game Harder (EU2012)2014-03-16T22:54:56Z<p>Jasonred: /* Mixed Difficulty */</p>
<hr />
<div>This page is intended for players who finish the game frequently on the higher difficulties (Classic/Impossible/Ironman/Second Wave) and would like to keep the challenge alive or to add a little extra spice to their games. <br />
<br />
Naturally it is quite easy to handicap yourself while playing the game: using only conventional weaponry, no armor, only pistols, etc. Some of these situations are detailed here, in addition to exploits/cheats/tactics that make the game easier, which you might want to refrain from using.<br />
<br />
Feel free to suggest more or try any of these ideas (or all of them!). Some may make the game very hard or even impossible to win. Most of these ideas are based on a [[Making_the_Game_Harder|similar page]] for the original game. <br />
<br />
==Ingame Maximum Difficulty Settings==<br />
* Impossible and Ironman settings<br />
* Use all [[Second Wave (EU2012)|Second Wave]] options<br />
* Under the Game Options, uncheck the option that shows the aliens Health Points bar<br />
<br />
===Second Wave Settings===<br />
Second Wave is designed to enhance the game play experience. Most settings increase the difficulty level but others have a mixed effects after players have mastered them.<br />
<br />
====Maximum Difficulty====<br />
* '''Damage Roulette''' - random damage can affect both sides in battle but it limits more the planning of the human player than the AI, specially when playing without enemy HP bars visible (one of the game options). You'll only know if that Plasma Sniper Rifle shot dealt 19 or 1 damage to that still standing Ethereal if you hit it with the next shot...<br />
* '''More Than Human''' - a must have. Limits the use of Psionic soldiers to 1 or 2 on each game, instead of bringing a full Psionic squad and walking completely over the aliens. And, with '''The Greater Good''' you may also start considering how wise it is to bring your only Psionic soldier to every fight due to the rare chance of finding another one. <br />
* '''The Greater Good''' - requires a live alien to research Psionics. <br />
* '''Red Fog''' - affects only XCOM soldiers. Makes prolonged fights more difficult due to the loss of stats from injuries in combat. <br />
* '''Results Driven''' - funding is affected by panic level. Once full satellite coverage is achieved it becomes less effective.<br />
* '''Diminishing Returns''' - satellite cost greatly increases after each one is build (can be double). <br />
* '''Total Loss''' - losing a fully equipped soldiers will now also cost greatly in credits and material resources, besides its training. <br />
* '''War Wariness''' - funding will drop each month until it reaches zero. Period. <br />
* '''Alternate Sources''' - HQ power costs are doubled. More credits and construction space required for Engineering. <br />
* '''Mind Hates Matter''' - Psionic soldiers can't have Gene Mods. <br />
* '''Itchy Finger Tentacle''' - non-cover aliens have a 50% chance of shooting on sight instead of overwatching<br />
<br />
====Mixed Difficulty====<br />
*'''Marathon''' - This option doubles the time and costs required for research, building, manufacturing, etc.<br />
In terms of combat, the player actually has more time to train soldiers because Marathon gives more missions with the same type of aliens before the next higher type of alien species or UFO appears, with an player disadvantage for the first few months as the player has to deal with being underequipped vs the aliens for a longer time.<br />
However, this option has a more drastic effect in upping the game difficulty in the strategic portion of the game, especially in the higher difficulty levels. This is because panic increases and abduction mission frequency will not be altered from the normal game, whereas it takes more than twice as long to get your satellites, nexus, alien base research, etc, up and running. On impossible difficulty, it is not unlikely to lose 4 countries in the first month and only be able to get 1 satellite up in the 2nd month.<br />
*'''New Economy''' & '''High Stakes''' - both the randomization of the countries funding and the mission rewards can work either way, either helping or challenging the player. But unlike in the battlefield it is more easy to correct any mistakes. <br />
* '''Not Created Equally''' & '''Hidden Potential''' - if you have the credits, you can just sack lower stat rookies and replace them with better ones. <br />
* '''E-115''' - stockpiling Elerium becomes more difficult but at the same time selling it right after UFO recovery brings much needed credits in the early game. <br />
*'''Absolutely Critical''' - actually balances the effect of '''Damage Roulette''' due to the certainty it provides of the shot inflicting some Critical Damage. The aliens will also benefit from it but it also makes the player to use more deadly flanking maneuvers.<br />
*'''Aiming Angles''' - benefits both the aliens and your soldiers.<br />
*'''Training Roulette''' - can either create super soldiers or give them nearly useless abilities.<br />
<br />
==Speed XCOM==<br />
Complete the game as quickly as possible. You can either do this:<br />
* In real time - see how many real hours it takes to finish the game.<br />
* In game time - see how many game days it takes to finish the game. <br />
** Current known record is 93 game days (June 3rd). Victory screenshot available [http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/469804532000885358/27D7F2E440AEB7ABDDB377FF3EDDA43B74630F92/ here].<br />
The quickest results can be achieved if playing on Easy difficulty.<br />
<br />
==Harder at Home==<br />
Handicap yourself from options in your base:<br />
*When building facilites, don't get any adjency bonuses.<br />
*Limit yourself to bulding two sattelites a month.<br />
*Bite the hands that feed you: refuse all Council Sales/Missions<br />
*Don't buy additional soldiers: your starting pool is all you got.<br />
*And Not A Single **** Was Given: Ignore all EXALT operations.<br />
*Choose only one type of reward from Abductions/Council Requests/Missions for an entire campaign, and ignore the others:<br />
**The Idle Rich: Only accept § rewards, restricting how many Scientists and Engineers you recieve. Enhance by putting on '''Marathon'''.<br />
**Bookworm: Only Scientist Rewards. Advanced research will get done quick-- too bad you can't build/buy any of it.<br />
**Just McGuyver It: Engineers Only. All you'll have for a while is Medkits-- but they'll be the cheapest you ever could afford to buy two of!<br />
<br />
==Psionics==<br />
===Offensive Psionics===<br />
* No use of psionic powers allowed.<br />
* Only 1 Psionic soldier capable of using Psionics<br />
* No Mind Control <br />
===Defensive Psionics===<br />
* No Mind Shields or Psi Armor allowed (with the exception of the Volunteer for the final mission).<br />
<br />
==Firepower/Technology==<br />
<br />
===Technophobe===<br />
* You may not use or research any alien related items. All artifacts recovered from missions must be sold immediately, with the exception of those required to progress the storyline. This essentially means that you'll be restricted to only conventional weapons to fight, either on air on on the ground. Good luck.<br />
* You may also never accept scientists as mission rewards or build any Labs unless the scientists comes from the satellite coverage bonus. <br />
===Conventional Only===<br />
* You may only use conventional weapons, armor, and/or 1st level SHIVs & MEC suits throughout the entire game. <br />
===Anachronism===<br />
* A lighter version of the above: only allow yourself to upgrade either weapons ''or'' armor.<br />
===Laser Squad===<br />
* You may only deploy Lasers weapons and/or Carapace/Skeleton armor on any combat mission.<br />
===Rise Of The Robots===<br />
* After getting the Foundry (which should be your 1st priority) you'll use as many SHIVs as possible instead of human soldiers. MEC Troopers may also be used.<br />
* Rock'em Sock'em Robots: Guns are for sissies. PUNCH. EVERYTHING.<br />
<br />
===Limited Squads===<br />
* Don't purchase Squad Size I & II and stick to the 4 soldier squad throughout the entire campaign. (now available as the '''Army Of Four''' achievement). <br />
<br />
===Gunslinger===<br />
* Only use pistols throughout the entire game <br />
** Heavies and several abilities become useless, together with Frag and Alien grenades.<br />
** On the plus side, you'll never have to reload your weapon or worry about ammo the entire game. <br />
** On the minus side, most aliens will now require at least the double of shots to eliminate them, even with a fully upgraded Plasma Pistol (and capturing and researching one should be a top priority).<br />
** The key abilities to have for Pistols are: Rapid Fire and Bring 'Em On (Assault) and Gunslinger and Double Tap (Sniper), which have both effects of allowing a 2nd shot and increasing the pistol's damage. The Foundry's Improved Pistol upgrades are also essential.<br />
** Headshot, Snap Shot and Disabling Shot are useless for Snipers, Rifle Suppression for Supports and Flush for Assaults. <br />
<br />
===Top Gun===<br />
* Only use Interceptors - don't build Firestorms<br />
** It may be impossible to shoot down the Overseer using only Interceptors, specially at the higher difficulty levels. <br />
* Don't research advanced Air to Air weapons and stick to Avalanches.<br />
<br />
==Classes/Abilities==<br />
===Trying Something New===<br />
Don't choose any of these abilities while leveling up soldiers:<br />
* Squad Sight (Sniper)<br />
* Field Medic (Support)<br />
* Rapid Fire (Assault) <br />
* HEAT Ammo (Heavy)<br />
===Voluntary Retirement===<br />
* Once a soldier reaches Colonel rank it is immediately retired and dismissed from service as a reward for his/her services fighting the alien invasion.<br />
* Or the same as above but dismiss all commissioned officers, which means everyone from Lieutenant upwards.<br />
* Or you could limit your soldiers to a single "tour of duty" comprising a set number of deployments. 10 is a challenge; 20 is close to a normal game.<br />
<br />
===Valkyrie Squad===<br />
* Dismiss all the ugly XY mutts still alive at the Barracks after the 1st mission and only use female soldiers during the entire game. <br />
===Single Class===<br />
* Use only one class of soldiers during a mission or the entire game. <br />
<br />
===V.I.P.s===<br />
*Very much like the "Ain't No Cavalry Comin'" achievement:<br />
*Near the start of the game select ten soldiers to be your Very Important People. (or V.I.P.s for short) <br />
*Change their armour or names to indicate that they are V.I.P.s. <br />
*You must bring at least one V.I.P. along to every mission. <br />
*If a V.I.P. is killed you may not replace him. <br />
*If all of your V.I.P.s are dead, you must completely abandon the current campaign. <br />
*In the event that all of your remaining V.I.P.s end up in the infirmary and awaiting recovery you may still play until they recover, after that you must again bring at least one V.I.P. to each mission.<br />
*You may also pull a V.I.P. out of a mission if things get hairy.<br />
<br />
===The Few===<br />
:''Never was so much owed by so many to so few.''<br />
* Complete your game without hiring any additional soldiers.<br />
* If all survivors fail the Psi test that's game over.<br />
*:''The Progeny campaign can solve this problem by allowing you to recruit 1-4 guaranteed psionics from missions''<br />
<br />
==Adding more players==<br />
This option makes the game more interesting, rather than harder, for now, there are more players, each one having a role in XCOM. Now, real-world events could effect XCOM, such as illness, marriage, jobs etc. etc. Teamwork, and cooperation are very much an important an important element now, because there is now more than one player.<br />
It could make the game harder because arguments and other problems could create a rift between players, and thus, divide XCOM.<br />
It could also make the game easier because one player only has to worry about one thing at once.<br />
<br />
*Multiple Players for the soldiers<br />
**Pretty self explanatory, one player for every soldier<br />
*One player as "Commander" and more players to control research and/or engineering.<br />
**This requires fewer players, one to control the army, one player on research, and one player handles engineering, they can now all agree on a budget for each other, such as dividing the alloys and weapon fragments for the research team and engineering, for example. You can even have another player to control interceptors and/or satellites and seeing that country requests are fulfilled.<br />
<br />
==Enemy Within==<br />
===Meld Related===<br />
*"'''Mechless'''" – Complete the game without using any MECs<br />
*"'''Geneless'''" – Complete the game without using any Gene Mods<br />
*"'''Meldless'''" – Complete the game without researching [[Meld Recombination (EU2012)|Meld Recombination]]<br />
<br />
[[Category: Enemy Unknown (2012)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=X-COM_Disruptor_Armor&diff=33807X-COM Disruptor Armor2011-06-10T12:34:35Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Apoc_xcom_armor.png|X-COM Disruptor Armor UFOPedia picture|right]]<br />
<br />
An X-COM/Alien hybrid armor suit which is available only after the necessary research has been completed. X-COM engineers must manufacture this suit in pieces. The armor is extremely light and provides approximately 33 to 50% more protection than [[Megapol Armor]]. It has exceptional high explosive defence, and is so effective that it could be considered to outclass even the benefits of flight afforded by [[Marsec Armor]]. This armor is usually available mid to late game depending on how far your research has progressed.<br />
<br />
== Statistics ==<br />
<center><br />
<table {{StdCenterTable}} width="30%"><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th>Facing</th><br />
<th>Protection</th><br />
<th>Weight</th><br />
<th>Market Value <sup>1</sup></th><br />
<th>Production Cost</th></tr><br />
<tr><td>Leg</td><td>65</td><td>2</td><td>2830</td><td>1200</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>Body</td><td>75</td><td>2</td><td>3480</td><td>1500</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>Right Arm</td><td>65</td><td>1</td><td>2830</td><td>1200</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>Left Arm</td><td>65</td><td>1</td><td>2830</td><td>1200</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>Helmet</td><td>75</td><td>1</td><td>3480</td><td>1500</td></tr><br />
</table><br />
</center><br />
<sup>1</sup>Market value is the initial value. It will vary during the game according to available quantities.<br />
<br />
* Total weight: '''7'''<br />
* Production Cost Total: '''6600'''<br />
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<br />
Trivia:<br />
<br />
Despite the Ufopedia picture, the armor does not, in fact, allow your Agent to use Kung Fu.<br />
<br />
{{Equipment (Apocalypse) Navbar}}<br />
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[[Category:Agents Armour (Apocalypse)]][[Category:Research (Apocalypse)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:X-COM_Disruptor_Armor&diff=33800Talk:X-COM Disruptor Armor2011-06-09T22:27:39Z<p>Jasonred: Major Correction Needed Please!</p>
<hr />
<div>Hey, the protection values here do NOT look correct.<br />
<br />
In fact, they are exactly the same as the Megapol Armor.</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Agents_Armor_(Apocalypse)&diff=33799Agents Armor (Apocalypse)2011-06-09T22:25:43Z<p>Jasonred: /* Mixing Armor */</p>
<hr />
<div>There are three types of armor available in Apocalypse. Two standard suits sold by [[Megapol]] and [[Marsec]] and one suit crafted by [[X-COM (Apocalypse)|X-COM]].<br />
<br />
There are five pieces for each set (helmet, chest, legs, left arm, right arm). Pieces can be mixed and matched. They do not need to be worn as a set, or even for complete coverage. Be warned that the mixture will not only look ugly, it will often *appear* to have holes which expose the agent underneath. Rest assured, this is only a cosmetic affect on your agent's paper doll image, the fact that there is a gap between the chest and leg pieces does not mean your agent will get shot in the stomach.<br />
<br />
==Armor Types==<br />
<br />
[[Image:Apoc_noarmor.png|Megapol Armor|right]]<br />
* When your soldiers are hired they will all arrive without any armor. Going to battle without any armor is usually a bad idea unless you are conducting [[Stun Raid]]s.<br />
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<br />
[[Image:Apoc_megapol_armor_equip.png|Megapol Armor|right]]<br />
*[[Megapol Armor]] - Armored suit which is available at the start of the new game. It is the heaviest and the cheapest of the three types, and provides medium protection. Manufactured by [[Megapol]].<br />
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<br />
[[Image:Apoc_marsec_armor_equip.png|Marsec Armor|right]]<br />
*[[Marsec Armor]] - Flying suit available in the market after week 1. It is the weakest armor but it is lighter in weight than Megapol Armor. Manufactured by [[Marsec]].<br />
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<br />
[[Image:Apoc_xcom_armor_equip.png|X-COM Disruptor Armor|right]]<br />
*[[X-COM Disruptor Armor]] - Advanced suit based on disruptor technology offering the best protection and the lightest weight. It is also the more expensive armor. Requires [[Research (Apocalypse)|research]] and [[Manufacturing (Apocalypse)|manufacture]] by [[X-COM (Apocalypse)|X-COM]].<br />
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<br />
==Mixing Armor==<br />
<br />
When you start the game, you have little choice in wearing any form of armor beyond the Megapol Armor. It is heavy, so weak soldiers will suffer from wearing it by not being able to run for very long. You have a good chance of winning the earliest combats without any armor, since the first fights will usually be against [[Anthropod]]s armed with [[Brainsucker Launcher]]s. However, it is a big mistake for an agent to continue going into combat without any armor, since the aliens will start packing [[Disruptor Gun]]s and explosives, and many aliens will have built in projectile weapons.<br />
<br />
[[Image:Apoc_armor_mixed1.png|left]]<br />
As soon as you obtain Marsec Armor, you can start mixing and matching the armor sets to suit your needs. Though the torso plates are equal in weight, the weight difference of the Marsec limbs allow you some flexibility in adjusting your agent's load to reduce their encumbrance levels as necessary. For example, a hybrid who has only just been hired will not be able to carry very much equipment around while wearing a full suit of Megapol Armor. Instead, consider swapping the arms, or legs out with Marsec pieces. It still offers protection, and is much lighter than a full set of Megapol armor. <br />
<br />
[[Image:Apoc_armor_mixed2.png|right]]The most popular and longest lasting setup is to wear the Marsec Torso plate and to wear the limb parts that provide the best protection. In the early game, Megapol limbs, in the late game X-COM Disruptor Armor limbs. To some this is considered the ultimate setup, providing moderate (but not perfect) protection along with absolute freedom of motion. <br />
<br />
If you prefer to use ground troops, or use a mixture of flight and ground troops, the groundpounders should wear the best protection that they can afford. Though there is little choice early in the game, they can get away with it in pretty much any setup. In the late game, a full suit of X-COM Disruptor Armor provides the best solid round defense and near immunity to high explosive attacks as long as the armor holds out. Plus its light, allowing these troops to run for a lot longer. This is the second ultimate armor setup, superior in defense but weakened by its lack of flight. <br />
<br />
[[Image:Apoc_armor_mixed3.png|left]]<br />
If defensive or mobility are not a concern to you at all, then you can get a bit more creative as the armor plates are great for playing dress up! Each part from each set has a unique colour to identify itself. Silver for Megapol, red for Marsec and Blue for Disruptor Armor. You can use it to mark teams or roles, such as team 1 gets to wear all Megapol helmets while team 2 wear Marsec helmets. Or perhaps heavy weapon specialists get to wear a white and red arm, or squads of [[Hybrids (Apocalypse)|hybrids]] equipped with [[Mind Bender]]s get to Marsec pants.<br />
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<br />
Note that while GRAPHICALLY, your unit may appear to have gaps in between armor pieces, these gaps are superficial and enemies will not be able to exploit these large holes in your defences. Most noticeable when equipping Marsec body with Megapol pants, or Megapol Helmet with Disrupter Body.<br />
<br />
== Mixing Armor with Technology ==<br />
<br />
There are many tools available to you that go well with your armor setups. They supplement your armor, no matter which setup you use. <br />
<br />
The simplest is probably the [[Megapol Smoke Grenade|Smoke Grenade]]. No matter how well protected you are, you don't really want to get hit by anything. Smoke lets you hide yourself on your approaches or your retreats. <br />
<br />
[[Personal Disruptor Shield]]s are the biggest boon to any agent for defense. With a fully juiced shield, an agent can go into battle without wearing armor, and will not even suffer from any fall damage should they fall or jump off a great height.In addition to that, they can defend against the dreaded [[Entropy Launcher|Entropy missiles]]. Though this is the lightest form of armor available, it is also the most reckless. Shields can not be relied on to last a prolonged sustained attack. Armor should be worn as a contingency measure should the shields overload and fizzle out. Any of the setups mentioned earlier will do fine with one, two, three or even four Disruptor shields. One and two shields are the customary number of shields to carry. Three if you really need to protect that agent. Four shields is too much, resulting in the agent not being able to fight back. This can be useful for agents designated as ammo carriers, or even (spare) shield bearers. <br />
In reality, shields use up energy ONE BY ONE... and when a shield unit's energy goes to zero, it is destroyed. So, overall, it is better to only carry one shield, and let the shield's energy recover over time. When you do use multiple shields, if you have taken any damage, drop the shield with the partial battery in a safe place or hand it to an agent (who is not actively participating in the combat) to let it recharge. This will put a fresh shield forward as the active shield while you wait for the other shield to recharge. <br />
<br />
[[Personal Cloaking Field]]s make it harder for the enemy to spot you at a distance. It's like carrying your own localized smoke screen that only works against the enemy. They mesh particularly well with flying units as they are generally the most exposed. In real-time combat, this means a reduction in firepower, but does allow you to take more careful shots from a range. <br />
<br />
Once you get [[Personal Teleporter]]s in the far portion of the late game, tactics change. The mobility advantage of the Marsec plate is negated as even ground troops will be able to scale tall places that they once could not. The teleporters still do not negate the Marsec plate's ability to levitate in mid air. It will let you teleport anywhere in the map in mid-air. Be warned that the teleporter requires some recharge time between jumps, a deficit not shared by the Marsec plate. Teleporters also render Disruptor Shields much more powerful, as you can simply teleport to a hidden corner of the map and let your shield recharge.<br />
<br />
==Typical Use==<br />
...to be continued<br />
<br />
quickie: partial wearing tactics, best mix'n'match, weights + protection, prices, typical avial. quantities, how each helemt filters gases (+ & - of it all).<br />
<br />
<br />
Note that removing the Marsec chestpiece during flight will cause the agent to plumet to the ground. Even while the game is paused. This allows sudden mid-air evasion of projectiles and missiles, assuming your reflexes are fast enough to reequip it before your agent hits the ground.<br />
<br />
Best mix'n'match early game is Marsec chestpiece with Megapol armor for others. Later on, either all X-COM armor, or possibly X-COM armor + Marsec Chest Piece. Really late game, it is viable to use ONLY the Marsec Chest Piece + Shields.<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
*[[Armor|Armour (UFO)]]<br />
*[[Armour (TFTD)]]<br />
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{{Equipment (Apocalypse) Navbar}}<br />
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[[Category:Agents Armour (Apocalypse)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Toxigun_vs_Devastator_Cannon&diff=33749Toxigun vs Devastator Cannon2011-06-04T18:32:21Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Comparison with the Devastator Cannon==<br />
Advantages for the Toxigun:<br />
#High rate of fire. A four-man squad dual-wielding these can unleash a fog of bullets. <br />
#*Note: When paired in real-time combat and firing on full-auto, the rate of fire is so great that the secondary weapon barely gets used. An agent that does not have maxed firing accuracy should consider switching to a slower but more accurate firing mode. You will still enjoy the rapid rate of fire, but with much improved accuracy. This is less important for agents with maxed accuracy where firing accuracy is the same across the different firing modes. <br />
#Small and one-handed. There is no loss in accuracy when dual-wielded.<br />
#Ignores enemy shields (without damaging them! You'll never need to manufacture shields.)<br />
#Does more damage, especially Toxin-C... and especially vs shielded opponents. Basically, 1 shot from Toxin-B will kill anything other than a Psimorph and Megaspawn. And 2-3 shots from Toxin C will kill a megaspawn. Combined with the high rate of fire, this means that a toxigun can theoratically kill 10 aliens in the time that a devastator takes to kill 1 alien. (depending on alien type)<br />
#*Note: When playing in real time, I once teleported behind a group of Megaspawns and Skeletoids and killed ALL of them with 2 agents, while they were in the process of turning around. They didn't have time to fire a single shot off. Toxin C is THAT powerful.<br />
#Hurts humans less than a machine gun... will pratically never penetrate Disruptor Armor. Thus, toxigun-equipped squads are your best choice for taking down Psimorphs and Micronoids. Even if the agents get mind controlled, they won't cause any serious damage to each other with a toxigun.<br />
#Hurts humans almost as much as a machine gun... you can bring this on raids against COS, and get as many free Personal Shields as you want! Note that toxin-A, toxin-B and toxin-C do around the same damage against humans.<br />
#Stray shots won't cause serious terrain deformation<br />
<br />
Disadvantages compared to the Devastator Cannon:<br />
#Requires ammo; costs money to fire, and bring plenty of extra clips for long missions.<br />
##Fortunately, you can manufacture the ammunition. No more worrying about Marsec or MegaPol running out!<br />
##Unfortunately, you must manufacture the ammunition. One small workshop working full-time should produce more ammo than you use once you've built up your stocks. UNLESS you are using this against human opponents, in which case there is not enough ammo to go around.<br />
#Less accurate<br />
#Useless at wall breaking<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
* [[Equipment Analysis (Apocalypse) | Equipment Anaylsis]] <br />
* [[Biological Warfare (Apocalypse) | Biological Warfare]]<br />
* [[Devastator Cannon]]<br />
<br />
[[Category: Apocalypse]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Strategies_for_Troops_(Apocalypse)&diff=33748Strategies for Troops (Apocalypse)2011-06-04T18:11:01Z<p>Jasonred: "Stealing" Personal Shields</p>
<hr />
<div>==Stun Squad==<br />
Early in the game, it can be a beneficial tactic to set apart a few agents as a 'stun squad'. This squad carries stun grapples and stun grenades and is tasked solely with capturing aliens alive. Because they'll be getting up close and personal with brainsuckers, it's a good idea to comprise your stun squad out of androids.<br />
<br />
Once you've got a few aliens stunned and down, keep your stun squad near them. Real-time makes this much easier, as you can set them for Aggressive and Auto-Fire and they'll automatically re-stun any aliens that try to stand up. Using a separate stun squad made up of three androids with twin stun grapples and grenades in a fresh game, this editor was able to capture alive an Anthropod, Spitter, Hyperworm, Multiworm, and Brainsucker all within two missions following acquisition of the Bio Transport Module.<br />
<br />
==Heavy Weapons and Real-Time Mode==<br />
Heavy weapons, such as the MarSec Heavy Launcher and the Dimension Missile launcher should be used with care in real-time mode. Personally, I recommend avoiding missile launchers entirely if possible, as one brainsucked agent in Disruptor armor with a dimension launcher can cause some serious pain later in the game's stages. Unfortunately, the game's AI doesn't seem to check friendly fire prior to using weapons, and you can easily end up destroying your entire squad if you don't keep heavy weapons reigned in. If you must use weapons like these, this editor recommends keeping all of your "heavy weapons experts" in the same squad, setting that squad to 'No Fire', and manually ordering them to fire when it's tactically sound to do so. An excellent example of this is when you're tasked with disabling parts of alien structures later in the game.<br />
<br />
==Marksmen, Sharpshooters and Snipers==<br />
No armed organization can go to war without its snipers, they provide accurate, long-range cover fire to your other squads and, if used correctly, serve as spotters for target acquisition to aid your other squads.<br />
The minute you start a game you should be on the look out for recruits with an accuracy skill above the rest of your troops. Try not to use Androids for this task as their accuracy is a fixed value and will never improve, Humans make the best long-term snipers. Make sure these are always participating in combat training to improve accuracy, among other things.<br />
Give these guys sniper rifles and keep them in a squad together. (don't forget to arm them with stun grenades and grapples) When possible buy the Marsec Body Armour Units as these have the built in jetpacks which allow your snipers to stay out of harms way and to take the tactical high ground quickly as well as provide dynamic support for your troops on the ground.<br />
Always place your snipers on high ground if possible, ideally 3-4 floors above your other troops. This gives them un-obstructed fields of fire and sight, something that your agents lives depend on. Snipers are there to support other squads and are best used in a ratio of 1:2 1 unit of snipers to 2 units of machine gunners. However, bear in mind snipers become less useful towards the later stages of the game but still has uses, especially in ufo recovery, set them to watch the door from the cliffs either side.<br />
<br />
==Early Game Strategy==<br />
===The Super Scout Strategy (real-time only)===<br />
It can be useful to use a lone [[Agents_(Apocalypse)#Androids|Android]] as a scout to uncover the map and find out where the enemy is. Use the unit with the highest [[Agents_Stats_(Apocalypse)#Speed|speed]] and [[Agents_Stats_(Apocalypse)#Strength|strength]] if possible so that it can carry a lot of gear and also get away from the enemy as needed. Android immunity to brainsuckers is particularly useful here should you wind unexpectedly at close quarters. Sending a lone soldier gives your two particular advantages: he is easier to micromanage and maneuver and you're only risking one soldier. This also brings a new dimension to the game, as you can fight a large portion of your battles in solo mode if you are careful.<br />
<br />
Armed with a [[Megapol Laser Sniper Gun|sniper rifle]], lawpistols, two [[Megapol Stun Grapple|Stun Grapples]] and a [[Motion_Scanner_(Apocalypse)|motion scanner]], you'll have a mixed bag of weaponry for engaging at any range. It's particularly fun to harass the enemy with sniper fire and grenades, and retreat if there are too many. You can also liberally sprinkle the battlefield with stun gas grenades to keep the enemy off-balance or when you want to capture aliens alive. Also, gas grenades are safer to use around civilians or your own squad members. This brings up the next fun part--leading the aliens into an ambush. Support your android with a small squad of three solider equipped with long and short range weaponry so that they'll be ready for any sort of encounter. In addition to providing extra firepower, your allies can keep an eye on any unconscious aliens should they wake up.<br />
<br />
As for what other troops to bring, it's up to you. I like to bring along a dedicated group of four snipers and four machine gunners to cover the flanks and establish a safe perimeter to retreat too if necessary. They can also act a reserve force if you get into trouble, though most of the time, they just sit at the edge of the map and take potshots at enemy which helps train their [[Agents_Stats_(Apocalypse)#Accuracy|accuracy]]. Let them waste [[Megapol Lawpistol|Lawpistol]] or [[Megapol Auto Cannon|Auto Cannon]] ammo if you find yourself burning too much machine gun ammo, which always seems to be scarce.<br />
<br />
It's also useful to note the lawpistols are surprisingly useful when paired with a sniper rifle for your mixed troops since they are light and compact and offer comparable firepower to the machine gun without the weight. They can also be [[Dual-wield|dual-wielded]] without accuracy penalties, which is another plus. Of course later on, they will be replaced by plasma guns, assuming there is enough ammo available.<br />
<br />
Lastly, your scout should have a motion sensor. It's also handy to give one to the leaders of all your other squads so they enemy will not get the jump on you. You don't *have* to give the sensor to the leader, but this really helps cut down on the micromanagement, which seems to the be most tiresome part of battles.<br />
<br />
==Late Game Strategy==<br />
<br />
==="Stealing" Personal Shields===<br />
<br />
Late Game, Personal Shields are rather ridiculously useful, since they will absorb almost any form of damage from enemies, and they absorb a LOT of it. Plus, they recharge over time. The only reason not to outfit everyone in your squad with multiple shields is that they take a lot of time to manufacture. So, the simplest way to get lots of them is to get them from the aliens OR on raids against humans. Only humanoid aliens can carry personal shields, and there's a limited amount of aliens compared to being able to raid the COS ad infinitum. So, the best way to get lots of shields is via raiding the COS.<br />
<br />
Now, when you raid the COS for shields, you want them to either drop their shields units or you want to do damage that bypasses the shields. Shooting normal projectiles to wear down the shields will result in the shield units being destroyed instead. Therefore, you want to bring along PSI troops to make the COS drop their items before you kill them. Simple enough, if you've trained up strong Psi troops.<br />
<br />
The other method of obtaining the shields is to use either Stun Grenades or Toxiguns. Stun Grenades will make them drop their items when they fall unconscious, but are a little harder to use. A simpler way to get shields from COS is to play in Turn Based mode and to shoot COS from point blank with your Toxigun on full auto. Please use Toxin A or basically your weakest Toxins, since human targets are unaffected by the poisons of the Toxigun and seem to only take damage equivalent to a machinegun shot from each shot fired regardless of Toxin type used. Most COS will die in about a dozen shots, so at minimum, you need around 15 TU once you're right next to them for the kill. But, you should only be doing this for COS targets that are carrying shields. Therefore, you should carry a Devastator/Disrupter in one hand and a toxigun in the other. Get to point blank range and fire a Disrupter shot into the target. If you hear a dull thunk and see the blue shield flash, switch to the toxigun and pepper him full of holes. If you hear a scream, kill him with the disrupter. Or you can just scan the enemy with the mind bender. Note also that enemies will seem to be able to only be carrying ONE of the following: Personal Shield, Teleporter, Personal Cloaking Field. So, if you see a fuzzy looking unit, just Disrupter him to death, he won't be carrying a personal shield.<br />
<br />
[[Category: Apocalypse]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Real-Time_vs_Turn-Based_(Apocalypse)&diff=33747Real-Time vs Turn-Based (Apocalypse)2011-06-04T17:48:30Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Overview==<br />
For each tactical mission, Apocalypse lets the player choose between [[Real-Time Combat (Apocalypse)|Real-Time]] '''(RT)''' and [[Turn-Based Combat (Apocalypse)|Turn-Based]] '''(TB)'''. Each mode provides a unique gameplay experience, added variety and replayability to the game. Although most players tend to favour one mode of combat over the other, I encourage experienced players to try an entire game using their weaker combat mode as a challenge and for a different gameplay experience.<br />
<br />
==Game play experience==<br />
In real-time mode, all humans and aliens move simultaneously. The player can issue commands at any time and the action will play out continuously in 'real time'. The battles can be frantic, with a lot of stuff going on at once, but the player can still pause or slow the game at any time to get a finer degree of control.<br />
<br />
Turn-based mode is closer to the traditional X-COM style. Teams (eg. X-COM vs the aliens) take it in turns to move their units, each being limited to some basic automatic reactions when it is not their turn. These battles have a greater emphasis on careful unit placement and anticipation of enemy moves.<br />
<br />
==Tactical advantages==<br />
Since there are differences in the game mechanics of the two modes, it is important to develop tactics for each mode. Here are a couple of examples of advantages that the player has in one mode but not the other.<br />
<br />
===Real-time mode===<br />
* Ability to respond to a new threat as soon as it appears - for example if you see a [[Popper]] in the distance you will have time to reposition/reorder your units to best deal with the threat. In turn-based mode the Popper may explode on the same turn that you first see it.<br />
* Dual wielding - in real-time mode, holding a weapon in each hand allows both weapons to fire simultaneously. This effectively doubles your firing rate (at the cost of some accuracy). In turn-based mode there is no firing rate advantage to dual wielding.<br />
* Ability to dodge missiles, projectiles, and explosions in mid-animation. Easiest to do this with Teleporters.<br />
* Teleporters are instantaneous. This would be equivalent to not costing any TUs in TB. Many other actions that cost TU in TB are instantaneuous in RT when the game is paused, such as moving equipment around, priming grenades, falling from any height...<br />
<br />
===Turn-based mode===<br />
* Charge attack - you can run from some distance to get directly adjacent to your enemies and kill them at point-blank range without them being able to react in any meaningful way. This works even better when launching ambushes around corners or other blind spots. Teleporters are also quite deadly for this purpose.<br />
* Later in the game, you can obtain Personal Shields from Cult of Sirius raids by using the above method combined with Toxigun A ammo. You will require many many shots to kill a COS member with this, so trying to farm COS in this way becomes unfeasible in RT.<br />
* Tag team attack - you can have several agents take turns at firing through a particular choke point (a doorway, for example). The advantage of this is that it effectively means all of your agents can fire through the choke point at once, whereas in real-time mode only one agent can at a time.<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
* [[Battlescape Overview (Apocalypse)|Battlescape Overview]]<br />
* [[Turn-Based Combat (Apocalypse)|Turn-Based Combat]]<br />
* [[Real-Time Combat (Apocalypse)|Real-Time Combat]] <br />
<br />
[[Category: Apocalypse]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Sonic_Cannon_vs_Displacer/Sonic&diff=33651Sonic Cannon vs Displacer/Sonic2011-05-25T07:44:49Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>Sonic Cannon:<br />
<br />
Veteran soldiers will have higher accuracy (When soldier accuracy is 64 or higher), and fit through narrow spaces.<br />
<br />
Displacer/ Sonic :<br />
<br />
Can fire 3 times and still have 10 TU to spare! (and have same power as Sonic Cannons in TFTD)<br />
Have MUCH better side armor and better rear armor than soldiers.<br />
Higher Health<br />
Are repaired between missions<br />
Can fly on land missions!<br />
99 Ammo (free refills) vs 10 Ammo<br />
Cannot be zombified... have a decent chance of surviving an ambush by a Tentaculat.<br />
<br />
<br />
Huge change between Heavy Plasma vs Hovertank/Plasma in Xcom!<br />
<br />
[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 05:03, 7 April 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
Soldiers gain benefits for killing, tanks don't. Soldiers can swap weapons, use devices, tanks have only one way to operate. Zagorszk, 29-07-2009<br />
<br />
<br />
:Tanks also take up 4 spaces. In a way, it's bad as it means you are denying yourself 300% TU bars worth of weapon operation, and that tanks take extra damage from area effect damage (mind you, the under-armour for displacers are unparalleled). The loss in space is a problem for players that like to use large teams. For players that use small teams, the loss in soldier spaces is meaningless. <br />
<br />
:There is also one thing I want to check when I get a chance, and that is the (TFTD only) tank immunity to reaction fire. It's quite unpredictable, and I've only really seen it in action with the two basic coelacanths. Conflicting reports about them and the three advanced SWS make me wonder if there are some conditions to this. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:49, 30 July 2009 (EDT) <br />
<br />
<br />
A Displacer/Sonic is worth far more then 4 Sonic Cannon soldiers. First off is has greater survivability, unless you equip each man with Magnetic Ion Armor. In that case the cost of the troops goes way up. The Displacer will always be a better scout because of its speed (higher TUs). As a scout you can still have your men act as snipers and gain experience. The best part is that the Displacer/Sonic is immune to Tentaculat attacks. Even having a single human scout turned into a zombie can be the start of a very bad day. [[User:M52nickerson|M52nickerson]] 10:42, 20 September 2010 (EDT) <br />
<br />
: Ah, but, NKF, if you're talking about TU bars and firepower, you gotta factor in that soldiers might have to turn 45 degrees or more. Which means that soldier only has enough TUs for one shot per turn. From that perspective, it's quite possible that 4 soldiers would only be able to fire 4 shots per turn, while the tank gets to fire 3 shots. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 14:05, 24 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: I don't really think it matters if your aquanauts have to turn as they're practically restricted to 1 shot a turn anyhow with the Sonic Cannon for the most part. But that's it. 400% worth of TU bars with 4 soldiers, 4 possible shots, 4 independent targets worth of scouts and 'shields', etc. That said, the Displacer is actually still better value. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 15:51, 24 May 2011 (EDT) <br />
<br />
::: Actually, the way I play, I tend to snipe from across the map for the most part, so I quite often get to fire 2 snap shots from a soldier. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 03:44, 25 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
<br />
[[Weapon Analysis]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Sonic_Cannon_vs_Displacer/Sonic&diff=33648Sonic Cannon vs Displacer/Sonic2011-05-24T19:04:27Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>Sonic Cannon:<br />
<br />
Veteran soldiers will have higher accuracy (When soldier accuracy is 64 or higher), and fit through narrow spaces.<br />
<br />
Displacer/ Sonic :<br />
<br />
Can fire 3 times and still have 10 TU to spare! (and have same power as Sonic Cannons in TFTD)<br />
Have MUCH better side armor and better rear armor than soldiers.<br />
Higher Health<br />
Are repaired between missions<br />
Can fly on land missions!<br />
99 Ammo (free refills) vs 10 Ammo<br />
Cannot be zombified... have a decent chance of surviving an ambush by a Tentaculat.<br />
<br />
<br />
Huge change between Heavy Plasma vs Hovertank/Plasma in Xcom!<br />
<br />
[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 05:03, 7 April 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
Soldiers gain benefits for killing, tanks don't. Soldiers can swap weapons, use devices, tanks have only one way to operate. Zagorszk, 29-07-2009<br />
<br />
<br />
:Tanks also take up 4 spaces. In a way, it's bad as it means you are denying yourself 300% TU bars worth of weapon operation, and that tanks take extra damage from area effect damage (mind you, the under-armour for displacers are unparalleled). The loss in space is a problem for players that like to use large teams. For players that use small teams, the loss in soldier spaces is meaningless. <br />
<br />
:There is also one thing I want to check when I get a chance, and that is the (TFTD only) tank immunity to reaction fire. It's quite unpredictable, and I've only really seen it in action with the two basic coelacanths. Conflicting reports about them and the three advanced SWS make me wonder if there are some conditions to this. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:49, 30 July 2009 (EDT) <br />
<br />
<br />
A Displacer/Sonic is worth far more then 4 Sonic Cannon soldiers. First off is has greater survivability, unless you equip each man with Magnetic Ion Armor. In that case the cost of the troops goes way up. The Displacer will always be a better scout because of its speed (higher TUs). As a scout you can still have your men act as snipers and gain experience. The best part is that the Displacer/Sonic is immune to Tentaculat attacks. Even having a single human scout turned into a zombie can be the start of a very bad day. [[User:M52nickerson|M52nickerson]] 10:42, 20 September 2010 (EDT) <br />
<br />
: Ah, but, NKF, if you're talking about TU bars and firepower, you gotta factor in that soldiers might have to turn 45 degrees or more. Which means that soldier only has enough TUs for one shot per turn. From that perspective, it's quite possible that 4 soldiers would only be able to fire 4 shots per turn, while the tank gets to fire 3 shots. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 14:05, 24 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
<br />
[[Weapon Analysis]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Psionics_(Apocalypse)&diff=33647Psionics (Apocalypse)2011-05-24T18:41:32Z<p>Jasonred: Undo revision 33641 by Jasonred (talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>Psionics in Apocalypse makes use of an agent's latent psionic powers to attack an enemy with their mind. This is aided through the [[Mind Bender]], a device similar to [[Psi-Amp]]s of old that were used by the earlier generation of X-COM combatants. <br />
<br />
Psionic powers in the Apocalypse era however are reduced from what they once were during the first two alien invasions. While still powerful in the hands of a powerful human/sectoid hybrid, is field of psionics are no longer the divine balance breaking force that it once was. <br />
<br />
= Psi Stats =<br />
<br />
An agent will have three separate [[Agents Stats (Apocalypse)|stats]] that govern their psi ability. Psi Defence, Psi Energy and Psi Skill. <br />
<br />
;Defense: Controls how well the agent will be able to resist attack. <br />
;Skill: The Aptitude of the agent at performing a successful attack. <br />
;Energy: How much psi energy your agent can store. Think of it as the currency for psi attacks. This recharges in small amounts during combat. <br />
<br />
== Training Psi Stats ==<br />
<br />
Psi is a long term investment. You will not be able to get brand new agents to perform successful psi attacks right away. With time and patience, their psi abilities will become much more significant. <br />
<br />
Psi stat training is done primarily performed through the [[Psi-Gym (Apocalypse)|Psi-Gym]]. Every day at the stroke of midnight, if an agent has been assigned to the lab and is at full health (i.e. the opposite of the [[Medical Bay (Apocalypse)|med-lab]] requirement), the agent will get a chance at gaining some minor increases to his or her psi stats. <br />
<br />
Psi stats for very agent will only be able to improve three times the base amount. For example, if an agent starts with 25 Energy, the agent will max at 75 energy. <br />
<br />
== Psi Stat Progression by Race ==<br />
<br />
;[[Humans (Apocalypse)|Humans]] : Humans have very low psi stats, therefore they make the weakest psionic users as their maximum psi stats will be very low. They are still able to obtain a small success rate at probing enemy targets. <br />
<br />
;[[Hybrids (Apocalypse)|Hybrids]]: The mutants will be the core of your psi users as they get the highest base psi stat rolls. However they are weaker than humans, thus have to invest some time in the combat gym as well, so their overall training time tends to be double that of their human counterparts if you wish to keep their strength stat up, which can only be raised through physical training and not actual combat. <br />
<br />
;[[Androids (Apocalypse)|Androids]]: Androids cannot use psi because their psi skill and energy start at 0 and cannot improve beyond that. Their psi defense however is set to 100. This is redundant because enemy psi users ignore androids as psi targets. This makes them effective at combating enemy psi units.<br />
<br />
= Psi Attack Requirements/Limitations =<br />
<br />
In order to perform a psionic attack, the user must: <br />
<br />
# Have a [[Mind Bender]] <br />
# Be able to see the target <br />
# Have enough energy to perform the attack. <br />
# Be able to maintain the attack (RT Combat only) <br />
<br />
Obviously, to perform a successful attack, the psi users must have a strong enough skill level to combat the target's psi defence. <br />
<br />
== Potential Psi Targets == <br />
<br />
Psi powers, though powerful, are limited to a small selection of targets due to the unusually high levels of psi defense most enemies exhibit. <br />
<br />
As such, Psi can only be used reliably on humanoid tool-weilding enemies. Namely, [[Anthropod (Apocalypse)|Anthropod]]s, [[Skeletoid (Apocalypse)|Skeletoid]]s and all humanoid enemy guards. <br />
<br />
Every other alien will have such high resistance that only probes will be reliable. All other attacks will tend to have a very low chance of success (2% being the most common). <br />
<br />
Although you are severely limited to the types of enemies you can control, these are also the most significant enemies to control due to the items that they carry. They are also the most common targets.<br />
<br />
= Mind Bender Quick Overview =<br />
<br />
The mind bender is akin to a sorceror's magic staff. A device to channel the user's energy. <br />
<br />
The mind bender provides several functions. The first is a display of the agent's psi stats. These are the same that you can view in the inventory screen, although you can see any updates to the stats as they happen. The data may not be instantaneous, so give the game a few seconds to update the screen. In Real Time Combat, bringing up this panel will also break any current active attack you may have on at the moment. <br />
<br />
The primary use of the mind bender is to perform four separate psi attacks on the enemy. Probe, Panic, Stun and Mind Control. <br />
<br />
;Probe: The easiest function, and only gives you access to the target's statistics in the inventory screen. <br />
<br />
; Panic: Causes the target to lose morale. One of the easier attacks with minimal drain in real-time. Once the target's morale is too low, it will start to panic. <br />
<br />
;Stun: Inflicts stun damage on an enemy target. If the stun threshold exceeds the unit's health, it will be knocked out. Stun damage is the same as the type caused by the stun grenade or stun grapple. <br />
<br />
;Mind Control: Takes full control over the target. The hardest and most expensive attack to perform. <br />
<br />
For detailed information on each attack, see the [[Mind Bender]] article. <br />
<br />
= Turn Based vs. Real Time Psi =<br />
<br />
All of the mind bender attacks will differ based on the game mode. <br />
<br />
In Turn Based, each attack is a one-use attack and the effect takes effect right away. This is not too dissimilar to how it previously functioned, only you still require line of sight. <br />
<br />
In Real Time, once an attack is successful, it must be maintained by spending psi energy in order for the attack to keep the attack live. <br />
<br />
== Real Time: Maintenance Costs == <br />
<br />
As long as you are attacking the target, your psi energy will be consumed at a rate depending on the attack mode selected. The harder the mode, the more energy will be drained. <br />
<br />
Probe and mind control are instantaneous, but require energy to maintain for as long as you want the effect to last. <br />
<br />
Stun and Panic do not affect the target immediately, but slowly build up the longer the link is maintained. Of the four attacks, these two must be maintained long enough for their effects to be of any use. <br />
<br />
Note that maintenance costs only take effect as the clock is ticking, not while the game is paused. You can avoid paying maintenance costs for probe and mind control by using them while the game is paused, and then breaking the link before restarting the clock. <br />
<br />
<br />
== Real Time: Breaking the Psi Link == <br />
<br />
An active attack will be broken when:<br />
<br />
* The target goes beyond the user's line of sight<br />
* The user runs out of psi energy<br />
* The user manually breaks the link by selecting a new attack on the mind bender. <br />
<br />
At this time, some testing will be needed to verify:<br />
* When the target breaks contact if it falls out of the psi user's line of sight. * If the link is broken when another user succeeds in performing an attack on a unit that's already being attacked. <br />
<br />
== Real Time: Effect on Neutral Guards ==<br />
<br />
If you were to perform a non-violent raid on a non-hostile organization, you can safely practice with your mind bender to your heart's content on the guards with no repercussions. <br />
<br />
If the guards are hurt in any way while under mind control, this will be viewed as a violent action towards the organization and may cause the guards to turn hostile on your agents. <br />
<br />
If the guard gets hurt after you've broken the mind control link, then the action will not be blamed on your troops. Even if the guard is killed or sustains fatal wounds and dies from them, your relations with the building owners will not be affected. The guards must see it as self inflicted damage. <br />
<br />
Note that that while this condition was tested only on whether guards will turn hostile towards you, no visible changes in relation standing or requests for compensation were observed afterwards.<br />
<br />
= Tips = <br />
<br />
* Hire some hybrids from the very start and have them studying in the Psy Gym right from the word go. Either keep them out of direct combat, or make sure they take it easy during the battle. They may not seem like much now, but they will improve.<br />
* If you hire lots of hybrids, consider placing half of them in [[Training Area (Apocalypse)|combat training]] and the other half in the psy gym. Swap them over from time to time. <br />
* Multiple psi users should be employed to combat the low amount of psi energy a single agent will have. Let one attack while the other rests. <br />
* Don't over-use your psi in a single burst. On the otherh and, try not to let your psi-energy go to waste by having an energy bar at 100% at all times. <br />
* Mind Control and Probe in Real Time should be used while the game is paused. With Mind Control, do as much as you can in the enemy's inventory such as set off explosives (remember to activate them by moving them after setting the timer) and then breaking the mind control.<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
<br />
* [[Training (Apocalypse)|Training]] <br />
* [[Mind Bender]] <br />
* [[Psi-Gym (Apocalypse)|Psy-Gym]] <br />
<br />
[[Category: Apocalypse]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Alien_Overview_(Apocalypse)&diff=33646Alien Overview (Apocalypse)2011-05-24T18:40:38Z<p>Jasonred: Undo revision 33644 by Jasonred (talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>This section gives a brief description of the various aliens in X-COM Apocalypse and groups them by threat levels towards ''human'' agents, with the exception of the Overspawn as it is a Cityscape-only enemy. <br />
<br />
'''Note:''' <br />
<br />
As different players will have varying comfort levels fighting against the different aliens based on their own experience levels, these groupings are not final and should be treated as estimates. <br />
<br />
= Low threat =<br />
<br />
== [[Multiworm Egg (Apocalypse) | Multiworm Egg]]==<br />
The multiworm egg is the first phase of the multiworm life cycle. It is armed with a weak short ranged spit attack but is otherwise harmless if left alone. They do not require any direct intervention and are recovered automatically at the end of the mission. <br />
<br />
== [[Chrysalis (Apocalypse)| Chrysalis]] == <br />
The chrysalis is the final stage of the multiworm life cycle, and serves as a universal egg of sorts that turns into any one of the aliens you will face. It is completely defenceless. Serving as ideal targets for shooting practice, they pose no threat and are automatically recovered the end of a mission.<br />
<br />
== [[Spitter (Apocalypse) | Spitter]]== <br />
Spitters are pink humanoids without a head. They spit acid at enemy targets from the funnel at the end of their neck. <br />
<br />
Spitters are relatively easy enemies to fight, but their spit attack can be very dangerous if underestimated. They generally do their worst when fighting in groups or when they are lucky enough to score several critical hits in a short amount of time.<br />
<br />
=Medium threat =<br />
<br />
== [[Brainsucker (Apocalypse) | Brainsucker]] == <br />
Brainsuckers are small basketball-like aliens with limbs. They function purely to take over the bodies of X-COM agents. They are small and fast and can leap great heights. They are transported in an inert state in small pods and can be launched from [[Brainsucker_Launcher|Brainsucker Launchers]]. <br />
<br />
They have a very short lifespan that only lasts long enough for a single attack after they have hatched from their pods. <br />
<br />
With their speed and ability to jump great heights, they pose a fairly dangerous threat to agents that are not vigilant. <br />
<br />
Brainsuckers do not actively target X-COM Android agents. This effectively makes them immune unless the Brainsucker manages to land on an android by accident. <br />
<br />
== [[Psimorph (Apocalypse)| Psimorph]]== <br />
Primorphs are a psionic being that resemble a collection of large green tentacles as large as a Megaspawn. They hover slowly through the air. They only attack with psionics. <br />
<br />
By itself a psimorph is a low threat and makes for a very easy target due to its large size. Its psionic attacks however can disrupt agents weak in psionics and even turn them against their companions. Like X-COM agents, they do suffer from the same limitations of having a psi-energy bar. They can easily be overwhelmed by many agents. <br />
<br />
Against androids and skilled hybrids, the psimorph pose a non-existent threat. <br />
<br />
==[[Micronoid Aggregate (Apocalypse) |Micronoid Aggregate]]== <br />
The masterminds behind the alien threat. They are a minute species of psionic alien that, when grouped toegher, resemble a puddle of slime. Their only means of attack is through powerful psionic attacks. <br />
<br />
Though more powerful than the Psimoprh, their physiques are weak. They make up for this with larger numbers (of puddles). <br />
<br />
They can only be found in the [[Sleeping Chamber]] and the Type 7 [[Alien Bomber (Apocalypse) | Alien Bomber]]. <br />
<br />
They share all the limitations of the Psimorph and are no threats to androids. <br />
<br />
== [[Hyperworm (Apocalypse)|Hyperworm]]== <br />
The hyperworm is the small offspring of a deceased Multiworm. When the Multiworm dies, four Hyperworms spring from its body to deal one last blow to the multiworm's attackers. <br />
<br />
The individual Hyperworms are relatively weak and have a short ranged bite attack that do minor to moderate damage. Their strength comes from their speed an numbers. <br />
<br />
Setting fire to the Multiworm just before it dies or use of high explosives are easy methods for quickly handling hyperworm swarms. <br />
<br />
=High threat=<br />
<br />
== [[Multiworm (Apocalypse)|Multiworm]]== <br />
<br />
The Multiworm is the mature stage of the multiworm life cycle. It is a very tough large worm that is able to launch a powerful and rapid spit attack against nearby agents. The large amount of health that the Multiworm has allows it withstand a fair beating before it goes down. On its death it releases four Hyperworms that attempt to swarm towards the nearest attacker. This makes melee or short ranged combat against them a risky practice.<br />
<br />
Multiworms are a very highly valued [[Biochemistry]] project. <br />
<br />
== [[Popper (Apocalypse) | Popper]]== <br />
<br />
The Popper is a bomb with legs. The Popper is very agile and can move at an amazing pace across the battlefield. Its body heat causes it to leave wafts of smoke wherever it runs. Though they have no ranged attacks, they will explode when they are next to an X-COM agent.<br />
<br />
The only way to defend against these enemies is to constantly be on alert, or to be flying well out of its reach. In Real Time combat, actively scanning the area with a [[Motion Scanner (Apocalypse) | motion scanner]] for rapid moving blips can save many lives. <br />
<br />
Poppers will also explode when killed by solid round projectiles, explosions or from blood loss. They will not explode from energy weapons or gas. <br />
<br />
<br />
== [[Anthropod]] == <br />
The Anthropod is the basic foot soldier of the alien invasion. They look like blue veiny blobs with elephantine limbs. Despite their almost comical appearance, their ability to make use of a variety of armaments and tools makes them very deadly foes. <br />
<br />
The Anthropod is one of the two aliens available to the aliens that are capable of wielding tools. <br />
<br />
<br />
== [[Skeletoid]] == <br />
The skeletoid is boney yellow a patchwork man. They are identical to the Anthropod in threat and function with the addition of a hovering ability. This means that they are able to attack from the air and reach places that Anthropods can not go to. <br />
<br />
== [[Queenspawn]] == <br />
The ultimate form and mother of the Multiworms. It is the largest creature that you will face. It is immobile but makes up for this by having an incredibly powerful and fast firing ranged attack that can easily best even the most heavily protected agent. <br />
<br />
Although the Queenspawn can only attack directly in front of it and it is immobile, the major portion of its perceived difficulty stems from its environment. It is placed on a dais that is surrounded by a solid organic alien building wall on one side, and laser curtains are provided on each of its sides to protect its vulnerable sides. This means that it can only be approached from the front. Four re-enforcement teleport pads beyond the dias provide additional troops for it. <br />
<br />
Capture of this alien allows for progression of the [[Alien Gas (Apocalypse) | Alien Gas]] toxin weapon research. <br />
<br />
The queen can only be found in the [[Spawning Chamber]]. <br />
<br />
== [[Megaspawn (Apocalypse) | Megaspawn]] == <br />
<br />
The Megaspawn is an alien built like a tank that is armed with a built-in Disruptor beam that is as powerful as a Devastator cannon and a seemingly endless supply of dimension missiles. One Megaspawn can easily lay waste to an unprepared team of agents. <br />
<br />
They are not without their faults, and their size is one of them. Their larger size makes them easier targets to hit. While it is not always the case, they appear to have some reluctance to fight agents that are right up next to them and will turn and run.<br />
<br />
[[Category: Apocalypse]]<br />
[[Category: Aliens (Apocalypse)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Brainsucker_(Apocalypse)&diff=33645Brainsucker (Apocalypse)2011-05-24T18:40:12Z<p>Jasonred: Undo revision 33643 by Jasonred (talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Brainsucker_(Alive).jpg|thumb|right|The Brainsucker UFOpaedia entry, if captured alive.]]<br />
[[Image:Brainsucker_Autopsy.jpg|thumb|right|The Brainsucker Autopsy report from the UFOpaedia.]]<br />
The Brainsucker will often be the first alien creature you ever see in combat. They resemble a small orange ball with eyes, thin appendages and a large proboscis. They are very weak but make up for this by having great speed and can jump very high. They have no ranged weaponry, but have a lethal melee attack. Their primary means of attack is the element of surprise and carelessness. <br />
<br />
Their sole purpose in combat is to jump onto the head of an X-COM agent, shove it's trunk down the agent's throat and inject [[Micronoid Aggregate (Apocalypse) | Micronoid Aggregates]] directly into the host and seize control of the brain permanently. The Brainsucker are short lived creatures and will promptly die immediately after this procedure. There is a small chance that this attempt may fail. <br />
<br />
Be aware that [[Personal Disruptor Shield|shields]], the agent's psionic defense and helmet type do not play a part in defending against a Brainsucker attack. Even Android agents are not exempt from this, but still maintain a form of Brainsucker immunity. Brainsuckers do not actively launch attacks on Androids. <br />
<br />
Brainsuckers are carried into combat by way of [[Brainsucker Pod|Brainsucker Pods]] and are launched from a [[Brainsucker Launcher]]. The pods will only hatch if left on the ground. If agents quickly scoop up and hold onto the pod, or even store the pod in their backpack, the pods will remain inert. This is a most effective strategy for agents to control the propagation of new brainsuckers. They can later be manually thrown out and dispatched at the agents' leisure. Recovering the pods also allow access to all bio-chemistry research topics on the Brainsucker. <br />
<br />
'''''Official Entry (Captured Alive):''''' "The life span of a Brainsucker is very short, eight hours at most. It has no reproduction or feeding system. Instead it attacks human victims by grasping the head with its claws and inserting its proboscis into the victims throat. The Brainsucker dies immediately after a successful attack, but our tests reveal that the victim is subsequently transformed into an Alien controlled entity. We will not understand the mechanism which causes this until we have completed studies on the full Alien life cycle."<br />
<br />
'''''Official Entry (Autopsy):''''' "This life form appears to have a simple structure with no distinguishable organs apart from an efficient heart and cardiovascular system. There appears to be no means of ingesting food or separate brain structure rendering it immune from Psionic influence. It seems that this creature has little purpose in life except that it is known to attack humans and seems to be designed to do only that. Its complex organic structure may be useful for developing toxins to counter any threat to our race."<br />
<br />
== Notes ==<br />
* An agent in mid-suck cannot access his or her inventory directly. To get around this, access the inventory of another agent and click on the victims portrait to access the inventory screen. <br />
* The best way to defend against a Brainsucker in mid-suck is to have all nearby companions shoot the brainsucker off ''post-haste''! <br />
** Another option when wearing a full suit of armor is to get the victim to use a light explosive. Either by way of an AP grenade or firing an HE Autocannon shell at the adjacent tile or wall. <br />
* Brainsuckers always stun themselves silly when they attempt to jump onto an agent that is lying prone. This works in both RT and TB combat. <br />
* Brainsuckers may have trouble jumping on agents in low doorways. <br />
* On maps with very high elevations, flying can put agents out of the reach of brainsuckers. They can still jump fairly high, so fly as high as the map will allow. <br />
* As mentioned in the description, brainsucker pods will not hatch if held.<br />
**The battlescape trick of combining clips can be used to create a composite pod out of many for easier storage in case your agent does not have enough room. <br />
***Note that as with the clip combination trick, you will still be carrying the same amount of weight as the number of pods you've combined. They only take up less inventory space. <br />
***Empty (0 ammo) pods won't hatch, but to be safe you can make them vanish by loading them into a brainsucker launcher. <br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
* [[Aliens (Apocalypse)|Aliens]]<br />
* [[Alien Life Forms (Apocalypse)|Alien Life Forms]]<br />
* [[Brainsucker Launcher]]<br />
** [[Brainsucker Pod]]<br />
<br />
[[Category: Apocalypse]]<br />
[[Category: Aliens (Apocalypse)]]<br />
[[Category: Research (Apocalypse)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Alien_Overview_(Apocalypse)&diff=33644Alien Overview (Apocalypse)2011-05-24T18:30:00Z<p>Jasonred: /* Brainsucker */</p>
<hr />
<div>This section gives a brief description of the various aliens in X-COM Apocalypse and groups them by threat levels towards ''human'' agents, with the exception of the Overspawn as it is a Cityscape-only enemy. <br />
<br />
'''Note:''' <br />
<br />
As different players will have varying comfort levels fighting against the different aliens based on their own experience levels, these groupings are not final and should be treated as estimates. <br />
<br />
= Low threat =<br />
<br />
== [[Multiworm Egg (Apocalypse) | Multiworm Egg]]==<br />
The multiworm egg is the first phase of the multiworm life cycle. It is armed with a weak short ranged spit attack but is otherwise harmless if left alone. They do not require any direct intervention and are recovered automatically at the end of the mission. <br />
<br />
== [[Chrysalis (Apocalypse)| Chrysalis]] == <br />
The chrysalis is the final stage of the multiworm life cycle, and serves as a universal egg of sorts that turns into any one of the aliens you will face. It is completely defenceless. Serving as ideal targets for shooting practice, they pose no threat and are automatically recovered the end of a mission.<br />
<br />
== [[Spitter (Apocalypse) | Spitter]]== <br />
Spitters are pink humanoids without a head. They spit acid at enemy targets from the funnel at the end of their neck. <br />
<br />
Spitters are relatively easy enemies to fight, but their spit attack can be very dangerous if underestimated. They generally do their worst when fighting in groups or when they are lucky enough to score several critical hits in a short amount of time.<br />
<br />
=Medium threat =<br />
<br />
== [[Brainsucker (Apocalypse) | Brainsucker]] == <br />
Brainsuckers are small basketball-like aliens with limbs. They function purely to take over the bodies of X-COM agents. They are small and fast and can leap great heights. They are transported in an inert state in small pods and can be launched from [[Brainsucker_Launcher|Brainsucker Launchers]]. <br />
<br />
They have a very short lifespan that only lasts long enough for a single attack after they have hatched from their pods. <br />
<br />
With their speed and ability to jump great heights, they pose a fairly dangerous threat to agents that are not vigilant. <br />
<br />
Brainsuckers will aim at the target with the weakest Psi Defence. This means they usually avoid X-COM Android agents. If you only sent in 1 android into battle, the brainsucker will jump on but will fail.<br />
<br />
== [[Psimorph (Apocalypse)| Psimorph]]== <br />
Primorphs are a psionic being that resemble a collection of large green tentacles as large as a Megaspawn. They hover slowly through the air. They only attack with psionics. <br />
<br />
By itself a psimorph is a low threat and makes for a very easy target due to its large size. Its psionic attacks however can disrupt agents weak in psionics and even turn them against their companions. Like X-COM agents, they do suffer from the same limitations of having a psi-energy bar. They can easily be overwhelmed by many agents. <br />
<br />
Against androids and skilled hybrids, the psimorph pose a non-existent threat. <br />
<br />
==[[Micronoid Aggregate (Apocalypse) |Micronoid Aggregate]]== <br />
The masterminds behind the alien threat. They are a minute species of psionic alien that, when grouped toegher, resemble a puddle of slime. Their only means of attack is through powerful psionic attacks. <br />
<br />
Though more powerful than the Psimoprh, their physiques are weak. They make up for this with larger numbers (of puddles). <br />
<br />
They can only be found in the [[Sleeping Chamber]] and the Type 7 [[Alien Bomber (Apocalypse) | Alien Bomber]]. <br />
<br />
They share all the limitations of the Psimorph and are no threats to androids. <br />
<br />
== [[Hyperworm (Apocalypse)|Hyperworm]]== <br />
The hyperworm is the small offspring of a deceased Multiworm. When the Multiworm dies, four Hyperworms spring from its body to deal one last blow to the multiworm's attackers. <br />
<br />
The individual Hyperworms are relatively weak and have a short ranged bite attack that do minor to moderate damage. Their strength comes from their speed an numbers. <br />
<br />
Setting fire to the Multiworm just before it dies or use of high explosives are easy methods for quickly handling hyperworm swarms. <br />
<br />
=High threat=<br />
<br />
== [[Multiworm (Apocalypse)|Multiworm]]== <br />
<br />
The Multiworm is the mature stage of the multiworm life cycle. It is a very tough large worm that is able to launch a powerful and rapid spit attack against nearby agents. The large amount of health that the Multiworm has allows it withstand a fair beating before it goes down. On its death it releases four Hyperworms that attempt to swarm towards the nearest attacker. This makes melee or short ranged combat against them a risky practice.<br />
<br />
Multiworms are a very highly valued [[Biochemistry]] project. <br />
<br />
== [[Popper (Apocalypse) | Popper]]== <br />
<br />
The Popper is a bomb with legs. The Popper is very agile and can move at an amazing pace across the battlefield. Its body heat causes it to leave wafts of smoke wherever it runs. Though they have no ranged attacks, they will explode when they are next to an X-COM agent.<br />
<br />
The only way to defend against these enemies is to constantly be on alert, or to be flying well out of its reach. In Real Time combat, actively scanning the area with a [[Motion Scanner (Apocalypse) | motion scanner]] for rapid moving blips can save many lives. <br />
<br />
Poppers will also explode when killed by solid round projectiles, explosions or from blood loss. They will not explode from energy weapons or gas. <br />
<br />
<br />
== [[Anthropod]] == <br />
The Anthropod is the basic foot soldier of the alien invasion. They look like blue veiny blobs with elephantine limbs. Despite their almost comical appearance, their ability to make use of a variety of armaments and tools makes them very deadly foes. <br />
<br />
The Anthropod is one of the two aliens available to the aliens that are capable of wielding tools. <br />
<br />
<br />
== [[Skeletoid]] == <br />
The skeletoid is boney yellow a patchwork man. They are identical to the Anthropod in threat and function with the addition of a hovering ability. This means that they are able to attack from the air and reach places that Anthropods can not go to. <br />
<br />
== [[Queenspawn]] == <br />
The ultimate form and mother of the Multiworms. It is the largest creature that you will face. It is immobile but makes up for this by having an incredibly powerful and fast firing ranged attack that can easily best even the most heavily protected agent. <br />
<br />
Although the Queenspawn can only attack directly in front of it and it is immobile, the major portion of its perceived difficulty stems from its environment. It is placed on a dais that is surrounded by a solid organic alien building wall on one side, and laser curtains are provided on each of its sides to protect its vulnerable sides. This means that it can only be approached from the front. Four re-enforcement teleport pads beyond the dias provide additional troops for it. <br />
<br />
Capture of this alien allows for progression of the [[Alien Gas (Apocalypse) | Alien Gas]] toxin weapon research. <br />
<br />
The queen can only be found in the [[Spawning Chamber]]. <br />
<br />
== [[Megaspawn (Apocalypse) | Megaspawn]] == <br />
<br />
The Megaspawn is an alien built like a tank that is armed with a built-in Disruptor beam that is as powerful as a Devastator cannon and a seemingly endless supply of dimension missiles. One Megaspawn can easily lay waste to an unprepared team of agents. <br />
<br />
They are not without their faults, and their size is one of them. Their larger size makes them easier targets to hit. While it is not always the case, they appear to have some reluctance to fight agents that are right up next to them and will turn and run.<br />
<br />
[[Category: Apocalypse]]<br />
[[Category: Aliens (Apocalypse)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Brainsucker_(Apocalypse)&diff=33643Brainsucker (Apocalypse)2011-05-24T18:27:56Z<p>Jasonred: Correction. I have seen brainsuckers jump on my androids before. It always fails though.</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Brainsucker_(Alive).jpg|thumb|right|The Brainsucker UFOpaedia entry, if captured alive.]]<br />
[[Image:Brainsucker_Autopsy.jpg|thumb|right|The Brainsucker Autopsy report from the UFOpaedia.]]<br />
The Brainsucker will often be the first alien creature you ever see in combat. They resemble a small orange ball with eyes, thin appendages and a large proboscis. They are very weak but make up for this by having great speed and can jump very high. They have no ranged weaponry, but have a lethal melee attack. Their primary means of attack is the element of surprise and carelessness. <br />
<br />
Their sole purpose in combat is to jump onto the head of an X-COM agent, shove it's trunk down, the agent's throat and inject [[Micronoid Aggregate (Apocalypse) | Micronoid Aggregates]] directly into the host and seize control of the brain permanently. The Brainsucker are short lived creatures and will promptly die immediately after this procedure, whether it succeeds or fails. There is a chance that this attempt may fail, based on the Agent's Psi Defence stat. Be aware that [[Personal Disruptor Shield|shields]] and helmet type do not play a part in defending against a Brainsucker attack. Androids, having 100 Psi Defence, will always succeed in resisting this attack. Note that the Brainsuckers seem to be able to aim for agents with the lowest Psi Defence if several targets are nearby.<br />
<br />
Brainsuckers are carried into combat by way of [[Brainsucker Pod|Brainsucker Pods]] and are launched from a [[Brainsucker Launcher]]. The pods will only hatch if left on the ground. If agents quickly scoop up and hold onto the pod, or even store the pod in their backpack, the pods will remain inert. This is a most effective strategy for agents to control the propagation of new brainsuckers. They can later be manually thrown out and dispatched at the agents' leisure. Recovering the pods also allow access to all bio-chemistry research topics on the Brainsucker. <br />
<br />
'''''Official Entry (Captured Alive):''''' "The life span of a Brainsucker is very short, eight hours at most. It has no reproduction or feeding system. Instead it attacks human victims by grasping the head with its claws and inserting its proboscis into the victims throat. The Brainsucker dies immediately after a successful attack, but our tests reveal that the victim is subsequently transformed into an Alien controlled entity. We will not understand the mechanism which causes this until we have completed studies on the full Alien life cycle."<br />
<br />
'''''Official Entry (Autopsy):''''' "This life form appears to have a simple structure with no distinguishable organs apart from an efficient heart and cardiovascular system. There appears to be no means of ingesting food or separate brain structure rendering it immune from Psionic influence. It seems that this creature has little purpose in life except that it is known to attack humans and seems to be designed to do only that. Its complex organic structure may be useful for developing toxins to counter any threat to our race."<br />
<br />
== Notes ==<br />
* An agent in mid-suck cannot access his or her inventory directly. To get around this, access the inventory of another agent and click on the victims portrait to access the inventory screen. <br />
* The best way to defend against a Brainsucker in mid-suck is to have all nearby companions shoot the brainsucker off ''post-haste''! <br />
** Another option when wearing a full suit of armor is to get the victim to use a light explosive. Either by way of an AP grenade or firing an HE Autocannon shell at the adjacent tile or wall. <br />
* Brainsuckers always stun themselves silly when they attempt to jump onto an agent that is lying prone. This works in both RT and TB combat. <br />
* Brainsuckers may have trouble jumping on agents in low doorways. <br />
* On maps with very high elevations, flying can put agents out of the reach of brainsuckers. They can still jump fairly high, so fly as high as the map will allow. <br />
* As mentioned in the description, brainsucker pods will not hatch if held.<br />
**The battlescape trick of combining clips can be used to create a composite pod out of many for easier storage in case your agent does not have enough room. <br />
***Note that as with the clip combination trick, you will still be carrying the same amount of weight as the number of pods you've combined. They only take up less inventory space. <br />
***Empty (0 ammo) pods won't hatch, but to be safe you can make them vanish by loading them into a brainsucker launcher. <br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
* [[Aliens (Apocalypse)|Aliens]]<br />
* [[Alien Life Forms (Apocalypse)|Alien Life Forms]]<br />
* [[Brainsucker Launcher]]<br />
** [[Brainsucker Pod]]<br />
<br />
[[Category: Apocalypse]]<br />
[[Category: Aliens (Apocalypse)]]<br />
[[Category: Research (Apocalypse)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Sonic_Cannon_vs_Displacer/Sonic&diff=33642Sonic Cannon vs Displacer/Sonic2011-05-24T18:05:10Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>Sonic Cannon:<br />
<br />
Veteran soldiers will have higher accuracy (When soldier accuracy is 64 or higher), and fit through narrow spaces.<br />
<br />
Displacer/ Sonic :<br />
<br />
Can fire 3 times and still have 10 TU to spare! (and have same power as Sonic Cannons in TFTD)<br />
Have MUCH better side armor and better rear armor than soldiers.<br />
Higher Health<br />
Are repaired between missions<br />
Can fly on land missions!<br />
99 Ammo (free refills) vs 10 Ammo<br />
Cannot be zombified... have a decent chance of surviving an ambush by a Tentaculat.<br />
<br />
<br />
Huge change between Heavy Plasma vs Hovertank/Plasma in Xcom!<br />
<br />
[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 05:03, 7 April 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
Soldiers gain benefits for killing, tanks don't. Soldiers can swap weapons, use devices, tanks have only one way to operate. Zagorszk, 29-07-2009<br />
<br />
<br />
:Tanks also take up 4 spaces. In a way, it's bad as it means you are denying yourself 300% TU bars worth of weapon operation, and that tanks take extra damage from area effect damage (mind you, the under-armour for displacers are unparalleled). The loss in space is a problem for players that like to use large teams. For players that use small teams, the loss in soldier spaces is meaningless. <br />
<br />
:There is also one thing I want to check when I get a chance, and that is the (TFTD only) tank immunity to reaction fire. It's quite unpredictable, and I've only really seen it in action with the two basic coelacanths. Conflicting reports about them and the three advanced SWS make me wonder if there are some conditions to this. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:49, 30 July 2009 (EDT) <br />
<br />
<br />
A Displacer/Sonic is worth far more then 4 Sonic Cannon soldiers. First off is has greater survivability, unless you equip each man with Magnetic Ion Armor. In that case the cost of the troops goes way up. The Displacer will always be a better scout because of its speed (higher TUs). As a scout you can still have your men act as snipers and gain experience. The best part is that the Displacer/Sonic is immune to Tentaculat attacks. Even having a single human scout turned into a zombie can be the start of a very bad day. [[User:M52nickerson|M52nickerson]] 10:42, 20 September 2010 (EDT) <br />
<br />
Ah, but, NKF, if you're talking about TU bars and firepower, you gotta factor in that soldiers might have to turn 45 degrees or more. Which means that soldier only has enough TUs for one shot per turn. From that perspective, it's quite possible that 4 soldiers would only be able to fire 4 shots per turn, while the tank gets to fire 3 shots. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 14:05, 24 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
<br />
[[Weapon Analysis]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Psionics_(Apocalypse)&diff=33641Psionics (Apocalypse)2011-05-24T17:45:27Z<p>Jasonred: /* Psi Stat Progression by Race */</p>
<hr />
<div>Psionics in Apocalypse makes use of an agent's latent psionic powers to attack an enemy with their mind. This is aided through the [[Mind Bender]], a device similar to [[Psi-Amp]]s of old that were used by the earlier generation of X-COM combatants. <br />
<br />
Psionic powers in the Apocalypse era however are reduced from what they once were during the first two alien invasions. While still powerful in the hands of a powerful human/sectoid hybrid, is field of psionics are no longer the divine balance breaking force that it once was. <br />
<br />
= Psi Stats =<br />
<br />
An agent will have three separate [[Agents Stats (Apocalypse)|stats]] that govern their psi ability. Psi Defence, Psi Energy and Psi Skill. <br />
<br />
;Defense: Controls how well the agent will be able to resist attack. <br />
;Skill: The Aptitude of the agent at performing a successful attack. <br />
;Energy: How much psi energy your agent can store. Think of it as the currency for psi attacks. This recharges in small amounts during combat. <br />
<br />
== Training Psi Stats ==<br />
<br />
Psi is a long term investment. You will not be able to get brand new agents to perform successful psi attacks right away. With time and patience, their psi abilities will become much more significant. <br />
<br />
Psi stat training is done primarily performed through the [[Psi-Gym (Apocalypse)|Psi-Gym]]. Every day at the stroke of midnight, if an agent has been assigned to the lab and is at full health (i.e. the opposite of the [[Medical Bay (Apocalypse)|med-lab]] requirement), the agent will get a chance at gaining some minor increases to his or her psi stats. <br />
<br />
Psi stats for very agent will only be able to improve three times the base amount. For example, if an agent starts with 25 Energy, the agent will max at 75 energy. <br />
<br />
== Psi Stat Progression by Race ==<br />
<br />
;[[Humans (Apocalypse)|Humans]] : Humans have very low psi stats, therefore they make the weakest psionic users as their maximum psi stats will be very low. They are still able to obtain a small success rate at probing enemy targets. <br />
<br />
;[[Hybrids (Apocalypse)|Hybrids]]: The mutants will be the core of your psi users as they get the highest base psi stat rolls. However they are weaker than humans, thus have to invest some time in the combat gym as well, so their overall training time tends to be double that of their human counterparts if you wish to keep their strength stat up, which can only be raised through physical training and not actual combat. <br />
<br />
;[[Androids (Apocalypse)|Androids]]: Androids cannot use psi because their psi skill and energy start at 0 and cannot improve beyond that. Their psi defense however is set to 100. This is mostly redundant because enemy psi users ignore androids as psi targets, brainsuckers being the sole exception. This makes them effective at combating enemy psi units.<br />
<br />
= Psi Attack Requirements/Limitations =<br />
<br />
In order to perform a psionic attack, the user must: <br />
<br />
# Have a [[Mind Bender]] <br />
# Be able to see the target <br />
# Have enough energy to perform the attack. <br />
# Be able to maintain the attack (RT Combat only) <br />
<br />
Obviously, to perform a successful attack, the psi users must have a strong enough skill level to combat the target's psi defence. <br />
<br />
== Potential Psi Targets == <br />
<br />
Psi powers, though powerful, are limited to a small selection of targets due to the unusually high levels of psi defense most enemies exhibit. <br />
<br />
As such, Psi can only be used reliably on humanoid tool-weilding enemies. Namely, [[Anthropod (Apocalypse)|Anthropod]]s, [[Skeletoid (Apocalypse)|Skeletoid]]s and all humanoid enemy guards. <br />
<br />
Every other alien will have such high resistance that only probes will be reliable. All other attacks will tend to have a very low chance of success (2% being the most common). <br />
<br />
Although you are severely limited to the types of enemies you can control, these are also the most significant enemies to control due to the items that they carry. They are also the most common targets.<br />
<br />
= Mind Bender Quick Overview =<br />
<br />
The mind bender is akin to a sorceror's magic staff. A device to channel the user's energy. <br />
<br />
The mind bender provides several functions. The first is a display of the agent's psi stats. These are the same that you can view in the inventory screen, although you can see any updates to the stats as they happen. The data may not be instantaneous, so give the game a few seconds to update the screen. In Real Time Combat, bringing up this panel will also break any current active attack you may have on at the moment. <br />
<br />
The primary use of the mind bender is to perform four separate psi attacks on the enemy. Probe, Panic, Stun and Mind Control. <br />
<br />
;Probe: The easiest function, and only gives you access to the target's statistics in the inventory screen. <br />
<br />
; Panic: Causes the target to lose morale. One of the easier attacks with minimal drain in real-time. Once the target's morale is too low, it will start to panic. <br />
<br />
;Stun: Inflicts stun damage on an enemy target. If the stun threshold exceeds the unit's health, it will be knocked out. Stun damage is the same as the type caused by the stun grenade or stun grapple. <br />
<br />
;Mind Control: Takes full control over the target. The hardest and most expensive attack to perform. <br />
<br />
For detailed information on each attack, see the [[Mind Bender]] article. <br />
<br />
= Turn Based vs. Real Time Psi =<br />
<br />
All of the mind bender attacks will differ based on the game mode. <br />
<br />
In Turn Based, each attack is a one-use attack and the effect takes effect right away. This is not too dissimilar to how it previously functioned, only you still require line of sight. <br />
<br />
In Real Time, once an attack is successful, it must be maintained by spending psi energy in order for the attack to keep the attack live. <br />
<br />
== Real Time: Maintenance Costs == <br />
<br />
As long as you are attacking the target, your psi energy will be consumed at a rate depending on the attack mode selected. The harder the mode, the more energy will be drained. <br />
<br />
Probe and mind control are instantaneous, but require energy to maintain for as long as you want the effect to last. <br />
<br />
Stun and Panic do not affect the target immediately, but slowly build up the longer the link is maintained. Of the four attacks, these two must be maintained long enough for their effects to be of any use. <br />
<br />
Note that maintenance costs only take effect as the clock is ticking, not while the game is paused. You can avoid paying maintenance costs for probe and mind control by using them while the game is paused, and then breaking the link before restarting the clock. <br />
<br />
<br />
== Real Time: Breaking the Psi Link == <br />
<br />
An active attack will be broken when:<br />
<br />
* The target goes beyond the user's line of sight<br />
* The user runs out of psi energy<br />
* The user manually breaks the link by selecting a new attack on the mind bender. <br />
<br />
At this time, some testing will be needed to verify:<br />
* When the target breaks contact if it falls out of the psi user's line of sight. * If the link is broken when another user succeeds in performing an attack on a unit that's already being attacked. <br />
<br />
== Real Time: Effect on Neutral Guards ==<br />
<br />
If you were to perform a non-violent raid on a non-hostile organization, you can safely practice with your mind bender to your heart's content on the guards with no repercussions. <br />
<br />
If the guards are hurt in any way while under mind control, this will be viewed as a violent action towards the organization and may cause the guards to turn hostile on your agents. <br />
<br />
If the guard gets hurt after you've broken the mind control link, then the action will not be blamed on your troops. Even if the guard is killed or sustains fatal wounds and dies from them, your relations with the building owners will not be affected. The guards must see it as self inflicted damage. <br />
<br />
Note that that while this condition was tested only on whether guards will turn hostile towards you, no visible changes in relation standing or requests for compensation were observed afterwards.<br />
<br />
= Tips = <br />
<br />
* Hire some hybrids from the very start and have them studying in the Psy Gym right from the word go. Either keep them out of direct combat, or make sure they take it easy during the battle. They may not seem like much now, but they will improve.<br />
* If you hire lots of hybrids, consider placing half of them in [[Training Area (Apocalypse)|combat training]] and the other half in the psy gym. Swap them over from time to time. <br />
* Multiple psi users should be employed to combat the low amount of psi energy a single agent will have. Let one attack while the other rests. <br />
* Don't over-use your psi in a single burst. On the otherh and, try not to let your psi-energy go to waste by having an energy bar at 100% at all times. <br />
* Mind Control and Probe in Real Time should be used while the game is paused. With Mind Control, do as much as you can in the enemy's inventory such as set off explosives (remember to activate them by moving them after setting the timer) and then breaking the mind control.<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
<br />
* [[Training (Apocalypse)|Training]] <br />
* [[Mind Bender]] <br />
* [[Psi-Gym (Apocalypse)|Psy-Gym]] <br />
<br />
[[Category: Apocalypse]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Reaction_fire_triggers&diff=33640Reaction fire triggers2011-05-24T17:42:38Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>Certain actions will trigger reaction fire from aliens; others will not, even though they may reduce your [[Time Units]]. (However, if you have used up several TUs doing "safe" actions then conclude with a reaction-triggering one, an alien with sufficient TUs will make several "stored up" reaction shots against you.)<br />
<br />
The following is a (possibly incomplete) list of which actions will and will not trigger reaction fire. Opposing units also need to be facing your unit(s) and have sufficient TUs available; see [[Reaction fire formula]] for more details.<br />
<br />
<br><br />
<br />
'''Will trigger reaction shots from an alien facing you:'''<br />
<br />
*Firing any weapon<br />
*Kneeling or standing<br />
*Any walking/flying movement<br />
*Using a lift<br />
*Throwing any object<br />
<br><br />
<br />
'''Will trigger reaction shots from an alien not facing you:'''<br />
<br />
*Hitting an alien (they will spin around and return fire)<br />
*Hitting an alien with indirect fire from HE or stun rounds (or even triggering a [[Proximity Grenade]] within range)<br />
*Using a [[Stun Rod]] or other melee weapon (TFTD) on an alien -- this one is a real oddball: the alien will be "alerted" to your attack, but will not spin and fire until you take one of the actions above that normally triggers reaction shots. Thus you can try stunning them several times, but if you then walk away, they will spin around and shoot. If a different soldier hits the alien with a Stun Rod, the alien's focus will shift to that soldier -- and the first soldier can then safely walk away again. Heh. (Hitting an alien that is directly facing you with a Stun Rod will not trigger reaction shots either, until you perform some other action.)<br />
<br><br />
*Hitting an alien from out of sight distance is similiar to the stun rod. The alien will be "alerted", but will not spin and fire UNLESS you walk within 20 tiles of him, at which point he will suddenly spin around and shoot. This is a pretty rare event though, since it will usually only occur if you had someone firing at an alien from 21 squares away, fire on him, hit, and he survives, then you walk within 20 squares distance (possibly to make way for someone else to fire from 21 tiles away).<br />
<br />
<br />
'''Will never trigger reaction shots:'''<br />
<br />
*Turning in place<br />
*Firing a weapon from beyond the alien's visual range<br />
*Firing at a [[Celatid]] from beyond its range: 8+ squares indoors (roof immediately overhead) or 17+ squares outdoors is safe (this is due to Celatids' arcing fire trajectory)<br />
*Taking any action (including firing a weapon) from a position not visible to the alien. The visibility is calculated after the the action is taken. For example, if you are visible to the alien, and fire a large rocket between you and the alien, generating a smoke cloud that makes you invisible to the alien, there will be no reaction.<br />
*Moving out of an alien's [[line of sight]] -- if after moving one square (or kneeling) you are not visible to the alien, it will not fire at you. This includes moving back one step if you are at the edge of the alien's visual range. '''If you spot an alien while wandering through smoke, you can move back a step then safely riddle it with holes!'''<br />
*Priming a grenade<br />
*Firing at (but missing) an alien not facing you<br />
*Hitting an alien not facing you with [[incendiary]] rounds, directly or indirectly (combined with the [[Incendiary#Quirks|IC explosions causing damage to all units in fire quirk]], this is insanely powerful)<br />
*Any action on the inventory screen (moving, dropping or picking up objects; loading or unloading a weapon)<br />
*Using a Medi-Kit, Mind Probe or Motion Scanner<br />
<div id="mutual_surprise"></div><br />
*'''Mutual surprise:'''<br />
** If a unit first sees an alien at the same instant that they first move into an alien's [[line of sight]], the alien won't fire, even if you have no TUs left. The alien you spot doesn't even have to be the alien that spots you -- you can walk through a door and see an alien ahead of you, which will prevent unseen aliens to the side from attacking you.<br />
** There are cases where aliens can see you (and even fire upon you!), but you can't see them, even if you're facing them (such as walking toward an open door, or when nearing a corner).<br />
** The "mutual surprise" rule seems to only apply to when you ''walk'' (or fly) into an alien's line of sight: if you spot an alien by destroying terrain, or by killing an alien (uncovering another behind it), the newly-revealed alien will shoot at you if it is facing you. An alien will also shoot at you if you spot it when standing from a formerly-concealed position.<br />
** The mutual surprise rule also does not apply if you move into an alien's field of vision via vertical movement, by using a lift or a [[Flying Suit]]. Even if you are facing the alien, you will get shot at as you move up or down into its line of sight.<br />
** To try to take advantage of this and spot aliens as you round a corner, you should (if possible) approach it at least one space away from the corner and come around at a diagonal. However, there can be a number of "blind spots" near corners, where aliens can see you but you can't see them (see [[Line of sight#Blind spots around corners]]).<br />
** Aliens also benefit from mutual surprise. However, an X-COM unit being tracked by aliens' "intelligence" is already visible, thus cannot trigger the not-visible to visible transition that allows mutual surprise.</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Buying/Selling/Transferring_(TFTD)&diff=33637Buying/Selling/Transferring (TFTD)2011-05-22T14:23:19Z<p>Jasonred: Economic Trivia</p>
<hr />
<div>== Purchase Times ==<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
|+ Purchase Times<br />
|-<br />
!ITEM !! TIME (Hours) !! TIME (Days)<br />
|-<br />
| All Personnel || 72 || 3 <br />
|-<br />
| TRITON || 72 || 3<br />
|-<br />
| BARRACUDA || 96 || 4<br />
|-<br />
| Craft Weapons || 48 || 2<br />
|-<br />
| Craft Missiles || 48 || 2<br />
|-<br />
| Gas Rounds(×50) || 96 || 4<br />
|-<br />
| SWS || 96 || 4<br />
|-<br />
| SWS Ammo || 48 || 2<br />
|-<br />
| All Weapons || 24 || 1<br />
|-<br />
| All Ammunition || 24 || 1<br />
|-<br />
| All Equipment || 24 || 1<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== Non-Manufacturable Prices ==<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
|+ Non-Manufacturable Prices<br />
|-<br />
! ITEM !! Buy Price ($)!! Sell Price ($)<br />
|-<br />
| Aquanaut || align="right" | 40,000 || align="right" | 0<br />
|-<br />
| Scientist || align="right" | 60,000 || align="right" | 0<br />
|-<br />
| Technician || align="right" | 50,000 || align="right" | 0<br />
|-<br />
| TRITON || align="right" | 500,000 || align="right" | 0<br />
|-<br />
| BARRACUDA || align="right" | 600,000 || align="right" | 0<br />
|-<br />
| Ajax Launcher || align="right" | 16,000 || align="right" | 12,000<br />
|-<br />
| D.U.P. Head Launcher || align="right" | 17,000 || align="right" | 12,750<br />
|-<br />
| Craft Gas Cannon || align="right" | 30,000 || align="right" | 22,500<br />
|-<br />
| Ajax Torpedoes || align="right" | 3,000 || align="right" | 2,400<br />
|-<br />
| D.U.P. Head Torpedoes || align="right" | 9,000 || align="right" | 7,200<br />
|-<br />
| Gas Rounds(×50) || align="right" | 1,240 || align="right" | 1,012<br />
|-<br />
| Coelacanth/G. Cannon || align="right" | 420,000 || align="right" | 340,000<br />
|-<br />
| Solid Harpoon Bolts || align="right" | 200 || align="right" | 100<br />
|-<br />
| Coelacanth/Aqua Jet || align="right" | 480,000 || align="right" | 360,000<br />
|-<br />
| Aqua Jet Missiles || align="right" | 3,000 || align="right" | 2,250<br />
|-<br />
| Dart Gun || align="right" | 800 || align="right" | 600<br />
|-<br />
| Dart Clip || align="right" | 70 || align="right" | 52<br />
|-<br />
| Jet Harpoon || align="right" | 3,000 || align="right" | 2,250<br />
|-<br />
| Harpoon Clip || align="right" | 200 || align="right" | 150<br />
|-<br />
| Gas Cannon || align="right" | 6,400 || align="right" | 4,800<br />
|-<br />
| GC-AP Bolts || align="right" | 300 || align="right" | 225<br />
|-<br />
| GC-HE Bolts || align="right" | 500 || align="right" | 275<br />
|-<br />
| GC-Phosphorous Bolts || align="right" | 400 || align="right" | 300<br />
|-<br />
| Hydro-Jet Cannon || align="right" | 13,500 || align="right" | 10,125<br />
|-<br />
| HJ-AP Ammo || align="right" | 500 || align="right" | 400<br />
|-<br />
| HJ-HE Ammo || align="right" | 700 || align="right" | 560<br />
|-<br />
| HJ-P Ammo || align="right" | 650 || align="right" | 520<br />
|-<br />
| Torpedo Launcher || align="right" | 4,000 || align="right" | 3,000<br />
|-<br />
| Small Torpedo || align="right" | 600 || align="right" | 480<br />
|-<br />
| Large Torpedo || align="right" | 900 || align="right" | 720<br />
|-<br />
| Phosphor Torpedo || align="right" | 1,200 || align="right" | 960<br />
|-<br />
| Magna-Blast Grenade || align="right" | 300 || align="right" | 240<br />
|-<br />
| Dye Grenade || align="right" | 150 || align="right" | 120<br />
|-<br />
| Particle Disturbance Grenade|| align="right" | 500 || align="right" | 400<br />
|-<br />
| Magna-Pack Explosive || align="right" | 1,500 || align="right" | 1,200<br />
|-<br />
| Thermal Tazer || align="right" | 1,260 || align="right" | 945<br />
|-<br />
| Chemical-flare || align="right" | 60 || align="right" | 40<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== Manufacturable Prices ==<br />
<br />
=== Table ===<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
|+ Manufacturable Prices<br />
|-<br />
! ITEM !! Start Price ($) !! Sell Price ($) !! Tech Hours !! $Profit/hr !! scope="col" class="unsortable" | Payback<br />
|- <br />
| HAMMERHEAD || align="right" | 400,000 || align="right" | 0 || align="right" |14000 || align="right" |- 82<br />
|-<br />
| MANTA || align="right" | 600,000 || align="right" | 0 || align="right" |18000 || align="right" |- 82<br />
|-<br />
| LEVIATHAN || align="right" | 900,000 || align="right" | 0 || align="right" |34000 || align="right" |- 66<br />
|-<br />
| Gauss Pistol || align="right" | 8,000 || align="right" | 20,000 || align="right" | 300 || align="right" | 40 || 15 mon<br />
|-<br />
| Gauss Pistol Clip || align="right" | 1,000 || align="right" | 1,050 || align="right" | 20 || align="right" | 2.5||(never)<br />
|-<br />
| Gauss Rifle || align="right" | 20,000 || align="right" | 36,900 || align="right" | 400 || align="right" | 42 || 10 mon<br />
|-<br />
| Gauss Rifle Clip || align="right" | 2,000 || align="right" | 1,950 || align="right" | 45 || align="right" |- 1<br />
|-<br />
| Heavy Gauss || align="right" | 32,000 || align="right" | 61,000 || align="right" | 700 || align="right" | 41 || 11 mon<br />
|-<br />
| Heavy Gauss Clip || align="right" | 4,000 || align="right" | 3,220 || align="right" | 70 || align="right" |- 11<br />
|-<br />
| Sonic Pistol || align="right" | 56,000 || align="right" | 84,000 || align="right" | 600 || align="right" | 36 || 16 yrs<br />
|-<br />
| Pistol Power Clip || align="right" | 2,000 || align="right" | 4,440 || align="right" | 60 || align="right" |- 43<br />
|-<br />
| Sonic-Blasta Rifle || align="right" | 88,000 || align="right" | 126,500 || align="right" | 820 || align="right" | 39 || 19 mon<br />
|-<br />
| Blasta Power Clip || align="right" | 3,000 || align="right" | 6,290 || align="right" | 80 || align="right" |- 84<br />
|-<br />
| Sonic Cannon || align="right" | 122,000 || align="right" | 171,600 || align="right" |1,000 || align="right" | 43 || 9 mon<br />
|-<br />
| Cannon Power Clip || align="right" | 6,000 || align="right" | 9,590 || align="right" | 80 || align="right" |-143<br />
|-<br />
| Sonic Pulser || align="right" | 6,700 || align="right" | 14,850 || align="right" | 200 || align="right" |- 9<br />
|-<br />
| Disruptor Pulse Launcher || align="right" | 90,000 || align="right" | 144,000 || align="right" | 1200 || align="right" | 40 || 16 mon<br />
|-<br />
| Disruptor Ammo || align="right" | 8,000 || align="right" | 17,028 || align="right" | 220 || align="right" |- 27<br />
|-<br />
| Thermal Shok Launcher || align="right" | 78,000 || align="right" | 120,000 || align="right" | 900 || align="right" | 39 || 17 mon<br />
|-<br />
| Thermal Shok Bomb || align="right" | 7,000 || align="right" | 15,200 || align="right" | 200 || align="right" | 16 ||(never)<br />
|-<br />
| Vibro Blade || align="right" | 7,000 || align="right" | 1,500 || align="right" | 150 || align="right" |- 70<br />
|-<br />
| Thermic Lance || align="right" | 12,000 || align="right" | 1,800 || align="right" | 220 || align="right" |- 92<br />
|-<br />
| Heavy Thermic Lance || align="right" | 20,000 || align="right" | 2,000 || align="right" | 300 || align="right" |- 93<br />
|-<br />
| Particle Disturbance Sensor || align="right" | 34,000 || align="right" | 45,600 || align="right" | 220 || align="right" | 53 || 4 mon<br />
|-<br />
| Medi-Kit || align="right" | 28,000 || align="right" | 46,500 || align="right" | 420 || align="right" | 44 || 8 mon<br />
|-<br />
| M.C. Reader || align="right" | 262,000 || align="right" | 304,000 || align="right" | 1200 || align="right" | 25 ||(never)<br />
|-<br />
| M.C. Disruptor || align="right" | 160,000 || align="right" | 194,700 || align="right" | 500 || align="right" | 36 || 6 yrs<br />
|-<br />
| Gauss Cannon || align="right" | 182,000 || align="right" | 211,000 || align="right" | 300 || align="right" | 97 || 33 days<br />
|-<br />
| Gauss Cannon Ammo || align="right" | 200 || align="right" | 200 || align="right" | 5 || align="right" | 0<br />
|-<br />
| Sonic Oscillator || align="right" | 226,000 || align="right" | 267,300 || align="right" | 500 || align="right" |- 67<br />
|-<br />
| P.W.T. Cannon || align="right" | 242,000 || align="right" | 281,100 || align="right" | 400 || align="right" | 81.5|| 44 days<br />
|-<br />
| P.W.T Ammo (craft) || align="right" | 28,000 || align="right" | 53,300 || align="right" | 600 || align="right" | 9 ||(never)<br />
|-<br />
| Coelacanth/Gauss || align="right" | 500,000 || align="right" | 594,000 || align="right" | 1200 || align="right" | 78 || 48 days<br />
|-<br />
| Displacer /Sonic || align="right" | 850,000 || align="right" | 980,000 || align="right" | 1200 || align="right" |- 44<br />
|-<br />
| Displacer /P. W. T. || align="right" | 900,000 || align="right" |1,043,000 || align="right" | 1400 || align="right" |- 24<br />
|-<br />
| P.W. Torpedo (SWS) || align="right" | 15,000 || align="right" | 31,500 || align="right" | 400 || align="right" |-151<br />
|-<br />
| Ion-Beam Accelerators || align="right" | 130,000 || align="right" | 250,000 || align="right" | 1400 || align="right" | 5 ||(never)<br />
|-<br />
| Magnetic Navigation || align="right" | 150,000 || align="right" | 80,000 || align="right" | 1600 || align="right" |- 56<br />
|-<br />
| Aqua Plastics || align="right" | 3,000 || align="right" | 6,500 || align="right" | 100 || align="right" | 35 ||(never)<br />
|-<br />
| Plastic Aqua Armor || align="right" | 22,000 || align="right" | 54,000 || align="right" | 800 || align="right" | 7.5||(never)<br />
|-<br />
| Ion Armor || align="right" | 42,000 || align="right" | 85,000 || align="right" | 1000 || align="right" |- 15<br />
|-<br />
| Mag. Ion Armor || align="right" | 58,000 || align="right" | 115,000 || align="right" | 1400 || align="right" |- 40<br />
|}<br />
<br />
=== Notes to Table ===<br />
<br />
NOTE: '''Profit''' is measured in $ per technician hours. It is calculated<br />
by taking the difference between an item's selling price and its <br />
total build costs (including manufacturing start costs, and any <br />
exotic component costs) and dividing that by the technician hours <br />
required to build it. The profit is simply how much money you make <br />
in one hour with one technician building a particular item just to <br />
sell it. '''Payback''' is the time required for profits to repay all <br />
initial costs. So there is no "true profit" until after the <br />
Payback period has passed.<br />
<br />
=== Further Notes === <br />
<br />
*The profit levels calculated above include the lost resale value of all manufactured/recovered components (Zrbite, Aqua Plastics, Ion-Beam Accelerators, Magnetic Navigation) used in their manufacture. In many cases this reduces the profit considerably. <br />
*Also, keep in mind that that each technician costs $36/hr in salary, Living Quarters maintenance, and Workshop space maintenance. Any "profit" less than $36/hr is not really a true profit, it's just a subsidy to reduce your outgoings on Technician costs and overheads. <br />
*In addition, before a true profit is made, you must recover the initial costs of hiring the Technicians, building their Living Quarters and their Workshop. Recovering these initial outlays will cost the equivalent of $67/hr per Technician for one month (or just over $11/hr for six months, etc). The '''Payback''' period shown above is the time taken to repay these costs (assuming multiples of 50 Technicians). <br />
*As in the real world, fixed assets (such as workshops and living quarters) need to be fully utilised in order to be the most profitable. Whenever you use and hire Technicians in less than multiples of 50, the overhead costs are proportionally even higher, and the payback period on initial costs is longer.<br />
<br />
=== Analysis ===<br />
<br />
*The most profitable item to produce is the Gauss Cannon. The (craft) PWT Launcher and the Coelecanth/Gauss SWS have similar profitability to the Gauss Cannon. The Gauss SWS can be discounted since the Gauss Cannon must be researched before the Gauss SWS, which also has the requirement of Manta research. <br />
*Whether the Gauss Cannon is likely to be researched before the PWT Launcher probably depends on the individual Commander's preference (or not) for Gauss weapons on the battlefield. For a Commander who generally avoids Gauss development, the PWT could provide an alternative route to profitability, as well as a usable craft weapon that is quicker to research than a Sonic Oscillator (if expensive to operate in terms of Zrbite and manufacturing time).<br />
*The next most profitable item is the Particle Disturbance Sensor, which has the advantage that it can be successfully researched very early in the game, and also requires no Zrbite or Aqua Plastics. <br />
*Almost all of the profitable manufacturing activities would be considered very good commercial investments. A Gauss Cannon factory, with an annual Return on Investment of nearly 1100%, would be considered an economic miracle. Even the Particle Disturbance Sensor (RoI just over 300%) would have investors beating down the doors. The only tricky part would be insuring the factory site against Alien attack. The simple explanation for this would be that X-com has a monopoly, and is selling something that is rather close to contraband, has the government paying tribute to it, has unlimited demand for it's products, and does not pay for advertising. For comparison, imagine what Pepsi would be worth if there were no other soft drinks in the market and their budget for annual advertisements became pure profit. Or a pharmaceutical company which didn't have to pay for R&D, patenting, safety tests, red tape, bribes, etc. A Chinese take-away could in theory achieve 1100& returns though, assuming each dish costs $1.50 in ingredients and labor, and sells for $5, assuming it sold food as fast as they could cook it.<br />
<br />
== USO Recoverable Prices ==<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
|+ USO Recoverable Prices<br />
! ITEM !! Sell Price<br />
|-<br />
| Zrbite <sup>1</sup> || align="right" | 5,000 <br />
|-<br />
| Alien Corpses || align="right" | 20,000<br />
|-<br />
| Alien Sub Construction || align="right" | 20,000<br />
|-<br />
| Alien Cryogenics || align="right" | 5,000<br />
|-<br />
| Alien Cloning || align="right" | 40,000<br />
|-<br />
| Alien Learning Arrays || align="right" | 20,000<br />
|-<br />
| Alien Implanter || align="right" | 38,000<br />
|-<br />
| Examination Room || align="right" | 9,000<br />
|-<br />
| Alien Re-animation Zone || align="right" | 100<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<sup>1</sup> Zrbite can only be acquired through salvaging from UFOs and Alien Colonies. As such, you are strongly advised NOT to sell it.<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
<br />
*[[Buying/Selling/Transferring|Buying/Selling/Transferring (Enemy Unknown)]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:data tables]]<br />
[[Category:TFTD]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Sectopod&diff=33631Sectopod2011-05-16T18:51:42Z<p>Jasonred: sectopods use lasers</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:sectopod.png|right|Sectopod]]<br />
The '''Sectopod''' "Walker" is one of the most dangerous terror units X-COM has come up against. Their armour is nearly impervious to all weapons fire, but they appear to be vulnerable to [[Weapons#Laser Technology|lasers]].<br />
<br />
Sectopods are seen in the company of [[Ethereal]]s in base defenses and terror missions. Beware, their weapon is a powerful laser with autofire capability, which can make short work of any enemy of the Sectopod in seconds.<br />
<br />
== General Information ==<br />
Every Sectopod is completely identical and is built not only for self-sufficient commands and operation, but also psychic/psionic manipulation -- an Ethereal could potentially control a Sectopod as if it were it's own body, from millions of miles away.<br />
<br />
If X-COM ground forces encounter Sectopods on Earth, it will usually be during a [[Base Defense]], [[Alien Base Assault]], or [[Terror Mission]]. Terror attacks by [[Ethereal]]s are the most dangerous for both [[Civilian]]s and X-COM units - apart from having to deal with their psionic abilities, we also have to fight against Sectopods.<br />
<br />
== Statistics ==<br />
'''TUs:''' 62-71<br />
'''Health:''' 96<br />
'''Energy:''' 90-104<br />
'''Reactions:''' 64-79<br />
'''Strength:''' 90-97<br />
'''Bravery:''' 110<br />
'''Firing Accuracy:''' 30-70<br />
'''Psi Skill:''' N/A<br />
'''Psi Strength:''' 100-116<br />
<br />
'''Damage:''' 100 Laser<br />
'''Accuracy-'''<br />
'''Snap:''' 75%<br />
'''Auto:''' 50%<br />
'''Aimed:''' 110%<br />
'''TUs-'''<br />
'''Snap:''' 30%<br />
'''Auto:''' 35%<br />
'''Aimed:''' 60%<br />
<br />
== Live Specimen ==<br />
Sectopods are robot creatures with a powerful plasma beam weapon. The control of these mechanical beasts is via a telepathic link to their controllers, the [[Ethereal|Ethereals]]. Sectopods are the most powerful terror weapon available to the alien forces. ''Note: it is not possible to capture one, the only way to get this report is to get it from a captured [[medic]]. Also, the ufopedia is lying... the sectopod uses a LASER weapon, not plasma. It just LOOKS like plasma.''<br />
<br />
== Autopsy ==<br />
[[Image:sectopodautopsy.png|right|Sectopod, Disassembled]]<br />
This robot is sturdily constructed with powerful armour capable of resisting most forms of attack, in particular plasma weapons. However, the sensing circuitry seems particularly vulnerable to laser weapons.<br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
* Sectopods take 80% damage from high explosives and plasma, and 150% from laser. Combined with their strong armour, even the [[Heavy Plasma]] will have a very difficult time taking down a Sectopod - expect to expend many clips. Ideally the rear should be targeted, since it has a sizable 40 points (20 points on easy) less armour than the front. If you anticipate fighting Sectopods, dust off your old Heavy Lasers. Blaster and Stun bombs are even more effective if you have them.<br />
<br />
* Some commanders keep [[Tank/Laser Cannon]]s on hand to deal with Sectopods. The turret laser's high power, combined with the Sectopods vulnerability to lasers, encourages troops to keep Laser tanks on hand when they would otherwise be scrapped in favour of hovertanks.<br />
<br />
* The extremely impressive under armor of the Sectopod(45 on Beginner, 90 at all other difficulties) combined with the resistance to explosives means that a Sectopod is immune to standard grenades, and almost immune to Alien Grenades, and it will require around 10 High-Explosives to kill one. Fortunately, the mighty Blaster Bomb has a high chance of killing a Sectopod in one hit.<br />
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* As a robot, a Sectopod has incredibly high Psi Strength, making it almost impossible to effectively use Psionics against it. However, if you do have a soldier strong enough to Mind-Control a Sectopod, by all means do so; it's basically like adding a tank to your troop roster for the turn. As an added bonus, because the Sectopod fires lasers, the fastest way to destroy a Sectopod is to partially MC it, and then have the MC'ed portions fire upon the non MC'ed portions. On average, a Sectopod can kill another Sectopod in about one turn of continuous fire. Sometimes you can make the sectopod walk, and the non-MC'ed portions will reaction fire on itself.<br />
<br />
* The Sectopod's turret, although masquerading as a plasma weapon, is really a laser weapon. This explains how the Sectopods can self-kill themselves so easily during partial mind control. A quickly-made-up excuse would be that they are 'green' lasers. Green lasers that fire thick globs of light.<br />
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* The only infantry weapons that are effective against the front and side armour of a Sectopod (or under armour, for explosives) are (in order of effectiveness) the Blaster Bomb, Stun Bomb, Heavy Laser, HE Pack, Heavy Plasma, Laser Rifle and Large Rocket. (Laser Pistols have a theoretical chance but it's almost nil.) On average a Heavy Laser will take down a Sectopod in about 3-5 hits, more at higher difficulty levels. A Blaster Bomb ought to take out the Sectopod in one direct hit (usually). A Stun Bomb is about fifty percent more effective, per hit, than a turn of fire from a Heavy Laser. And even the HE Pack, Heavy Plasma and Laser Rifle (about as good as each other) will only nibble away at it - the Rocket's nibbles are even smaller.<br />
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* However, due to the 40 point armor difference in front and rear, weapon ranking is dependent on which armor is being attacked. From behind, Laser Rifle and Heavy Plasma will kill a Sectopod even faster than a Heavy Laser. From the front, the Laser Rifle, Heavy Plasma and Heavy Laser will on average take 22, 18 and 4 hits for a kill. From the back it is 6, 5 and 2 hits respectively. Considering that the Heavy Laser has no auto mode and is quite inaccurate, the other two take seem to take the lead from behind.<br />
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==See Also==<br />
{{Aliens Navbar}}<br />
[[Category:Alien Life Forms]]<br />
[[Category:Research (EU)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Known_Bugs&diff=33629Talk:Known Bugs2011-05-14T10:53:23Z<p>Jasonred: /* Bugs vs Exploits */</p>
<hr />
<div>= Classification etc =<br />
<br />
== Bugs vs Exploits ==<br />
<br />
Could someone comment please on the distinction between a bug and an exploit, and where to put each one? I would guess that a bug is something that undesirable and an exploit "might be" desirable, if you want to cheat. But what about exploits that happen by accident, or bugs that need to be forced to happen? <br />
<br />
I was going to add the Research Rollover bug to the Exploits sections, but they seem to all be under construction. What's the agreed approach?<br />
<br />
[[User:Spike|Spike]] 04:16, 15 March 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
* i think that an exploit is somthing you can trigger and gain an advantage from. a bug may or may not have a known trigger, and does not give an advantage if it does.<br />
: All exploits are bugs, either in implementation or design. When using a bug to gain advantages that bug is used as an exploit (you are exploiting the bug). [[User:FrederikHertzum|FrederikHertzum]] 13:39, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
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:: IMHO, Laser Pistols Gifts to train reactions is an exploit, but it does not involve any bugs. It merely exploits the fact that laser pistols will not penetrate the front armor of Flying Suits. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 16:31, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
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::: I guess the point is to differentiate if it's a bug that's being exploited to your advantage, or it it's something confined within the game mechanics that you are exploiting to your advantage (even if using it as intended). -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:31, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::: Another definition: An exploit is <br />
::::: a) a move allowed by game interface <br />
::::: b) that sidesteps another part of the game mechanics<br />
::::: c) and creates inadequate advantage for the moving player in the process.<br />
::::: An exploit is not a bug, but it can be connected with a bug, if the latter allows a move mentioned in a). Most obvious exploits render whole parts of game mechanics obsolete (see b) above), because they are always more advantageous. In games that feature equal terms for AI and the player, an exploit can be discerned simply by the fact that AI does not use it (sadly this is not true in X-COM). Clear exploit in X-COM: Transfer soldiers = no monthly payment. Suspect exploits: grenade layout. Most probably not an exploit: Sniping (although the inequality with AI is suspect). Clearly not an exploit: dropping weapons to prevent Psi mass murder (this one is made exploitable by the AI unable to pick up weapons, but is not an exploit per se).--[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 05:30, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
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The dropping weapons sort of turns into an exploit if you do the "everyone suspect of being a psi weakling drops their weapons at the end of the turn. They all pick up their weapons again if unpsied in the next turn." The grenade layout or grenade hot potato is probably not what the game designers had in mind, but I shudder at the thought of someone who only played X-com then joined the army pulling the pin out of his grenade and then dropping it into his haversack or slinging it on his belt. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 07:43, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Yeah, I think we agreed somewhere that shoving live grenades in your pockets and not having them go off is madness. The relay however is not sensible but certainly possible if only a very short one (if with a live grenade), or to toss a grenade forward and prime it at the second to last person. Or more reasonably, something like a stick of dynamite with an extra long fuse. Even that's very dangerous. <br />
<br />
: By the way, what does everyone here think of using the mind probe to check if it's safe to attack an alien while standing in full view of it, or if you're right up next to it? I've been using it a lot lately (in lieu of the psi amp), so you could say I've been exploiting the mind probe to my advantage to help me with my decision making. But is that counted as a cheat since I'm picking my moments to attack up close when the enemy cannot return fire? -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:30, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: When identifying a mechanic as an "unfair exploit" (as opposed to just a "tactic"), perhaps a simpler checklist is this (though Kyrub's is spot-on):<br />
<br />
:: a) Is this something the developers should've expected players to do?<br />
:: b) Is this something the developers could've easily prevented?<br />
<br />
:: If the answer to both is "yes", then it seems fair game to me. For eg, sniping at aliens: The game KNOWS whether the soldier can see the target (you get a flashing indicator if so), and so it would've been trivial to prevent it. Is it something the regular gamer will try? Certainly; therefore it can be considered expected behaviour. Ditto for using the Mind Probe to make attacks without fear of reaction fire; those things aren't cheap, they sell for a bunch, so it stands to reason that they'd have tactical value!<br />
<br />
:: Things like the transfer bug are clear exploits. The devs would've implemented that system so that, if you order personal near the end of the month, you don't end up paying for them twice before they ever arrive - but in the process, they forgot that "purchase" transfers are treated in the same way as "between-base" transfers. To fix one scenario without breaking the other, they'd've needed to code in some extra stuff so the game could tell the difference - they probably just figured the regular gamer would never notice, assuming they ever realised the problem existed.<br />
<br />
:: The "dropping weapons" thing is a little trickier to work out - yes, the devs should've seen it coming, but would it've been easy to fix? Aliens could've been twigged to either ignore un-armed soldiers... but those soldiers could re-equip next turn. Aliens could also've been twigged to attack randomly... but that would make their psi powers far LESS effective! I suppose the fix, if any, would've been unarmed melee attacks, but the implementation they went with seems to be the next best thing IMO.<br />
<br />
:: In regards to the "grenades in inventory" thing, it's probably common knowledge by now, but they DO go off in the alpha of the game. Presumably someone made a conscious decision to change that, though it could still just be an accidental bug. - <span style="font-size:xx-small">&nbsp;[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke|Contribs]])</span> 09:02, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Sniping at aliens is a very bizarre case, since almost all players will fall prey to the aliens sniping at you long before they snipe the aliens. The behaviour of the aliens to step within sight radius, take one step back, then fire without fear of retaliation *looks* and *feels* like clear exploitation of the rules, but the computer can't be a cheater, can it? So we humans carry that one step further. Mind you, I think X-com would be in trouble if the aliens could snipe you from across the map once they know your positions... especially since the aliens have cheating "if I spot 1 human, I spot ALL of them" abilities. Especially on maps where the aliens get Blaster Bombs...<br />
<br />
An interesting note about sniping and LOS: When I first played Xcom, my first mission was in the jungle. Because of all those plants, when my first soldiers spotted an alien, after he shot at him, I tried to make my 2nd soldier open fire and was informed "NO Line of Fire". I could only get my 2nd soldier to fire by positioning him in such a way that I got the flashing number. Henceforth, I assumed that you could ONLY fire at the aliens when the flashing number was there. LOL. LOF. LOS.<br />
<br />
Transfer bug wise, I thought that the devs merely programmed the game to count how many staff were currently in the base, then deduct that from Xcom coffers? As far as ordering personnel near month end goes, you end up paying salary for them if you order them more than 48 hours from month end, right? "realistically", they should make staff draw salaries based on when they were hired, but this would be too much effort.<br />
<br />
"dropping weapons" would have been easy enough to fix... just teach alien AI how to pick up weapons. Like they did in Apocalypse.<br />
<br />
As far as grenade relays go, if you ever join the army, and you toss a live grenade at your squadmate, you're gonna be court martialled! lol. Xcom grenades are weird cause they presumably come with a computer console where you program them or something that takes a lot of TU, if I already have a grenade in my hand I don't think it takes long to prime it compared to throwing it...<br />
<br />
Pretty clear exploit/bug is tossing grenades through the ceiling? That breaks all laws of realism/logic/whatever, and I'm sure the devs didn't plan for THAT to happen! [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:18, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
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: Turns out the "spot one, spot all" thing was wrong all these years. However, units can be "spotted" by sniping an alien, hitting it, but failing to outright kill it; this may have contributed to the misconception.<br />
<br />
: The game considers the base to have the correct amount of personal as soon as you initiate a transfer - if a base has room for ten people, you can't send two groups of ten, as soon as the first is in transit the game will correctly recognise that the destination is now filled up and won't allow you to send any more. Likewise, if you hire soldiers, they'll count towards the allowance of more promotions in your ranks before they ever arrive at a base. That is to say, the payment system deals with personal counts in a different way to every other system in the game, making it look like it's intentional (if badly exploitable) behaviour. In terms of transit times, those seem to vary, I know a purchase of scientists takes 72 hours to arrive.<br />
<br />
: Er, yes, getting aliens to pick up weapons would've indeed fixed the dropping thing. Shoulda thought of that...<br />
<br />
: The grenade thing is indeed unrealistic however you look at it. Certainly throwing the things through ceilings is a bug, and its use is a large exploit. - <span style="font-size:xx-small">&nbsp;[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke|Contribs]])</span> 20:02, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Then how do the aliens "spot" the psi weakling to target him for psi attacks? Doesn't the game ALWAYS start blasting the juiciest target, regardless of LOS? Or is it just coincidence? [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 22:22, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: They really have to "[[UNITPOS.DAT#8|spot]]" the target before they can blast them (however, it appears that later in a campaign this rule gets broken). If they've only spotted a psi-''resistant'' trooper, they typically won't bother to make attacks at all. There's a lot of relevant information in [http://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/Can-alien-attempt-Mind-control-Pani-t8115.html this thread]. - <span style="font-size:xx-small">&nbsp;[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke|Contribs]])</span> 23:28, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Your talking about your post on http://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/Can-alien-attempt-Mind-control-Pani-t8115.html&pid=96123&mode=threaded#entry96123 ? Well, I'd just like to point out a massive flaw in your testing logic. You forgot that aliens will launch psi attacks based on chance of success, and chance of success varies based on distance from aliens. In other words, it could easily be that the aliens only attempted psi when your soldier was within sight of them because your soldier was now NEAR to them and therefore they had a strong chance of success.<br />
<br />
: Also, as you have noted, it appears that your rule gets broken. In fact, it is not uncommon at all for the Ethereal Commander who is boxed up in the Command Center to launch psi attacks on victims who are separated from him by several layers of walls, as long as their proximity to him is near enough. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 21:19, 13 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Those are valid points. I've hence built a somewhat more robust testing scenario, which you may wish to [[:Image:Alien Psi Demonstration 1.rar|try for yourself]].<br />
<br />
:: The save game consists of cloned Ethereal soldiers (all cranked up to 100 psi strength/skill), and many clones of a single trooper (most of whom have the same psi values). The Ethereals are all cooped up in a sealed room in the SW of the map, with a single trooper who has 140 psi strength/skill.<br />
<br />
:: Directly outside the building is another trooper who only has 1 strength/skill. In the NE of the map, in another sealed room, is a soldier with 40 strength/skill. Before placing him there, I had him shoot one of the Ethereals just once, resetting index 8 of his UnitPos record to 0. Only he and the trooper inside the room with the Ethereals have hence been "exposed" to the aliens, but the "best chance of success" is obviously the psi-weakling directly outside the building.<br />
<br />
:: If you load the map and end turn, the aliens will first attempt to take control of the dude on the other side of the map, then get to work on the guy in the room with them. Once they've taken these two, they'll completely ignore all other units.<br />
<br />
:: In short, aliens can't use psi attacks on a unit UNLESS their UnitPos[8] index is set to less then that of the alien's intelligence stat. - <span style="font-size:xx-small">&nbsp;[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke|Contribs]])</span> 05:41, 14 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: Good one. That test definitely proves a lot, rather conclusively. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 06:53, 14 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Bugs vs Limits ==<br />
<br />
''(Discussion continued from [[Talk:Known Bugs#Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested|Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested]])''<br />
<br />
The "Soldier Recruiting Limit" is <b>not</b> a bug, it is a limitation of the game. Therefore, this should be removed from the page. If we want it somewhere else (like a new page such as [[Game Limitations]]), that would be appropriate. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 01:42, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::Not sure that's necessarily the best idea, Zombie, since many of the entries on the Known Bugs article(as well as some entries on the Exploits pages) are limitations of the game engine. On just a brief glance through, the following caught my eye as engine limitations: Manufacturing limit, Storage limit, Purchase limit, 80-item limit, Proximity Grenade limit, Large units not waking up from stun, Interception last shot bug, Alien UFL radar blitz-through bug(Passing through the detection range of a radar before the detection check comes up), Free manufacturing, free wages, UFO Redux, point-scoring with Ctrl-C, permanent MC of chryssalids, Zombie-MC resurrection of agents, alien inventory exploits, anything involved with bad collision detection, extinguishing fire with a Smoke Grenade, and even your personal favorite, denying the aliens access to their own spawn points. So in conclusion, maybe it should just be left as it is; conversely, all of these entries could be kept where they are and also on a Game Limitations page, or we could leave the headers there and link them over to the appropriate topics on Game Limitations. What do you think? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:21, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I agree with AQ (great list of examples by the way - and the Smoke/Fire limit would be another). Many, if not most, of the bugs are "Limitations" but they are logically inconsistent and not what a player would expect to happen: they are imposed by (at best) memory limitations or (at worst) design/programming oversights. I think the easiest thing to do would be to change the title of the page to Known Bugs and Limitations, or put an explanatory note at the beginning of the section to explain that "Bugs" is taken to included "Limitations". [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:16, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
By the strictest sense of meaning, a "bug" is a mistake or error on the programmers part. Limitations imposed <i>by design</i> or memory are not the same creature as the people involved were consciously aware of the decision. I suppose that to the normal player, any type of behavior which is unexpected/unwanted is automatically dumped in the bug category because to them there is no difference. To those of us who study the game files however, the two are unequivalent. Programming oversights, yes, those are bugs.<br />
<br />
Some of those limitations AQ mentions are (to me at least) bugs: free manufacturing, free wages, permanent MC of Cryssies (or actually any alien for that matter), Zombie resurrections and collision detection. Large aliens not waking up from stun is again, a bug. The programmers obviously had some issues when dealing with large units in general and never quite got it right. They made some progress in TFTD by trying to fix mind controlling each section of a large unit, but royally screwed it up by selecting the next 3 entries in UNITPOS.DAT no matter what they pointed to.<br />
<br />
Perhaps it's just my background in logic which makes me want to push for a separate category for limitations. Then again, as long as everything is listed somewhere I'm happy. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 22:06, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Actually, taking a look through the page as a whole there are various other Limits described, and the distinction between Bugs and Limits is made quite rigorously throughout - not just in the Soldier Limits and Bugs section, where the Soldier Recruiting Limit is referred to as a Limit whereas other bugs (such as paying salaries for soldiers you can't recruit) are referred to as Bugs. So we maybe just need to rename the pages "Bugs and Limits" and add an explanatory note on the distinction. From a user point of view, rather than a programmer point of view, a bug is an unexpected (inconsistent or illogical) behaviour, so for that reason I think it makes sense to keep them on the same page but try to ensure they are all correctly classified as Bug or Limit.<br />
<br />
: By the way, it could be hard to absolutely distinguish Bugs from Limits as I suspect there are going to be some grey areas where you would have to second-guess the intentions and decisions of the coders to know for sure if something was a designed-in Limit, or just an oversight (Bug). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 06:50, 10 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::If we distinguish in this manner, I suggest the definition of "Limit" should be, "Something imposed by the game files or engine as a limitation, most likely in context to the capabilites of the then-current personal computer." More succinctly, anything that was done to allow the game to run acceptably on what was then a PC. This would include both the Soldier and 80-Item limits, the spawn limit(40 units per side), Smoke/Fire limit, and some of the others listed. (The Purchase limit was probably more of a convienence for the programmers than anything, but it is clearly an intended feature.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:11, 10 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I would add to this that sometimes a Limit may be imposed as a game design / gameplay decision, rather than in order to conserve a constrained resource in the platform (=PC). Also, I would suggest that ''intended'' Limits are Limits, but ''unintended'' consequences of Limits are Bugs. Obviously, making this distinction involves some guesswork. But I would guess that while the limit on total smoke/fire hexes was an intended Limit (to conserve PC resources), the ability to put out fires with smoke grenades and disperse smoke with IC rounds is probably an unintended consequence of the Limit, and so should probably be considered a Bug. Similarly, Base Defence spawn points are probably an intended limit, but the ability to flood spawn points is an unintended consequence of this, and thus a Bug (and an Exploit). (Spawn points should have been shared out 50/50, not humans-first). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:07, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::The limit on Soldier and Interception craft were probably more of a limit imposed because they capped the file and figured that X-COM wouldn't ever need more than 40 interception craft or 250 soldiers. (And I've never needed that many, case in point.)<br />
<br />
::As for spawns, its actually difficult to take advantage of it in any reasonably established base. X-COM can spawn up to 40 soldiers in a base defense mission(tanks count as 4 soldiers), as a limit of LOC.DAT. Aliens have the same limit. So in order to take advantage of the bug, the base needs 40 or less spawns total. The Access Lift has 8 spawn points, General Stores(weapon-handling) has 11, Living Quarters has 8 more. This is 27 Spawns just getting soldiers in a base and armed. (Although the General Stores can be cut out if you perform the bug properly). Large Radar and HWD have 6 spawns(Small Radar has 2), and Hangar has 15. So overall, the "Spawn prevention" can be hard to take advantage of with all but the smallest bases. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 14:48, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
Just to clarify, X-COM interception craft are not capped at 40 ships. LOC.DAT has a cap of 50 "things" on the geoscape screen at a time. This is shared between X-COM bases, X-COM ships, alien bases, seen or unseen UFO's, terror sites, crash sites, landing sites and waypoints. In a perfect game world with little alien activity and normally constructed bases, the max number of X-COM craft possible is 44: 5 bases with 8 hangars each plus one base with 4 hangars (or any combination thereof). If you illegally modify your base layout with an editor to get rid of the access lift, the max can be increased to 45 ships (9 hangars in 5 bases). Once clogged, all alien activity will cease.<br />
<br />
The base defense limit of 40 units exists because of UNITPOS.DAT which has a cap of 80 entries total (tanks occupy 4 entries in this file). Auto-win missions in a base defense mission by clogging all the spawn points with X-COM units isn't as tough as it sounds, especially if your base is small or doesn't contain hangars. The main thing is getting your full quota of 40 units to spawn (meaning you should try not to have any tanks as they count as 4 units but only occupy one spawn point). This limits the base size to something like 5-6 modules depending on what you build. Still, even having more than 6 modules isn't bad as it forces aliens to spawn intermingled between your troops. With 40 armed guys staring in every direction, you can get positions of all the aliens in the first round and possibly even kill them all (depends on weapons and alien race of course). --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I would say that Limits are the CAUSE of bugs... also, I feel that fire/smoke limit can be called a bug, because a player normally has no way to tell this, other than observation. Whereas the game DIRECTLY and CLEARLY informs you whenever you hit the 80 item or 250 soldier limits, which is more fair. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:22, 23 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
= Specific Bug Discussions =<br />
<br />
== Misc Technical Bug ? ==<br />
<br />
''(The context of this discussion seems to have been lost)''<br />
<br />
This is a technical bug that doesn't happen to everyone and one this article wasn't really meant to chronical - but we won't turn away helping a fellow player if it can't be helped. It's just that there are so many random crash points in this game that it would take far too long to find them all or come up with solutions for them. <br />
<br />
Certainly, the transfer crash can happen to some players, but it's not one that can be reproduced easily. It's just like the random crash that some players get when they research a floater medic. It crashes the game for some of us, but others don't seem to notice it at all. <br />
<br />
It really depends on your hardware and OS setup, whether or not your copy of the game is damaged or your savegame is damaged, etc. <br />
<br />
Does it happen in all games or just this one savegame? <br />
<br />
- [[User:NKF|NKF]] <br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
== "Invisible Muton" bug ==<br />
<br />
Upon shooting repeatedly a Muton, it sometimes plays its "death" animation without sound (as if falling unconscious) and it is no longer displayed in the screen, while remaining visible to my soldiers (I can center the screen and the cursor appears yellow over them). Under this state, they cannot be targeted by Stun Rods. They may play their death animation anytime they get shot, until they truly die, when they emit their characteristic sound and leave a corpse (along with any items carried).<br />
<br />
I'm quite fond of laser weapons, maybe this happens more often with those.<br />
<br />
Also, though I remember experiencing this quite often fighting Mutons, it may happen to any other high health race.--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 02:59, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
Never seen that one myself. Another "unpatched game" thing maybe?<br />
<br />
There's a (very rare) bug that allows your soldiers to live if they become stunned by an explosion that happens to kill them. Sometimes the game will register their death, and THEN register that they've been stunned. In every case I've seen this happen, however, the unit will have such a low amount of health that a single fatal wound will render it dead (again) on the next turn. I have a vague memory that other players may have been able to get a medkit to the scene on time...<br />
<br />
I dunno if that's related to your issue at all (I doubt it, but... meh). I'd advise using a Mind Probe on the alien the next time it happens so you can check the aliens stun/health levels.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure I've seen this with Mutons. Possibly Chrysallids as well, another high health, high armor creature. They were still readily killed by shooting the place they are. Good thought on the MP, BB<br />
<br />
---[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 08:51, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I've been known to have a dying muton(in fire) to spin around and then switch to the female civilian death animation. With the scream and everything. Even got a civilian death registered at the end of the mission. And this didn't just happen once, but on another separate occasion.<br />
<br />
Hmm. shape-shifting reptilians in the game! LOL! Happens alot [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Unusually enough, I once had a sectopod die and then drop a tank corpse. I was using the Lightning at the time for my troop carrier, so you can imagine my surprise. <br />
<br />
Then there was one occasion where a floater dropped a snakeman corpse. Let's not even get into the sort of things the aliens like to stuff themselves with. <br />
<br />
Your invisible alien bug is quite common, although there appears to be many causes for it. I think one involves a full object table when it comes to invisible aliens in bases. But it can also happen in ordinary missions as well. I'm guessing the game may have tried to do something in the wrong order, and sprite information for the unit may have been lost or corrupted along the way. <br />
<br />
Having had an experience where all the chryssalids become invisible in one base defence mission was quite a shocker. I fixed this by saving the game, quitting and then restarting the game. If you ever get an invisible alien again, try this and see if it helps. If it doesn't, well, just keep a careful watch on your map and any alerts that pop up as you play. <br />
<br />
There's a similar but less severe bug where a dead alien will still leave its centre-on-unit alert button, but this goes away shortly after you move or turn. <br />
<br />
- [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
That last bug happens when exploding Cyberdiscs kill nearby Sectoids, doesn't it?--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 23:56, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
This is a pretty easy one. I guess this bug occured on UFO recovery on a battleship, an alien base assault or a base defense mission? As soon as there are too many items on the map, the game saves some item slots for the equipment to be displayed (since it is more valuable and more important to research). This would also make stun weapons lethal if the stunned aliens would vanish. therefore the game has a failsafe if an alien is stunned (or badly wounded and becoming uncontious). The downed alien's stun level is set exactly on its left health points therefore resurrecting it instantly. This cycle is broken when the alien is finally killed. This means if you want to stun an alien in such a situation you have to destroy some items first.<br />
<br />
- by tequilachef (April 4th 2007)<br />
<br />
== Vanishing snakemen ==<br />
<br />
I've known snakemen to become invisible when standing on a hay bale. On the first occassion I had a poor tank getting shot while spending numerous turns looking for it. On the second occasion I had an alien under Psi-control, left it on the hay bale, and couldn't find it next turn. - Egor<br />
<br />
---<br />
<br />
This is not limited to snakemen. Hay bale block visibility quite much when a unit is standing on it. Two possible solutions:<br />
- Destroy the hay before entering<br />
- Shoot at the hay. If it is destroyed any unit on it will become visible (as long as no other bales are blocking the line of sight). You might also hit the enemy directly.<br />
<br />
I Dnt know if the aliens are affected by this diminished sight, too. My guess would be no.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)<br />
<br />
== Blaster Bomb Bug ==<br />
<br />
I'm currently playing through X-com UFO Defense, I have the collectors edition version. I'm in the process of trying to catch a live alien commander and the blaster bomb bug is making this very difficult. If i remember correctly a commander is always in the command center of the the alien bases. The problem is anytime i get close there is always a dude with a blaster launcher up there that tries to kill my troops. When they try to fire it down at me the bug kicks in and they blow up the whole command room and all the aliens in it because they can't figure out how to get the blaster bomb down the grav lift thing in there. This is making it very dificult to actually catch a live commander. Anyone have any ideas for tactics or anything to breach that room without the aliens trying to fire a blaster launcher up there? - eL Hector<br />
<br />
: I can suggest two possible solutions. The first is to wait outside the command room for the alien to move closer to you. If it comes out of the room or if you know it has moved down the lift, you then burst in and stand right next to it to stop it from firing the blaster. This is risky because there could very well be a heavy plasma toting alien in there. The other is to use a small launcher and launch it up at the ceiling near where you think the alien with the blaster is standing. -[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Disappearing Ammunition ==<br />
<br />
I have observed that problem with X-COM 1.2, modded with XCOMUTIL. My stun bombs and heavy rocket missiles, along with clips for the auto cannon went missing.<br />
[[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]<br />
<br />
------<br />
<br />
Just run a test using my 1.4 DOS version with XComUtil but my stun bombs didn't disappear: 30 + 1 back in the base they came from, same number after I went tactical and I dusted-off immediately. Are you running XComUtil with Runxcom.bat or did you simply run Xcusetup?<br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 22:12, 22 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Is it a case of hitting the 80-item limit?--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 12:28, 23 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
------<br />
With runxcomw.bat, as everytime. Apologies, I retested and it seems like I was mistakened, but I could have sworn that I lost them dang stunbombs. Had to manufacture some. I will test some more, using four heavy weapons and seeing whether their ammunition disappears at all. Thanks. [[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]<br />
<br />
==MC at end = MIA?==<br />
<br />
I am sure I have seen this again recently, where I won a mission with no casualties (I thought), but the last thing I killed was a Commander that had been chain MC'ing a psi-attack-magnet trooper, and that trooper was listed as MIA at the end (presumably because he was on the enemy side at the end of combat). Is this a bug, or is there another way to get MIA's on a completed mission that I might have missed?<br />
<br />
Since then I have been waiting for the leaders to panic at the end before killing them (or waiting for a rare resist), so I can safely exit, but am I being overcautious?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 13:45, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
If the trooper was mind controlled on the turn you killed the last alien it will be listed as MIA. No bug there :) <br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 18:16, 1 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
Huh, why would that happen - your soldier should recover the very next round, why would he go MIA?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 18:20, 1 March 2007 (PST)<br />
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Doesn't make sense to me as well but that's how the game works. <br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 15:05, 2 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
It seems that regaining control of units under enemy mind control works different for alien and human players. My guess: aliens under human MC are reverted to alien control AFTER THE ALIEN AND BEFORE THE HUMAN TURN while human units under alien control are reverted RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE HUMAN TURN. This explains three different phenomenons:<br />
<br />
- The discussed MIA "bug" (he unit would be returned in the next human turn, but since it never starts it is lost. The mission is still won since no unit with a "genuine alien" marking is left)<br />
<br />
- The fact that a mission is lost when the last human falls under MC while it is not won when this happens to the last standing alien (the aliens get their unit back before their turn starts and therefore have a unit left to pass the "anyone alive?" check, the humans would have no unit left to start a turn with. They WOULD have as soon as the turn starts, but no unit left before turn means bust)<br />
<br />
- The fact that aliens still can see all an MCed human saw at the end of the human turn that follows the MC while this is not vice versa (The MCed human can give information to the alien side before reverted while an MCed alien is reverted too early). The result is that aliens can control a human indefinitely without having any alien seeing him until the MC is disrupted for one turn.<br />
<br />
All confused? Then I did a good job! No seriously, this must be the explanation, I couldn't think of any other way.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)<br />
<br />
: You're absolutely correct on the first two points. It's a sequence issue - you never get round to recovering the unit before the new turn starts, so you end without any units whatsoever. Makes senses too since the aliens would continue to continue to mind control that same unit over and over indefinitely. <br />
<br />
: The third point however: The aliens don't need to know the location of the last MC'd unit. They know the location of all your troops whether they've seen them or not from the very start. They appear to give you a few turns of grace where they won't attack you outright (unless, from my observation, all your soldiers are incredibly weak). This is evident because all of the aliens will eventually make their way towards the nearest soldier even though their movement pattern may seem semi-random. Also, they know where you are because they can initiate psionic attacks without having seen any of your troops. They generally go after the weakest troops first. <br />
<br />
: Just to add a semi-related point, but from the alien's perspective. If an MC'd alien unit is in the exits when you abort the mission, this alien is not recovered and in fact simply vanishes. Any equipment it was carrying is recovered, unknown artefacts or otherwise. You could possibly think of this as their version of MIA. However, the aliens differ ever so slightly in that if it's the last alien standing and under temporary mind control by the player, the mission doesn't end straight away. But I guess this is only because the player has everything under control, whereas in the other scenario, the Ai is in control. <br />
<br />
: -[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Crash Site in the atlantic ocean ==<br />
<br />
That's right, my game generated a crash site on water. Here are the details:<br />
<br />
- Crash Site a bit southeast of the USA (which was infiltrated a few days before by sectoids, resulting base had already been taken out), but certainly not on land.<br />
<br />
- UFO: battleship, floater, alien harvest<br />
<br />
- Geoscape: 8 X-Com Bases, 1 (known) Alien base, 2 other crash sites, 1 other (known) flying UFO (though almost worldwide decoder coverage), 3 X-Com Crafts out, 1 waypoint<br />
<br />
- Date: January 2000<br />
<br />
- Most Interesting: The Craft that downed the ship was a recently finished Firestorm (first human-alien hybrid craft I had built, I know this is lame for that date. Limited myself on 25 Scientists to improve the challenge) equipped with twin plasma. I had it built and equipped in Antarctica and then transferred to Europe. This base had no Elerium, a fact that enabled me to use the infinite fuel exploit which was in effect when downing the UFO. My craft was only slightly damaged when doing so. The battleship was the first target assigned to the craft, it came directly from my base. <br />
<br />
- When shot down, the UFO was not targetted by any other craft.<br />
<br />
- I had not lost or sold a single craft to that point.<br />
<br />
- When sending a squad to the crash site the game didn't crash but generated a farm land ground combat terrain.<br />
<br />
- I was not able to reproduce the bug from the savegame dated 2 hours before downing the UFO<br />
<br />
Well guys, any intelligent guesses? I still have the savegames (before and after downing)! If you want to have a look, write here.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 5th 2007)<br />
----<br />
: Well I'm sure you know about crash sites that are near land can sometimes actually be on water, so I'm going to assume that this site is well far away from any land mass. Could it be a weird entry in GEODATA\WORLD.DAT that has a land mass out in the ocean? Also are you sure the game didn't crash? Sometimes when it does it will load the previous mission (and usually 90% are at farm terrain). Are you sure it generated a new map and not load the last one?<br />
:No real guesses but maybe some starting points to look at. I've probably stated some obvious situations you know about and have accounted for, but it never hurts to double check :D<br />
- [[User:Pi Masta|Pi Masta]] 14:23, 5 April 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Inconsistencies in MCing Cyberdiscs and Sectopods ==<br />
<br />
I experienced, that when MCing one quadrant of a large terror unit any action it does only affects this quadrant (especially use of time units). That means, when TUs are up for one part, MC another one and continue firing. This however does not work out when moving the unit while it is not under complete control. The TUs used up by the resulting reaction fire from the rest of the unit is also deducted from the TUs "your" part has left (making it impossible for the controlled parts to return fire). This however only happens under reaction fire, not if "your" part fires on it's own. I don't know if this comes up when uncontrolled parts shoot by themselves in the alien turn, since this is hard to find out.<br />
<br />
: That's because large units literally are made up of four separate units. They only share the same set of general stats (in unitref.dat). Unfortunately the 'under mind control flag' is unique to the four units, not the shared stats! So you in effect have multiple units under different control sharing the same stats. So if you move and it results in a reaction from the unit, it will spend the TUs you're using. <br />
: Successful mind control automatically fills up the unit's TUs, so each mind controlled sector gets to move or attack again until there are no more sectors to mind control. Useful way of turning reapers into long range scouts! <br />
: In TFTD, they attempted to fix this bug, but in fact made it much-much worse! The only way to mind control the unit properly is to control the upper left quadrant. Only! Any other quadrant will result in a partial (clockwise) control, and you may gain control of units other than that unit, or may even get into situations where you gain permanent 'partial control' of a large unit you haven't even sited. Wackiness all around! <br />
<br />
:- [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Facility Dismantle Bug ==<br />
<br />
Boba: I've never experienced this bug myself in all my games in the Collectors Edition. It may very well vary from computer to computer. <br />
<br />
-[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
:I, however, have experienced it. I lost an entire month's worth of playtime because I couldn't solve it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]]<br />
<br />
::Anyone, any ideas on why it might vary from PC to PC? -[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]<br />
<br />
:::I'd check other factors before blaming a given system. Assuming no mods are being used the most obvious is the order in which you initiated the construction of the modules. Then we've got which one was due to be completed first, and I'm sure there's a few other things to test out. Usually, a player won't cancel in-progress modules on a regular basis, so you wouldn't expect this bug to turn up often. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Easy way to reproduce: build 2 General Stores. Now delete the "second one" (see offset 16-39 in [[BASE.DAT]] for the order). Wait for the first one to complete. It'll crash immediately after the "end of construction" dialog. A fix is available [[User:Seb76#Bug_Fixes | here]]. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 15:52, 22 July 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Manufacturing Limit Bug ==<br />
<br />
Unfortunately, Mike, no you did not get it correct. It is the raw number of hours needed to complete the project, not the projected hours. I discussed this on the X-Com Forums a few months back at the following link: http://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=242027760&st=0&#entry164411<br />
<br />
I did tests at the time in regard to the accuracy of the data given there, but I've lost the results. I'll quickly redo the tests in the next hour or so. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:00, 8 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Tests complete. The breakpoints for every item were exactly where I predicted, regardless of number of engineers assigned. (I ran up a huge queue of items at my dedicated factory base on an old game, and then assigned whatever engineers would fit onto one project at a time, canceling projects as data was confirmed. This is only semi-random, but it serves our purposes.) I did run into a single issue, though. It appears that despite having 5 empty hangars at a (different!) base, the workshop there could not queue up more than 3 of any one craft at a time, thus making this bug impossible to replicate with the Firestorm or Lightning, as you must be producing more than three for the bug to occur. However, it still works with the Avenger. Later, I shall see about constructing a dedicated Hangar base with 7 hangars in order to attempt to replicate the bug. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:33, 8 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Sounds great, Arrow. Why not post a simple example that shows how the problem works. As in, "with 1 Eng and 2 Avengers you might think X, but no, it's Y". And please delete my example. And it's a fine pleasure to meet you! Cool - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]<br />
<br />
:::When you say the usual resources are used by the "lost" resources, that includes cash, right? It sounds like if you're willing to foot the extra bill [[Buying/Selling/Transferring#Manufacturable_Prices|money/component-wise]], this could be used to build Avengers slightly faster then normal.<br />
<br />
::: The usual time is 34000 hours. Double that and subtract 65535 and you're left with a paltry 2465 hours. Even a single workshop squad of 10 engineers will pull that off in a little over ten days. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Sadly, this exploit doesn't work, because the high bit is stored SOMEWHERE. I lack a hex reader and have no code reading skills to speak of, so I'm a bit limited here. If you set up a Workshop as you described, the game would take all the time for 2 Avengers, all the resources for the same, but in the end only produce 1 Avenger. Meanwhile, I'll run more tests on the resources thing. I could swear it consumes the resources, but I'll double check.<br />
<br />
:::::There is no need to store the high bits if the actual completion condition (assuming adequate money) is "number made is number ordered", which wouldn't reference the hours remaining at all. - [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 01:49, 9 Oct 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::::Tests done; I was unable to replicate the 'disappearing item' trick,(Which I didn't test for last night) even with Avengers! It appears I was wrong; this still counts as a bug, though, because the wraparound is a problem.<br />
<br />
::::Ironic that so much of this discussion centers around Avengers, because that's where I discovered this in the first place! [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:48, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I'm revisiting XCOM and was working on [[Manufacturing Profitability]]... Arrow, can you (or anyone else) say a little bit more on the Known Bugs page about this [[Known_Bugs#Manufacturing_Limit_Bug]]? It's not clear to me exactly what the bug does, except that it understates hours. Is that all?... does it still take the (non-buggy) amount of time, still use all the same resources, still make the same number, etc.? It sounds like it could be a drastic bug - or is it only a very superficial one, a display bug for the hours? It sounds like you're leaning toward this latter.<br />
<br />
Also on a semi-related note... I could swear I saw much more detailed info on the [[Known_Bugs#Facility_Maintenance_Costs]] issue... IIRC, the incorrect amount that's charged for maintenance, depends on exactly where a facility is in the base. IOW, different "rows" of the base cost different amounts. Could somebody provide a link there, and/or flesh the bug out better?<br />
<br />
Thanks! - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 11:22, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I've actually seen the bug work both ways, but I've only been able to actually replicate the more superficial version of the bug. So the bug report up is about a superficial bug that drastically understates production time. If you wish to make this clearer, you have my blessings. As well, that 'different charging based on location' is dealt with here: http://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Base_Facilities ; however, the table has been broken with the Wikiupgrade, and I lack sufficient knowledge of HTML table code to fix it. But it should be of use to you. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 11:26, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Cool, I fixed [[Talk:Base Facilities]] but also re-organized and expanded [[Base Facilities]] so that it includes that bug in detail, as per Talk... this is an important issue that should be up front. I see that there's a separate [[Maintenance costs]] page, but I can't see having something so important (the maintenance bug explanation) all on its own page (which makes for a rather short page) rather than together with all the rest of the base facility info. If others agree (or don't care), I'll move anything remaining on Maintenance Costs to the Base Facilities page, then delete Maintenance Costs and re-route links. And if somebody does care, then please move my new section to Maintenance Costs, and move all the links, etc. Oh also I put in more words on your Manufacturing Limit Bug - how does it look? - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 16:37, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Looks pretty good, although it'll wrap fully; if you ask for 120000 hours, it won't be displaying 'almost no' time. The way I discovered it was when building two Avengers; I ordered two, paid for two, waited for two...and got one. But as said, haven't managed to repeat it, so until I do, we'll leave it like that. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I just revised and put in your specific example, because it's certainly possible some of us die-hard players will order up more than 1 Avenger at a time - and it's guaranteed it'd be a pain if 1 of them disappeared, laugh. I wasn't sure how concrete you were on that example but now I hear you say, you are sure it happened at least once. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 18:33, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I have a question concerning the manufacturing "bug" which eats a craft in production due to wrap-over of the byte. Arrow (or whoever did the test), did you have a large quantity of craft already built at your bases? If so, I think this bug has more to deal with clogging up [[CRAFT.DAT]]. See, that file has a limit of 50 entries. Each craft takes up one record and each base you have built also consumes one spot. 8 bases allows 42 craft to be housed, while 6 bases allow 44. If you try to buy or manufacture craft once the file is full, nothing shows up in the game even if you have hangar space available. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 19:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Huh, I never knew that. I don't see it listed on the Bugs page... I'll stick it in there. I've never approached that number, but some folks might. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 19:07, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I was able to continue building other Avengers after that project, and they appeared correctly, so I do not believe that is the issue. In any event, I have a very bad case of 'archivism' and probably still have the save game and the CRAFT.DAT file around on my system; in fact, I think I was playing it a few days ago. I can see if I can find it and upload it; it created a 'hole' in the Avenger fleet numbers, where Avenger's x and x+2 were built, but x+1 was not. I'll look for it tonight and tomorrow and upload it to the wiki if I find it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:10, 8 October 2007 (PDT) EDIT: I found the file; I have 28 Avengers and 1 Skyranger in my employ. All Avenger numbers EXCEPT #2(Avenger-2) are accounted for, and I have not sacked or lost any Avengers. So this is where the hole and 'eaten' Avenger is. If anyone wants the CRAFT.DAT file from this game, I'd be happy to forward it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:20, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Sure, send it my way and I'll take a look at it. (Might as well send me the whole saved game as I may want to look at the other files too). I have tried to recreate this bug by manufacturing 1, 2 and 3 Avengers at a clip but all of them always show up. Don't know what else I could do to get this problem to crop up. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:32, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:File emailed. On the side, I've tried the same thing, and never been able to repeat the bug. It's been months since the first discovery, so I can't recall whether it was the first or the second Avenger that didn't appear. So maybe it was just a fluke. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:57, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Unconscious Enemy in Equipment Screen ==<br />
<br />
The following happened to me repeatedly over the last few days.<br />
<br />
In the last tactical Mission a live alien has been captured. When now beginning an UFO crash recovery mission this type of alien (same race and rank) appears in the equipment screen before the mission starts, meaning I can give it to any of my soldiers.<br />
If I do so I can store the alien in the skyranger for the duration of the mission and, if it gains consciousness, kill or stun it at the end of it. A pile of equipment without a corpse will be in the UFO, indicating that the stunned alien is not some kind of duplicate but instead has been taken from the aliens of this mission. This is supported by the fact that in those missions the maximum number of crew members has not been surpassed.<br />
If I do not do so the Alien will be placed in the crashed UFO. Whether it is unconscious or not I do not know, but the fact that it is completely disarmed when encountered in the battle suggests that it is.<br />
<br />
So far it seems the following is necessary for the bug to occur:<br />
# An alien has to be captured alive in the last tactical combat<br />
# It has to be of the same race and rank as one of the aliens in the new tactical combat<br />
<br />
So far this only worked...:<br />
# If the new tactical combat was an UFO crash recovery of a medium scout.<br />
# For floaters and mutons<br />
# For soldiers and navigators<br />
# If the alien in the last mission was stunned by normal weapon fire (although I do not think this is important) and not picked up (again, not likely to be important) or destroyed (which would mean it has to be actually captured)<br />
<br />
It seems NOT to depend on the following:<br />
# The type of the last mission (were, so far: Ground assault battleship, crash recovery large scout, base defense)<br />
# Which squad or vessel was involved capturing the alien<br />
# Where it is locked up<br />
# If it has been transferred since capture or not<br />
<br />
Would be interesting to know:<br />
# What happens if the alien in the inventory screen is the only survivor<br />
# If the alien in the invenory screen is one of the aliens randomly killed in the crash or not (it is likely to be one of the killed aliens, so far the equipment piles were always within the UFO)<br />
# If this is not limited on crashed medium scouts: Does this work with terror units? What about large ones?<br />
<br />
Maybe this is related to the proximity grenade bug (transfer of item properties to next tactical combat).<br />
<br />
Additionally, in one of those mission a part of the terrain was not generated correctly. It was in farm terrain (The house on the right square, or north east square, in [[Image:Terrain-cult.gif|this pic]]). The outer wall right to the right window of the southern wall (1st Floor) was missing. Directly outside of the hole was a floor tile. I could walk a soldier through the wall, but he fell right through the tile. Dunno if this has to do with the stunned alien bug.<br />
<br />
Version is collectors edition (the one from abandonia.com).<br />
<br />
----------------<br />
<br />
When a mission starts, the GeoScape engine generates the unit and object tables (in MissDat's [[OBPOSREF.DAT]], [[UNIPOS.DAT]], and [[UNIREF.DAT]]) before "shutting down". The Tactical engine then generates the maps, places the aliens on it, and blows up the UFO (if need be). Whether or not map generation and the subsequent events happen before you equip your soldiers I don't yet know.<br />
<br />
The test would be to check the aforementioned files to see if they contain an unconcious alien, and/or the body.<br />
<br />
Note that you can't see the bodies of large units on the ground (they count as four seperate objects covering four seperate tiles, so allowing the user to pick one up would essentially let you rip them apart).<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 06:35, 5 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----------------<br />
<br />
I honestly have no idea of how all those files work. But I still have a savegame in battlescape that is in one of those missions. So if anyone wants to have a look at those files...<br />
<br />
I forgot to mention: I reloaded a geoscape savegame shortly before the battle to recreate the bug, but it seems that reloading in geoscape before the buggy battle eliminates the bug. I guess his should narrow down the possible reasons...<br />
<br />
--------<br />
<br />
Next time it happens, backup the aforementioned files before you start another mission. I'm afraid a savegame wouldn't be of much help.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 00:54, 7 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Soldiers moved to outside of combat screen ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I've got a DOS version of UFO:EU, and I've encountered a bug in the tactical combat. Sometimes (rarely) a X-COM soldier changes its location on the map on player's turn start and is placed on outside of the map, one tile north from the (north) border of the field. AFAIR the unit is then selectable (you get the flashing highlight when cursor is above), but is stuck outside of the field. Has anybody encountered this bug? It seems to happen randomly, but more frequently during the terror missions and on early turns (so maybe it's caused by high number of player/alien/civilian units?). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 08:16, 3 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I've never encountered this bug in CE of UFO. Presuming AFAIR means "As Far As I Recall," what exactly was the soldier doing? Any equipment data, location, or stat info might help us pin it down. Were afflicted soldiers always carrying a specific equipment set or weapon? Where were they on the map before they got moved? Did they get bumped a few spaces, or teleported halfway across the Battlescape? Does it happen more often on a specific difficulty?(Your theory would suggest this would happen most commonly on Superhuman) Against a certain type of alien? Best of all, if you can recreate the situation in a game, save the game and then you could upload the save file to the forums or this wiki, and the rest of us could take a look for ourselves and the code divers could root around for the cause. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:03, 3 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: I've had this happen to me several times in UFO and TFTD. I don't know if it's specific to the Dos version or if it can happen in the CE as well. Sometimes the soldier ends up beyond the boundary of the map right at the start of the mission, at other times it happens after you load a game. This game is glitchy, which is the source for so many of its bugs, so your soldier's coordinates are probably getting corrupted to the point where they are -1 on either the X or Y axis of the maps's normal boundaries. For me it's commonly along the top edge of the map. I don't ever recall it happening mid-mission, only at the start or after a load. I cannot faithfully say whether it happened with or without XComutil, but that could be one of the possibly many causes for this. - [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
:: I don't play UFO often, so I rely on just several campaigns played. This happens rarely (I've encountered this bug twice in my last campaign with ~80 missions played), but if you haven't seen this happen then it probably doesn't show up in the CE edition. In my experience the soldier is moved always beyond the north/top map border. I think (but I'm not sure) that this affects the first soldier from the team more commonly than others (or maybe even exclusevily?). The equipment/armor carried is probably not relevant, since the units moved this way don't have any special stuff, and this bug shows up on different stages of the gameplay (ie. sometimes when you have ordinary rifles, sometimes when all your units got heavy plasmas and power suits). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 04:12, 4 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
'''MY ramblings have been moved to my discussion page''' [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]<br />
<br />
==Great Circle Route==<br />
<br />
Should we have the Great Circle Route bug noted on this page at all? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 20:33, 6 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: what is the great circle route? [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 07:56, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Pick two points on a globe, then hold a thread or string taut at those two points. That practically minimizes the length of the thread/string on the globe. You're now looking at a great circle arc (or route), the shortest distance between two points on a globe. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 11:15 March 2009 (CDT)<br />
<br />
: Just as a line is the shortest distance between 2 points on a flat plane, a great circle is the shortest distance between 2 points on the surface of a sphere. The bug, by the way, is that aircraft in the game ''don't'' follow this shortest, "great circle" route. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:38, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: What a grand sounding name, for something so simple, lol. ... I thought you were talking about when you tell your soldiers to go from point A to point B, and for some reason they figure that Zone A and Zone B are really far apart, despite actually being side by side. (I shot a hole through a wall, clicked to walk to the other side, and my idiot soldier walked one big circle... to use the door! And got ambushed and killed by an alien. ... dum dum DUMB DUMB.)<br />
:: Even the more modern games have problems with their pathfinding algorythms. Admittedly, games like Baldur's Gate had to do it in realtime.<br />
:: On a semi-related note, I remember this guy called E-man, he was chasing a guided laser beam that was going to kill his girl, around the world, but he couldn't outrun it since he couldn't break the speed of light, only equal it by changing into a Laser himself. So... inspiration! He turned into a very powerful laser, and made a shortcut THROUGH THE EARTH... the straight line beats the great circle route, lol.<br />
:: Thanks for the reply guys [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:56, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Bug not listed: Missing soldiers during base defense==<br />
<br />
I encountered an interesting bug concerning base defense missions:<br />
My base got attacked while about 30 soldiers and 10 HWPs were present. The usual equipment assignment screen was skipped and the mission started instantly with only the HWPs spawned at the map. Not even a single soldier bothered to show up... *sigh*<br />
Although this turned out to be in my favor (you should have seen the puzzled Ethereals trying to panic my tanks) I´d like to avoid this bug if possible. I was able to reproduce this bug several times and with different bases. <br />
Can anyone explain this bug and/or tell me how to avoid it?<br />
<br />
Game version: Collectors edition. - [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
Well, ideally, we need to know what your base's construction was to be sure of this, but I think the most likely circumstance is that the HWPs took up all the spawn points. HWPs have maximum priority for spawning(followed by Soldiers, and then Aliens), so if you have enough of them garrisoning a base, it's entirely possible that soldiers and aliens won't spawn. However, this doesn't explain why the soldiers didn't start stealing the Alien spawn points...in any event, you might want to take the save game file, zip it up, and get ready to email it. I'm sure [[User:Zombie|Zombie]] would be quite interested. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:28, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
It's not the spawn points, it's a [[UNITPOS.DAT]] limitation. A maximum of forty records (out of the total of eighty) are allocated for your units, and tanks (which take up four records each) get first pick. Having ten tanks means there's no room left for anything else.<br />
<br />
Ditch one HWP and you should see four units take it's place. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 16:42, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
I´ll try with a decreasing number of tanks and report the results. As I wrote above having only HWPs isn´t too bad dependent on what enemy is attacking. [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
This should be mentioned in the [[ExploitsE#Base Defence Mission Spawning Issues]] section. The Bugs/Exploits really need to be sorted and consolidated. - [[User:NinthRank|NinthRank]] 16:57, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
The limitation to 40 records seems to be the case; each tank I dumped got replaced by four soldiers. <br />
So this can be used to effectively manage unit combination. Thanks for the quick replies! [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
==Bug not listed: Ufo Gold (Windows Vers. abandonia.com) crashing when plasma defense is finished==<br />
<br />
I recordnized this bug a few times now. (with hacked AND unhacked game)<br />
If i place a plasma defense in 7 bases at the same Time and they are finished at the same Time, the game crashes sometimes.<br />
In hacked game, it seems to crash even more when Alien containment is finished, plasma defense, shield defense...etc.<br />
couldnt find it here...greetz<br />
<br />
: I somehow doubt the sourcing is the issue. [You may want to fund the next XCOM series game with a Take2 re-release of UFO :)] More generally: the game only reports the construction of a given type of facility <b>once</b>, no matter how many bases it completes at simultaneously. I've only tested this <i>in vivo</i> with three-of-a-kind at once across six bases, however. It does seem reasonable that some sort of counter of undisplayed completions would "overflow" (attaining crash). -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 10:05, Feb. 28 2008 CST<br />
<br />
::I've encountered this bug myself with General Stores, actually, not just Plasma Defense(which I never build). EDIT: Some quick tests seem to show that there's a chance the game will crash any time two base facilities are done at the same time, regardless of whether they're in the same base or not or if they're the same facility.(although it seems to happen MUCH more in the event they're in different bases.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:13, 28 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested ==<br />
<br />
Just to note that I have positively tested and replicated the bugs listed under the new(ish) section [[Known Bugs#Soldier Recruiting Bugs|Soldier Recruiting Bugs]]. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:08, 19 March 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Floater Medic Bug==<br />
<br />
I have not thus far encountered the Floater Medic Bug; in fact, Floater Medics are often used to fill up my Rogue Gallery with interrogations. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:50, 24 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Strange, it would always occur in my version. I don't remember where I got it from, but I<br />
know it was a download from the internet. Using the XCom Hack v2.5, I viewed the alien in<br />
the Alien Containment edit. I now have Type (race):____, and a Rank: Soldier for the <br />
Floater Medic. It might just be corruption, but I do not have the resources to look into<br />
it. [[User:Muton commander|Muton commander]] 19:24, 12 May 2008 (Pacific Time Zone)<br />
<br />
I've never encountered it either. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 07:47, 23 July 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Strength Overflow==<br />
<br />
During one of my games with TFTD I noticed a really annoying thing happen during battles.<br />
As my troops rose up the 'stat.' ladder they got better and better (as you'd expect), until they hit about 50 strentgh and completely lost the ability to throw anything.<br />
Even trying to throw something tiny like a grenade or flare into the adjacent tile resulted in the 'Out of Range' message being displayed.<br />
<br />
Anyone come across this before?<br />
This was in TFTD CE.<br />
[[User:Tifi|Tifi]] 07:55, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:This is fairly well documented. The pathfinding algorithm for throwing objects will balk if anything is in the way of the throw and refuse to allow you to throw. What's happening is that your soldiers have become so strong that their throws are intercepting the 'ceiling' of the Battlescape(the top of L3), and as such the game thinks that the throw is blocked(because in order for the throw to complete, the object would have to be tossed up to the nonexistant L4). There's two ways around this:<br />
<br />
:The Normal Way: Try shorter throws, throwing from lower heights, or throwing while kneeling. Beyond that, possibly get some new troops.<br />
<br />
:The Sneaky Way: Manually edit the Strength scores of your soldiers in [[SOLDIER.DAT]] so that they're back to a usable strength level. If you set "Initial Strength" (offset 46 decimal or 2E hex) to 0 and "Strength Improvement" (offset 57 decimal or 39 hex) to a value of 50, you can permanently lock the soldiers at 50 strength. (You can lock them higher than that if you so choose, but not lower.<br />
<br />
:Other than this, there's no workarounds I can think of offhand. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 08:10, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: There's normally no problem with the max level of 70 in open settings. However TFTD has a lot of low ceilings such as in the shipping lane missions and colonies, and the lower ceilings impairs your throwing quite a bit. In addition to shorter throws/kneeling, try moving out from under any overhangs if there is one just above you. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 12:33, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Bug not listed: Sticking your head through the ceiling ==<br />
This is something I just discovered: When you step on a small object inside of a building your soldier sticks his/her head through the ceiling and can see what's upstairs. You can even see the soldiers head coming out of the floor and that soldiers can shoot aliens upstairs. When I did this the alien I saw/shot was facing the other way, but I guess you could get shot if the alien was facing you. [[User:RedNifre|RedNifre]] 17:34, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:That's not listed under "Bugs" because it's covered under "Exploits", right here: [[Exploiting_Collison_Detection#See_Through_A_Ceiling]] [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:26, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: I don't know if it was ever covered anywhere, but there's this neat trick that might sound similar to the walk-through-'wall object'-wall trick except that it involves your unit climbing slopes. They'll appear as though they've gone up a level, but are actually not on that level. They only visually appear to be there, but are really still on the bottom level. <br />
<br />
:: It happens a lot when walking up the desert or forest slopes. I think the trick involves standing on ground level, and then ordering the unit to 'move' into the hill rather than setting the waypoint while on level 1. The soldier will move up the slope and perhaps stop on the slope or even reach the top of the slope, but will still appear when you're only viewing the ground map layer. The soldier is really still on the ground level, but will have elevation offset. <br />
<br />
:: One really interesting way of using this trick is in the mountain region. If you can find a cliff face and a low hill nearby, you can literally have your soldier scale the cliff by standing the soldier on the hill, and then walking towards the cliff. It's ridiculous, but your soldier never quite reaches the top of the cliff tiles, so ends up walking up a slope. <br />
<br />
:: On a side note, standing at the top of the ramp of the Skyranger is the same as standing on ground level - you're only offset a bit. This means that smoke on level 1 and the sides of the Skyranger will not provide protection when you're at the top of the ramp. <br />
<br />
:: On another related note in relation: In TFTD (doesn't happen a lot in UFO), you might find it difficult to toss grenades onto underwater slopes. To remedy this, raise the level up by one. It might look like you're tossing at air(and you are), but it'll get the grenade where you want it. Odd, but true. I must remember to put this in the grenade explanation section. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:11, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Base Defence bug that causes a crash? ==<br />
<br />
Does anyone know about a bug in a base defence mission that causes the game to crash? The game keeps crashing on the 4th or 5th alien turn.<br />
<br />
:I've encountered that myself, but it should be noted that overall, X-COM is not the most stable game and is prone to crashing often at anytime. The differences between the hardware it was designed for and the hardware we're running it on cannot be helping matters at all; it's really a small miracle it even runs without an emulator in the first place(I've got games from 1999 that will bluescreen my machine instantly). As such, I'm not sure it's worth noting as a bug, since it's a 'game feature'(albeit a detrimental one). In any case, what're you doing letting the aliens attack you anyways? ;) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:33, 18 July 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Sources for a DOS4GW transplant ==<br />
<br />
I was specifically thinking of the LucasArts Dark Forces demo, but I half-recall the actual source I used when testing that ~1999 was Id's DOOM. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 16:03, 7 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Phantom Carried Casualty ==<br />
<br />
You are carrying an unconscious soldier in one hand, and the soldier dies of his/her wounds. The dead soldier remains visible on the "left hand / right hand object" battlescape display, but is no longer visible in the inventory display. The problem can be fixed by moving another object into the same hand. <br />
<br />
I've seen this bug with UFO Extender by [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] - possibly might be something to do with his manipulation of the inventory screen, rather than a general bug. I believe I've also seen this with other objects that were being carried in the hands, disappearing from the Inventory screen, but I'm not sure. I don't think it's an item limit bug, as XcomUtil shows 40 item slots free. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:58, 21 September 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Civilians As Enemies to MC'd Aliens ==<br />
<br />
I ran across this issue a few times and just wondered if you guys experienced this. I MC'd a part of a Reaper (I always do the lower left for large aliens) on a Terror Site, then moved it a few squares. It suddenly stopped dead in it's tracks and then the alien spotted indicator increased by 1. When I clicked on the indicator to see where the enemy unit was, it brought me to L2 of the large apartment complex. However, nothing was there. When I sent a Flying-Suited soldier up there to peek in the window (eeek! A peeping tom!) he saw a female civilian standing there. This type of problem has happened numerous times to me so it's not a once-off thing. Maybe it's a LOS issue? Or maybe an alien indicator problem? Or a combination of the two? Don't know, but I'm curious if you guys have seen it. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 23:40, 19 December 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:There are a lot of major issues with MC'ing 4 square aliens. One of them being that you could accidentally MC an alien far off in the corner of the map, IIRC? Anyhow, maybe you should have tried MC'ing all 4 squares of the reaper and see if that changed things. -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]<br />
<br />
The long-range MC of other aliens when Mind-Controlling large aliens is only present in Terror From The Deep, due to a workaround to try and resolve the earlier bugs(and exploits) associated with controlling one square of a large unit at the time. In TFTD, successfully MC'ing part of a Large unit will also grant you control of the next three units in UNITPOS.DAT, in order. If you didn't MC the upper left portion of the large unit(the first UNITPOS entry for any large unit), you can potentially wind up in control of other aliens. So this doesn't apply to UFO. As for Zombie's issue, never seen it. And finally...Jasonred, on Talk pages, please indent your statement with colons so it differentiates from other people's comments, and sign your posts with 4 ~'s, like I will now do. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:42, 19 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
==Elerium Base Bug==<br />
<br />
Jasonred: This bug has long since been known about. Elerium units on the Battlescape can be picked up by shooting away the power source; this one item counts as 50 units, and as such ANY elerium item spawned on any Battlescape counts as 50 Elerium. This issue with your own Elerium spawning as collectable loot in a Base Defense mission only occurs in older DOS versions, and is at the whim of the 80 item limit. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:55, 18 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Base defense does not seem to follow the 80 item limit in that DOS version. There are a lot of bugs that have long been known about. However this one was not included in the ufopedia for some reason.<br />
:Also, the main thing about this bug is that it does not potentially double your elerium stores. It potentially multiplies them 50 times.<br />
:... First time this happened to me, I was pretty flabbergasted. Here I was being conservative with my limited Elerium, refraining from blowing up UFOs when possible, when I perform a base defense and gain 3000 Elerium from it. Holy spit. -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]<br />
<br />
Alright, my error. Thanks for clarifying. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:42, 19 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
==HWP Fusion Bomb and SWS PWT Displacer Ammo Manufacturing Cost Bug==<br />
<br />
At a cost of $15000, 400 Tech hours, 5 Zrbite, and 8 Aqua Plastics, this is the exact same cost as the HWP Fusion Bomb from X-COM EU, converted over to the equivalent TFTD resources. As such, it shouldn't be counted as a bug, since it is clearly what Mythos intended. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 09:55, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Hmm, in that case maybe it should be treated as a generic game engine issue and not a TFTD specific issue - but I still think it's a design error. Can you think of any logical reason why the SWS/HWP version of the ammo should be more expensive (in cost and in materials) than both the craft ammo and the (more powerful) personal ammo? It makes no logical sense. Hence I think it's a design error. Nothing can be inferred from the fact it's unchanged from XCOM-EU, that doesn't imply any deliberate decision. It could just be the replication of an original error in XCOM-EU. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 11:17, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: I can think of a logical reason to justify this: X-Com doesn't understand the technology as well as the aliens do (which is obvious, given the length of time each side has known the tech). Handheld Blaster/Blaster Bombs are just a copy of the alien design and therefor relatively cheap and efficient, but that can't be mounted on a turret. So X-Com has to make a new design, and they obviously didn't do that good a job as the aliens would have done. This explains Tank/Plasma being weaker than Heavy Plasma too. (Why is FBL Craft ammo cheaper than the tank ammo though? Maybe X-Com gave up on/simplified the guidance system and made it just a "dumb" cannon shell/torpedo instead which doesn't have multiple waypoints? Or maybe they just did a better job there?). [[User:Cesium|Cesium]] 04:07, 25 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Whilst we discuss it, I'll park my original text in here:<br />
<br />
* ''Displacer/PWT ammo cost bug - at over $100,000 total cost per round, the ammunition for this SWS weapon is far more expensive to manufacture (both in money and rare materials) than the equivalent ammo for the Aquanaut-carried Disruptor Pulse Launcher, or the craft-based Pulse Wave Torpedo, despite being less powerful than either. This would seem to be a design mistake.''<br />
<br />
See Also [[Talk:Displacer/PWT]]<br />
<br />
:: I don't like the higher cost either, but I think it's a tradeoff of expense and quality for the convenience of portability. Sort of like an MP3 player to the gramophone... or maybe that's not a good comparison. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 13:43, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
A better comparison might be a desktop computer to a laptop. As a general rule, laptops are more expensive, but a similarly priced desktop gives you more power. Desktops are cheaper and offer power, laptops are more expensive and offer portability(though the gap is rapidly narrowing). [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:49, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:I think those are good analogies. But they don't apply in this case. To continue your analogies: We are paying mainframe prices for a clunky desktop that has only laptop processing power, and we're buying a mainframe for desktop prices. The vehicle version ("desktop") - is ''less'' portable and ''less'' powerful than the personal version (DPL = "laptop"), ''less'' capable than the craft version ("mainframe") - and costs ''more'' than either of the others in total cash and in materials. In particular, it makes no sense that the small missiles on the SWS use up ''more'' of both Zrbite and Aqua Plastics than the Craft version. Do we really think it's logical that a tactical battlefield round, less powerful than its man-carried equivalent, takes more explosive and structural material to produce than both the more powerful man-carried version and also more than the air-to-air round that has 60km range and can take down a major alien combat craft? There is a clearly perverse bang-per-buck here, on every measure. My sincere belief is that this was an original mistake in the XCOM-EU engine that got copied into TFTD as well. The craft round should have the higher base price, but the material requirements that are currently assigned to the SWS/HWP round. It's debatable whether the SWS/HWP rounds should be more expensive than the man-carried rounds. But what I don't think is debatable is that is not logical for the SWS/HWP rounds to be more expensive than the craft rounds. It's clearly a mistake. Even in game balance terms, the only thing the HWP/SWS rounds have going for them is conserving "80-Item Limit" space, which I severely doubt was ever a game design consideration since it's just an awkward programming compromise. Any advantage inherent in the HWP/SWS is already reflected in the very high platform cost - there is no need to inflate the ammo costs as well. The bottom line is that a round for a (mini-)tank does not cost more, does not use more materials, than the same type of round for a long range anti-aircraft weapon that has much greater damage capacity and penetrating capacity. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:35, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
I'm going to add this to the bug list now. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 16:06, 25 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Still don't think this is a bug though. Just because it's more expensive to manufacture than the hand-held or craft-mounted ammo, it doesn't mean the stats are wrong. Perhaps the programmers wanted to balance the tactical portion of the game a little more by making the ammo cost more for tanks. It doesn't have to be logical to be intended. Now if you had proof which said that the ammo was supposed to cost less but the stats were wrong, then yes, I'd agree. So if you boil it all down it comes to a disparate logic issue, not a bug.--[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:31, 25 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
::I have to side with Zombie here. While the ammo may be disproportionately expensive, by the definition used on the rest of the page for bug, it doesn't fit. All the other bugs are errors in program logic or function or routines that are unintentional problems with the game, most of which are not warned of ahead of time. The ammo for the tank costs exactly what is listed and operates entirely as intended, whereas the rest of the bugs are not intended game features. Even if the numbers were entered wrong, that would be a data entry error, not a program bug. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:28, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:If it was a data entry error, I'd consider that a type of bug... assuming we had proof of the goof so to speak. LOL. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 00:49, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: It feels too specific an entry to be a data entry error. <br />
<br />
:: I'm reminded of the high explosive. I know, I know - it's not an exact parallel to the FBL issue. A High Explosive is practically two grenades. Double weight, double bulk. Slightly above two times the damage. However, it costs five times the price of a standard grenade. Even though you're paying more for not-as-much, I don't think that could be considered a bug. A rip off, yes, but not a bug. <br />
<br />
:: Here's a thought: Think about the immediate benefits each of the two controversial ammo types give back to you. Aircraft ammo = activity points. Tank ammo = loot. Yes, I know that aircraft ammo also generate crash sites, but you still have the ground combat to contend with. <br />
<br />
:: One other thought: With careful management of your ammo, you'll probably never spend any elerium on the handheld version's ammo. Could it be the handheld that's really at issue here rather than the others? In the end I feel that it doesn't really matter. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:38, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I'm with Zombie that a data entry error is a bug (we have other examples), but also agree some proof is probably needed. And I agree with NKF that in the scheme of things, it doesn't really matter much. I don't think the HE pack is a good comparison (though the HE pack should be heavier) as it's reasonable to pay disprortionately more to get additional power at the same tech level. The fusion weapons are a case of paying more to actually get ''less'' power. I am not bothered by the handheld vs vehicle balance, not least because the game generally makes handheld weapons better than their vehicle equivalents, so I can accept that as an across-the-board design decision. <br />
<br />
: I can also see a game balance argument ''if'' we believe that Fusion Tank ammo is more of an overall game-winning weapon than craft Fusion Bombs. But I'm not sure I agree with that statement. And even if it's true, and there's a game balance argument (in which case it would apply equally to handheld Fusion launchers), it's still illogical. The less powerful, battlefield warhead should not cost massively more in exotic materials than the much more powerful air to air warhead that brings down Battleships. I agree though that just because it's illogical does not prove it's a bug (i.e. unintended). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 07:48, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
Ok we more or less seem to be in agreement that this isn't a bug, but it is very confusing/illogical. Maybe we can shift the "bug" text from the article page and roll that into the [[Hovertank/Launcher]] and [[Displacer /P. W. T.]] pages now. Feel free to combine any text from the discussion above if necessary. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 09:22, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Unless we can ''prove'' it's a data entry error (unlikely), how about calling it an "Anomaly" instead of a bug? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 10:59, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
Looks like plain old game imbalance to me.<br />
The way I see it, Hovertank Plasma and Launcher were meant to be stronger. Much much stronger. Let's look at Tank Cannon, Launcher and Laser. The logic is that it's a tank mounted weapon, so the tank can carry a much larger and more powerful version of the same weapon, right?<br />
It's pretty stupid that a Hovertank Plasma is weaker than the Heavy Plasma... you could just mount a Heavy Plasma on a Hovertank and get them exactly equal. In fact, I suspect that the hovertanks were ALSO meant to have more powerful weapons than the man-portable versions.<br />
Unfortunatly, the game designers then realised that this made the hovertanks far too powerful. So... the programmers nerfed the power of the hovertank weapons. BUT they forgot to lower the ammo costs. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 11:20, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Well you are opening up a much larger issue there. The Fusion weapons are an anomaly, an inconsistency. But handheld weapons are more powerful than equivalent vehicle weapons across the board, consistently. So that looks like a deliberate design decision, not a mistake. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:33, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: There are two exceptions to the rule: Tank/Cannon: 60AP vs. Heavy Cannon 56AP. Tank/Laser: 110 Laser vs. Heavy Laser: 85 Laser. The hovertank\plasma only differs by a measly 5 (an extra 0 - 10 damage, which means a lot vs. UFO inner hull armour). I guess the trend here was to moderate the area effect tank strengths. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:22, 26 February 2009 (CST) <br />
<br />
I'd have to agree with you there Spike. This wasn't a mistake, however odd it may seem. It was a deliberate attempt to try and balance the game. Below is a table I created ages ago for my (now defunct) strategy guide detailing the HWP's and what handheld weapon corresponds to it. When you stick them side-by-side, it really becomes apparent that the programmers were trying to base the HWP weapons off the handheld weapons somewhat. The only thing that doesn't follow a nice and distinct scheme is the damage. That's what is the clincher. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:26, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br><br />
<table {{StdCenterTable}} class="sortable"><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left" width="150">Tank Type</th><th width="70">DAM</th><th width="80">Snap</th><th width="90">Aimed</th><th width="90">Aimed</th><th width="80">Snap</th><th width="70">DAM</th><th align="right" width="140">Handheld</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Tank/Cannon</th><td>60</td><td>60%</td><td>90%</td><td>90%</td><td>60%</td><td>56<sup>1</sup></td><th align="right">Heavy Cannon</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Rocket Launcher</th><td>85</td><td>55%</td><td>115%</td><td>115%</td><td>55%</td><td>87.5<sup>2</sup></td><th align="right">Rocket Launcher</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Laser Cannon</th><td>110</td><td>50%</td><td>85%</td><td>84%</td><td>50%</td><td>85</td><th align="right">Heavy Laser</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Hovertank/Plasma</th><td>110</td><td>85%</td><td>100%</td><td>100%</td><td>86%</td><td>80</td><th align="right">Plasma Rifle</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Hovertank/Launch</th><td>140</td><td>--%</td><td>120%</td><td>120%</td><td>--%</td><td>200</td><th align="right">Blaster Launcher</th></tr> <br />
</table><br />
<sup>1</sup>AP rounds.<br><br />
<sup>2</sup>Average between the Small and Large Rocket.<br />
<br />
<br />
: Hold up! Tank rounds do 60AP. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:22, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
So what's wrong? The table says 60 for the Tank/Cannon and 56 for HC-AP. Those are correct, no? --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 23:41, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Sorry, didn't realise it was two tables side by side (or rather mirrored). Eyes only noticed the left side of the table. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:53, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: If the Hovertank Launcher did 200 damage, or worse if the Hovertank Launcher did EVEN MORE damage than the Blaster Launcher... that would make them easily the most deadly things on the map. As it is, the hovertank launcher is already pretty overpowered, even with 140 power.<br />
<br />
== DOS4GW - What the heck is it? ==<br />
<br />
It's been ages since I had to remember this stuff, so those who remember clearer than I do, forgive me if my descriptions aren't accurate. Hopefully the general idea will come across. <br />
<br />
Back in ye olde days of computere gamynge - and where there were more E's to go around, memory handling was a tricky beast to handle. Computer memory is divided into several different categories. Conventional, extended and I think expanded. I might be jumbling the terminologies for the last two a bit. Doesn't matter - memory was just cut up into small segments. The two most common memory types to PCs at the time were pretty small but were readily available. The third one - the most expandable (aka the chip with its massive 4 Megs of RAM you just spent your whole month's allowance on!), wasn't as easy to get at. <br />
<br />
To get access to the higher memory that was available to the computer, special memory handlers had to be used. Drivers like HIMEM, emm386, etc were used. <br />
<br />
DOS4GW is one such handler that lets the game access the computer's available expanded memory. Lots of games that came out at the time use this. Doom, Duke Nukem 3d, Syndicate, Ultima Underworld, X-Com UFO/TFTD, etc. LOTS of games. Any time you ran a game from the dos console and you saw the Dos4GW message flash by briefly it would be assisted by it (well, it stayed on the screen for ages back when processors were slower!). <br />
<br />
It took the hassle out of memory handling and let the game access the available memory on the computer as one big flat block of memory to play with. <br />
<br />
So what was meant in the article was to simply replace the dos4gw.exe with a more up-to-date version from another game. I think the way to tell its version was just in the message that it displayed. You can just run the dos4gw.exe file in a console window. It'll give an error, but the message it shows will indicate its version. UFO 1.4 uses Dos4gw 1.95, for example. <br />
<br />
-[[User:NKF|NKF]] 01:22, 6 March 2009 (CST)<br />
:DOS4GW also switched the processor from 16bit to 32bit mode. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 13:58, 6 March 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
== Clipping ==<br />
I have a new bug. Its harmless. I have a savegame (EU CE - modified game) which has a sectoid within another sectoid. In the alien turn, one secturd walked off the roof and dropped down <s>onto</s> into another. (I guess there DNA is indentical afterall, so they 'become one' with the world). If you want the savegame (superhuman edited using UFOloader, UFO Mod v1, xcomed, Khor Chin WeapEdit v0.1) drop me a request on the my page somewhere. [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]] 01:40, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Not something many would encounter, but definitely something that can happen. Units can occupy the same physical space, but the game cannot display them all. It'll only draw one of them. Actually saw this effect happen back in the early days of XComutil when it gained the ability to manually add new aliens into a battlescape. It did this by slotting them into the same spaces occupied by existing aliens. Then the fun would happen when you saw a couple of Mutons suddenly walk out of a sectoid. Not sure how the game determines who gets hurt when struck by a bullet. May very well depend on the order they are stored in the unitpos.dat file. <br />
<br />
: There are a couple of ways you can replicate this in-game, but I can only provide theories on how you could do it. Such as shooting the ceiling above you and letting the unit drop through, or moving a tank off a ledge and getting its non-primary segments land directly on top of another unit. By the way, the rear end of tanks get stuck in walls if you attempt to move north or east off any ledges. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:18, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Ok, so as long as others know about this, then all is good. I had never seen it and was doing alot of head scratching until I shot the alien.<br />
<br />
== Berserk HWP crashes the game ==<br />
In the article page it mentions that aliens which go berserk with their integrated weapons will crash the game. This is only true for Mind Controlled aliens (or units under X-COM control) - alien controlled units which go berserk do not crash the game. I tested an MC'd Celatid just now and it doesn't crash the game either, though it doesn't immediately go berserk - it waits another turn for some odd reason. Someone want to check this to verify my results? --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:31, 27 December 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== 80-items limit on CE edition ==<br />
<br />
I have the feeling that the 80-items limit does not apply to the CE edition and is instead a 110-items limit (at least during base defence). Can anyone confirm? [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 16:24, 24 February 2010 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I believe this limit was increased for TFTD. Maybe it was also increased for the CE edition of UFO, and only ever applied to the DOS edition of UFO?? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:03, 11 March 2010 (EST)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Known_Bugs&diff=33626Talk:Known Bugs2011-05-14T01:19:08Z<p>Jasonred: Correction, bombbloke</p>
<hr />
<div>= Classification etc =<br />
<br />
== Bugs vs Exploits ==<br />
<br />
Could someone comment please on the distinction between a bug and an exploit, and where to put each one? I would guess that a bug is something that undesirable and an exploit "might be" desirable, if you want to cheat. But what about exploits that happen by accident, or bugs that need to be forced to happen? <br />
<br />
I was going to add the Research Rollover bug to the Exploits sections, but they seem to all be under construction. What's the agreed approach?<br />
<br />
[[User:Spike|Spike]] 04:16, 15 March 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
* i think that an exploit is somthing you can trigger and gain an advantage from. a bug may or may not have a known trigger, and does not give an advantage if it does.<br />
: All exploits are bugs, either in implementation or design. When using a bug to gain advantages that bug is used as an exploit (you are exploiting the bug). [[User:FrederikHertzum|FrederikHertzum]] 13:39, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: IMHO, Laser Pistols Gifts to train reactions is an exploit, but it does not involve any bugs. It merely exploits the fact that laser pistols will not penetrate the front armor of Flying Suits. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 16:31, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: I guess the point is to differentiate if it's a bug that's being exploited to your advantage, or it it's something confined within the game mechanics that you are exploiting to your advantage (even if using it as intended). -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:31, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::: Another definition: An exploit is <br />
::::: a) a move allowed by game interface <br />
::::: b) that sidesteps another part of the game mechanics<br />
::::: c) and creates inadequate advantage for the moving player in the process.<br />
::::: An exploit is not a bug, but it can be connected with a bug, if the latter allows a move mentioned in a). Most obvious exploits render whole parts of game mechanics obsolete (see b) above), because they are always more advantageous. In games that feature equal terms for AI and the player, an exploit can be discerned simply by the fact that AI does not use it (sadly this is not true in X-COM). Clear exploit in X-COM: Transfer soldiers = no monthly payment. Suspect exploits: grenade layout. Most probably not an exploit: Sniping (although the inequality with AI is suspect). Clearly not an exploit: dropping weapons to prevent Psi mass murder (this one is made exploitable by the AI unable to pick up weapons, but is not an exploit per se).--[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 05:30, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
The dropping weapons sort of turns into an exploit if you do the "everyone suspect of being a psi weakling drops their weapons at the end of the turn. They all pick up their weapons again if unpsied in the next turn." The grenade layout or grenade hot potato is probably not what the game designers had in mind, but I shudder at the thought of someone who only played X-com then joined the army pulling the pin out of his grenade and then dropping it into his haversack or slinging it on his belt. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 07:43, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Yeah, I think we agreed somewhere that shoving live grenades in your pockets and not having them go off is madness. The relay however is not sensible but certainly possible if only a very short one (if with a live grenade), or to toss a grenade forward and prime it at the second to last person. Or more reasonably, something like a stick of dynamite with an extra long fuse. Even that's very dangerous. <br />
<br />
: By the way, what does everyone here think of using the mind probe to check if it's safe to attack an alien while standing in full view of it, or if you're right up next to it? I've been using it a lot lately (in lieu of the psi amp), so you could say I've been exploiting the mind probe to my advantage to help me with my decision making. But is that counted as a cheat since I'm picking my moments to attack up close when the enemy cannot return fire? -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:30, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: When identifying a mechanic as an "unfair exploit" (as opposed to just a "tactic"), perhaps a simpler checklist is this (though Kyrub's is spot-on):<br />
<br />
:: a) Is this something the developers should've expected players to do?<br />
:: b) Is this something the developers could've easily prevented?<br />
<br />
:: If the answer to both is "yes", then it seems fair game to me. For eg, sniping at aliens: The game KNOWS whether the soldier can see the target (you get a flashing indicator if so), and so it would've been trivial to prevent it. Is it something the regular gamer will try? Certainly; therefore it can be considered expected behaviour. Ditto for using the Mind Probe to make attacks without fear of reaction fire; those things aren't cheap, they sell for a bunch, so it stands to reason that they'd have tactical value!<br />
<br />
:: Things like the transfer bug are clear exploits. The devs would've implemented that system so that, if you order personal near the end of the month, you don't end up paying for them twice before they ever arrive - but in the process, they forgot that "purchase" transfers are treated in the same way as "between-base" transfers. To fix one scenario without breaking the other, they'd've needed to code in some extra stuff so the game could tell the difference - they probably just figured the regular gamer would never notice, assuming they ever realised the problem existed.<br />
<br />
:: The "dropping weapons" thing is a little trickier to work out - yes, the devs should've seen it coming, but would it've been easy to fix? Aliens could've been twigged to either ignore un-armed soldiers... but those soldiers could re-equip next turn. Aliens could also've been twigged to attack randomly... but that would make their psi powers far LESS effective! I suppose the fix, if any, would've been unarmed melee attacks, but the implementation they went with seems to be the next best thing IMO.<br />
<br />
:: In regards to the "grenades in inventory" thing, it's probably common knowledge by now, but they DO go off in the alpha of the game. Presumably someone made a conscious decision to change that, though it could still just be an accidental bug. - <span style="font-size:xx-small">&nbsp;[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke|Contribs]])</span> 09:02, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Sniping at aliens is a very bizarre case, since almost all players will fall prey to the aliens sniping at you long before they snipe the aliens. The behaviour of the aliens to step within sight radius, take one step back, then fire without fear of retaliation *looks* and *feels* like clear exploitation of the rules, but the computer can't be a cheater, can it? So we humans carry that one step further. Mind you, I think X-com would be in trouble if the aliens could snipe you from across the map once they know your positions... especially since the aliens have cheating "if I spot 1 human, I spot ALL of them" abilities. Especially on maps where the aliens get Blaster Bombs...<br />
<br />
An interesting note about sniping and LOS: When I first played Xcom, my first mission was in the jungle. Because of all those plants, when my first soldiers spotted an alien, after he shot at him, I tried to make my 2nd soldier open fire and was informed "NO Line of Fire". I could only get my 2nd soldier to fire by positioning him in such a way that I got the flashing number. Henceforth, I assumed that you could ONLY fire at the aliens when the flashing number was there. LOL. LOF. LOS.<br />
<br />
Transfer bug wise, I thought that the devs merely programmed the game to count how many staff were currently in the base, then deduct that from Xcom coffers? As far as ordering personnel near month end goes, you end up paying salary for them if you order them more than 48 hours from month end, right? "realistically", they should make staff draw salaries based on when they were hired, but this would be too much effort.<br />
<br />
"dropping weapons" would have been easy enough to fix... just teach alien AI how to pick up weapons. Like they did in Apocalypse.<br />
<br />
As far as grenade relays go, if you ever join the army, and you toss a live grenade at your squadmate, you're gonna be court martialled! lol. Xcom grenades are weird cause they presumably come with a computer console where you program them or something that takes a lot of TU, if I already have a grenade in my hand I don't think it takes long to prime it compared to throwing it...<br />
<br />
Pretty clear exploit/bug is tossing grenades through the ceiling? That breaks all laws of realism/logic/whatever, and I'm sure the devs didn't plan for THAT to happen! [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:18, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Turns out the "spot one, spot all" thing was wrong all these years. However, units can be "spotted" by sniping an alien, hitting it, but failing to outright kill it; this may have contributed to the misconception.<br />
<br />
: The game considers the base to have the correct amount of personal as soon as you initiate a transfer - if a base has room for ten people, you can't send two groups of ten, as soon as the first is in transit the game will correctly recognise that the destination is now filled up and won't allow you to send any more. Likewise, if you hire soldiers, they'll count towards the allowance of more promotions in your ranks before they ever arrive at a base. That is to say, the payment system deals with personal counts in a different way to every other system in the game, making it look like it's intentional (if badly exploitable) behaviour. In terms of transit times, those seem to vary, I know a purchase of scientists takes 72 hours to arrive.<br />
<br />
: Er, yes, getting aliens to pick up weapons would've indeed fixed the dropping thing. Shoulda thought of that...<br />
<br />
: The grenade thing is indeed unrealistic however you look at it. Certainly throwing the things through ceilings is a bug, and its use is a large exploit. - <span style="font-size:xx-small">&nbsp;[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke|Contribs]])</span> 20:02, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Then how do the aliens "spot" the psi weakling to target him for psi attacks? Doesn't the game ALWAYS start blasting the juiciest target, regardless of LOS? Or is it just coincidence? [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 22:22, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: They really have to "[[UNITPOS.DAT#8|spot]]" the target before they can blast them (however, it appears that later in a campaign this rule gets broken). If they've only spotted a psi-''resistant'' trooper, they typically won't bother to make attacks at all. There's a lot of relevant information in [http://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/Can-alien-attempt-Mind-control-Pani-t8115.html this thread]. - <span style="font-size:xx-small">&nbsp;[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke|Contribs]])</span> 23:28, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Your talking about your post on http://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/Can-alien-attempt-Mind-control-Pani-t8115.html&pid=96123&mode=threaded#entry96123 ? Well, I'd just like to point out a massive flaw in your testing logic. You forgot that aliens will launch psi attacks based on chance of success, and chance of success varies based on distance from aliens. In other words, it could easily be that the aliens only attempted psi when your soldier was within sight of them because your soldier was now NEAR to them and therefore they had a strong chance of success.<br />
<br />
: Also, as you have noted, it appears that your rule gets broken. In fact, it is not uncommon at all for the Ethereal Commander who is boxed up in the Command Center to launch psi attacks on victims who are separated from him by several layers of walls, as long as their proximity to him is near enough. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 21:19, 13 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Bugs vs Limits ==<br />
<br />
''(Discussion continued from [[Talk:Known Bugs#Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested|Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested]])''<br />
<br />
The "Soldier Recruiting Limit" is <b>not</b> a bug, it is a limitation of the game. Therefore, this should be removed from the page. If we want it somewhere else (like a new page such as [[Game Limitations]]), that would be appropriate. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 01:42, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::Not sure that's necessarily the best idea, Zombie, since many of the entries on the Known Bugs article(as well as some entries on the Exploits pages) are limitations of the game engine. On just a brief glance through, the following caught my eye as engine limitations: Manufacturing limit, Storage limit, Purchase limit, 80-item limit, Proximity Grenade limit, Large units not waking up from stun, Interception last shot bug, Alien UFL radar blitz-through bug(Passing through the detection range of a radar before the detection check comes up), Free manufacturing, free wages, UFO Redux, point-scoring with Ctrl-C, permanent MC of chryssalids, Zombie-MC resurrection of agents, alien inventory exploits, anything involved with bad collision detection, extinguishing fire with a Smoke Grenade, and even your personal favorite, denying the aliens access to their own spawn points. So in conclusion, maybe it should just be left as it is; conversely, all of these entries could be kept where they are and also on a Game Limitations page, or we could leave the headers there and link them over to the appropriate topics on Game Limitations. What do you think? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:21, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I agree with AQ (great list of examples by the way - and the Smoke/Fire limit would be another). Many, if not most, of the bugs are "Limitations" but they are logically inconsistent and not what a player would expect to happen: they are imposed by (at best) memory limitations or (at worst) design/programming oversights. I think the easiest thing to do would be to change the title of the page to Known Bugs and Limitations, or put an explanatory note at the beginning of the section to explain that "Bugs" is taken to included "Limitations". [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:16, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
By the strictest sense of meaning, a "bug" is a mistake or error on the programmers part. Limitations imposed <i>by design</i> or memory are not the same creature as the people involved were consciously aware of the decision. I suppose that to the normal player, any type of behavior which is unexpected/unwanted is automatically dumped in the bug category because to them there is no difference. To those of us who study the game files however, the two are unequivalent. Programming oversights, yes, those are bugs.<br />
<br />
Some of those limitations AQ mentions are (to me at least) bugs: free manufacturing, free wages, permanent MC of Cryssies (or actually any alien for that matter), Zombie resurrections and collision detection. Large aliens not waking up from stun is again, a bug. The programmers obviously had some issues when dealing with large units in general and never quite got it right. They made some progress in TFTD by trying to fix mind controlling each section of a large unit, but royally screwed it up by selecting the next 3 entries in UNITPOS.DAT no matter what they pointed to.<br />
<br />
Perhaps it's just my background in logic which makes me want to push for a separate category for limitations. Then again, as long as everything is listed somewhere I'm happy. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 22:06, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Actually, taking a look through the page as a whole there are various other Limits described, and the distinction between Bugs and Limits is made quite rigorously throughout - not just in the Soldier Limits and Bugs section, where the Soldier Recruiting Limit is referred to as a Limit whereas other bugs (such as paying salaries for soldiers you can't recruit) are referred to as Bugs. So we maybe just need to rename the pages "Bugs and Limits" and add an explanatory note on the distinction. From a user point of view, rather than a programmer point of view, a bug is an unexpected (inconsistent or illogical) behaviour, so for that reason I think it makes sense to keep them on the same page but try to ensure they are all correctly classified as Bug or Limit.<br />
<br />
: By the way, it could be hard to absolutely distinguish Bugs from Limits as I suspect there are going to be some grey areas where you would have to second-guess the intentions and decisions of the coders to know for sure if something was a designed-in Limit, or just an oversight (Bug). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 06:50, 10 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::If we distinguish in this manner, I suggest the definition of "Limit" should be, "Something imposed by the game files or engine as a limitation, most likely in context to the capabilites of the then-current personal computer." More succinctly, anything that was done to allow the game to run acceptably on what was then a PC. This would include both the Soldier and 80-Item limits, the spawn limit(40 units per side), Smoke/Fire limit, and some of the others listed. (The Purchase limit was probably more of a convienence for the programmers than anything, but it is clearly an intended feature.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:11, 10 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I would add to this that sometimes a Limit may be imposed as a game design / gameplay decision, rather than in order to conserve a constrained resource in the platform (=PC). Also, I would suggest that ''intended'' Limits are Limits, but ''unintended'' consequences of Limits are Bugs. Obviously, making this distinction involves some guesswork. But I would guess that while the limit on total smoke/fire hexes was an intended Limit (to conserve PC resources), the ability to put out fires with smoke grenades and disperse smoke with IC rounds is probably an unintended consequence of the Limit, and so should probably be considered a Bug. Similarly, Base Defence spawn points are probably an intended limit, but the ability to flood spawn points is an unintended consequence of this, and thus a Bug (and an Exploit). (Spawn points should have been shared out 50/50, not humans-first). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:07, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::The limit on Soldier and Interception craft were probably more of a limit imposed because they capped the file and figured that X-COM wouldn't ever need more than 40 interception craft or 250 soldiers. (And I've never needed that many, case in point.)<br />
<br />
::As for spawns, its actually difficult to take advantage of it in any reasonably established base. X-COM can spawn up to 40 soldiers in a base defense mission(tanks count as 4 soldiers), as a limit of LOC.DAT. Aliens have the same limit. So in order to take advantage of the bug, the base needs 40 or less spawns total. The Access Lift has 8 spawn points, General Stores(weapon-handling) has 11, Living Quarters has 8 more. This is 27 Spawns just getting soldiers in a base and armed. (Although the General Stores can be cut out if you perform the bug properly). Large Radar and HWD have 6 spawns(Small Radar has 2), and Hangar has 15. So overall, the "Spawn prevention" can be hard to take advantage of with all but the smallest bases. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 14:48, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
Just to clarify, X-COM interception craft are not capped at 40 ships. LOC.DAT has a cap of 50 "things" on the geoscape screen at a time. This is shared between X-COM bases, X-COM ships, alien bases, seen or unseen UFO's, terror sites, crash sites, landing sites and waypoints. In a perfect game world with little alien activity and normally constructed bases, the max number of X-COM craft possible is 44: 5 bases with 8 hangars each plus one base with 4 hangars (or any combination thereof). If you illegally modify your base layout with an editor to get rid of the access lift, the max can be increased to 45 ships (9 hangars in 5 bases). Once clogged, all alien activity will cease.<br />
<br />
The base defense limit of 40 units exists because of UNITPOS.DAT which has a cap of 80 entries total (tanks occupy 4 entries in this file). Auto-win missions in a base defense mission by clogging all the spawn points with X-COM units isn't as tough as it sounds, especially if your base is small or doesn't contain hangars. The main thing is getting your full quota of 40 units to spawn (meaning you should try not to have any tanks as they count as 4 units but only occupy one spawn point). This limits the base size to something like 5-6 modules depending on what you build. Still, even having more than 6 modules isn't bad as it forces aliens to spawn intermingled between your troops. With 40 armed guys staring in every direction, you can get positions of all the aliens in the first round and possibly even kill them all (depends on weapons and alien race of course). --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I would say that Limits are the CAUSE of bugs... also, I feel that fire/smoke limit can be called a bug, because a player normally has no way to tell this, other than observation. Whereas the game DIRECTLY and CLEARLY informs you whenever you hit the 80 item or 250 soldier limits, which is more fair. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:22, 23 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
= Specific Bug Discussions =<br />
<br />
== Misc Technical Bug ? ==<br />
<br />
''(The context of this discussion seems to have been lost)''<br />
<br />
This is a technical bug that doesn't happen to everyone and one this article wasn't really meant to chronical - but we won't turn away helping a fellow player if it can't be helped. It's just that there are so many random crash points in this game that it would take far too long to find them all or come up with solutions for them. <br />
<br />
Certainly, the transfer crash can happen to some players, but it's not one that can be reproduced easily. It's just like the random crash that some players get when they research a floater medic. It crashes the game for some of us, but others don't seem to notice it at all. <br />
<br />
It really depends on your hardware and OS setup, whether or not your copy of the game is damaged or your savegame is damaged, etc. <br />
<br />
Does it happen in all games or just this one savegame? <br />
<br />
- [[User:NKF|NKF]] <br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
== "Invisible Muton" bug ==<br />
<br />
Upon shooting repeatedly a Muton, it sometimes plays its "death" animation without sound (as if falling unconscious) and it is no longer displayed in the screen, while remaining visible to my soldiers (I can center the screen and the cursor appears yellow over them). Under this state, they cannot be targeted by Stun Rods. They may play their death animation anytime they get shot, until they truly die, when they emit their characteristic sound and leave a corpse (along with any items carried).<br />
<br />
I'm quite fond of laser weapons, maybe this happens more often with those.<br />
<br />
Also, though I remember experiencing this quite often fighting Mutons, it may happen to any other high health race.--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 02:59, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
Never seen that one myself. Another "unpatched game" thing maybe?<br />
<br />
There's a (very rare) bug that allows your soldiers to live if they become stunned by an explosion that happens to kill them. Sometimes the game will register their death, and THEN register that they've been stunned. In every case I've seen this happen, however, the unit will have such a low amount of health that a single fatal wound will render it dead (again) on the next turn. I have a vague memory that other players may have been able to get a medkit to the scene on time...<br />
<br />
I dunno if that's related to your issue at all (I doubt it, but... meh). I'd advise using a Mind Probe on the alien the next time it happens so you can check the aliens stun/health levels.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure I've seen this with Mutons. Possibly Chrysallids as well, another high health, high armor creature. They were still readily killed by shooting the place they are. Good thought on the MP, BB<br />
<br />
---[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 08:51, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I've been known to have a dying muton(in fire) to spin around and then switch to the female civilian death animation. With the scream and everything. Even got a civilian death registered at the end of the mission. And this didn't just happen once, but on another separate occasion.<br />
<br />
Hmm. shape-shifting reptilians in the game! LOL! Happens alot [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Unusually enough, I once had a sectopod die and then drop a tank corpse. I was using the Lightning at the time for my troop carrier, so you can imagine my surprise. <br />
<br />
Then there was one occasion where a floater dropped a snakeman corpse. Let's not even get into the sort of things the aliens like to stuff themselves with. <br />
<br />
Your invisible alien bug is quite common, although there appears to be many causes for it. I think one involves a full object table when it comes to invisible aliens in bases. But it can also happen in ordinary missions as well. I'm guessing the game may have tried to do something in the wrong order, and sprite information for the unit may have been lost or corrupted along the way. <br />
<br />
Having had an experience where all the chryssalids become invisible in one base defence mission was quite a shocker. I fixed this by saving the game, quitting and then restarting the game. If you ever get an invisible alien again, try this and see if it helps. If it doesn't, well, just keep a careful watch on your map and any alerts that pop up as you play. <br />
<br />
There's a similar but less severe bug where a dead alien will still leave its centre-on-unit alert button, but this goes away shortly after you move or turn. <br />
<br />
- [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
That last bug happens when exploding Cyberdiscs kill nearby Sectoids, doesn't it?--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 23:56, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
This is a pretty easy one. I guess this bug occured on UFO recovery on a battleship, an alien base assault or a base defense mission? As soon as there are too many items on the map, the game saves some item slots for the equipment to be displayed (since it is more valuable and more important to research). This would also make stun weapons lethal if the stunned aliens would vanish. therefore the game has a failsafe if an alien is stunned (or badly wounded and becoming uncontious). The downed alien's stun level is set exactly on its left health points therefore resurrecting it instantly. This cycle is broken when the alien is finally killed. This means if you want to stun an alien in such a situation you have to destroy some items first.<br />
<br />
- by tequilachef (April 4th 2007)<br />
<br />
== Vanishing snakemen ==<br />
<br />
I've known snakemen to become invisible when standing on a hay bale. On the first occassion I had a poor tank getting shot while spending numerous turns looking for it. On the second occasion I had an alien under Psi-control, left it on the hay bale, and couldn't find it next turn. - Egor<br />
<br />
---<br />
<br />
This is not limited to snakemen. Hay bale block visibility quite much when a unit is standing on it. Two possible solutions:<br />
- Destroy the hay before entering<br />
- Shoot at the hay. If it is destroyed any unit on it will become visible (as long as no other bales are blocking the line of sight). You might also hit the enemy directly.<br />
<br />
I Dnt know if the aliens are affected by this diminished sight, too. My guess would be no.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)<br />
<br />
== Blaster Bomb Bug ==<br />
<br />
I'm currently playing through X-com UFO Defense, I have the collectors edition version. I'm in the process of trying to catch a live alien commander and the blaster bomb bug is making this very difficult. If i remember correctly a commander is always in the command center of the the alien bases. The problem is anytime i get close there is always a dude with a blaster launcher up there that tries to kill my troops. When they try to fire it down at me the bug kicks in and they blow up the whole command room and all the aliens in it because they can't figure out how to get the blaster bomb down the grav lift thing in there. This is making it very dificult to actually catch a live commander. Anyone have any ideas for tactics or anything to breach that room without the aliens trying to fire a blaster launcher up there? - eL Hector<br />
<br />
: I can suggest two possible solutions. The first is to wait outside the command room for the alien to move closer to you. If it comes out of the room or if you know it has moved down the lift, you then burst in and stand right next to it to stop it from firing the blaster. This is risky because there could very well be a heavy plasma toting alien in there. The other is to use a small launcher and launch it up at the ceiling near where you think the alien with the blaster is standing. -[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Disappearing Ammunition ==<br />
<br />
I have observed that problem with X-COM 1.2, modded with XCOMUTIL. My stun bombs and heavy rocket missiles, along with clips for the auto cannon went missing.<br />
[[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]<br />
<br />
------<br />
<br />
Just run a test using my 1.4 DOS version with XComUtil but my stun bombs didn't disappear: 30 + 1 back in the base they came from, same number after I went tactical and I dusted-off immediately. Are you running XComUtil with Runxcom.bat or did you simply run Xcusetup?<br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 22:12, 22 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Is it a case of hitting the 80-item limit?--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 12:28, 23 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
------<br />
With runxcomw.bat, as everytime. Apologies, I retested and it seems like I was mistakened, but I could have sworn that I lost them dang stunbombs. Had to manufacture some. I will test some more, using four heavy weapons and seeing whether their ammunition disappears at all. Thanks. [[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]<br />
<br />
==MC at end = MIA?==<br />
<br />
I am sure I have seen this again recently, where I won a mission with no casualties (I thought), but the last thing I killed was a Commander that had been chain MC'ing a psi-attack-magnet trooper, and that trooper was listed as MIA at the end (presumably because he was on the enemy side at the end of combat). Is this a bug, or is there another way to get MIA's on a completed mission that I might have missed?<br />
<br />
Since then I have been waiting for the leaders to panic at the end before killing them (or waiting for a rare resist), so I can safely exit, but am I being overcautious?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 13:45, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
If the trooper was mind controlled on the turn you killed the last alien it will be listed as MIA. No bug there :) <br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 18:16, 1 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
Huh, why would that happen - your soldier should recover the very next round, why would he go MIA?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 18:20, 1 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
Doesn't make sense to me as well but that's how the game works. <br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 15:05, 2 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
It seems that regaining control of units under enemy mind control works different for alien and human players. My guess: aliens under human MC are reverted to alien control AFTER THE ALIEN AND BEFORE THE HUMAN TURN while human units under alien control are reverted RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE HUMAN TURN. This explains three different phenomenons:<br />
<br />
- The discussed MIA "bug" (he unit would be returned in the next human turn, but since it never starts it is lost. The mission is still won since no unit with a "genuine alien" marking is left)<br />
<br />
- The fact that a mission is lost when the last human falls under MC while it is not won when this happens to the last standing alien (the aliens get their unit back before their turn starts and therefore have a unit left to pass the "anyone alive?" check, the humans would have no unit left to start a turn with. They WOULD have as soon as the turn starts, but no unit left before turn means bust)<br />
<br />
- The fact that aliens still can see all an MCed human saw at the end of the human turn that follows the MC while this is not vice versa (The MCed human can give information to the alien side before reverted while an MCed alien is reverted too early). The result is that aliens can control a human indefinitely without having any alien seeing him until the MC is disrupted for one turn.<br />
<br />
All confused? Then I did a good job! No seriously, this must be the explanation, I couldn't think of any other way.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)<br />
<br />
: You're absolutely correct on the first two points. It's a sequence issue - you never get round to recovering the unit before the new turn starts, so you end without any units whatsoever. Makes senses too since the aliens would continue to continue to mind control that same unit over and over indefinitely. <br />
<br />
: The third point however: The aliens don't need to know the location of the last MC'd unit. They know the location of all your troops whether they've seen them or not from the very start. They appear to give you a few turns of grace where they won't attack you outright (unless, from my observation, all your soldiers are incredibly weak). This is evident because all of the aliens will eventually make their way towards the nearest soldier even though their movement pattern may seem semi-random. Also, they know where you are because they can initiate psionic attacks without having seen any of your troops. They generally go after the weakest troops first. <br />
<br />
: Just to add a semi-related point, but from the alien's perspective. If an MC'd alien unit is in the exits when you abort the mission, this alien is not recovered and in fact simply vanishes. Any equipment it was carrying is recovered, unknown artefacts or otherwise. You could possibly think of this as their version of MIA. However, the aliens differ ever so slightly in that if it's the last alien standing and under temporary mind control by the player, the mission doesn't end straight away. But I guess this is only because the player has everything under control, whereas in the other scenario, the Ai is in control. <br />
<br />
: -[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Crash Site in the atlantic ocean ==<br />
<br />
That's right, my game generated a crash site on water. Here are the details:<br />
<br />
- Crash Site a bit southeast of the USA (which was infiltrated a few days before by sectoids, resulting base had already been taken out), but certainly not on land.<br />
<br />
- UFO: battleship, floater, alien harvest<br />
<br />
- Geoscape: 8 X-Com Bases, 1 (known) Alien base, 2 other crash sites, 1 other (known) flying UFO (though almost worldwide decoder coverage), 3 X-Com Crafts out, 1 waypoint<br />
<br />
- Date: January 2000<br />
<br />
- Most Interesting: The Craft that downed the ship was a recently finished Firestorm (first human-alien hybrid craft I had built, I know this is lame for that date. Limited myself on 25 Scientists to improve the challenge) equipped with twin plasma. I had it built and equipped in Antarctica and then transferred to Europe. This base had no Elerium, a fact that enabled me to use the infinite fuel exploit which was in effect when downing the UFO. My craft was only slightly damaged when doing so. The battleship was the first target assigned to the craft, it came directly from my base. <br />
<br />
- When shot down, the UFO was not targetted by any other craft.<br />
<br />
- I had not lost or sold a single craft to that point.<br />
<br />
- When sending a squad to the crash site the game didn't crash but generated a farm land ground combat terrain.<br />
<br />
- I was not able to reproduce the bug from the savegame dated 2 hours before downing the UFO<br />
<br />
Well guys, any intelligent guesses? I still have the savegames (before and after downing)! If you want to have a look, write here.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 5th 2007)<br />
----<br />
: Well I'm sure you know about crash sites that are near land can sometimes actually be on water, so I'm going to assume that this site is well far away from any land mass. Could it be a weird entry in GEODATA\WORLD.DAT that has a land mass out in the ocean? Also are you sure the game didn't crash? Sometimes when it does it will load the previous mission (and usually 90% are at farm terrain). Are you sure it generated a new map and not load the last one?<br />
:No real guesses but maybe some starting points to look at. I've probably stated some obvious situations you know about and have accounted for, but it never hurts to double check :D<br />
- [[User:Pi Masta|Pi Masta]] 14:23, 5 April 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Inconsistencies in MCing Cyberdiscs and Sectopods ==<br />
<br />
I experienced, that when MCing one quadrant of a large terror unit any action it does only affects this quadrant (especially use of time units). That means, when TUs are up for one part, MC another one and continue firing. This however does not work out when moving the unit while it is not under complete control. The TUs used up by the resulting reaction fire from the rest of the unit is also deducted from the TUs "your" part has left (making it impossible for the controlled parts to return fire). This however only happens under reaction fire, not if "your" part fires on it's own. I don't know if this comes up when uncontrolled parts shoot by themselves in the alien turn, since this is hard to find out.<br />
<br />
: That's because large units literally are made up of four separate units. They only share the same set of general stats (in unitref.dat). Unfortunately the 'under mind control flag' is unique to the four units, not the shared stats! So you in effect have multiple units under different control sharing the same stats. So if you move and it results in a reaction from the unit, it will spend the TUs you're using. <br />
: Successful mind control automatically fills up the unit's TUs, so each mind controlled sector gets to move or attack again until there are no more sectors to mind control. Useful way of turning reapers into long range scouts! <br />
: In TFTD, they attempted to fix this bug, but in fact made it much-much worse! The only way to mind control the unit properly is to control the upper left quadrant. Only! Any other quadrant will result in a partial (clockwise) control, and you may gain control of units other than that unit, or may even get into situations where you gain permanent 'partial control' of a large unit you haven't even sited. Wackiness all around! <br />
<br />
:- [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Facility Dismantle Bug ==<br />
<br />
Boba: I've never experienced this bug myself in all my games in the Collectors Edition. It may very well vary from computer to computer. <br />
<br />
-[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
:I, however, have experienced it. I lost an entire month's worth of playtime because I couldn't solve it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]]<br />
<br />
::Anyone, any ideas on why it might vary from PC to PC? -[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]<br />
<br />
:::I'd check other factors before blaming a given system. Assuming no mods are being used the most obvious is the order in which you initiated the construction of the modules. Then we've got which one was due to be completed first, and I'm sure there's a few other things to test out. Usually, a player won't cancel in-progress modules on a regular basis, so you wouldn't expect this bug to turn up often. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Easy way to reproduce: build 2 General Stores. Now delete the "second one" (see offset 16-39 in [[BASE.DAT]] for the order). Wait for the first one to complete. It'll crash immediately after the "end of construction" dialog. A fix is available [[User:Seb76#Bug_Fixes | here]]. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 15:52, 22 July 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Manufacturing Limit Bug ==<br />
<br />
Unfortunately, Mike, no you did not get it correct. It is the raw number of hours needed to complete the project, not the projected hours. I discussed this on the X-Com Forums a few months back at the following link: http://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=242027760&st=0&#entry164411<br />
<br />
I did tests at the time in regard to the accuracy of the data given there, but I've lost the results. I'll quickly redo the tests in the next hour or so. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:00, 8 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Tests complete. The breakpoints for every item were exactly where I predicted, regardless of number of engineers assigned. (I ran up a huge queue of items at my dedicated factory base on an old game, and then assigned whatever engineers would fit onto one project at a time, canceling projects as data was confirmed. This is only semi-random, but it serves our purposes.) I did run into a single issue, though. It appears that despite having 5 empty hangars at a (different!) base, the workshop there could not queue up more than 3 of any one craft at a time, thus making this bug impossible to replicate with the Firestorm or Lightning, as you must be producing more than three for the bug to occur. However, it still works with the Avenger. Later, I shall see about constructing a dedicated Hangar base with 7 hangars in order to attempt to replicate the bug. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:33, 8 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Sounds great, Arrow. Why not post a simple example that shows how the problem works. As in, "with 1 Eng and 2 Avengers you might think X, but no, it's Y". And please delete my example. And it's a fine pleasure to meet you! Cool - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]<br />
<br />
:::When you say the usual resources are used by the "lost" resources, that includes cash, right? It sounds like if you're willing to foot the extra bill [[Buying/Selling/Transferring#Manufacturable_Prices|money/component-wise]], this could be used to build Avengers slightly faster then normal.<br />
<br />
::: The usual time is 34000 hours. Double that and subtract 65535 and you're left with a paltry 2465 hours. Even a single workshop squad of 10 engineers will pull that off in a little over ten days. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Sadly, this exploit doesn't work, because the high bit is stored SOMEWHERE. I lack a hex reader and have no code reading skills to speak of, so I'm a bit limited here. If you set up a Workshop as you described, the game would take all the time for 2 Avengers, all the resources for the same, but in the end only produce 1 Avenger. Meanwhile, I'll run more tests on the resources thing. I could swear it consumes the resources, but I'll double check.<br />
<br />
:::::There is no need to store the high bits if the actual completion condition (assuming adequate money) is "number made is number ordered", which wouldn't reference the hours remaining at all. - [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 01:49, 9 Oct 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::::Tests done; I was unable to replicate the 'disappearing item' trick,(Which I didn't test for last night) even with Avengers! It appears I was wrong; this still counts as a bug, though, because the wraparound is a problem.<br />
<br />
::::Ironic that so much of this discussion centers around Avengers, because that's where I discovered this in the first place! [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:48, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I'm revisiting XCOM and was working on [[Manufacturing Profitability]]... Arrow, can you (or anyone else) say a little bit more on the Known Bugs page about this [[Known_Bugs#Manufacturing_Limit_Bug]]? It's not clear to me exactly what the bug does, except that it understates hours. Is that all?... does it still take the (non-buggy) amount of time, still use all the same resources, still make the same number, etc.? It sounds like it could be a drastic bug - or is it only a very superficial one, a display bug for the hours? It sounds like you're leaning toward this latter.<br />
<br />
Also on a semi-related note... I could swear I saw much more detailed info on the [[Known_Bugs#Facility_Maintenance_Costs]] issue... IIRC, the incorrect amount that's charged for maintenance, depends on exactly where a facility is in the base. IOW, different "rows" of the base cost different amounts. Could somebody provide a link there, and/or flesh the bug out better?<br />
<br />
Thanks! - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 11:22, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I've actually seen the bug work both ways, but I've only been able to actually replicate the more superficial version of the bug. So the bug report up is about a superficial bug that drastically understates production time. If you wish to make this clearer, you have my blessings. As well, that 'different charging based on location' is dealt with here: http://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Base_Facilities ; however, the table has been broken with the Wikiupgrade, and I lack sufficient knowledge of HTML table code to fix it. But it should be of use to you. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 11:26, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Cool, I fixed [[Talk:Base Facilities]] but also re-organized and expanded [[Base Facilities]] so that it includes that bug in detail, as per Talk... this is an important issue that should be up front. I see that there's a separate [[Maintenance costs]] page, but I can't see having something so important (the maintenance bug explanation) all on its own page (which makes for a rather short page) rather than together with all the rest of the base facility info. If others agree (or don't care), I'll move anything remaining on Maintenance Costs to the Base Facilities page, then delete Maintenance Costs and re-route links. And if somebody does care, then please move my new section to Maintenance Costs, and move all the links, etc. Oh also I put in more words on your Manufacturing Limit Bug - how does it look? - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 16:37, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Looks pretty good, although it'll wrap fully; if you ask for 120000 hours, it won't be displaying 'almost no' time. The way I discovered it was when building two Avengers; I ordered two, paid for two, waited for two...and got one. But as said, haven't managed to repeat it, so until I do, we'll leave it like that. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I just revised and put in your specific example, because it's certainly possible some of us die-hard players will order up more than 1 Avenger at a time - and it's guaranteed it'd be a pain if 1 of them disappeared, laugh. I wasn't sure how concrete you were on that example but now I hear you say, you are sure it happened at least once. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 18:33, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I have a question concerning the manufacturing "bug" which eats a craft in production due to wrap-over of the byte. Arrow (or whoever did the test), did you have a large quantity of craft already built at your bases? If so, I think this bug has more to deal with clogging up [[CRAFT.DAT]]. See, that file has a limit of 50 entries. Each craft takes up one record and each base you have built also consumes one spot. 8 bases allows 42 craft to be housed, while 6 bases allow 44. If you try to buy or manufacture craft once the file is full, nothing shows up in the game even if you have hangar space available. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 19:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Huh, I never knew that. I don't see it listed on the Bugs page... I'll stick it in there. I've never approached that number, but some folks might. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 19:07, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I was able to continue building other Avengers after that project, and they appeared correctly, so I do not believe that is the issue. In any event, I have a very bad case of 'archivism' and probably still have the save game and the CRAFT.DAT file around on my system; in fact, I think I was playing it a few days ago. I can see if I can find it and upload it; it created a 'hole' in the Avenger fleet numbers, where Avenger's x and x+2 were built, but x+1 was not. I'll look for it tonight and tomorrow and upload it to the wiki if I find it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:10, 8 October 2007 (PDT) EDIT: I found the file; I have 28 Avengers and 1 Skyranger in my employ. All Avenger numbers EXCEPT #2(Avenger-2) are accounted for, and I have not sacked or lost any Avengers. So this is where the hole and 'eaten' Avenger is. If anyone wants the CRAFT.DAT file from this game, I'd be happy to forward it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:20, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Sure, send it my way and I'll take a look at it. (Might as well send me the whole saved game as I may want to look at the other files too). I have tried to recreate this bug by manufacturing 1, 2 and 3 Avengers at a clip but all of them always show up. Don't know what else I could do to get this problem to crop up. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:32, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:File emailed. On the side, I've tried the same thing, and never been able to repeat the bug. It's been months since the first discovery, so I can't recall whether it was the first or the second Avenger that didn't appear. So maybe it was just a fluke. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:57, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Unconscious Enemy in Equipment Screen ==<br />
<br />
The following happened to me repeatedly over the last few days.<br />
<br />
In the last tactical Mission a live alien has been captured. When now beginning an UFO crash recovery mission this type of alien (same race and rank) appears in the equipment screen before the mission starts, meaning I can give it to any of my soldiers.<br />
If I do so I can store the alien in the skyranger for the duration of the mission and, if it gains consciousness, kill or stun it at the end of it. A pile of equipment without a corpse will be in the UFO, indicating that the stunned alien is not some kind of duplicate but instead has been taken from the aliens of this mission. This is supported by the fact that in those missions the maximum number of crew members has not been surpassed.<br />
If I do not do so the Alien will be placed in the crashed UFO. Whether it is unconscious or not I do not know, but the fact that it is completely disarmed when encountered in the battle suggests that it is.<br />
<br />
So far it seems the following is necessary for the bug to occur:<br />
# An alien has to be captured alive in the last tactical combat<br />
# It has to be of the same race and rank as one of the aliens in the new tactical combat<br />
<br />
So far this only worked...:<br />
# If the new tactical combat was an UFO crash recovery of a medium scout.<br />
# For floaters and mutons<br />
# For soldiers and navigators<br />
# If the alien in the last mission was stunned by normal weapon fire (although I do not think this is important) and not picked up (again, not likely to be important) or destroyed (which would mean it has to be actually captured)<br />
<br />
It seems NOT to depend on the following:<br />
# The type of the last mission (were, so far: Ground assault battleship, crash recovery large scout, base defense)<br />
# Which squad or vessel was involved capturing the alien<br />
# Where it is locked up<br />
# If it has been transferred since capture or not<br />
<br />
Would be interesting to know:<br />
# What happens if the alien in the inventory screen is the only survivor<br />
# If the alien in the invenory screen is one of the aliens randomly killed in the crash or not (it is likely to be one of the killed aliens, so far the equipment piles were always within the UFO)<br />
# If this is not limited on crashed medium scouts: Does this work with terror units? What about large ones?<br />
<br />
Maybe this is related to the proximity grenade bug (transfer of item properties to next tactical combat).<br />
<br />
Additionally, in one of those mission a part of the terrain was not generated correctly. It was in farm terrain (The house on the right square, or north east square, in [[Image:Terrain-cult.gif|this pic]]). The outer wall right to the right window of the southern wall (1st Floor) was missing. Directly outside of the hole was a floor tile. I could walk a soldier through the wall, but he fell right through the tile. Dunno if this has to do with the stunned alien bug.<br />
<br />
Version is collectors edition (the one from abandonia.com).<br />
<br />
----------------<br />
<br />
When a mission starts, the GeoScape engine generates the unit and object tables (in MissDat's [[OBPOSREF.DAT]], [[UNIPOS.DAT]], and [[UNIREF.DAT]]) before "shutting down". The Tactical engine then generates the maps, places the aliens on it, and blows up the UFO (if need be). Whether or not map generation and the subsequent events happen before you equip your soldiers I don't yet know.<br />
<br />
The test would be to check the aforementioned files to see if they contain an unconcious alien, and/or the body.<br />
<br />
Note that you can't see the bodies of large units on the ground (they count as four seperate objects covering four seperate tiles, so allowing the user to pick one up would essentially let you rip them apart).<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 06:35, 5 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----------------<br />
<br />
I honestly have no idea of how all those files work. But I still have a savegame in battlescape that is in one of those missions. So if anyone wants to have a look at those files...<br />
<br />
I forgot to mention: I reloaded a geoscape savegame shortly before the battle to recreate the bug, but it seems that reloading in geoscape before the buggy battle eliminates the bug. I guess his should narrow down the possible reasons...<br />
<br />
--------<br />
<br />
Next time it happens, backup the aforementioned files before you start another mission. I'm afraid a savegame wouldn't be of much help.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 00:54, 7 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Soldiers moved to outside of combat screen ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I've got a DOS version of UFO:EU, and I've encountered a bug in the tactical combat. Sometimes (rarely) a X-COM soldier changes its location on the map on player's turn start and is placed on outside of the map, one tile north from the (north) border of the field. AFAIR the unit is then selectable (you get the flashing highlight when cursor is above), but is stuck outside of the field. Has anybody encountered this bug? It seems to happen randomly, but more frequently during the terror missions and on early turns (so maybe it's caused by high number of player/alien/civilian units?). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 08:16, 3 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I've never encountered this bug in CE of UFO. Presuming AFAIR means "As Far As I Recall," what exactly was the soldier doing? Any equipment data, location, or stat info might help us pin it down. Were afflicted soldiers always carrying a specific equipment set or weapon? Where were they on the map before they got moved? Did they get bumped a few spaces, or teleported halfway across the Battlescape? Does it happen more often on a specific difficulty?(Your theory would suggest this would happen most commonly on Superhuman) Against a certain type of alien? Best of all, if you can recreate the situation in a game, save the game and then you could upload the save file to the forums or this wiki, and the rest of us could take a look for ourselves and the code divers could root around for the cause. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:03, 3 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: I've had this happen to me several times in UFO and TFTD. I don't know if it's specific to the Dos version or if it can happen in the CE as well. Sometimes the soldier ends up beyond the boundary of the map right at the start of the mission, at other times it happens after you load a game. This game is glitchy, which is the source for so many of its bugs, so your soldier's coordinates are probably getting corrupted to the point where they are -1 on either the X or Y axis of the maps's normal boundaries. For me it's commonly along the top edge of the map. I don't ever recall it happening mid-mission, only at the start or after a load. I cannot faithfully say whether it happened with or without XComutil, but that could be one of the possibly many causes for this. - [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
:: I don't play UFO often, so I rely on just several campaigns played. This happens rarely (I've encountered this bug twice in my last campaign with ~80 missions played), but if you haven't seen this happen then it probably doesn't show up in the CE edition. In my experience the soldier is moved always beyond the north/top map border. I think (but I'm not sure) that this affects the first soldier from the team more commonly than others (or maybe even exclusevily?). The equipment/armor carried is probably not relevant, since the units moved this way don't have any special stuff, and this bug shows up on different stages of the gameplay (ie. sometimes when you have ordinary rifles, sometimes when all your units got heavy plasmas and power suits). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 04:12, 4 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
'''MY ramblings have been moved to my discussion page''' [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]<br />
<br />
==Great Circle Route==<br />
<br />
Should we have the Great Circle Route bug noted on this page at all? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 20:33, 6 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: what is the great circle route? [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 07:56, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Pick two points on a globe, then hold a thread or string taut at those two points. That practically minimizes the length of the thread/string on the globe. You're now looking at a great circle arc (or route), the shortest distance between two points on a globe. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 11:15 March 2009 (CDT)<br />
<br />
: Just as a line is the shortest distance between 2 points on a flat plane, a great circle is the shortest distance between 2 points on the surface of a sphere. The bug, by the way, is that aircraft in the game ''don't'' follow this shortest, "great circle" route. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:38, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: What a grand sounding name, for something so simple, lol. ... I thought you were talking about when you tell your soldiers to go from point A to point B, and for some reason they figure that Zone A and Zone B are really far apart, despite actually being side by side. (I shot a hole through a wall, clicked to walk to the other side, and my idiot soldier walked one big circle... to use the door! And got ambushed and killed by an alien. ... dum dum DUMB DUMB.)<br />
:: Even the more modern games have problems with their pathfinding algorythms. Admittedly, games like Baldur's Gate had to do it in realtime.<br />
:: On a semi-related note, I remember this guy called E-man, he was chasing a guided laser beam that was going to kill his girl, around the world, but he couldn't outrun it since he couldn't break the speed of light, only equal it by changing into a Laser himself. So... inspiration! He turned into a very powerful laser, and made a shortcut THROUGH THE EARTH... the straight line beats the great circle route, lol.<br />
:: Thanks for the reply guys [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:56, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Bug not listed: Missing soldiers during base defense==<br />
<br />
I encountered an interesting bug concerning base defense missions:<br />
My base got attacked while about 30 soldiers and 10 HWPs were present. The usual equipment assignment screen was skipped and the mission started instantly with only the HWPs spawned at the map. Not even a single soldier bothered to show up... *sigh*<br />
Although this turned out to be in my favor (you should have seen the puzzled Ethereals trying to panic my tanks) I´d like to avoid this bug if possible. I was able to reproduce this bug several times and with different bases. <br />
Can anyone explain this bug and/or tell me how to avoid it?<br />
<br />
Game version: Collectors edition. - [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
Well, ideally, we need to know what your base's construction was to be sure of this, but I think the most likely circumstance is that the HWPs took up all the spawn points. HWPs have maximum priority for spawning(followed by Soldiers, and then Aliens), so if you have enough of them garrisoning a base, it's entirely possible that soldiers and aliens won't spawn. However, this doesn't explain why the soldiers didn't start stealing the Alien spawn points...in any event, you might want to take the save game file, zip it up, and get ready to email it. I'm sure [[User:Zombie|Zombie]] would be quite interested. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:28, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
It's not the spawn points, it's a [[UNITPOS.DAT]] limitation. A maximum of forty records (out of the total of eighty) are allocated for your units, and tanks (which take up four records each) get first pick. Having ten tanks means there's no room left for anything else.<br />
<br />
Ditch one HWP and you should see four units take it's place. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 16:42, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
I´ll try with a decreasing number of tanks and report the results. As I wrote above having only HWPs isn´t too bad dependent on what enemy is attacking. [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
This should be mentioned in the [[ExploitsE#Base Defence Mission Spawning Issues]] section. The Bugs/Exploits really need to be sorted and consolidated. - [[User:NinthRank|NinthRank]] 16:57, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
The limitation to 40 records seems to be the case; each tank I dumped got replaced by four soldiers. <br />
So this can be used to effectively manage unit combination. Thanks for the quick replies! [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
==Bug not listed: Ufo Gold (Windows Vers. abandonia.com) crashing when plasma defense is finished==<br />
<br />
I recordnized this bug a few times now. (with hacked AND unhacked game)<br />
If i place a plasma defense in 7 bases at the same Time and they are finished at the same Time, the game crashes sometimes.<br />
In hacked game, it seems to crash even more when Alien containment is finished, plasma defense, shield defense...etc.<br />
couldnt find it here...greetz<br />
<br />
: I somehow doubt the sourcing is the issue. [You may want to fund the next XCOM series game with a Take2 re-release of UFO :)] More generally: the game only reports the construction of a given type of facility <b>once</b>, no matter how many bases it completes at simultaneously. I've only tested this <i>in vivo</i> with three-of-a-kind at once across six bases, however. It does seem reasonable that some sort of counter of undisplayed completions would "overflow" (attaining crash). -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 10:05, Feb. 28 2008 CST<br />
<br />
::I've encountered this bug myself with General Stores, actually, not just Plasma Defense(which I never build). EDIT: Some quick tests seem to show that there's a chance the game will crash any time two base facilities are done at the same time, regardless of whether they're in the same base or not or if they're the same facility.(although it seems to happen MUCH more in the event they're in different bases.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:13, 28 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested ==<br />
<br />
Just to note that I have positively tested and replicated the bugs listed under the new(ish) section [[Known Bugs#Soldier Recruiting Bugs|Soldier Recruiting Bugs]]. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:08, 19 March 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Floater Medic Bug==<br />
<br />
I have not thus far encountered the Floater Medic Bug; in fact, Floater Medics are often used to fill up my Rogue Gallery with interrogations. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:50, 24 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Strange, it would always occur in my version. I don't remember where I got it from, but I<br />
know it was a download from the internet. Using the XCom Hack v2.5, I viewed the alien in<br />
the Alien Containment edit. I now have Type (race):____, and a Rank: Soldier for the <br />
Floater Medic. It might just be corruption, but I do not have the resources to look into<br />
it. [[User:Muton commander|Muton commander]] 19:24, 12 May 2008 (Pacific Time Zone)<br />
<br />
I've never encountered it either. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 07:47, 23 July 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Strength Overflow==<br />
<br />
During one of my games with TFTD I noticed a really annoying thing happen during battles.<br />
As my troops rose up the 'stat.' ladder they got better and better (as you'd expect), until they hit about 50 strentgh and completely lost the ability to throw anything.<br />
Even trying to throw something tiny like a grenade or flare into the adjacent tile resulted in the 'Out of Range' message being displayed.<br />
<br />
Anyone come across this before?<br />
This was in TFTD CE.<br />
[[User:Tifi|Tifi]] 07:55, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:This is fairly well documented. The pathfinding algorithm for throwing objects will balk if anything is in the way of the throw and refuse to allow you to throw. What's happening is that your soldiers have become so strong that their throws are intercepting the 'ceiling' of the Battlescape(the top of L3), and as such the game thinks that the throw is blocked(because in order for the throw to complete, the object would have to be tossed up to the nonexistant L4). There's two ways around this:<br />
<br />
:The Normal Way: Try shorter throws, throwing from lower heights, or throwing while kneeling. Beyond that, possibly get some new troops.<br />
<br />
:The Sneaky Way: Manually edit the Strength scores of your soldiers in [[SOLDIER.DAT]] so that they're back to a usable strength level. If you set "Initial Strength" (offset 46 decimal or 2E hex) to 0 and "Strength Improvement" (offset 57 decimal or 39 hex) to a value of 50, you can permanently lock the soldiers at 50 strength. (You can lock them higher than that if you so choose, but not lower.<br />
<br />
:Other than this, there's no workarounds I can think of offhand. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 08:10, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: There's normally no problem with the max level of 70 in open settings. However TFTD has a lot of low ceilings such as in the shipping lane missions and colonies, and the lower ceilings impairs your throwing quite a bit. In addition to shorter throws/kneeling, try moving out from under any overhangs if there is one just above you. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 12:33, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Bug not listed: Sticking your head through the ceiling ==<br />
This is something I just discovered: When you step on a small object inside of a building your soldier sticks his/her head through the ceiling and can see what's upstairs. You can even see the soldiers head coming out of the floor and that soldiers can shoot aliens upstairs. When I did this the alien I saw/shot was facing the other way, but I guess you could get shot if the alien was facing you. [[User:RedNifre|RedNifre]] 17:34, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:That's not listed under "Bugs" because it's covered under "Exploits", right here: [[Exploiting_Collison_Detection#See_Through_A_Ceiling]] [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:26, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: I don't know if it was ever covered anywhere, but there's this neat trick that might sound similar to the walk-through-'wall object'-wall trick except that it involves your unit climbing slopes. They'll appear as though they've gone up a level, but are actually not on that level. They only visually appear to be there, but are really still on the bottom level. <br />
<br />
:: It happens a lot when walking up the desert or forest slopes. I think the trick involves standing on ground level, and then ordering the unit to 'move' into the hill rather than setting the waypoint while on level 1. The soldier will move up the slope and perhaps stop on the slope or even reach the top of the slope, but will still appear when you're only viewing the ground map layer. The soldier is really still on the ground level, but will have elevation offset. <br />
<br />
:: One really interesting way of using this trick is in the mountain region. If you can find a cliff face and a low hill nearby, you can literally have your soldier scale the cliff by standing the soldier on the hill, and then walking towards the cliff. It's ridiculous, but your soldier never quite reaches the top of the cliff tiles, so ends up walking up a slope. <br />
<br />
:: On a side note, standing at the top of the ramp of the Skyranger is the same as standing on ground level - you're only offset a bit. This means that smoke on level 1 and the sides of the Skyranger will not provide protection when you're at the top of the ramp. <br />
<br />
:: On another related note in relation: In TFTD (doesn't happen a lot in UFO), you might find it difficult to toss grenades onto underwater slopes. To remedy this, raise the level up by one. It might look like you're tossing at air(and you are), but it'll get the grenade where you want it. Odd, but true. I must remember to put this in the grenade explanation section. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:11, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Base Defence bug that causes a crash? ==<br />
<br />
Does anyone know about a bug in a base defence mission that causes the game to crash? The game keeps crashing on the 4th or 5th alien turn.<br />
<br />
:I've encountered that myself, but it should be noted that overall, X-COM is not the most stable game and is prone to crashing often at anytime. The differences between the hardware it was designed for and the hardware we're running it on cannot be helping matters at all; it's really a small miracle it even runs without an emulator in the first place(I've got games from 1999 that will bluescreen my machine instantly). As such, I'm not sure it's worth noting as a bug, since it's a 'game feature'(albeit a detrimental one). In any case, what're you doing letting the aliens attack you anyways? ;) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:33, 18 July 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Sources for a DOS4GW transplant ==<br />
<br />
I was specifically thinking of the LucasArts Dark Forces demo, but I half-recall the actual source I used when testing that ~1999 was Id's DOOM. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 16:03, 7 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Phantom Carried Casualty ==<br />
<br />
You are carrying an unconscious soldier in one hand, and the soldier dies of his/her wounds. The dead soldier remains visible on the "left hand / right hand object" battlescape display, but is no longer visible in the inventory display. The problem can be fixed by moving another object into the same hand. <br />
<br />
I've seen this bug with UFO Extender by [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] - possibly might be something to do with his manipulation of the inventory screen, rather than a general bug. I believe I've also seen this with other objects that were being carried in the hands, disappearing from the Inventory screen, but I'm not sure. I don't think it's an item limit bug, as XcomUtil shows 40 item slots free. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:58, 21 September 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Civilians As Enemies to MC'd Aliens ==<br />
<br />
I ran across this issue a few times and just wondered if you guys experienced this. I MC'd a part of a Reaper (I always do the lower left for large aliens) on a Terror Site, then moved it a few squares. It suddenly stopped dead in it's tracks and then the alien spotted indicator increased by 1. When I clicked on the indicator to see where the enemy unit was, it brought me to L2 of the large apartment complex. However, nothing was there. When I sent a Flying-Suited soldier up there to peek in the window (eeek! A peeping tom!) he saw a female civilian standing there. This type of problem has happened numerous times to me so it's not a once-off thing. Maybe it's a LOS issue? Or maybe an alien indicator problem? Or a combination of the two? Don't know, but I'm curious if you guys have seen it. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 23:40, 19 December 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:There are a lot of major issues with MC'ing 4 square aliens. One of them being that you could accidentally MC an alien far off in the corner of the map, IIRC? Anyhow, maybe you should have tried MC'ing all 4 squares of the reaper and see if that changed things. -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]<br />
<br />
The long-range MC of other aliens when Mind-Controlling large aliens is only present in Terror From The Deep, due to a workaround to try and resolve the earlier bugs(and exploits) associated with controlling one square of a large unit at the time. In TFTD, successfully MC'ing part of a Large unit will also grant you control of the next three units in UNITPOS.DAT, in order. If you didn't MC the upper left portion of the large unit(the first UNITPOS entry for any large unit), you can potentially wind up in control of other aliens. So this doesn't apply to UFO. As for Zombie's issue, never seen it. And finally...Jasonred, on Talk pages, please indent your statement with colons so it differentiates from other people's comments, and sign your posts with 4 ~'s, like I will now do. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:42, 19 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
==Elerium Base Bug==<br />
<br />
Jasonred: This bug has long since been known about. Elerium units on the Battlescape can be picked up by shooting away the power source; this one item counts as 50 units, and as such ANY elerium item spawned on any Battlescape counts as 50 Elerium. This issue with your own Elerium spawning as collectable loot in a Base Defense mission only occurs in older DOS versions, and is at the whim of the 80 item limit. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:55, 18 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Base defense does not seem to follow the 80 item limit in that DOS version. There are a lot of bugs that have long been known about. However this one was not included in the ufopedia for some reason.<br />
:Also, the main thing about this bug is that it does not potentially double your elerium stores. It potentially multiplies them 50 times.<br />
:... First time this happened to me, I was pretty flabbergasted. Here I was being conservative with my limited Elerium, refraining from blowing up UFOs when possible, when I perform a base defense and gain 3000 Elerium from it. Holy spit. -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]<br />
<br />
Alright, my error. Thanks for clarifying. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:42, 19 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
==HWP Fusion Bomb and SWS PWT Displacer Ammo Manufacturing Cost Bug==<br />
<br />
At a cost of $15000, 400 Tech hours, 5 Zrbite, and 8 Aqua Plastics, this is the exact same cost as the HWP Fusion Bomb from X-COM EU, converted over to the equivalent TFTD resources. As such, it shouldn't be counted as a bug, since it is clearly what Mythos intended. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 09:55, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
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:Hmm, in that case maybe it should be treated as a generic game engine issue and not a TFTD specific issue - but I still think it's a design error. Can you think of any logical reason why the SWS/HWP version of the ammo should be more expensive (in cost and in materials) than both the craft ammo and the (more powerful) personal ammo? It makes no logical sense. Hence I think it's a design error. Nothing can be inferred from the fact it's unchanged from XCOM-EU, that doesn't imply any deliberate decision. It could just be the replication of an original error in XCOM-EU. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 11:17, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
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:: I can think of a logical reason to justify this: X-Com doesn't understand the technology as well as the aliens do (which is obvious, given the length of time each side has known the tech). Handheld Blaster/Blaster Bombs are just a copy of the alien design and therefor relatively cheap and efficient, but that can't be mounted on a turret. So X-Com has to make a new design, and they obviously didn't do that good a job as the aliens would have done. This explains Tank/Plasma being weaker than Heavy Plasma too. (Why is FBL Craft ammo cheaper than the tank ammo though? Maybe X-Com gave up on/simplified the guidance system and made it just a "dumb" cannon shell/torpedo instead which doesn't have multiple waypoints? Or maybe they just did a better job there?). [[User:Cesium|Cesium]] 04:07, 25 November 2009 (EST)<br />
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:Whilst we discuss it, I'll park my original text in here:<br />
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* ''Displacer/PWT ammo cost bug - at over $100,000 total cost per round, the ammunition for this SWS weapon is far more expensive to manufacture (both in money and rare materials) than the equivalent ammo for the Aquanaut-carried Disruptor Pulse Launcher, or the craft-based Pulse Wave Torpedo, despite being less powerful than either. This would seem to be a design mistake.''<br />
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See Also [[Talk:Displacer/PWT]]<br />
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:: I don't like the higher cost either, but I think it's a tradeoff of expense and quality for the convenience of portability. Sort of like an MP3 player to the gramophone... or maybe that's not a good comparison. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 13:43, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
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A better comparison might be a desktop computer to a laptop. As a general rule, laptops are more expensive, but a similarly priced desktop gives you more power. Desktops are cheaper and offer power, laptops are more expensive and offer portability(though the gap is rapidly narrowing). [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:49, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
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:I think those are good analogies. But they don't apply in this case. To continue your analogies: We are paying mainframe prices for a clunky desktop that has only laptop processing power, and we're buying a mainframe for desktop prices. The vehicle version ("desktop") - is ''less'' portable and ''less'' powerful than the personal version (DPL = "laptop"), ''less'' capable than the craft version ("mainframe") - and costs ''more'' than either of the others in total cash and in materials. In particular, it makes no sense that the small missiles on the SWS use up ''more'' of both Zrbite and Aqua Plastics than the Craft version. Do we really think it's logical that a tactical battlefield round, less powerful than its man-carried equivalent, takes more explosive and structural material to produce than both the more powerful man-carried version and also more than the air-to-air round that has 60km range and can take down a major alien combat craft? There is a clearly perverse bang-per-buck here, on every measure. My sincere belief is that this was an original mistake in the XCOM-EU engine that got copied into TFTD as well. The craft round should have the higher base price, but the material requirements that are currently assigned to the SWS/HWP round. It's debatable whether the SWS/HWP rounds should be more expensive than the man-carried rounds. But what I don't think is debatable is that is not logical for the SWS/HWP rounds to be more expensive than the craft rounds. It's clearly a mistake. Even in game balance terms, the only thing the HWP/SWS rounds have going for them is conserving "80-Item Limit" space, which I severely doubt was ever a game design consideration since it's just an awkward programming compromise. Any advantage inherent in the HWP/SWS is already reflected in the very high platform cost - there is no need to inflate the ammo costs as well. The bottom line is that a round for a (mini-)tank does not cost more, does not use more materials, than the same type of round for a long range anti-aircraft weapon that has much greater damage capacity and penetrating capacity. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:35, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
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I'm going to add this to the bug list now. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 16:06, 25 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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:Still don't think this is a bug though. Just because it's more expensive to manufacture than the hand-held or craft-mounted ammo, it doesn't mean the stats are wrong. Perhaps the programmers wanted to balance the tactical portion of the game a little more by making the ammo cost more for tanks. It doesn't have to be logical to be intended. Now if you had proof which said that the ammo was supposed to cost less but the stats were wrong, then yes, I'd agree. So if you boil it all down it comes to a disparate logic issue, not a bug.--[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:31, 25 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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::I have to side with Zombie here. While the ammo may be disproportionately expensive, by the definition used on the rest of the page for bug, it doesn't fit. All the other bugs are errors in program logic or function or routines that are unintentional problems with the game, most of which are not warned of ahead of time. The ammo for the tank costs exactly what is listed and operates entirely as intended, whereas the rest of the bugs are not intended game features. Even if the numbers were entered wrong, that would be a data entry error, not a program bug. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:28, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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:If it was a data entry error, I'd consider that a type of bug... assuming we had proof of the goof so to speak. LOL. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 00:49, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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:: It feels too specific an entry to be a data entry error. <br />
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:: I'm reminded of the high explosive. I know, I know - it's not an exact parallel to the FBL issue. A High Explosive is practically two grenades. Double weight, double bulk. Slightly above two times the damage. However, it costs five times the price of a standard grenade. Even though you're paying more for not-as-much, I don't think that could be considered a bug. A rip off, yes, but not a bug. <br />
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:: Here's a thought: Think about the immediate benefits each of the two controversial ammo types give back to you. Aircraft ammo = activity points. Tank ammo = loot. Yes, I know that aircraft ammo also generate crash sites, but you still have the ground combat to contend with. <br />
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:: One other thought: With careful management of your ammo, you'll probably never spend any elerium on the handheld version's ammo. Could it be the handheld that's really at issue here rather than the others? In the end I feel that it doesn't really matter. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:38, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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: I'm with Zombie that a data entry error is a bug (we have other examples), but also agree some proof is probably needed. And I agree with NKF that in the scheme of things, it doesn't really matter much. I don't think the HE pack is a good comparison (though the HE pack should be heavier) as it's reasonable to pay disprortionately more to get additional power at the same tech level. The fusion weapons are a case of paying more to actually get ''less'' power. I am not bothered by the handheld vs vehicle balance, not least because the game generally makes handheld weapons better than their vehicle equivalents, so I can accept that as an across-the-board design decision. <br />
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: I can also see a game balance argument ''if'' we believe that Fusion Tank ammo is more of an overall game-winning weapon than craft Fusion Bombs. But I'm not sure I agree with that statement. And even if it's true, and there's a game balance argument (in which case it would apply equally to handheld Fusion launchers), it's still illogical. The less powerful, battlefield warhead should not cost massively more in exotic materials than the much more powerful air to air warhead that brings down Battleships. I agree though that just because it's illogical does not prove it's a bug (i.e. unintended). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 07:48, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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Ok we more or less seem to be in agreement that this isn't a bug, but it is very confusing/illogical. Maybe we can shift the "bug" text from the article page and roll that into the [[Hovertank/Launcher]] and [[Displacer /P. W. T.]] pages now. Feel free to combine any text from the discussion above if necessary. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 09:22, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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: Unless we can ''prove'' it's a data entry error (unlikely), how about calling it an "Anomaly" instead of a bug? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 10:59, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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Looks like plain old game imbalance to me.<br />
The way I see it, Hovertank Plasma and Launcher were meant to be stronger. Much much stronger. Let's look at Tank Cannon, Launcher and Laser. The logic is that it's a tank mounted weapon, so the tank can carry a much larger and more powerful version of the same weapon, right?<br />
It's pretty stupid that a Hovertank Plasma is weaker than the Heavy Plasma... you could just mount a Heavy Plasma on a Hovertank and get them exactly equal. In fact, I suspect that the hovertanks were ALSO meant to have more powerful weapons than the man-portable versions.<br />
Unfortunatly, the game designers then realised that this made the hovertanks far too powerful. So... the programmers nerfed the power of the hovertank weapons. BUT they forgot to lower the ammo costs. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 11:20, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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: Well you are opening up a much larger issue there. The Fusion weapons are an anomaly, an inconsistency. But handheld weapons are more powerful than equivalent vehicle weapons across the board, consistently. So that looks like a deliberate design decision, not a mistake. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:33, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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:: There are two exceptions to the rule: Tank/Cannon: 60AP vs. Heavy Cannon 56AP. Tank/Laser: 110 Laser vs. Heavy Laser: 85 Laser. The hovertank\plasma only differs by a measly 5 (an extra 0 - 10 damage, which means a lot vs. UFO inner hull armour). I guess the trend here was to moderate the area effect tank strengths. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:22, 26 February 2009 (CST) <br />
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I'd have to agree with you there Spike. This wasn't a mistake, however odd it may seem. It was a deliberate attempt to try and balance the game. Below is a table I created ages ago for my (now defunct) strategy guide detailing the HWP's and what handheld weapon corresponds to it. When you stick them side-by-side, it really becomes apparent that the programmers were trying to base the HWP weapons off the handheld weapons somewhat. The only thing that doesn't follow a nice and distinct scheme is the damage. That's what is the clincher. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:26, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br><br />
<table {{StdCenterTable}} class="sortable"><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left" width="150">Tank Type</th><th width="70">DAM</th><th width="80">Snap</th><th width="90">Aimed</th><th width="90">Aimed</th><th width="80">Snap</th><th width="70">DAM</th><th align="right" width="140">Handheld</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Tank/Cannon</th><td>60</td><td>60%</td><td>90%</td><td>90%</td><td>60%</td><td>56<sup>1</sup></td><th align="right">Heavy Cannon</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Rocket Launcher</th><td>85</td><td>55%</td><td>115%</td><td>115%</td><td>55%</td><td>87.5<sup>2</sup></td><th align="right">Rocket Launcher</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Laser Cannon</th><td>110</td><td>50%</td><td>85%</td><td>84%</td><td>50%</td><td>85</td><th align="right">Heavy Laser</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Hovertank/Plasma</th><td>110</td><td>85%</td><td>100%</td><td>100%</td><td>86%</td><td>80</td><th align="right">Plasma Rifle</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Hovertank/Launch</th><td>140</td><td>--%</td><td>120%</td><td>120%</td><td>--%</td><td>200</td><th align="right">Blaster Launcher</th></tr> <br />
</table><br />
<sup>1</sup>AP rounds.<br><br />
<sup>2</sup>Average between the Small and Large Rocket.<br />
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<br />
: Hold up! Tank rounds do 60AP. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:22, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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So what's wrong? The table says 60 for the Tank/Cannon and 56 for HC-AP. Those are correct, no? --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 23:41, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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: Sorry, didn't realise it was two tables side by side (or rather mirrored). Eyes only noticed the left side of the table. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:53, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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:: If the Hovertank Launcher did 200 damage, or worse if the Hovertank Launcher did EVEN MORE damage than the Blaster Launcher... that would make them easily the most deadly things on the map. As it is, the hovertank launcher is already pretty overpowered, even with 140 power.<br />
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== DOS4GW - What the heck is it? ==<br />
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It's been ages since I had to remember this stuff, so those who remember clearer than I do, forgive me if my descriptions aren't accurate. Hopefully the general idea will come across. <br />
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Back in ye olde days of computere gamynge - and where there were more E's to go around, memory handling was a tricky beast to handle. Computer memory is divided into several different categories. Conventional, extended and I think expanded. I might be jumbling the terminologies for the last two a bit. Doesn't matter - memory was just cut up into small segments. The two most common memory types to PCs at the time were pretty small but were readily available. The third one - the most expandable (aka the chip with its massive 4 Megs of RAM you just spent your whole month's allowance on!), wasn't as easy to get at. <br />
<br />
To get access to the higher memory that was available to the computer, special memory handlers had to be used. Drivers like HIMEM, emm386, etc were used. <br />
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DOS4GW is one such handler that lets the game access the computer's available expanded memory. Lots of games that came out at the time use this. Doom, Duke Nukem 3d, Syndicate, Ultima Underworld, X-Com UFO/TFTD, etc. LOTS of games. Any time you ran a game from the dos console and you saw the Dos4GW message flash by briefly it would be assisted by it (well, it stayed on the screen for ages back when processors were slower!). <br />
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It took the hassle out of memory handling and let the game access the available memory on the computer as one big flat block of memory to play with. <br />
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So what was meant in the article was to simply replace the dos4gw.exe with a more up-to-date version from another game. I think the way to tell its version was just in the message that it displayed. You can just run the dos4gw.exe file in a console window. It'll give an error, but the message it shows will indicate its version. UFO 1.4 uses Dos4gw 1.95, for example. <br />
<br />
-[[User:NKF|NKF]] 01:22, 6 March 2009 (CST)<br />
:DOS4GW also switched the processor from 16bit to 32bit mode. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 13:58, 6 March 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
== Clipping ==<br />
I have a new bug. Its harmless. I have a savegame (EU CE - modified game) which has a sectoid within another sectoid. In the alien turn, one secturd walked off the roof and dropped down <s>onto</s> into another. (I guess there DNA is indentical afterall, so they 'become one' with the world). If you want the savegame (superhuman edited using UFOloader, UFO Mod v1, xcomed, Khor Chin WeapEdit v0.1) drop me a request on the my page somewhere. [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]] 01:40, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
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: Not something many would encounter, but definitely something that can happen. Units can occupy the same physical space, but the game cannot display them all. It'll only draw one of them. Actually saw this effect happen back in the early days of XComutil when it gained the ability to manually add new aliens into a battlescape. It did this by slotting them into the same spaces occupied by existing aliens. Then the fun would happen when you saw a couple of Mutons suddenly walk out of a sectoid. Not sure how the game determines who gets hurt when struck by a bullet. May very well depend on the order they are stored in the unitpos.dat file. <br />
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: There are a couple of ways you can replicate this in-game, but I can only provide theories on how you could do it. Such as shooting the ceiling above you and letting the unit drop through, or moving a tank off a ledge and getting its non-primary segments land directly on top of another unit. By the way, the rear end of tanks get stuck in walls if you attempt to move north or east off any ledges. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:18, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
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: Ok, so as long as others know about this, then all is good. I had never seen it and was doing alot of head scratching until I shot the alien.<br />
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== Berserk HWP crashes the game ==<br />
In the article page it mentions that aliens which go berserk with their integrated weapons will crash the game. This is only true for Mind Controlled aliens (or units under X-COM control) - alien controlled units which go berserk do not crash the game. I tested an MC'd Celatid just now and it doesn't crash the game either, though it doesn't immediately go berserk - it waits another turn for some odd reason. Someone want to check this to verify my results? --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:31, 27 December 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== 80-items limit on CE edition ==<br />
<br />
I have the feeling that the 80-items limit does not apply to the CE edition and is instead a 110-items limit (at least during base defence). Can anyone confirm? [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 16:24, 24 February 2010 (EST)<br />
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:I believe this limit was increased for TFTD. Maybe it was also increased for the CE edition of UFO, and only ever applied to the DOS edition of UFO?? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:03, 11 March 2010 (EST)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Base_Defence&diff=33624Base Defence2011-05-13T02:38:32Z<p>Jasonred: /* Bugs */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Briefing==<br />
An Alien vessel has landed nearby. Our base is in severe danger. As per standard procedure all non-combat personnel and X-COM craft have been evacuated. Alien units will enter the base via hangar doors or the access lift. Defend the base and its vital installations at all costs - this is a fight to the death.<br />
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"this is a fight to the death" - implies that when you hit Abandon Mission, Xcom forces decide it is better to die and take the enemy with them, rather than admit defeat, and blow the base up.<br />
<br />
== Battleships ==<br />
<br />
An inbound [[Battleship]] on a "[[Alien Missions#Alien Retaliation|Retaliation]]" mission means there is a high chance that a Base Defense mission is in the offing for you. These ships will come in at a very low altitude and at their top speed. They obviously do not care about the well being of the craft, to run it that hard in a full atmosphere!<br />
<br />
You can bring down these battleships with sufficient [[Base Defense Measures]], but the game is programmed to just send another on the exact same mission. (To be precise, the game does not check/remove the "Xcom Base detected, send in the battleship" flag). <br />
It has been proven that about 6 or 7 [[Fusion Ball Defences]] with [[Grav Shield]] (total defensive strength 6000) can hold off incoming battleships (hull strength 3000) indefinitely, but since you get no bonus for blowing a battleship out of the sky, not even to monthly score, it is better to let them land eventually and just run the mission. Once you've run the mission, win or lose, the attacks stop coming. The aliens seem to forget where the base is...<br />
Blowing the battleship out of the sky with Aircraft Interception ALSO seems to uncheck the Battleship assault flag, so keep that in mind.<br />
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Only battleships actually assault your base. Don't worry too much about other alien craft on "Retaliation" missions, they're just scouts. Shooting these down far away from your base may confuse the aliens as to where your base actually is. Shooting them down will also ruin their base finding mission, saving your base until the next scout is sent to replace the first.<br />
<br />
If you decide to dismantle the base while there is a battleship enroute to attack it, the battle ship will head for that base's ex-location anyhow. It will then realise it's been duped, BUT, after consulting it's alien masters, will simply head to the next closest base. In a straight line, top speed. HOWEVER, once it arrives there, it will realise that they only have the lift access codes to your old base, and will then simply hang there hovering over your base for ages and ages. In fact, this is due to the nature of the code which sends out the scouts. If successful, it sets the "aliens know where base is" flag, and applies it to the next battleship launched on a retaliation mission. This flag is only removed after a battleship actually manages to land and send troops inside your base. This flag is not removed by base defence blowing up battleships, craft blowing up battleships (I think), or, as I just mentioned, by removing that base entirely. Nor is this flag restricted to that base in particular.<br />
<br />
== Battle Tips ==<br />
<br />
A good [[Base Layout Strategy]] is of paramount importance here. Make sure your base is designed to make it easy to defend.<br />
<br />
You really want everybody at home for a base defense mission. If you're caught with your Skyranger off at some UFO crash site, you'll have to defend the base with a rookie, two guys on crutches that were in med-bay, and the antique [[Tank/Cannon]] you hadn't got around to selling yet. And in Collector's Edition, you don't get to use the injured guys in med-bay. Even worse, if you don't have a single soldier who is fit for duty, you lose the base automatically. Yes, even if you have 10 Ace soldiers who only have 1 day of recovery remaining, 10 Hovertank Launchers and 5 Hovertank Plasma, and you managed to *almost* destroy the incoming battleship with your 6000 defence strength... you still automatically lose.<br />
<br />
Losing or abandoning the battle means losing the base, and everything in it. Although sometimes you can still come out with a positive score for your trouble. <br />
Any aircraft which are assigned to this base will be lost... even if they are outside the base at the time. Your Interceptor enroute for shootdown will abruptly self destruct. Your Skyranger with your best soldiers returning from a successful Alien Base Assault will crash and burn.<br />
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In battle, the odds are in your favor. You know the layout, it's fully lit (even the Hangars give 20 tiles of vision, despite visual effects to the contrary), and you (should have) designed in choke points. <br />
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Equipment assigned to your craft is available for base defense missions, unless the craft is out of the base. Equipment loaded on craft in the base becomes part of the general 80-item pool. If it were otherwise, your psionic troopers would likely be useless for want of Psi-amps.<br />
<br />
Battleships will unload both regular aliens and their associated [[Terror Units]]. You won't ever see the battleship, but you will get to see all those nifty modules you've been constructing in the Base Planner view, close-up! Base modules have two levels. Soldiers will normally spawn/start in Living Quarters and Storage modules. Aliens spawn/start in Hangars and the Access Lift.<br />
<br />
A soldier with a [[Motion Scanner]] in an upstairs closet near the access lift combined with a [[Tank/Rocket_Launcher|rocket tank]] at standoff range will keep the aliens at bay until the rockets run out. ''-see also [Stewart's] strategy on xcomufo.com forums.''<br />
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[[Blaster Bomb]]s can clear your base in just a few turns, if you launch a few into the hangars and access lift. ''The problem is getting the program to supply your soldiers with blaster bombs before hitting the 80-item limit.''<br />
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Hovertank/Launchers are almost as good at clearing out your base, except for the fact that their missiles are more prone to inaccuracy and often veer off and blow up against the wrong walls. ''Since the game has a "free ammo for HWP in base defence" bug, I don't see HOW you can lose as long as you keep 3-4 of these things in every base.''<br />
<br />
Doing too much damage to a room can also [[#Destruction Of Base Facilities|collapse it]], and you will lose that room permanently. Any rooms that can only be accessed by going through the collapsed room will also be lost. Spawn-point rooms such as Living Quarters, Stores, Access Lift, and Hangars (plus the Alien Containment chamber) can't be collapsed.<br />
<br />
You can recover lots of alien weapons from a successful base defense. In at least one version of the game, there is a bug where you can collect an extraordinary amount of Elerium, enough to start <i>selling</i> it.<br />
<br />
It might be best to disarm all your psi-weak soldiers at this base if there are Ethereals or Sectoids attacking.<br />
<br />
If you built a General Stores near the Access Lift, the double doors are a great place for ambushing aliens as they leave the Access Lift. Each chamber will hold two soldiers. Eight soldiers stepping out and firing one or two bursts of laser or plasma shots will almost guarantee that no alien penetrates further into your base. Also, so long as no soldiers or tanks are visible during the aliens' turn, they will not make psi attacks (visible to any alien, not just the psionic alien). The [[Destroying Terrain#Terrain structures|doors]] have a damage rating of 75, which means they will withstand an alien grenade detonated right beside them. This tactic has one downside against Sectoids: Cyberdisks will explode when killed at the chokepoint and destroy a large proportion of the loot.<br />
<br />
Alien Weaponry that has been researched can be used for Base Defense even if it's ammunition has NOT been researched. In other Missions you simply cannot load the ammo in your transport, but when defending a base this is not necessary. The clips will be labeled as alien artifacts, but can be used as if research was finished (except that it cannot be thrown).<br />
<br />
''[A somewhat unorthodox strategy, forced by necessity, paid off for Zombie: "I armed my best soldiers with the stun rods, hid them in the General Stores next to the Access Lift, and went to work. Every round a Snakeman would appear from the Access Lift, and every round one of my soldiers would stun the alien while another veteran grabbed the body and hauled the poor alien upstairs for observation. I was laughing so hard I almost peed my pants!" - as copied from strategycore. Mental picture of a Snakeman with a pillowcase over his head, zipcuffed arms behind his back, old army sock stuffed in the mouth, being heaved into a darkened storeroom on top of his buddies. "We get $20K for each, alive or dead, right?" --[[User:JellyfishGreen|JellyfishGreen]] 08:34, 14 Oct 2005 (PDT) ]''<br />
<br />
== To Surrender or Not To Surrender ==<br />
<br />
There are only two costs incurred when you lose a base:<br />
# You lose the base and everything in it;<br />
# You lose points for the soldiers and tanks that died defending the base. <br />
<br />
The loss of the base is presumably erased from the annals of history. It's all kept very hush-hush from the public. The non-combat staff and all ships that were at the base are disbanded and are not lost in the battle. X-Com ships vanish without a trace, probably stolen by wretched engineers. The deaths of the soldiers on the other hand are a lot harder to explain, and friends and families are bound to make inquiries. <br />
<br />
Therefore, if you find yourself in a situation where you are defending a base against an enemy that you have no hope of winning against, should you surrender without a fight, or fight it out? You will need to base this on who you are fighting with and what you have to fight them with. <br />
<br />
For example, a fresh batch of recruits in jumpsuits armed with regulation standard pistols and rifles against an elite squad of [[Ethereal]]s and [[Sectopod]]s. This can be classed as a hopeless battle should you not be able to utilise the weapons used by the attackers. In a situation like this, you should cut your losses and surrender without a fight. <br />
This will incur a 0 point penalty along with the loss of the base. <br />
<br />
On the other hand, should it be against [[Floater]]s, you could push on and try your luck. <br />
<br />
Alternately, you could also try to kill as many raiders as you can before surrendering. <br />
As long as you did not lose any soldiers in the process, you will get a positive score for losing the base. If this is an option, go for it. If not, don't.<br />
<br />
It is understandable that some commanders may be too proud to go down without a fight. There is nothing wrong with that, but do try to consider the consequences of any actions before taking them. <br />
<br />
'''Note:''' All of the above relates to raids on bases when you have more than one base. If you are put into a situation where you cannot save your very last base, then you should consider restarting the game.<br />
<br />
<br />
''If you have have advance warning about a base raid that you're going to surrender-- i.e., a hyperwave decoder, or you can see that battleship making a beeline for your base on a normal radar-- take the time to transfer as much as you can out of that base to other bases before the raid hits. <br />
If you've got free hangars in other bases, transfer the craft, save any elerium there, and transfer out all the personnel you can. <br />
An obvious thing, but can be quickly forgotten in the shadow of a battleship. --[[User:Papa Legba|Papa Legba]] 17:36, 22 Nov 2005 (PST)''<br />
:You should always transfer pretty much EVERYTHING out of a base even if you expect to win easily. In base defense missions you WILL hit the 80 item cap. You need to thin out your extra gear before the aliens get there by selling the stuff you don't really need and transferring the stuff you want to keep. You don't want to defend with just smoke grenades and electro-flares. My tiny radar bases always have a general stores for that purpose.--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 01:06, 11 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
''As stated earlier, the aliens can attack your base pretty early (especially on superhuman; For example, I got my first raid before laser pistol research was done!) - pistols and grenades may work well against sectoids, but are pretty worthless against cyberdiscs - still, even in this case, the answer should be clearly "not to surrender!" - In the early stage of the game, there are two ways of winning against cyberdiscs: first: get a soldier to stand near it and provoke a reaction shot by a different alien and hope it hits the disc, leads to its death and doesnt let it explode. Or just stun it - 2-3 soldiers with stun rods do a great job there, especially in a base with its plenty of cover.. '' [[User: Player11]] 23:47, 23 oct 2006<br />
<br />
==Alien Deployment==<br />
<table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left">Rank</th><br />
<th>Beg./Exp.</th><br />
<th>Vet./Gen.</th><br />
<th>Super.</th></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Soldiers</td><td>4-8</td><td>6-10</td><td>8-12</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Navigators*</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>2</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Medics* ** ***</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>2</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Engineers*</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>2</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Leaders***</td><td>1</td><td>2</td><td>3</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Commanders***</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>1</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Terrorists</td><td>0-2</td><td>2-4</td><td>4-6</td></tr><br />
<tr><th>Totals</th><td>9-15</td><td>14-20</td><td>22-28</td></tr><br />
</table><br /><br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki>Ethereals use Ethereal Leaders in place of Navigators, Medics, and Engineers.<br><br />
<nowiki>**</nowiki>Snakemen use Snakeman Soldiers in place of Medics.<br><br />
<nowiki>***</nowiki>Mutons use Muton Soldiers in place of Medics, Leaders and Commanders.<br />
<br />
== Destruction Of Base Facilities ==<br />
<br />
Excessive damage to the structure of your base can result in some [[Base Facilities (EU)|modules]] being completely destroyed, ''even if'' you win the overall battle.<br />
<br />
Certain modules have "special" tiles in them, and if ''all'' of these are visibly damaged (or completely obliterated), then that module will be considered lost. Furthermore, if any other modules used the destroyed areas for passage to the access lift, they'll be forfeit as well!<br />
<br />
Fortunately, these tiles only exist on the upper floors of your base, and the aliens make no attempt to target them. While explosions on the lower floors may damage the upper flooring, they leave the ''furnishings'' unscathed - ''even if'' the floor gives way completely, they'll still hang safely in midair. Presumably the builders had the foresight to attach them to the ceiling with wires.<br />
<br />
For example, the [[Fusion Ball Defences]] contain eight gun arrays made up of four tiles each. All 32 of these must be destroyed in order to take out the module.<br />
<br />
<table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th>Module</th><th>Targets</th><th>Module</th><th>Targets</th></tr><br />
<tr><td>[[Grav Shield]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-gravshield.gif]]</td><td>[[Small Radar System]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-smallradar.gif]]</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>[[Hyper-wave Decoder]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-hyperwave.gif]]</td><td>[[Workshop]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-workshop.gif]]</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>[[Laboratory]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-laboratory.gif]]</td><td>[[Missile Defences]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-missile.gif]]</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>[[Large Radar System]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-largeradar.gif]]</td><td>[[Laser Defences]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-laser.gif]]</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>[[Mind Shield]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-mindshield.gif]]</td><td>[[Plasma Defences]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-plasma.gif]]</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>[[Psionic Laboratory]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-psilab.gif]]</td><td>[[Fusion Ball Defences]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-fusion.gif]]</td></tr><br />
</table><br /><br />
<br />
The remaining modules - the [[Access Lift]], [[Alien Containment]], [[General Stores]], [[Hangar]] and [[Living Quarters]] - are completely indestructible, and can take any amount of damage without danger of collapse.<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
Base defenses can be DEADLY.<br />
<br />
But not for the reason you think.<br />
<br />
*When you have more than 80 items present at a base, the game will only make available the first 80 items on the stores list (See '80-item Limit' in [[Known Bugs]].) . This will result in conventional weapons/stun rods/electroflares/etc. being available instead of lasers/plasmas. To prevent this there are 3 possible solutions before that Battleship strikes the base: <br />
1) Transfer the unwanted items to another base.<br><br />
2) Load your transports (if there's any) with the unwanted items and launch them before the UFO lands. This saves the work of having to transfer those items back but if the base gets destroyed the transport will disappear and the waypoint to which it was headed will remain visible for the rest of the game. <br><br />
3) [[Spring_Cleaning_Tips|Sell unnecessary stuff]]. ''"Imminent Alien Invasion Yard Sale! Everything Must Go!"''<br />
<br />
* If you had 40 heavy plasmas in your base and forgot to get rid of those 40 smoke grenades, all your troopers would be lacking the clips for the heavy plasma. Good luck defending a base with nothing but 40 smoke grenades. ''[Darksun: Lucky for my stupid self, I had a couple of laser tanks to convince the aliens to lend me some ammo.]''<br />
<br />
* A relatively easy way to counter this problem is to keep your stores of "conventional" weapons low and keep 20 or more [[Laser Rifle]]s in base inventories. Laser Rifles are high on the inventory list and are distributed before most other items. As they do not require ammo, any laser is immediately combat-ready.<br />
<br />
*Another ANNOYING bug I find is the disappearing bodies and booty from aliens. This is related to the 80 item bug problem.<br />
<br />
*Also much feared is the dreaded "walled off section" or [[Known_Bugs#Base_Disjoint_Bug|Base Disjoint Bug]]. Sections of your base along the extreme south and east edges will often be separated from each other by dirt walls. Heavy plasma and blaster launchers are needed in this scenario to excavate the dirt. Soldiers spawning in Stores or Living Quarters here may be trapped for the duration.<br />
<br />
*A much nicer bug is that [[Heavy Weapons Platforms|HWP]]'s automatically get a free load of ammo (which is added to your stores if unused). Note you still need at least one soldier as aliens landing at an unguarded base - or a base defended only by HWP's - take it without a fight.<br />
<br />
*If you have a combination of many soldiers and few spawn points, soldiers will start taking alien spawn points. Which usually means less aliens (unless you built a lot of hangars).<br />
<br />
*The last point also applies to aliens: if the aliens don't have enough spawn points they will start using the X-COM ones, which can turn base defense into a nightmare!<br />
<br />
Masochists: at superhuman, you get the same quantity of aliens as in the battleship, e.g. +25 aliens, +8 terror units. To get the full compliment to attack your base, you need AT MINIMUM 2 hangars. (Unless you want aliens to spawn in general stores downstairs corridor). Four hangars guarantee maximum alien load if you use 15 soldiers and conservative loadouts. ''I usually defend with 10 guys, 2 tanks VS four hangars. LasR ''<br />
<br />
* On a related note, Xcom can only have a maximum of 40 soldiers on base defence. HWPs are prioritized and will be spawned before any soldiers. Each HWP counts as 4 soldiers. Therefore a base with 9 HWPs will only spawn 4 soldiers. Having 10 HWPs in base might cause your game to crash. (it will attempt to create the Equip Soldier screen but will face problems).<br />
<br />
*Elerium collection from a base defence mission can only happen if elerium pods are generated in the battlescape. If you have 10 units in storage, the game will generate 10 pods in the base, given sufficient space in the object table. But because the way the game automatically converts 1 pod into 50 units at the end of the mission, you're basically getting 5000% more elerium from your own pods (those that don't get destroyed, anyway). None of them come from the aliens! This will only happen in earlier versions of the game.<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
<br />
*[[X-Com Base Terrain]]<br />
*[[Base Layout Strategy]]<br />
*[[Alien Retaliation]]<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Mission Types Navbar}}<br />
[[Category:Missions]]<br />
[[Category: Tactics]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Base_Defence&diff=33623Base Defence2011-05-13T02:31:27Z<p>Jasonred: /* Battle Tips */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Briefing==<br />
An Alien vessel has landed nearby. Our base is in severe danger. As per standard procedure all non-combat personnel and X-COM craft have been evacuated. Alien units will enter the base via hangar doors or the access lift. Defend the base and its vital installations at all costs - this is a fight to the death.<br />
<br />
"this is a fight to the death" - implies that when you hit Abandon Mission, Xcom forces decide it is better to die and take the enemy with them, rather than admit defeat, and blow the base up.<br />
<br />
== Battleships ==<br />
<br />
An inbound [[Battleship]] on a "[[Alien Missions#Alien Retaliation|Retaliation]]" mission means there is a high chance that a Base Defense mission is in the offing for you. These ships will come in at a very low altitude and at their top speed. They obviously do not care about the well being of the craft, to run it that hard in a full atmosphere!<br />
<br />
You can bring down these battleships with sufficient [[Base Defense Measures]], but the game is programmed to just send another on the exact same mission. (To be precise, the game does not check/remove the "Xcom Base detected, send in the battleship" flag). <br />
It has been proven that about 6 or 7 [[Fusion Ball Defences]] with [[Grav Shield]] (total defensive strength 6000) can hold off incoming battleships (hull strength 3000) indefinitely, but since you get no bonus for blowing a battleship out of the sky, not even to monthly score, it is better to let them land eventually and just run the mission. Once you've run the mission, win or lose, the attacks stop coming. The aliens seem to forget where the base is...<br />
Blowing the battleship out of the sky with Aircraft Interception ALSO seems to uncheck the Battleship assault flag, so keep that in mind.<br />
<br />
Only battleships actually assault your base. Don't worry too much about other alien craft on "Retaliation" missions, they're just scouts. Shooting these down far away from your base may confuse the aliens as to where your base actually is. Shooting them down will also ruin their base finding mission, saving your base until the next scout is sent to replace the first.<br />
<br />
If you decide to dismantle the base while there is a battleship enroute to attack it, the battle ship will head for that base's ex-location anyhow. It will then realise it's been duped, BUT, after consulting it's alien masters, will simply head to the next closest base. In a straight line, top speed. HOWEVER, once it arrives there, it will realise that they only have the lift access codes to your old base, and will then simply hang there hovering over your base for ages and ages. In fact, this is due to the nature of the code which sends out the scouts. If successful, it sets the "aliens know where base is" flag, and applies it to the next battleship launched on a retaliation mission. This flag is only removed after a battleship actually manages to land and send troops inside your base. This flag is not removed by base defence blowing up battleships, craft blowing up battleships (I think), or, as I just mentioned, by removing that base entirely. Nor is this flag restricted to that base in particular.<br />
<br />
== Battle Tips ==<br />
<br />
A good [[Base Layout Strategy]] is of paramount importance here. Make sure your base is designed to make it easy to defend.<br />
<br />
You really want everybody at home for a base defense mission. If you're caught with your Skyranger off at some UFO crash site, you'll have to defend the base with a rookie, two guys on crutches that were in med-bay, and the antique [[Tank/Cannon]] you hadn't got around to selling yet. And in Collector's Edition, you don't get to use the injured guys in med-bay. Even worse, if you don't have a single soldier who is fit for duty, you lose the base automatically. Yes, even if you have 10 Ace soldiers who only have 1 day of recovery remaining, 10 Hovertank Launchers and 5 Hovertank Plasma, and you managed to *almost* destroy the incoming battleship with your 6000 defence strength... you still automatically lose.<br />
<br />
Losing or abandoning the battle means losing the base, and everything in it. Although sometimes you can still come out with a positive score for your trouble. <br />
Any aircraft which are assigned to this base will be lost... even if they are outside the base at the time. Your Interceptor enroute for shootdown will abruptly self destruct. Your Skyranger with your best soldiers returning from a successful Alien Base Assault will crash and burn.<br />
<br />
In battle, the odds are in your favor. You know the layout, it's fully lit (even the Hangars give 20 tiles of vision, despite visual effects to the contrary), and you (should have) designed in choke points. <br />
<br />
Equipment assigned to your craft is available for base defense missions, unless the craft is out of the base. Equipment loaded on craft in the base becomes part of the general 80-item pool. If it were otherwise, your psionic troopers would likely be useless for want of Psi-amps.<br />
<br />
Battleships will unload both regular aliens and their associated [[Terror Units]]. You won't ever see the battleship, but you will get to see all those nifty modules you've been constructing in the Base Planner view, close-up! Base modules have two levels. Soldiers will normally spawn/start in Living Quarters and Storage modules. Aliens spawn/start in Hangars and the Access Lift.<br />
<br />
A soldier with a [[Motion Scanner]] in an upstairs closet near the access lift combined with a [[Tank/Rocket_Launcher|rocket tank]] at standoff range will keep the aliens at bay until the rockets run out. ''-see also [Stewart's] strategy on xcomufo.com forums.''<br />
<br />
[[Blaster Bomb]]s can clear your base in just a few turns, if you launch a few into the hangars and access lift. ''The problem is getting the program to supply your soldiers with blaster bombs before hitting the 80-item limit.''<br />
<br />
Hovertank/Launchers are almost as good at clearing out your base, except for the fact that their missiles are more prone to inaccuracy and often veer off and blow up against the wrong walls. ''Since the game has a "free ammo for HWP in base defence" bug, I don't see HOW you can lose as long as you keep 3-4 of these things in every base.''<br />
<br />
Doing too much damage to a room can also [[#Destruction Of Base Facilities|collapse it]], and you will lose that room permanently. Any rooms that can only be accessed by going through the collapsed room will also be lost. Spawn-point rooms such as Living Quarters, Stores, Access Lift, and Hangars (plus the Alien Containment chamber) can't be collapsed.<br />
<br />
You can recover lots of alien weapons from a successful base defense. In at least one version of the game, there is a bug where you can collect an extraordinary amount of Elerium, enough to start <i>selling</i> it.<br />
<br />
It might be best to disarm all your psi-weak soldiers at this base if there are Ethereals or Sectoids attacking.<br />
<br />
If you built a General Stores near the Access Lift, the double doors are a great place for ambushing aliens as they leave the Access Lift. Each chamber will hold two soldiers. Eight soldiers stepping out and firing one or two bursts of laser or plasma shots will almost guarantee that no alien penetrates further into your base. Also, so long as no soldiers or tanks are visible during the aliens' turn, they will not make psi attacks (visible to any alien, not just the psionic alien). The [[Destroying Terrain#Terrain structures|doors]] have a damage rating of 75, which means they will withstand an alien grenade detonated right beside them. This tactic has one downside against Sectoids: Cyberdisks will explode when killed at the chokepoint and destroy a large proportion of the loot.<br />
<br />
Alien Weaponry that has been researched can be used for Base Defense even if it's ammunition has NOT been researched. In other Missions you simply cannot load the ammo in your transport, but when defending a base this is not necessary. The clips will be labeled as alien artifacts, but can be used as if research was finished (except that it cannot be thrown).<br />
<br />
''[A somewhat unorthodox strategy, forced by necessity, paid off for Zombie: "I armed my best soldiers with the stun rods, hid them in the General Stores next to the Access Lift, and went to work. Every round a Snakeman would appear from the Access Lift, and every round one of my soldiers would stun the alien while another veteran grabbed the body and hauled the poor alien upstairs for observation. I was laughing so hard I almost peed my pants!" - as copied from strategycore. Mental picture of a Snakeman with a pillowcase over his head, zipcuffed arms behind his back, old army sock stuffed in the mouth, being heaved into a darkened storeroom on top of his buddies. "We get $20K for each, alive or dead, right?" --[[User:JellyfishGreen|JellyfishGreen]] 08:34, 14 Oct 2005 (PDT) ]''<br />
<br />
== To Surrender or Not To Surrender ==<br />
<br />
There are only two costs incurred when you lose a base:<br />
# You lose the base and everything in it;<br />
# You lose points for the soldiers and tanks that died defending the base. <br />
<br />
The loss of the base is presumably erased from the annals of history. It's all kept very hush-hush from the public. The non-combat staff and all ships that were at the base are disbanded and are not lost in the battle. X-Com ships vanish without a trace, probably stolen by wretched engineers. The deaths of the soldiers on the other hand are a lot harder to explain, and friends and families are bound to make inquiries. <br />
<br />
Therefore, if you find yourself in a situation where you are defending a base against an enemy that you have no hope of winning against, should you surrender without a fight, or fight it out? You will need to base this on who you are fighting with and what you have to fight them with. <br />
<br />
For example, a fresh batch of recruits in jumpsuits armed with regulation standard pistols and rifles against an elite squad of [[Ethereal]]s and [[Sectopod]]s. This can be classed as a hopeless battle should you not be able to utilise the weapons used by the attackers. In a situation like this, you should cut your losses and surrender without a fight. <br />
This will incur a 0 point penalty along with the loss of the base. <br />
<br />
On the other hand, should it be against [[Floater]]s, you could push on and try your luck. <br />
<br />
Alternately, you could also try to kill as many raiders as you can before surrendering. <br />
As long as you did not lose any soldiers in the process, you will get a positive score for losing the base. If this is an option, go for it. If not, don't.<br />
<br />
It is understandable that some commanders may be too proud to go down without a fight. There is nothing wrong with that, but do try to consider the consequences of any actions before taking them. <br />
<br />
'''Note:''' All of the above relates to raids on bases when you have more than one base. If you are put into a situation where you cannot save your very last base, then you should consider restarting the game.<br />
<br />
<br />
''If you have have advance warning about a base raid that you're going to surrender-- i.e., a hyperwave decoder, or you can see that battleship making a beeline for your base on a normal radar-- take the time to transfer as much as you can out of that base to other bases before the raid hits. <br />
If you've got free hangars in other bases, transfer the craft, save any elerium there, and transfer out all the personnel you can. <br />
An obvious thing, but can be quickly forgotten in the shadow of a battleship. --[[User:Papa Legba|Papa Legba]] 17:36, 22 Nov 2005 (PST)''<br />
:You should always transfer pretty much EVERYTHING out of a base even if you expect to win easily. In base defense missions you WILL hit the 80 item cap. You need to thin out your extra gear before the aliens get there by selling the stuff you don't really need and transferring the stuff you want to keep. You don't want to defend with just smoke grenades and electro-flares. My tiny radar bases always have a general stores for that purpose.--[[User:Brunpal|Brunpal]] 01:06, 11 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
''As stated earlier, the aliens can attack your base pretty early (especially on superhuman; For example, I got my first raid before laser pistol research was done!) - pistols and grenades may work well against sectoids, but are pretty worthless against cyberdiscs - still, even in this case, the answer should be clearly "not to surrender!" - In the early stage of the game, there are two ways of winning against cyberdiscs: first: get a soldier to stand near it and provoke a reaction shot by a different alien and hope it hits the disc, leads to its death and doesnt let it explode. Or just stun it - 2-3 soldiers with stun rods do a great job there, especially in a base with its plenty of cover.. '' [[User: Player11]] 23:47, 23 oct 2006<br />
<br />
==Alien Deployment==<br />
<table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left">Rank</th><br />
<th>Beg./Exp.</th><br />
<th>Vet./Gen.</th><br />
<th>Super.</th></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Soldiers</td><td>4-8</td><td>6-10</td><td>8-12</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Navigators*</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>2</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Medics* ** ***</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>2</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Engineers*</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>2</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Leaders***</td><td>1</td><td>2</td><td>3</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Commanders***</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>1</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Terrorists</td><td>0-2</td><td>2-4</td><td>4-6</td></tr><br />
<tr><th>Totals</th><td>9-15</td><td>14-20</td><td>22-28</td></tr><br />
</table><br /><br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki>Ethereals use Ethereal Leaders in place of Navigators, Medics, and Engineers.<br><br />
<nowiki>**</nowiki>Snakemen use Snakeman Soldiers in place of Medics.<br><br />
<nowiki>***</nowiki>Mutons use Muton Soldiers in place of Medics, Leaders and Commanders.<br />
<br />
== Destruction Of Base Facilities ==<br />
<br />
Excessive damage to the structure of your base can result in some [[Base Facilities (EU)|modules]] being completely destroyed, ''even if'' you win the overall battle.<br />
<br />
Certain modules have "special" tiles in them, and if ''all'' of these are visibly damaged (or completely obliterated), then that module will be considered lost. Furthermore, if any other modules used the destroyed areas for passage to the access lift, they'll be forfeit as well!<br />
<br />
Fortunately, these tiles only exist on the upper floors of your base, and the aliens make no attempt to target them. While explosions on the lower floors may damage the upper flooring, they leave the ''furnishings'' unscathed - ''even if'' the floor gives way completely, they'll still hang safely in midair. Presumably the builders had the foresight to attach them to the ceiling with wires.<br />
<br />
For example, the [[Fusion Ball Defences]] contain eight gun arrays made up of four tiles each. All 32 of these must be destroyed in order to take out the module.<br />
<br />
<table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th>Module</th><th>Targets</th><th>Module</th><th>Targets</th></tr><br />
<tr><td>[[Grav Shield]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-gravshield.gif]]</td><td>[[Small Radar System]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-smallradar.gif]]</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>[[Hyper-wave Decoder]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-hyperwave.gif]]</td><td>[[Workshop]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-workshop.gif]]</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>[[Laboratory]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-laboratory.gif]]</td><td>[[Missile Defences]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-missile.gif]]</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>[[Large Radar System]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-largeradar.gif]]</td><td>[[Laser Defences]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-laser.gif]]</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>[[Mind Shield]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-mindshield.gif]]</td><td>[[Plasma Defences]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-plasma.gif]]</td></tr><br />
<tr><td>[[Psionic Laboratory]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-psilab.gif]]</td><td>[[Fusion Ball Defences]]</td><td>[[Image:targets-fusion.gif]]</td></tr><br />
</table><br /><br />
<br />
The remaining modules - the [[Access Lift]], [[Alien Containment]], [[General Stores]], [[Hangar]] and [[Living Quarters]] - are completely indestructible, and can take any amount of damage without danger of collapse.<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
Base defenses can be DEADLY.<br />
<br />
But not for the reason you think.<br />
<br />
*When you have more than 80 items present at a base, the game will only make available the first 80 items on the stores list (See '80-item Limit' in [[Known Bugs]].) . This will result in conventional weapons/stun rods/electroflares/etc. being available instead of lasers/plasmas. To prevent this there are 3 possible solutions before that Battleship strikes the base: <br />
1) Transfer the unwanted items to another base.<br><br />
2) Load your transports (if there's any) with the unwanted items and launch them before the UFO lands. This saves the work of having to transfer those items back but if the base gets destroyed the transport will disappear and the waypoint to which it was headed will remain visible for the rest of the game. <br><br />
3) [[Spring_Cleaning_Tips|Sell unnecessary stuff]]. ''"Imminent Alien Invasion Yard Sale! Everything Must Go!"''<br />
<br />
* If you had 40 heavy plasmas in your base and forgot to get rid of those 40 smoke grenades, all your troopers would be lacking the clips for the heavy plasma. Good luck defending a base with nothing but 40 smoke grenades. ''[Darksun: Lucky for my stupid self, I had a couple of laser tanks to convince the aliens to lend me some ammo.]''<br />
<br />
* A relatively easy way to counter this problem is to keep your stores of "conventional" weapons low and keep 20 or more [[Laser Rifle]]s in base inventories. Laser Rifles are high on the inventory list and are distributed before most other items. As they do not require ammo, any laser is immediately combat-ready.<br />
<br />
*Another ANNOYING bug I find is the disappearing bodies and booty from aliens. This is related to the 80 item bug problem.<br />
<br />
*Also much feared is the dreaded "walled off section" or [[Known_Bugs#Base_Disjoint_Bug|Base Disjoint Bug]]. Sections of your base along the extreme south and east edges will often be separated from each other by dirt walls. Heavy plasma and blaster launchers are needed in this scenario to excavate the dirt. Possible that heavy explosives might work too, I'm not sure. Soldiers spawning in Stores or Living Quarters here may be trapped for the duration.<br />
<br />
*A much nicer bug is that [[Heavy Weapons Platforms|HWP]]'s automatically get a free load of ammo (which is added to your stores if unused). Note you still need at least one soldier as aliens landing at an unguarded base - or a base defended only by HWP's - take it without a fight.<br />
<br />
*If you have a combination of many soldiers and few spawn points, soldiers will start taking alien spawn points. Which usually means less aliens (unless you built a lot of hangars).<br />
<br />
*The last point also applies to aliens: if the aliens don't have enough spawn points they will start using the X-COM ones, which can turn base defense into a nightmare!<br />
<br />
Masochists: at superhuman, you get the same quantity of aliens as in the battleship, e.g. +25 aliens, +8 terror units. To get the full compliment to attack your base, you need AT MINIMUM 2 hangars. (Unless you want aliens to spawn in general stores downstairs corridor). Four hangars guarantee maximum alien load if you use 15 soldiers and conservative loadouts. ''I usually defend with 10 guys, 2 tanks VS four hangars. LasR ''<br />
<br />
* On a related note, Xcom can only have a maximum of 40 soldiers on base defence. HWPs are prioritized and will be spawned before any soldiers. Each HWP counts as 4 soldiers. Therefore a base with 9 HWPs will only spawn 4 soldiers. Having 10 HWPs in base might cause your game to crash. (it will attempt to create the Equip Soldier screen but will face problems).<br />
<br />
*Elerium collection from a base defence mission can only happen if elerium pods are generated in the battlescape. If you have 10 units in storage, the game will generate 10 pods in the base, given sufficient space in the object table. But because the way the game automatically converts 1 pod into 50 units at the end of the mission, you're basically getting 5000% more elerium from your own pods (those that don't get destroyed, anyway). None of them come from the aliens! This will only happen in earlier versions of the game.<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
<br />
*[[X-Com Base Terrain]]<br />
*[[Base Layout Strategy]]<br />
*[[Alien Retaliation]]<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Mission Types Navbar}}<br />
[[Category:Missions]]<br />
[[Category: Tactics]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Known_Bugs&diff=33622Talk:Known Bugs2011-05-13T02:22:16Z<p>Jasonred: /* Bugs vs Exploits */</p>
<hr />
<div>= Classification etc =<br />
<br />
== Bugs vs Exploits ==<br />
<br />
Could someone comment please on the distinction between a bug and an exploit, and where to put each one? I would guess that a bug is something that undesirable and an exploit "might be" desirable, if you want to cheat. But what about exploits that happen by accident, or bugs that need to be forced to happen? <br />
<br />
I was going to add the Research Rollover bug to the Exploits sections, but they seem to all be under construction. What's the agreed approach?<br />
<br />
[[User:Spike|Spike]] 04:16, 15 March 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
* i think that an exploit is somthing you can trigger and gain an advantage from. a bug may or may not have a known trigger, and does not give an advantage if it does.<br />
: All exploits are bugs, either in implementation or design. When using a bug to gain advantages that bug is used as an exploit (you are exploiting the bug). [[User:FrederikHertzum|FrederikHertzum]] 13:39, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: IMHO, Laser Pistols Gifts to train reactions is an exploit, but it does not involve any bugs. It merely exploits the fact that laser pistols will not penetrate the front armor of Flying Suits. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 16:31, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: I guess the point is to differentiate if it's a bug that's being exploited to your advantage, or it it's something confined within the game mechanics that you are exploiting to your advantage (even if using it as intended). -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:31, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::: Another definition: An exploit is <br />
::::: a) a move allowed by game interface <br />
::::: b) that sidesteps another part of the game mechanics<br />
::::: c) and creates inadequate advantage for the moving player in the process.<br />
::::: An exploit is not a bug, but it can be connected with a bug, if the latter allows a move mentioned in a). Most obvious exploits render whole parts of game mechanics obsolete (see b) above), because they are always more advantageous. In games that feature equal terms for AI and the player, an exploit can be discerned simply by the fact that AI does not use it (sadly this is not true in X-COM). Clear exploit in X-COM: Transfer soldiers = no monthly payment. Suspect exploits: grenade layout. Most probably not an exploit: Sniping (although the inequality with AI is suspect). Clearly not an exploit: dropping weapons to prevent Psi mass murder (this one is made exploitable by the AI unable to pick up weapons, but is not an exploit per se).--[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 05:30, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
The dropping weapons sort of turns into an exploit if you do the "everyone suspect of being a psi weakling drops their weapons at the end of the turn. They all pick up their weapons again if unpsied in the next turn." The grenade layout or grenade hot potato is probably not what the game designers had in mind, but I shudder at the thought of someone who only played X-com then joined the army pulling the pin out of his grenade and then dropping it into his haversack or slinging it on his belt. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 07:43, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Yeah, I think we agreed somewhere that shoving live grenades in your pockets and not having them go off is madness. The relay however is not sensible but certainly possible if only a very short one (if with a live grenade), or to toss a grenade forward and prime it at the second to last person. Or more reasonably, something like a stick of dynamite with an extra long fuse. Even that's very dangerous. <br />
<br />
: By the way, what does everyone here think of using the mind probe to check if it's safe to attack an alien while standing in full view of it, or if you're right up next to it? I've been using it a lot lately (in lieu of the psi amp), so you could say I've been exploiting the mind probe to my advantage to help me with my decision making. But is that counted as a cheat since I'm picking my moments to attack up close when the enemy cannot return fire? -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:30, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: When identifying a mechanic as an "unfair exploit" (as opposed to just a "tactic"), perhaps a simpler checklist is this (though Kyrub's is spot-on):<br />
<br />
:: a) Is this something the developers should've expected players to do?<br />
:: b) Is this something the developers could've easily prevented?<br />
<br />
:: If the answer to both is "yes", then it seems fair game to me. For eg, sniping at aliens: The game KNOWS whether the soldier can see the target (you get a flashing indicator if so), and so it would've been trivial to prevent it. Is it something the regular gamer will try? Certainly; therefore it can be considered expected behaviour. Ditto for using the Mind Probe to make attacks without fear of reaction fire; those things aren't cheap, they sell for a bunch, so it stands to reason that they'd have tactical value!<br />
<br />
:: Things like the transfer bug are clear exploits. The devs would've implemented that system so that, if you order personal near the end of the month, you don't end up paying for them twice before they ever arrive - but in the process, they forgot that "purchase" transfers are treated in the same way as "between-base" transfers. To fix one scenario without breaking the other, they'd've needed to code in some extra stuff so the game could tell the difference - they probably just figured the regular gamer would never notice, assuming they ever realised the problem existed.<br />
<br />
:: The "dropping weapons" thing is a little trickier to work out - yes, the devs should've seen it coming, but would it've been easy to fix? Aliens could've been twigged to either ignore un-armed soldiers... but those soldiers could re-equip next turn. Aliens could also've been twigged to attack randomly... but that would make their psi powers far LESS effective! I suppose the fix, if any, would've been unarmed melee attacks, but the implementation they went with seems to be the next best thing IMO.<br />
<br />
:: In regards to the "grenades in inventory" thing, it's probably common knowledge by now, but they DO go off in the alpha of the game. Presumably someone made a conscious decision to change that, though it could still just be an accidental bug. - <span style="font-size:xx-small">&nbsp;[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke|Contribs]])</span> 09:02, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Sniping at aliens is a very bizarre case, since almost all players will fall prey to the aliens sniping at you long before they snipe the aliens. The behaviour of the aliens to step within sight radius, take one step back, then fire without fear of retaliation *looks* and *feels* like clear exploitation of the rules, but the computer can't be a cheater, can it? So we humans carry that one step further. Mind you, I think X-com would be in trouble if the aliens could snipe you from across the map once they know your positions... especially since the aliens have cheating "if I spot 1 human, I spot ALL of them" abilities. Especially on maps where the aliens get Blaster Bombs...<br />
<br />
An interesting note about sniping and LOS: When I first played Xcom, my first mission was in the jungle. Because of all those plants, when my first soldiers spotted an alien, after he shot at him, I tried to make my 2nd soldier open fire and was informed "NO Line of Fire". I could only get my 2nd soldier to fire by positioning him in such a way that I got the flashing number. Henceforth, I assumed that you could ONLY fire at the aliens when the flashing number was there. LOL. LOF. LOS.<br />
<br />
Transfer bug wise, I thought that the devs merely programmed the game to count how many staff were currently in the base, then deduct that from Xcom coffers? As far as ordering personnel near month end goes, you end up paying salary for them if you order them more than 48 hours from month end, right? "realistically", they should make staff draw salaries based on when they were hired, but this would be too much effort.<br />
<br />
"dropping weapons" would have been easy enough to fix... just teach alien AI how to pick up weapons. Like they did in Apocalypse.<br />
<br />
As far as grenade relays go, if you ever join the army, and you toss a live grenade at your squadmate, you're gonna be court martialled! lol. Xcom grenades are weird cause they presumably come with a computer console where you program them or something that takes a lot of TU, if I already have a grenade in my hand I don't think it takes long to prime it compared to throwing it...<br />
<br />
Pretty clear exploit/bug is tossing grenades through the ceiling? That breaks all laws of realism/logic/whatever, and I'm sure the devs didn't plan for THAT to happen! [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:18, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Turns out the "spot one, spot all" thing was wrong all these years. However, units can be "spotted" by sniping an alien, hitting it, but failing to outright kill it; this may have contributed to the misconception.<br />
<br />
: The game considers the base to have the correct amount of personal as soon as you initiate a transfer - if a base has room for ten people, you can't send two groups of ten, as soon as the first is in transit the game will correctly recognise that the destination is now filled up and won't allow you to send any more. Likewise, if you hire soldiers, they'll count towards the allowance of more promotions in your ranks before they ever arrive at a base. That is to say, the payment system deals with personal counts in a different way to every other system in the game, making it look like it's intentional (if badly exploitable) behaviour. In terms of transit times, those seem to vary, I know a purchase of scientists takes 72 hours to arrive.<br />
<br />
: Er, yes, getting aliens to pick up weapons would've indeed fixed the dropping thing. Shoulda thought of that...<br />
<br />
: The grenade thing is indeed unrealistic however you look at it. Certainly throwing the things through ceilings is a bug, and its use is a large exploit. - <span style="font-size:xx-small">&nbsp;[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke|Contribs]])</span> 20:02, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Then how do the aliens "spot" the psi weakling to target him for psi attacks? Doesn't the game ALWAYS start blasting the juiciest target, regardless of LOS? Or is it just coincidence? [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 22:22, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Bugs vs Limits ==<br />
<br />
''(Discussion continued from [[Talk:Known Bugs#Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested|Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested]])''<br />
<br />
The "Soldier Recruiting Limit" is <b>not</b> a bug, it is a limitation of the game. Therefore, this should be removed from the page. If we want it somewhere else (like a new page such as [[Game Limitations]]), that would be appropriate. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 01:42, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::Not sure that's necessarily the best idea, Zombie, since many of the entries on the Known Bugs article(as well as some entries on the Exploits pages) are limitations of the game engine. On just a brief glance through, the following caught my eye as engine limitations: Manufacturing limit, Storage limit, Purchase limit, 80-item limit, Proximity Grenade limit, Large units not waking up from stun, Interception last shot bug, Alien UFL radar blitz-through bug(Passing through the detection range of a radar before the detection check comes up), Free manufacturing, free wages, UFO Redux, point-scoring with Ctrl-C, permanent MC of chryssalids, Zombie-MC resurrection of agents, alien inventory exploits, anything involved with bad collision detection, extinguishing fire with a Smoke Grenade, and even your personal favorite, denying the aliens access to their own spawn points. So in conclusion, maybe it should just be left as it is; conversely, all of these entries could be kept where they are and also on a Game Limitations page, or we could leave the headers there and link them over to the appropriate topics on Game Limitations. What do you think? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:21, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I agree with AQ (great list of examples by the way - and the Smoke/Fire limit would be another). Many, if not most, of the bugs are "Limitations" but they are logically inconsistent and not what a player would expect to happen: they are imposed by (at best) memory limitations or (at worst) design/programming oversights. I think the easiest thing to do would be to change the title of the page to Known Bugs and Limitations, or put an explanatory note at the beginning of the section to explain that "Bugs" is taken to included "Limitations". [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:16, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
By the strictest sense of meaning, a "bug" is a mistake or error on the programmers part. Limitations imposed <i>by design</i> or memory are not the same creature as the people involved were consciously aware of the decision. I suppose that to the normal player, any type of behavior which is unexpected/unwanted is automatically dumped in the bug category because to them there is no difference. To those of us who study the game files however, the two are unequivalent. Programming oversights, yes, those are bugs.<br />
<br />
Some of those limitations AQ mentions are (to me at least) bugs: free manufacturing, free wages, permanent MC of Cryssies (or actually any alien for that matter), Zombie resurrections and collision detection. Large aliens not waking up from stun is again, a bug. The programmers obviously had some issues when dealing with large units in general and never quite got it right. They made some progress in TFTD by trying to fix mind controlling each section of a large unit, but royally screwed it up by selecting the next 3 entries in UNITPOS.DAT no matter what they pointed to.<br />
<br />
Perhaps it's just my background in logic which makes me want to push for a separate category for limitations. Then again, as long as everything is listed somewhere I'm happy. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 22:06, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Actually, taking a look through the page as a whole there are various other Limits described, and the distinction between Bugs and Limits is made quite rigorously throughout - not just in the Soldier Limits and Bugs section, where the Soldier Recruiting Limit is referred to as a Limit whereas other bugs (such as paying salaries for soldiers you can't recruit) are referred to as Bugs. So we maybe just need to rename the pages "Bugs and Limits" and add an explanatory note on the distinction. From a user point of view, rather than a programmer point of view, a bug is an unexpected (inconsistent or illogical) behaviour, so for that reason I think it makes sense to keep them on the same page but try to ensure they are all correctly classified as Bug or Limit.<br />
<br />
: By the way, it could be hard to absolutely distinguish Bugs from Limits as I suspect there are going to be some grey areas where you would have to second-guess the intentions and decisions of the coders to know for sure if something was a designed-in Limit, or just an oversight (Bug). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 06:50, 10 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::If we distinguish in this manner, I suggest the definition of "Limit" should be, "Something imposed by the game files or engine as a limitation, most likely in context to the capabilites of the then-current personal computer." More succinctly, anything that was done to allow the game to run acceptably on what was then a PC. This would include both the Soldier and 80-Item limits, the spawn limit(40 units per side), Smoke/Fire limit, and some of the others listed. (The Purchase limit was probably more of a convienence for the programmers than anything, but it is clearly an intended feature.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:11, 10 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I would add to this that sometimes a Limit may be imposed as a game design / gameplay decision, rather than in order to conserve a constrained resource in the platform (=PC). Also, I would suggest that ''intended'' Limits are Limits, but ''unintended'' consequences of Limits are Bugs. Obviously, making this distinction involves some guesswork. But I would guess that while the limit on total smoke/fire hexes was an intended Limit (to conserve PC resources), the ability to put out fires with smoke grenades and disperse smoke with IC rounds is probably an unintended consequence of the Limit, and so should probably be considered a Bug. Similarly, Base Defence spawn points are probably an intended limit, but the ability to flood spawn points is an unintended consequence of this, and thus a Bug (and an Exploit). (Spawn points should have been shared out 50/50, not humans-first). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:07, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::The limit on Soldier and Interception craft were probably more of a limit imposed because they capped the file and figured that X-COM wouldn't ever need more than 40 interception craft or 250 soldiers. (And I've never needed that many, case in point.)<br />
<br />
::As for spawns, its actually difficult to take advantage of it in any reasonably established base. X-COM can spawn up to 40 soldiers in a base defense mission(tanks count as 4 soldiers), as a limit of LOC.DAT. Aliens have the same limit. So in order to take advantage of the bug, the base needs 40 or less spawns total. The Access Lift has 8 spawn points, General Stores(weapon-handling) has 11, Living Quarters has 8 more. This is 27 Spawns just getting soldiers in a base and armed. (Although the General Stores can be cut out if you perform the bug properly). Large Radar and HWD have 6 spawns(Small Radar has 2), and Hangar has 15. So overall, the "Spawn prevention" can be hard to take advantage of with all but the smallest bases. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 14:48, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
Just to clarify, X-COM interception craft are not capped at 40 ships. LOC.DAT has a cap of 50 "things" on the geoscape screen at a time. This is shared between X-COM bases, X-COM ships, alien bases, seen or unseen UFO's, terror sites, crash sites, landing sites and waypoints. In a perfect game world with little alien activity and normally constructed bases, the max number of X-COM craft possible is 44: 5 bases with 8 hangars each plus one base with 4 hangars (or any combination thereof). If you illegally modify your base layout with an editor to get rid of the access lift, the max can be increased to 45 ships (9 hangars in 5 bases). Once clogged, all alien activity will cease.<br />
<br />
The base defense limit of 40 units exists because of UNITPOS.DAT which has a cap of 80 entries total (tanks occupy 4 entries in this file). Auto-win missions in a base defense mission by clogging all the spawn points with X-COM units isn't as tough as it sounds, especially if your base is small or doesn't contain hangars. The main thing is getting your full quota of 40 units to spawn (meaning you should try not to have any tanks as they count as 4 units but only occupy one spawn point). This limits the base size to something like 5-6 modules depending on what you build. Still, even having more than 6 modules isn't bad as it forces aliens to spawn intermingled between your troops. With 40 armed guys staring in every direction, you can get positions of all the aliens in the first round and possibly even kill them all (depends on weapons and alien race of course). --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I would say that Limits are the CAUSE of bugs... also, I feel that fire/smoke limit can be called a bug, because a player normally has no way to tell this, other than observation. Whereas the game DIRECTLY and CLEARLY informs you whenever you hit the 80 item or 250 soldier limits, which is more fair. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:22, 23 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
= Specific Bug Discussions =<br />
<br />
== Misc Technical Bug ? ==<br />
<br />
''(The context of this discussion seems to have been lost)''<br />
<br />
This is a technical bug that doesn't happen to everyone and one this article wasn't really meant to chronical - but we won't turn away helping a fellow player if it can't be helped. It's just that there are so many random crash points in this game that it would take far too long to find them all or come up with solutions for them. <br />
<br />
Certainly, the transfer crash can happen to some players, but it's not one that can be reproduced easily. It's just like the random crash that some players get when they research a floater medic. It crashes the game for some of us, but others don't seem to notice it at all. <br />
<br />
It really depends on your hardware and OS setup, whether or not your copy of the game is damaged or your savegame is damaged, etc. <br />
<br />
Does it happen in all games or just this one savegame? <br />
<br />
- [[User:NKF|NKF]] <br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
== "Invisible Muton" bug ==<br />
<br />
Upon shooting repeatedly a Muton, it sometimes plays its "death" animation without sound (as if falling unconscious) and it is no longer displayed in the screen, while remaining visible to my soldiers (I can center the screen and the cursor appears yellow over them). Under this state, they cannot be targeted by Stun Rods. They may play their death animation anytime they get shot, until they truly die, when they emit their characteristic sound and leave a corpse (along with any items carried).<br />
<br />
I'm quite fond of laser weapons, maybe this happens more often with those.<br />
<br />
Also, though I remember experiencing this quite often fighting Mutons, it may happen to any other high health race.--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 02:59, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
Never seen that one myself. Another "unpatched game" thing maybe?<br />
<br />
There's a (very rare) bug that allows your soldiers to live if they become stunned by an explosion that happens to kill them. Sometimes the game will register their death, and THEN register that they've been stunned. In every case I've seen this happen, however, the unit will have such a low amount of health that a single fatal wound will render it dead (again) on the next turn. I have a vague memory that other players may have been able to get a medkit to the scene on time...<br />
<br />
I dunno if that's related to your issue at all (I doubt it, but... meh). I'd advise using a Mind Probe on the alien the next time it happens so you can check the aliens stun/health levels.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure I've seen this with Mutons. Possibly Chrysallids as well, another high health, high armor creature. They were still readily killed by shooting the place they are. Good thought on the MP, BB<br />
<br />
---[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 08:51, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I've been known to have a dying muton(in fire) to spin around and then switch to the female civilian death animation. With the scream and everything. Even got a civilian death registered at the end of the mission. And this didn't just happen once, but on another separate occasion.<br />
<br />
Hmm. shape-shifting reptilians in the game! LOL! Happens alot [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Unusually enough, I once had a sectopod die and then drop a tank corpse. I was using the Lightning at the time for my troop carrier, so you can imagine my surprise. <br />
<br />
Then there was one occasion where a floater dropped a snakeman corpse. Let's not even get into the sort of things the aliens like to stuff themselves with. <br />
<br />
Your invisible alien bug is quite common, although there appears to be many causes for it. I think one involves a full object table when it comes to invisible aliens in bases. But it can also happen in ordinary missions as well. I'm guessing the game may have tried to do something in the wrong order, and sprite information for the unit may have been lost or corrupted along the way. <br />
<br />
Having had an experience where all the chryssalids become invisible in one base defence mission was quite a shocker. I fixed this by saving the game, quitting and then restarting the game. If you ever get an invisible alien again, try this and see if it helps. If it doesn't, well, just keep a careful watch on your map and any alerts that pop up as you play. <br />
<br />
There's a similar but less severe bug where a dead alien will still leave its centre-on-unit alert button, but this goes away shortly after you move or turn. <br />
<br />
- [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
That last bug happens when exploding Cyberdiscs kill nearby Sectoids, doesn't it?--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 23:56, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
This is a pretty easy one. I guess this bug occured on UFO recovery on a battleship, an alien base assault or a base defense mission? As soon as there are too many items on the map, the game saves some item slots for the equipment to be displayed (since it is more valuable and more important to research). This would also make stun weapons lethal if the stunned aliens would vanish. therefore the game has a failsafe if an alien is stunned (or badly wounded and becoming uncontious). The downed alien's stun level is set exactly on its left health points therefore resurrecting it instantly. This cycle is broken when the alien is finally killed. This means if you want to stun an alien in such a situation you have to destroy some items first.<br />
<br />
- by tequilachef (April 4th 2007)<br />
<br />
== Vanishing snakemen ==<br />
<br />
I've known snakemen to become invisible when standing on a hay bale. On the first occassion I had a poor tank getting shot while spending numerous turns looking for it. On the second occasion I had an alien under Psi-control, left it on the hay bale, and couldn't find it next turn. - Egor<br />
<br />
---<br />
<br />
This is not limited to snakemen. Hay bale block visibility quite much when a unit is standing on it. Two possible solutions:<br />
- Destroy the hay before entering<br />
- Shoot at the hay. If it is destroyed any unit on it will become visible (as long as no other bales are blocking the line of sight). You might also hit the enemy directly.<br />
<br />
I Dnt know if the aliens are affected by this diminished sight, too. My guess would be no.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)<br />
<br />
== Blaster Bomb Bug ==<br />
<br />
I'm currently playing through X-com UFO Defense, I have the collectors edition version. I'm in the process of trying to catch a live alien commander and the blaster bomb bug is making this very difficult. If i remember correctly a commander is always in the command center of the the alien bases. The problem is anytime i get close there is always a dude with a blaster launcher up there that tries to kill my troops. When they try to fire it down at me the bug kicks in and they blow up the whole command room and all the aliens in it because they can't figure out how to get the blaster bomb down the grav lift thing in there. This is making it very dificult to actually catch a live commander. Anyone have any ideas for tactics or anything to breach that room without the aliens trying to fire a blaster launcher up there? - eL Hector<br />
<br />
: I can suggest two possible solutions. The first is to wait outside the command room for the alien to move closer to you. If it comes out of the room or if you know it has moved down the lift, you then burst in and stand right next to it to stop it from firing the blaster. This is risky because there could very well be a heavy plasma toting alien in there. The other is to use a small launcher and launch it up at the ceiling near where you think the alien with the blaster is standing. -[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Disappearing Ammunition ==<br />
<br />
I have observed that problem with X-COM 1.2, modded with XCOMUTIL. My stun bombs and heavy rocket missiles, along with clips for the auto cannon went missing.<br />
[[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]<br />
<br />
------<br />
<br />
Just run a test using my 1.4 DOS version with XComUtil but my stun bombs didn't disappear: 30 + 1 back in the base they came from, same number after I went tactical and I dusted-off immediately. Are you running XComUtil with Runxcom.bat or did you simply run Xcusetup?<br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 22:12, 22 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Is it a case of hitting the 80-item limit?--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 12:28, 23 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
------<br />
With runxcomw.bat, as everytime. Apologies, I retested and it seems like I was mistakened, but I could have sworn that I lost them dang stunbombs. Had to manufacture some. I will test some more, using four heavy weapons and seeing whether their ammunition disappears at all. Thanks. [[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]<br />
<br />
==MC at end = MIA?==<br />
<br />
I am sure I have seen this again recently, where I won a mission with no casualties (I thought), but the last thing I killed was a Commander that had been chain MC'ing a psi-attack-magnet trooper, and that trooper was listed as MIA at the end (presumably because he was on the enemy side at the end of combat). Is this a bug, or is there another way to get MIA's on a completed mission that I might have missed?<br />
<br />
Since then I have been waiting for the leaders to panic at the end before killing them (or waiting for a rare resist), so I can safely exit, but am I being overcautious?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 13:45, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
If the trooper was mind controlled on the turn you killed the last alien it will be listed as MIA. No bug there :) <br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 18:16, 1 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
Huh, why would that happen - your soldier should recover the very next round, why would he go MIA?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 18:20, 1 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
Doesn't make sense to me as well but that's how the game works. <br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 15:05, 2 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
It seems that regaining control of units under enemy mind control works different for alien and human players. My guess: aliens under human MC are reverted to alien control AFTER THE ALIEN AND BEFORE THE HUMAN TURN while human units under alien control are reverted RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE HUMAN TURN. This explains three different phenomenons:<br />
<br />
- The discussed MIA "bug" (he unit would be returned in the next human turn, but since it never starts it is lost. The mission is still won since no unit with a "genuine alien" marking is left)<br />
<br />
- The fact that a mission is lost when the last human falls under MC while it is not won when this happens to the last standing alien (the aliens get their unit back before their turn starts and therefore have a unit left to pass the "anyone alive?" check, the humans would have no unit left to start a turn with. They WOULD have as soon as the turn starts, but no unit left before turn means bust)<br />
<br />
- The fact that aliens still can see all an MCed human saw at the end of the human turn that follows the MC while this is not vice versa (The MCed human can give information to the alien side before reverted while an MCed alien is reverted too early). The result is that aliens can control a human indefinitely without having any alien seeing him until the MC is disrupted for one turn.<br />
<br />
All confused? Then I did a good job! No seriously, this must be the explanation, I couldn't think of any other way.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)<br />
<br />
: You're absolutely correct on the first two points. It's a sequence issue - you never get round to recovering the unit before the new turn starts, so you end without any units whatsoever. Makes senses too since the aliens would continue to continue to mind control that same unit over and over indefinitely. <br />
<br />
: The third point however: The aliens don't need to know the location of the last MC'd unit. They know the location of all your troops whether they've seen them or not from the very start. They appear to give you a few turns of grace where they won't attack you outright (unless, from my observation, all your soldiers are incredibly weak). This is evident because all of the aliens will eventually make their way towards the nearest soldier even though their movement pattern may seem semi-random. Also, they know where you are because they can initiate psionic attacks without having seen any of your troops. They generally go after the weakest troops first. <br />
<br />
: Just to add a semi-related point, but from the alien's perspective. If an MC'd alien unit is in the exits when you abort the mission, this alien is not recovered and in fact simply vanishes. Any equipment it was carrying is recovered, unknown artefacts or otherwise. You could possibly think of this as their version of MIA. However, the aliens differ ever so slightly in that if it's the last alien standing and under temporary mind control by the player, the mission doesn't end straight away. But I guess this is only because the player has everything under control, whereas in the other scenario, the Ai is in control. <br />
<br />
: -[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Crash Site in the atlantic ocean ==<br />
<br />
That's right, my game generated a crash site on water. Here are the details:<br />
<br />
- Crash Site a bit southeast of the USA (which was infiltrated a few days before by sectoids, resulting base had already been taken out), but certainly not on land.<br />
<br />
- UFO: battleship, floater, alien harvest<br />
<br />
- Geoscape: 8 X-Com Bases, 1 (known) Alien base, 2 other crash sites, 1 other (known) flying UFO (though almost worldwide decoder coverage), 3 X-Com Crafts out, 1 waypoint<br />
<br />
- Date: January 2000<br />
<br />
- Most Interesting: The Craft that downed the ship was a recently finished Firestorm (first human-alien hybrid craft I had built, I know this is lame for that date. Limited myself on 25 Scientists to improve the challenge) equipped with twin plasma. I had it built and equipped in Antarctica and then transferred to Europe. This base had no Elerium, a fact that enabled me to use the infinite fuel exploit which was in effect when downing the UFO. My craft was only slightly damaged when doing so. The battleship was the first target assigned to the craft, it came directly from my base. <br />
<br />
- When shot down, the UFO was not targetted by any other craft.<br />
<br />
- I had not lost or sold a single craft to that point.<br />
<br />
- When sending a squad to the crash site the game didn't crash but generated a farm land ground combat terrain.<br />
<br />
- I was not able to reproduce the bug from the savegame dated 2 hours before downing the UFO<br />
<br />
Well guys, any intelligent guesses? I still have the savegames (before and after downing)! If you want to have a look, write here.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 5th 2007)<br />
----<br />
: Well I'm sure you know about crash sites that are near land can sometimes actually be on water, so I'm going to assume that this site is well far away from any land mass. Could it be a weird entry in GEODATA\WORLD.DAT that has a land mass out in the ocean? Also are you sure the game didn't crash? Sometimes when it does it will load the previous mission (and usually 90% are at farm terrain). Are you sure it generated a new map and not load the last one?<br />
:No real guesses but maybe some starting points to look at. I've probably stated some obvious situations you know about and have accounted for, but it never hurts to double check :D<br />
- [[User:Pi Masta|Pi Masta]] 14:23, 5 April 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Inconsistencies in MCing Cyberdiscs and Sectopods ==<br />
<br />
I experienced, that when MCing one quadrant of a large terror unit any action it does only affects this quadrant (especially use of time units). That means, when TUs are up for one part, MC another one and continue firing. This however does not work out when moving the unit while it is not under complete control. The TUs used up by the resulting reaction fire from the rest of the unit is also deducted from the TUs "your" part has left (making it impossible for the controlled parts to return fire). This however only happens under reaction fire, not if "your" part fires on it's own. I don't know if this comes up when uncontrolled parts shoot by themselves in the alien turn, since this is hard to find out.<br />
<br />
: That's because large units literally are made up of four separate units. They only share the same set of general stats (in unitref.dat). Unfortunately the 'under mind control flag' is unique to the four units, not the shared stats! So you in effect have multiple units under different control sharing the same stats. So if you move and it results in a reaction from the unit, it will spend the TUs you're using. <br />
: Successful mind control automatically fills up the unit's TUs, so each mind controlled sector gets to move or attack again until there are no more sectors to mind control. Useful way of turning reapers into long range scouts! <br />
: In TFTD, they attempted to fix this bug, but in fact made it much-much worse! The only way to mind control the unit properly is to control the upper left quadrant. Only! Any other quadrant will result in a partial (clockwise) control, and you may gain control of units other than that unit, or may even get into situations where you gain permanent 'partial control' of a large unit you haven't even sited. Wackiness all around! <br />
<br />
:- [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Facility Dismantle Bug ==<br />
<br />
Boba: I've never experienced this bug myself in all my games in the Collectors Edition. It may very well vary from computer to computer. <br />
<br />
-[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
:I, however, have experienced it. I lost an entire month's worth of playtime because I couldn't solve it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]]<br />
<br />
::Anyone, any ideas on why it might vary from PC to PC? -[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]<br />
<br />
:::I'd check other factors before blaming a given system. Assuming no mods are being used the most obvious is the order in which you initiated the construction of the modules. Then we've got which one was due to be completed first, and I'm sure there's a few other things to test out. Usually, a player won't cancel in-progress modules on a regular basis, so you wouldn't expect this bug to turn up often. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Easy way to reproduce: build 2 General Stores. Now delete the "second one" (see offset 16-39 in [[BASE.DAT]] for the order). Wait for the first one to complete. It'll crash immediately after the "end of construction" dialog. A fix is available [[User:Seb76#Bug_Fixes | here]]. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 15:52, 22 July 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Manufacturing Limit Bug ==<br />
<br />
Unfortunately, Mike, no you did not get it correct. It is the raw number of hours needed to complete the project, not the projected hours. I discussed this on the X-Com Forums a few months back at the following link: http://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=242027760&st=0&#entry164411<br />
<br />
I did tests at the time in regard to the accuracy of the data given there, but I've lost the results. I'll quickly redo the tests in the next hour or so. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:00, 8 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Tests complete. The breakpoints for every item were exactly where I predicted, regardless of number of engineers assigned. (I ran up a huge queue of items at my dedicated factory base on an old game, and then assigned whatever engineers would fit onto one project at a time, canceling projects as data was confirmed. This is only semi-random, but it serves our purposes.) I did run into a single issue, though. It appears that despite having 5 empty hangars at a (different!) base, the workshop there could not queue up more than 3 of any one craft at a time, thus making this bug impossible to replicate with the Firestorm or Lightning, as you must be producing more than three for the bug to occur. However, it still works with the Avenger. Later, I shall see about constructing a dedicated Hangar base with 7 hangars in order to attempt to replicate the bug. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:33, 8 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Sounds great, Arrow. Why not post a simple example that shows how the problem works. As in, "with 1 Eng and 2 Avengers you might think X, but no, it's Y". And please delete my example. And it's a fine pleasure to meet you! Cool - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]<br />
<br />
:::When you say the usual resources are used by the "lost" resources, that includes cash, right? It sounds like if you're willing to foot the extra bill [[Buying/Selling/Transferring#Manufacturable_Prices|money/component-wise]], this could be used to build Avengers slightly faster then normal.<br />
<br />
::: The usual time is 34000 hours. Double that and subtract 65535 and you're left with a paltry 2465 hours. Even a single workshop squad of 10 engineers will pull that off in a little over ten days. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Sadly, this exploit doesn't work, because the high bit is stored SOMEWHERE. I lack a hex reader and have no code reading skills to speak of, so I'm a bit limited here. If you set up a Workshop as you described, the game would take all the time for 2 Avengers, all the resources for the same, but in the end only produce 1 Avenger. Meanwhile, I'll run more tests on the resources thing. I could swear it consumes the resources, but I'll double check.<br />
<br />
:::::There is no need to store the high bits if the actual completion condition (assuming adequate money) is "number made is number ordered", which wouldn't reference the hours remaining at all. - [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 01:49, 9 Oct 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::::Tests done; I was unable to replicate the 'disappearing item' trick,(Which I didn't test for last night) even with Avengers! It appears I was wrong; this still counts as a bug, though, because the wraparound is a problem.<br />
<br />
::::Ironic that so much of this discussion centers around Avengers, because that's where I discovered this in the first place! [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:48, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I'm revisiting XCOM and was working on [[Manufacturing Profitability]]... Arrow, can you (or anyone else) say a little bit more on the Known Bugs page about this [[Known_Bugs#Manufacturing_Limit_Bug]]? It's not clear to me exactly what the bug does, except that it understates hours. Is that all?... does it still take the (non-buggy) amount of time, still use all the same resources, still make the same number, etc.? It sounds like it could be a drastic bug - or is it only a very superficial one, a display bug for the hours? It sounds like you're leaning toward this latter.<br />
<br />
Also on a semi-related note... I could swear I saw much more detailed info on the [[Known_Bugs#Facility_Maintenance_Costs]] issue... IIRC, the incorrect amount that's charged for maintenance, depends on exactly where a facility is in the base. IOW, different "rows" of the base cost different amounts. Could somebody provide a link there, and/or flesh the bug out better?<br />
<br />
Thanks! - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 11:22, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I've actually seen the bug work both ways, but I've only been able to actually replicate the more superficial version of the bug. So the bug report up is about a superficial bug that drastically understates production time. If you wish to make this clearer, you have my blessings. As well, that 'different charging based on location' is dealt with here: http://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Base_Facilities ; however, the table has been broken with the Wikiupgrade, and I lack sufficient knowledge of HTML table code to fix it. But it should be of use to you. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 11:26, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Cool, I fixed [[Talk:Base Facilities]] but also re-organized and expanded [[Base Facilities]] so that it includes that bug in detail, as per Talk... this is an important issue that should be up front. I see that there's a separate [[Maintenance costs]] page, but I can't see having something so important (the maintenance bug explanation) all on its own page (which makes for a rather short page) rather than together with all the rest of the base facility info. If others agree (or don't care), I'll move anything remaining on Maintenance Costs to the Base Facilities page, then delete Maintenance Costs and re-route links. And if somebody does care, then please move my new section to Maintenance Costs, and move all the links, etc. Oh also I put in more words on your Manufacturing Limit Bug - how does it look? - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 16:37, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Looks pretty good, although it'll wrap fully; if you ask for 120000 hours, it won't be displaying 'almost no' time. The way I discovered it was when building two Avengers; I ordered two, paid for two, waited for two...and got one. But as said, haven't managed to repeat it, so until I do, we'll leave it like that. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I just revised and put in your specific example, because it's certainly possible some of us die-hard players will order up more than 1 Avenger at a time - and it's guaranteed it'd be a pain if 1 of them disappeared, laugh. I wasn't sure how concrete you were on that example but now I hear you say, you are sure it happened at least once. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 18:33, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I have a question concerning the manufacturing "bug" which eats a craft in production due to wrap-over of the byte. Arrow (or whoever did the test), did you have a large quantity of craft already built at your bases? If so, I think this bug has more to deal with clogging up [[CRAFT.DAT]]. See, that file has a limit of 50 entries. Each craft takes up one record and each base you have built also consumes one spot. 8 bases allows 42 craft to be housed, while 6 bases allow 44. If you try to buy or manufacture craft once the file is full, nothing shows up in the game even if you have hangar space available. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 19:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Huh, I never knew that. I don't see it listed on the Bugs page... I'll stick it in there. I've never approached that number, but some folks might. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 19:07, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I was able to continue building other Avengers after that project, and they appeared correctly, so I do not believe that is the issue. In any event, I have a very bad case of 'archivism' and probably still have the save game and the CRAFT.DAT file around on my system; in fact, I think I was playing it a few days ago. I can see if I can find it and upload it; it created a 'hole' in the Avenger fleet numbers, where Avenger's x and x+2 were built, but x+1 was not. I'll look for it tonight and tomorrow and upload it to the wiki if I find it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:10, 8 October 2007 (PDT) EDIT: I found the file; I have 28 Avengers and 1 Skyranger in my employ. All Avenger numbers EXCEPT #2(Avenger-2) are accounted for, and I have not sacked or lost any Avengers. So this is where the hole and 'eaten' Avenger is. If anyone wants the CRAFT.DAT file from this game, I'd be happy to forward it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:20, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Sure, send it my way and I'll take a look at it. (Might as well send me the whole saved game as I may want to look at the other files too). I have tried to recreate this bug by manufacturing 1, 2 and 3 Avengers at a clip but all of them always show up. Don't know what else I could do to get this problem to crop up. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:32, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:File emailed. On the side, I've tried the same thing, and never been able to repeat the bug. It's been months since the first discovery, so I can't recall whether it was the first or the second Avenger that didn't appear. So maybe it was just a fluke. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:57, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Unconscious Enemy in Equipment Screen ==<br />
<br />
The following happened to me repeatedly over the last few days.<br />
<br />
In the last tactical Mission a live alien has been captured. When now beginning an UFO crash recovery mission this type of alien (same race and rank) appears in the equipment screen before the mission starts, meaning I can give it to any of my soldiers.<br />
If I do so I can store the alien in the skyranger for the duration of the mission and, if it gains consciousness, kill or stun it at the end of it. A pile of equipment without a corpse will be in the UFO, indicating that the stunned alien is not some kind of duplicate but instead has been taken from the aliens of this mission. This is supported by the fact that in those missions the maximum number of crew members has not been surpassed.<br />
If I do not do so the Alien will be placed in the crashed UFO. Whether it is unconscious or not I do not know, but the fact that it is completely disarmed when encountered in the battle suggests that it is.<br />
<br />
So far it seems the following is necessary for the bug to occur:<br />
# An alien has to be captured alive in the last tactical combat<br />
# It has to be of the same race and rank as one of the aliens in the new tactical combat<br />
<br />
So far this only worked...:<br />
# If the new tactical combat was an UFO crash recovery of a medium scout.<br />
# For floaters and mutons<br />
# For soldiers and navigators<br />
# If the alien in the last mission was stunned by normal weapon fire (although I do not think this is important) and not picked up (again, not likely to be important) or destroyed (which would mean it has to be actually captured)<br />
<br />
It seems NOT to depend on the following:<br />
# The type of the last mission (were, so far: Ground assault battleship, crash recovery large scout, base defense)<br />
# Which squad or vessel was involved capturing the alien<br />
# Where it is locked up<br />
# If it has been transferred since capture or not<br />
<br />
Would be interesting to know:<br />
# What happens if the alien in the inventory screen is the only survivor<br />
# If the alien in the invenory screen is one of the aliens randomly killed in the crash or not (it is likely to be one of the killed aliens, so far the equipment piles were always within the UFO)<br />
# If this is not limited on crashed medium scouts: Does this work with terror units? What about large ones?<br />
<br />
Maybe this is related to the proximity grenade bug (transfer of item properties to next tactical combat).<br />
<br />
Additionally, in one of those mission a part of the terrain was not generated correctly. It was in farm terrain (The house on the right square, or north east square, in [[Image:Terrain-cult.gif|this pic]]). The outer wall right to the right window of the southern wall (1st Floor) was missing. Directly outside of the hole was a floor tile. I could walk a soldier through the wall, but he fell right through the tile. Dunno if this has to do with the stunned alien bug.<br />
<br />
Version is collectors edition (the one from abandonia.com).<br />
<br />
----------------<br />
<br />
When a mission starts, the GeoScape engine generates the unit and object tables (in MissDat's [[OBPOSREF.DAT]], [[UNIPOS.DAT]], and [[UNIREF.DAT]]) before "shutting down". The Tactical engine then generates the maps, places the aliens on it, and blows up the UFO (if need be). Whether or not map generation and the subsequent events happen before you equip your soldiers I don't yet know.<br />
<br />
The test would be to check the aforementioned files to see if they contain an unconcious alien, and/or the body.<br />
<br />
Note that you can't see the bodies of large units on the ground (they count as four seperate objects covering four seperate tiles, so allowing the user to pick one up would essentially let you rip them apart).<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 06:35, 5 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----------------<br />
<br />
I honestly have no idea of how all those files work. But I still have a savegame in battlescape that is in one of those missions. So if anyone wants to have a look at those files...<br />
<br />
I forgot to mention: I reloaded a geoscape savegame shortly before the battle to recreate the bug, but it seems that reloading in geoscape before the buggy battle eliminates the bug. I guess his should narrow down the possible reasons...<br />
<br />
--------<br />
<br />
Next time it happens, backup the aforementioned files before you start another mission. I'm afraid a savegame wouldn't be of much help.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 00:54, 7 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Soldiers moved to outside of combat screen ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I've got a DOS version of UFO:EU, and I've encountered a bug in the tactical combat. Sometimes (rarely) a X-COM soldier changes its location on the map on player's turn start and is placed on outside of the map, one tile north from the (north) border of the field. AFAIR the unit is then selectable (you get the flashing highlight when cursor is above), but is stuck outside of the field. Has anybody encountered this bug? It seems to happen randomly, but more frequently during the terror missions and on early turns (so maybe it's caused by high number of player/alien/civilian units?). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 08:16, 3 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I've never encountered this bug in CE of UFO. Presuming AFAIR means "As Far As I Recall," what exactly was the soldier doing? Any equipment data, location, or stat info might help us pin it down. Were afflicted soldiers always carrying a specific equipment set or weapon? Where were they on the map before they got moved? Did they get bumped a few spaces, or teleported halfway across the Battlescape? Does it happen more often on a specific difficulty?(Your theory would suggest this would happen most commonly on Superhuman) Against a certain type of alien? Best of all, if you can recreate the situation in a game, save the game and then you could upload the save file to the forums or this wiki, and the rest of us could take a look for ourselves and the code divers could root around for the cause. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:03, 3 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: I've had this happen to me several times in UFO and TFTD. I don't know if it's specific to the Dos version or if it can happen in the CE as well. Sometimes the soldier ends up beyond the boundary of the map right at the start of the mission, at other times it happens after you load a game. This game is glitchy, which is the source for so many of its bugs, so your soldier's coordinates are probably getting corrupted to the point where they are -1 on either the X or Y axis of the maps's normal boundaries. For me it's commonly along the top edge of the map. I don't ever recall it happening mid-mission, only at the start or after a load. I cannot faithfully say whether it happened with or without XComutil, but that could be one of the possibly many causes for this. - [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
:: I don't play UFO often, so I rely on just several campaigns played. This happens rarely (I've encountered this bug twice in my last campaign with ~80 missions played), but if you haven't seen this happen then it probably doesn't show up in the CE edition. In my experience the soldier is moved always beyond the north/top map border. I think (but I'm not sure) that this affects the first soldier from the team more commonly than others (or maybe even exclusevily?). The equipment/armor carried is probably not relevant, since the units moved this way don't have any special stuff, and this bug shows up on different stages of the gameplay (ie. sometimes when you have ordinary rifles, sometimes when all your units got heavy plasmas and power suits). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 04:12, 4 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
'''MY ramblings have been moved to my discussion page''' [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]<br />
<br />
==Great Circle Route==<br />
<br />
Should we have the Great Circle Route bug noted on this page at all? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 20:33, 6 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: what is the great circle route? [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 07:56, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Pick two points on a globe, then hold a thread or string taut at those two points. That practically minimizes the length of the thread/string on the globe. You're now looking at a great circle arc (or route), the shortest distance between two points on a globe. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 11:15 March 2009 (CDT)<br />
<br />
: Just as a line is the shortest distance between 2 points on a flat plane, a great circle is the shortest distance between 2 points on the surface of a sphere. The bug, by the way, is that aircraft in the game ''don't'' follow this shortest, "great circle" route. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:38, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: What a grand sounding name, for something so simple, lol. ... I thought you were talking about when you tell your soldiers to go from point A to point B, and for some reason they figure that Zone A and Zone B are really far apart, despite actually being side by side. (I shot a hole through a wall, clicked to walk to the other side, and my idiot soldier walked one big circle... to use the door! And got ambushed and killed by an alien. ... dum dum DUMB DUMB.)<br />
:: Even the more modern games have problems with their pathfinding algorythms. Admittedly, games like Baldur's Gate had to do it in realtime.<br />
:: On a semi-related note, I remember this guy called E-man, he was chasing a guided laser beam that was going to kill his girl, around the world, but he couldn't outrun it since he couldn't break the speed of light, only equal it by changing into a Laser himself. So... inspiration! He turned into a very powerful laser, and made a shortcut THROUGH THE EARTH... the straight line beats the great circle route, lol.<br />
:: Thanks for the reply guys [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:56, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Bug not listed: Missing soldiers during base defense==<br />
<br />
I encountered an interesting bug concerning base defense missions:<br />
My base got attacked while about 30 soldiers and 10 HWPs were present. The usual equipment assignment screen was skipped and the mission started instantly with only the HWPs spawned at the map. Not even a single soldier bothered to show up... *sigh*<br />
Although this turned out to be in my favor (you should have seen the puzzled Ethereals trying to panic my tanks) I´d like to avoid this bug if possible. I was able to reproduce this bug several times and with different bases. <br />
Can anyone explain this bug and/or tell me how to avoid it?<br />
<br />
Game version: Collectors edition. - [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
Well, ideally, we need to know what your base's construction was to be sure of this, but I think the most likely circumstance is that the HWPs took up all the spawn points. HWPs have maximum priority for spawning(followed by Soldiers, and then Aliens), so if you have enough of them garrisoning a base, it's entirely possible that soldiers and aliens won't spawn. However, this doesn't explain why the soldiers didn't start stealing the Alien spawn points...in any event, you might want to take the save game file, zip it up, and get ready to email it. I'm sure [[User:Zombie|Zombie]] would be quite interested. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:28, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
It's not the spawn points, it's a [[UNITPOS.DAT]] limitation. A maximum of forty records (out of the total of eighty) are allocated for your units, and tanks (which take up four records each) get first pick. Having ten tanks means there's no room left for anything else.<br />
<br />
Ditch one HWP and you should see four units take it's place. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 16:42, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
I´ll try with a decreasing number of tanks and report the results. As I wrote above having only HWPs isn´t too bad dependent on what enemy is attacking. [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
This should be mentioned in the [[ExploitsE#Base Defence Mission Spawning Issues]] section. The Bugs/Exploits really need to be sorted and consolidated. - [[User:NinthRank|NinthRank]] 16:57, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
The limitation to 40 records seems to be the case; each tank I dumped got replaced by four soldiers. <br />
So this can be used to effectively manage unit combination. Thanks for the quick replies! [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
==Bug not listed: Ufo Gold (Windows Vers. abandonia.com) crashing when plasma defense is finished==<br />
<br />
I recordnized this bug a few times now. (with hacked AND unhacked game)<br />
If i place a plasma defense in 7 bases at the same Time and they are finished at the same Time, the game crashes sometimes.<br />
In hacked game, it seems to crash even more when Alien containment is finished, plasma defense, shield defense...etc.<br />
couldnt find it here...greetz<br />
<br />
: I somehow doubt the sourcing is the issue. [You may want to fund the next XCOM series game with a Take2 re-release of UFO :)] More generally: the game only reports the construction of a given type of facility <b>once</b>, no matter how many bases it completes at simultaneously. I've only tested this <i>in vivo</i> with three-of-a-kind at once across six bases, however. It does seem reasonable that some sort of counter of undisplayed completions would "overflow" (attaining crash). -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 10:05, Feb. 28 2008 CST<br />
<br />
::I've encountered this bug myself with General Stores, actually, not just Plasma Defense(which I never build). EDIT: Some quick tests seem to show that there's a chance the game will crash any time two base facilities are done at the same time, regardless of whether they're in the same base or not or if they're the same facility.(although it seems to happen MUCH more in the event they're in different bases.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:13, 28 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested ==<br />
<br />
Just to note that I have positively tested and replicated the bugs listed under the new(ish) section [[Known Bugs#Soldier Recruiting Bugs|Soldier Recruiting Bugs]]. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:08, 19 March 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Floater Medic Bug==<br />
<br />
I have not thus far encountered the Floater Medic Bug; in fact, Floater Medics are often used to fill up my Rogue Gallery with interrogations. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:50, 24 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Strange, it would always occur in my version. I don't remember where I got it from, but I<br />
know it was a download from the internet. Using the XCom Hack v2.5, I viewed the alien in<br />
the Alien Containment edit. I now have Type (race):____, and a Rank: Soldier for the <br />
Floater Medic. It might just be corruption, but I do not have the resources to look into<br />
it. [[User:Muton commander|Muton commander]] 19:24, 12 May 2008 (Pacific Time Zone)<br />
<br />
I've never encountered it either. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 07:47, 23 July 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Strength Overflow==<br />
<br />
During one of my games with TFTD I noticed a really annoying thing happen during battles.<br />
As my troops rose up the 'stat.' ladder they got better and better (as you'd expect), until they hit about 50 strentgh and completely lost the ability to throw anything.<br />
Even trying to throw something tiny like a grenade or flare into the adjacent tile resulted in the 'Out of Range' message being displayed.<br />
<br />
Anyone come across this before?<br />
This was in TFTD CE.<br />
[[User:Tifi|Tifi]] 07:55, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:This is fairly well documented. The pathfinding algorithm for throwing objects will balk if anything is in the way of the throw and refuse to allow you to throw. What's happening is that your soldiers have become so strong that their throws are intercepting the 'ceiling' of the Battlescape(the top of L3), and as such the game thinks that the throw is blocked(because in order for the throw to complete, the object would have to be tossed up to the nonexistant L4). There's two ways around this:<br />
<br />
:The Normal Way: Try shorter throws, throwing from lower heights, or throwing while kneeling. Beyond that, possibly get some new troops.<br />
<br />
:The Sneaky Way: Manually edit the Strength scores of your soldiers in [[SOLDIER.DAT]] so that they're back to a usable strength level. If you set "Initial Strength" (offset 46 decimal or 2E hex) to 0 and "Strength Improvement" (offset 57 decimal or 39 hex) to a value of 50, you can permanently lock the soldiers at 50 strength. (You can lock them higher than that if you so choose, but not lower.<br />
<br />
:Other than this, there's no workarounds I can think of offhand. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 08:10, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: There's normally no problem with the max level of 70 in open settings. However TFTD has a lot of low ceilings such as in the shipping lane missions and colonies, and the lower ceilings impairs your throwing quite a bit. In addition to shorter throws/kneeling, try moving out from under any overhangs if there is one just above you. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 12:33, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Bug not listed: Sticking your head through the ceiling ==<br />
This is something I just discovered: When you step on a small object inside of a building your soldier sticks his/her head through the ceiling and can see what's upstairs. You can even see the soldiers head coming out of the floor and that soldiers can shoot aliens upstairs. When I did this the alien I saw/shot was facing the other way, but I guess you could get shot if the alien was facing you. [[User:RedNifre|RedNifre]] 17:34, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:That's not listed under "Bugs" because it's covered under "Exploits", right here: [[Exploiting_Collison_Detection#See_Through_A_Ceiling]] [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:26, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: I don't know if it was ever covered anywhere, but there's this neat trick that might sound similar to the walk-through-'wall object'-wall trick except that it involves your unit climbing slopes. They'll appear as though they've gone up a level, but are actually not on that level. They only visually appear to be there, but are really still on the bottom level. <br />
<br />
:: It happens a lot when walking up the desert or forest slopes. I think the trick involves standing on ground level, and then ordering the unit to 'move' into the hill rather than setting the waypoint while on level 1. The soldier will move up the slope and perhaps stop on the slope or even reach the top of the slope, but will still appear when you're only viewing the ground map layer. The soldier is really still on the ground level, but will have elevation offset. <br />
<br />
:: One really interesting way of using this trick is in the mountain region. If you can find a cliff face and a low hill nearby, you can literally have your soldier scale the cliff by standing the soldier on the hill, and then walking towards the cliff. It's ridiculous, but your soldier never quite reaches the top of the cliff tiles, so ends up walking up a slope. <br />
<br />
:: On a side note, standing at the top of the ramp of the Skyranger is the same as standing on ground level - you're only offset a bit. This means that smoke on level 1 and the sides of the Skyranger will not provide protection when you're at the top of the ramp. <br />
<br />
:: On another related note in relation: In TFTD (doesn't happen a lot in UFO), you might find it difficult to toss grenades onto underwater slopes. To remedy this, raise the level up by one. It might look like you're tossing at air(and you are), but it'll get the grenade where you want it. Odd, but true. I must remember to put this in the grenade explanation section. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:11, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Base Defence bug that causes a crash? ==<br />
<br />
Does anyone know about a bug in a base defence mission that causes the game to crash? The game keeps crashing on the 4th or 5th alien turn.<br />
<br />
:I've encountered that myself, but it should be noted that overall, X-COM is not the most stable game and is prone to crashing often at anytime. The differences between the hardware it was designed for and the hardware we're running it on cannot be helping matters at all; it's really a small miracle it even runs without an emulator in the first place(I've got games from 1999 that will bluescreen my machine instantly). As such, I'm not sure it's worth noting as a bug, since it's a 'game feature'(albeit a detrimental one). In any case, what're you doing letting the aliens attack you anyways? ;) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:33, 18 July 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Sources for a DOS4GW transplant ==<br />
<br />
I was specifically thinking of the LucasArts Dark Forces demo, but I half-recall the actual source I used when testing that ~1999 was Id's DOOM. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 16:03, 7 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Phantom Carried Casualty ==<br />
<br />
You are carrying an unconscious soldier in one hand, and the soldier dies of his/her wounds. The dead soldier remains visible on the "left hand / right hand object" battlescape display, but is no longer visible in the inventory display. The problem can be fixed by moving another object into the same hand. <br />
<br />
I've seen this bug with UFO Extender by [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] - possibly might be something to do with his manipulation of the inventory screen, rather than a general bug. I believe I've also seen this with other objects that were being carried in the hands, disappearing from the Inventory screen, but I'm not sure. I don't think it's an item limit bug, as XcomUtil shows 40 item slots free. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:58, 21 September 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Civilians As Enemies to MC'd Aliens ==<br />
<br />
I ran across this issue a few times and just wondered if you guys experienced this. I MC'd a part of a Reaper (I always do the lower left for large aliens) on a Terror Site, then moved it a few squares. It suddenly stopped dead in it's tracks and then the alien spotted indicator increased by 1. When I clicked on the indicator to see where the enemy unit was, it brought me to L2 of the large apartment complex. However, nothing was there. When I sent a Flying-Suited soldier up there to peek in the window (eeek! A peeping tom!) he saw a female civilian standing there. This type of problem has happened numerous times to me so it's not a once-off thing. Maybe it's a LOS issue? Or maybe an alien indicator problem? Or a combination of the two? Don't know, but I'm curious if you guys have seen it. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 23:40, 19 December 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:There are a lot of major issues with MC'ing 4 square aliens. One of them being that you could accidentally MC an alien far off in the corner of the map, IIRC? Anyhow, maybe you should have tried MC'ing all 4 squares of the reaper and see if that changed things. -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]<br />
<br />
The long-range MC of other aliens when Mind-Controlling large aliens is only present in Terror From The Deep, due to a workaround to try and resolve the earlier bugs(and exploits) associated with controlling one square of a large unit at the time. In TFTD, successfully MC'ing part of a Large unit will also grant you control of the next three units in UNITPOS.DAT, in order. If you didn't MC the upper left portion of the large unit(the first UNITPOS entry for any large unit), you can potentially wind up in control of other aliens. So this doesn't apply to UFO. As for Zombie's issue, never seen it. And finally...Jasonred, on Talk pages, please indent your statement with colons so it differentiates from other people's comments, and sign your posts with 4 ~'s, like I will now do. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:42, 19 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
==Elerium Base Bug==<br />
<br />
Jasonred: This bug has long since been known about. Elerium units on the Battlescape can be picked up by shooting away the power source; this one item counts as 50 units, and as such ANY elerium item spawned on any Battlescape counts as 50 Elerium. This issue with your own Elerium spawning as collectable loot in a Base Defense mission only occurs in older DOS versions, and is at the whim of the 80 item limit. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:55, 18 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Base defense does not seem to follow the 80 item limit in that DOS version. There are a lot of bugs that have long been known about. However this one was not included in the ufopedia for some reason.<br />
:Also, the main thing about this bug is that it does not potentially double your elerium stores. It potentially multiplies them 50 times.<br />
:... First time this happened to me, I was pretty flabbergasted. Here I was being conservative with my limited Elerium, refraining from blowing up UFOs when possible, when I perform a base defense and gain 3000 Elerium from it. Holy spit. -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]<br />
<br />
Alright, my error. Thanks for clarifying. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:42, 19 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
==HWP Fusion Bomb and SWS PWT Displacer Ammo Manufacturing Cost Bug==<br />
<br />
At a cost of $15000, 400 Tech hours, 5 Zrbite, and 8 Aqua Plastics, this is the exact same cost as the HWP Fusion Bomb from X-COM EU, converted over to the equivalent TFTD resources. As such, it shouldn't be counted as a bug, since it is clearly what Mythos intended. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 09:55, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Hmm, in that case maybe it should be treated as a generic game engine issue and not a TFTD specific issue - but I still think it's a design error. Can you think of any logical reason why the SWS/HWP version of the ammo should be more expensive (in cost and in materials) than both the craft ammo and the (more powerful) personal ammo? It makes no logical sense. Hence I think it's a design error. Nothing can be inferred from the fact it's unchanged from XCOM-EU, that doesn't imply any deliberate decision. It could just be the replication of an original error in XCOM-EU. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 11:17, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: I can think of a logical reason to justify this: X-Com doesn't understand the technology as well as the aliens do (which is obvious, given the length of time each side has known the tech). Handheld Blaster/Blaster Bombs are just a copy of the alien design and therefor relatively cheap and efficient, but that can't be mounted on a turret. So X-Com has to make a new design, and they obviously didn't do that good a job as the aliens would have done. This explains Tank/Plasma being weaker than Heavy Plasma too. (Why is FBL Craft ammo cheaper than the tank ammo though? Maybe X-Com gave up on/simplified the guidance system and made it just a "dumb" cannon shell/torpedo instead which doesn't have multiple waypoints? Or maybe they just did a better job there?). [[User:Cesium|Cesium]] 04:07, 25 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Whilst we discuss it, I'll park my original text in here:<br />
<br />
* ''Displacer/PWT ammo cost bug - at over $100,000 total cost per round, the ammunition for this SWS weapon is far more expensive to manufacture (both in money and rare materials) than the equivalent ammo for the Aquanaut-carried Disruptor Pulse Launcher, or the craft-based Pulse Wave Torpedo, despite being less powerful than either. This would seem to be a design mistake.''<br />
<br />
See Also [[Talk:Displacer/PWT]]<br />
<br />
:: I don't like the higher cost either, but I think it's a tradeoff of expense and quality for the convenience of portability. Sort of like an MP3 player to the gramophone... or maybe that's not a good comparison. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 13:43, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
A better comparison might be a desktop computer to a laptop. As a general rule, laptops are more expensive, but a similarly priced desktop gives you more power. Desktops are cheaper and offer power, laptops are more expensive and offer portability(though the gap is rapidly narrowing). [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:49, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:I think those are good analogies. But they don't apply in this case. To continue your analogies: We are paying mainframe prices for a clunky desktop that has only laptop processing power, and we're buying a mainframe for desktop prices. The vehicle version ("desktop") - is ''less'' portable and ''less'' powerful than the personal version (DPL = "laptop"), ''less'' capable than the craft version ("mainframe") - and costs ''more'' than either of the others in total cash and in materials. In particular, it makes no sense that the small missiles on the SWS use up ''more'' of both Zrbite and Aqua Plastics than the Craft version. Do we really think it's logical that a tactical battlefield round, less powerful than its man-carried equivalent, takes more explosive and structural material to produce than both the more powerful man-carried version and also more than the air-to-air round that has 60km range and can take down a major alien combat craft? There is a clearly perverse bang-per-buck here, on every measure. My sincere belief is that this was an original mistake in the XCOM-EU engine that got copied into TFTD as well. The craft round should have the higher base price, but the material requirements that are currently assigned to the SWS/HWP round. It's debatable whether the SWS/HWP rounds should be more expensive than the man-carried rounds. But what I don't think is debatable is that is not logical for the SWS/HWP rounds to be more expensive than the craft rounds. It's clearly a mistake. Even in game balance terms, the only thing the HWP/SWS rounds have going for them is conserving "80-Item Limit" space, which I severely doubt was ever a game design consideration since it's just an awkward programming compromise. Any advantage inherent in the HWP/SWS is already reflected in the very high platform cost - there is no need to inflate the ammo costs as well. The bottom line is that a round for a (mini-)tank does not cost more, does not use more materials, than the same type of round for a long range anti-aircraft weapon that has much greater damage capacity and penetrating capacity. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:35, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
I'm going to add this to the bug list now. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 16:06, 25 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Still don't think this is a bug though. Just because it's more expensive to manufacture than the hand-held or craft-mounted ammo, it doesn't mean the stats are wrong. Perhaps the programmers wanted to balance the tactical portion of the game a little more by making the ammo cost more for tanks. It doesn't have to be logical to be intended. Now if you had proof which said that the ammo was supposed to cost less but the stats were wrong, then yes, I'd agree. So if you boil it all down it comes to a disparate logic issue, not a bug.--[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:31, 25 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
::I have to side with Zombie here. While the ammo may be disproportionately expensive, by the definition used on the rest of the page for bug, it doesn't fit. All the other bugs are errors in program logic or function or routines that are unintentional problems with the game, most of which are not warned of ahead of time. The ammo for the tank costs exactly what is listed and operates entirely as intended, whereas the rest of the bugs are not intended game features. Even if the numbers were entered wrong, that would be a data entry error, not a program bug. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:28, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:If it was a data entry error, I'd consider that a type of bug... assuming we had proof of the goof so to speak. LOL. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 00:49, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: It feels too specific an entry to be a data entry error. <br />
<br />
:: I'm reminded of the high explosive. I know, I know - it's not an exact parallel to the FBL issue. A High Explosive is practically two grenades. Double weight, double bulk. Slightly above two times the damage. However, it costs five times the price of a standard grenade. Even though you're paying more for not-as-much, I don't think that could be considered a bug. A rip off, yes, but not a bug. <br />
<br />
:: Here's a thought: Think about the immediate benefits each of the two controversial ammo types give back to you. Aircraft ammo = activity points. Tank ammo = loot. Yes, I know that aircraft ammo also generate crash sites, but you still have the ground combat to contend with. <br />
<br />
:: One other thought: With careful management of your ammo, you'll probably never spend any elerium on the handheld version's ammo. Could it be the handheld that's really at issue here rather than the others? In the end I feel that it doesn't really matter. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:38, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I'm with Zombie that a data entry error is a bug (we have other examples), but also agree some proof is probably needed. And I agree with NKF that in the scheme of things, it doesn't really matter much. I don't think the HE pack is a good comparison (though the HE pack should be heavier) as it's reasonable to pay disprortionately more to get additional power at the same tech level. The fusion weapons are a case of paying more to actually get ''less'' power. I am not bothered by the handheld vs vehicle balance, not least because the game generally makes handheld weapons better than their vehicle equivalents, so I can accept that as an across-the-board design decision. <br />
<br />
: I can also see a game balance argument ''if'' we believe that Fusion Tank ammo is more of an overall game-winning weapon than craft Fusion Bombs. But I'm not sure I agree with that statement. And even if it's true, and there's a game balance argument (in which case it would apply equally to handheld Fusion launchers), it's still illogical. The less powerful, battlefield warhead should not cost massively more in exotic materials than the much more powerful air to air warhead that brings down Battleships. I agree though that just because it's illogical does not prove it's a bug (i.e. unintended). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 07:48, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
Ok we more or less seem to be in agreement that this isn't a bug, but it is very confusing/illogical. Maybe we can shift the "bug" text from the article page and roll that into the [[Hovertank/Launcher]] and [[Displacer /P. W. T.]] pages now. Feel free to combine any text from the discussion above if necessary. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 09:22, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Unless we can ''prove'' it's a data entry error (unlikely), how about calling it an "Anomaly" instead of a bug? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 10:59, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
Looks like plain old game imbalance to me.<br />
The way I see it, Hovertank Plasma and Launcher were meant to be stronger. Much much stronger. Let's look at Tank Cannon, Launcher and Laser. The logic is that it's a tank mounted weapon, so the tank can carry a much larger and more powerful version of the same weapon, right?<br />
It's pretty stupid that a Hovertank Plasma is weaker than the Heavy Plasma... you could just mount a Heavy Plasma on a Hovertank and get them exactly equal. In fact, I suspect that the hovertanks were ALSO meant to have more powerful weapons than the man-portable versions.<br />
Unfortunatly, the game designers then realised that this made the hovertanks far too powerful. So... the programmers nerfed the power of the hovertank weapons. BUT they forgot to lower the ammo costs. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 11:20, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Well you are opening up a much larger issue there. The Fusion weapons are an anomaly, an inconsistency. But handheld weapons are more powerful than equivalent vehicle weapons across the board, consistently. So that looks like a deliberate design decision, not a mistake. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:33, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: There are two exceptions to the rule: Tank/Cannon: 60AP vs. Heavy Cannon 56AP. Tank/Laser: 110 Laser vs. Heavy Laser: 85 Laser. The hovertank\plasma only differs by a measly 5 (an extra 0 - 10 damage, which means a lot vs. UFO inner hull armour). I guess the trend here was to moderate the area effect tank strengths. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:22, 26 February 2009 (CST) <br />
<br />
I'd have to agree with you there Spike. This wasn't a mistake, however odd it may seem. It was a deliberate attempt to try and balance the game. Below is a table I created ages ago for my (now defunct) strategy guide detailing the HWP's and what handheld weapon corresponds to it. When you stick them side-by-side, it really becomes apparent that the programmers were trying to base the HWP weapons off the handheld weapons somewhat. The only thing that doesn't follow a nice and distinct scheme is the damage. That's what is the clincher. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:26, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br><br />
<table {{StdCenterTable}} class="sortable"><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left" width="150">Tank Type</th><th width="70">DAM</th><th width="80">Snap</th><th width="90">Aimed</th><th width="90">Aimed</th><th width="80">Snap</th><th width="70">DAM</th><th align="right" width="140">Handheld</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Tank/Cannon</th><td>60</td><td>60%</td><td>90%</td><td>90%</td><td>60%</td><td>56<sup>1</sup></td><th align="right">Heavy Cannon</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Rocket Launcher</th><td>85</td><td>55%</td><td>115%</td><td>115%</td><td>55%</td><td>87.5<sup>2</sup></td><th align="right">Rocket Launcher</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Laser Cannon</th><td>110</td><td>50%</td><td>85%</td><td>84%</td><td>50%</td><td>85</td><th align="right">Heavy Laser</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Hovertank/Plasma</th><td>110</td><td>85%</td><td>100%</td><td>100%</td><td>86%</td><td>80</td><th align="right">Plasma Rifle</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Hovertank/Launch</th><td>140</td><td>--%</td><td>120%</td><td>120%</td><td>--%</td><td>200</td><th align="right">Blaster Launcher</th></tr> <br />
</table><br />
<sup>1</sup>AP rounds.<br><br />
<sup>2</sup>Average between the Small and Large Rocket.<br />
<br />
<br />
: Hold up! Tank rounds do 60AP. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:22, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
So what's wrong? The table says 60 for the Tank/Cannon and 56 for HC-AP. Those are correct, no? --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 23:41, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Sorry, didn't realise it was two tables side by side (or rather mirrored). Eyes only noticed the left side of the table. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:53, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: If the Hovertank Launcher did 200 damage, or worse if the Hovertank Launcher did EVEN MORE damage than the Blaster Launcher... that would make them easily the most deadly things on the map. As it is, the hovertank launcher is already pretty overpowered, even with 140 power.<br />
<br />
== DOS4GW - What the heck is it? ==<br />
<br />
It's been ages since I had to remember this stuff, so those who remember clearer than I do, forgive me if my descriptions aren't accurate. Hopefully the general idea will come across. <br />
<br />
Back in ye olde days of computere gamynge - and where there were more E's to go around, memory handling was a tricky beast to handle. Computer memory is divided into several different categories. Conventional, extended and I think expanded. I might be jumbling the terminologies for the last two a bit. Doesn't matter - memory was just cut up into small segments. The two most common memory types to PCs at the time were pretty small but were readily available. The third one - the most expandable (aka the chip with its massive 4 Megs of RAM you just spent your whole month's allowance on!), wasn't as easy to get at. <br />
<br />
To get access to the higher memory that was available to the computer, special memory handlers had to be used. Drivers like HIMEM, emm386, etc were used. <br />
<br />
DOS4GW is one such handler that lets the game access the computer's available expanded memory. Lots of games that came out at the time use this. Doom, Duke Nukem 3d, Syndicate, Ultima Underworld, X-Com UFO/TFTD, etc. LOTS of games. Any time you ran a game from the dos console and you saw the Dos4GW message flash by briefly it would be assisted by it (well, it stayed on the screen for ages back when processors were slower!). <br />
<br />
It took the hassle out of memory handling and let the game access the available memory on the computer as one big flat block of memory to play with. <br />
<br />
So what was meant in the article was to simply replace the dos4gw.exe with a more up-to-date version from another game. I think the way to tell its version was just in the message that it displayed. You can just run the dos4gw.exe file in a console window. It'll give an error, but the message it shows will indicate its version. UFO 1.4 uses Dos4gw 1.95, for example. <br />
<br />
-[[User:NKF|NKF]] 01:22, 6 March 2009 (CST)<br />
:DOS4GW also switched the processor from 16bit to 32bit mode. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 13:58, 6 March 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
== Clipping ==<br />
I have a new bug. Its harmless. I have a savegame (EU CE - modified game) which has a sectoid within another sectoid. In the alien turn, one secturd walked off the roof and dropped down <s>onto</s> into another. (I guess there DNA is indentical afterall, so they 'become one' with the world). If you want the savegame (superhuman edited using UFOloader, UFO Mod v1, xcomed, Khor Chin WeapEdit v0.1) drop me a request on the my page somewhere. [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]] 01:40, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Not something many would encounter, but definitely something that can happen. Units can occupy the same physical space, but the game cannot display them all. It'll only draw one of them. Actually saw this effect happen back in the early days of XComutil when it gained the ability to manually add new aliens into a battlescape. It did this by slotting them into the same spaces occupied by existing aliens. Then the fun would happen when you saw a couple of Mutons suddenly walk out of a sectoid. Not sure how the game determines who gets hurt when struck by a bullet. May very well depend on the order they are stored in the unitpos.dat file. <br />
<br />
: There are a couple of ways you can replicate this in-game, but I can only provide theories on how you could do it. Such as shooting the ceiling above you and letting the unit drop through, or moving a tank off a ledge and getting its non-primary segments land directly on top of another unit. By the way, the rear end of tanks get stuck in walls if you attempt to move north or east off any ledges. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:18, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Ok, so as long as others know about this, then all is good. I had never seen it and was doing alot of head scratching until I shot the alien.<br />
<br />
== Berserk HWP crashes the game ==<br />
In the article page it mentions that aliens which go berserk with their integrated weapons will crash the game. This is only true for Mind Controlled aliens (or units under X-COM control) - alien controlled units which go berserk do not crash the game. I tested an MC'd Celatid just now and it doesn't crash the game either, though it doesn't immediately go berserk - it waits another turn for some odd reason. Someone want to check this to verify my results? --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:31, 27 December 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== 80-items limit on CE edition ==<br />
<br />
I have the feeling that the 80-items limit does not apply to the CE edition and is instead a 110-items limit (at least during base defence). Can anyone confirm? [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 16:24, 24 February 2010 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I believe this limit was increased for TFTD. Maybe it was also increased for the CE edition of UFO, and only ever applied to the DOS edition of UFO?? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:03, 11 March 2010 (EST)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Known_Bugs&diff=33620Talk:Known Bugs2011-05-12T22:18:46Z<p>Jasonred: /* Bugs vs Exploits */</p>
<hr />
<div>= Classification etc =<br />
<br />
== Bugs vs Exploits ==<br />
<br />
Could someone comment please on the distinction between a bug and an exploit, and where to put each one? I would guess that a bug is something that undesirable and an exploit "might be" desirable, if you want to cheat. But what about exploits that happen by accident, or bugs that need to be forced to happen? <br />
<br />
I was going to add the Research Rollover bug to the Exploits sections, but they seem to all be under construction. What's the agreed approach?<br />
<br />
[[User:Spike|Spike]] 04:16, 15 March 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
* i think that an exploit is somthing you can trigger and gain an advantage from. a bug may or may not have a known trigger, and does not give an advantage if it does.<br />
: All exploits are bugs, either in implementation or design. When using a bug to gain advantages that bug is used as an exploit (you are exploiting the bug). [[User:FrederikHertzum|FrederikHertzum]] 13:39, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: IMHO, Laser Pistols Gifts to train reactions is an exploit, but it does not involve any bugs. It merely exploits the fact that laser pistols will not penetrate the front armor of Flying Suits. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 16:31, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: I guess the point is to differentiate if it's a bug that's being exploited to your advantage, or it it's something confined within the game mechanics that you are exploiting to your advantage (even if using it as intended). -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:31, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::: Another definition: An exploit is <br />
::::: a) a move allowed by game interface <br />
::::: b) that sidesteps another part of the game mechanics<br />
::::: c) and creates inadequate advantage for the moving player in the process.<br />
::::: An exploit is not a bug, but it can be connected with a bug, if the latter allows a move mentioned in a). Most obvious exploits render whole parts of game mechanics obsolete (see b) above), because they are always more advantageous. In games that feature equal terms for AI and the player, an exploit can be discerned simply by the fact that AI does not use it (sadly this is not true in X-COM). Clear exploit in X-COM: Transfer soldiers = no monthly payment. Suspect exploits: grenade layout. Most probably not an exploit: Sniping (although the inequality with AI is suspect). Clearly not an exploit: dropping weapons to prevent Psi mass murder (this one is made exploitable by the AI unable to pick up weapons, but is not an exploit per se).--[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 05:30, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
The dropping weapons sort of turns into an exploit if you do the "everyone suspect of being a psi weakling drops their weapons at the end of the turn. They all pick up their weapons again if unpsied in the next turn." The grenade layout or grenade hot potato is probably not what the game designers had in mind, but I shudder at the thought of someone who only played X-com then joined the army pulling the pin out of his grenade and then dropping it into his haversack or slinging it on his belt. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 07:43, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Yeah, I think we agreed somewhere that shoving live grenades in your pockets and not having them go off is madness. The relay however is not sensible but certainly possible if only a very short one (if with a live grenade), or to toss a grenade forward and prime it at the second to last person. Or more reasonably, something like a stick of dynamite with an extra long fuse. Even that's very dangerous. <br />
<br />
: By the way, what does everyone here think of using the mind probe to check if it's safe to attack an alien while standing in full view of it, or if you're right up next to it? I've been using it a lot lately (in lieu of the psi amp), so you could say I've been exploiting the mind probe to my advantage to help me with my decision making. But is that counted as a cheat since I'm picking my moments to attack up close when the enemy cannot return fire? -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:30, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: When identifying a mechanic as an "unfair exploit" (as opposed to just a "tactic"), perhaps a simpler checklist is this (though Kyrub's is spot-on):<br />
<br />
:: a) Is this something the developers should've expected players to do?<br />
:: b) Is this something the developers could've easily prevented?<br />
<br />
:: If the answer to both is "yes", then it seems fair game to me. For eg, sniping at aliens: The game KNOWS whether the soldier can see the target (you get a flashing indicator if so), and so it would've been trivial to prevent it. Is it something the regular gamer will try? Certainly; therefore it can be considered expected behaviour. Ditto for using the Mind Probe to make attacks without fear of reaction fire; those things aren't cheap, they sell for a bunch, so it stands to reason that they'd have tactical value!<br />
<br />
:: Things like the transfer bug are clear exploits. The devs would've implemented that system so that, if you order personal near the end of the month, you don't end up paying for them twice before they ever arrive - but in the process, they forgot that "purchase" transfers are treated in the same way as "between-base" transfers. To fix one scenario without breaking the other, they'd've needed to code in some extra stuff so the game could tell the difference - they probably just figured the regular gamer would never notice, assuming they ever realised the problem existed.<br />
<br />
:: The "dropping weapons" thing is a little trickier to work out - yes, the devs should've seen it coming, but would it've been easy to fix? Aliens could've been twigged to either ignore un-armed soldiers... but those soldiers could re-equip next turn. Aliens could also've been twigged to attack randomly... but that would make their psi powers far LESS effective! I suppose the fix, if any, would've been unarmed melee attacks, but the implementation they went with seems to be the next best thing IMO.<br />
<br />
:: In regards to the "grenades in inventory" thing, it's probably common knowledge by now, but they DO go off in the alpha of the game. Presumably someone made a conscious decision to change that, though it could still just be an accidental bug. - <span style="font-size:xx-small">&nbsp;[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke|Contribs]])</span> 09:02, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Sniping at aliens is a very bizarre case, since almost all players will fall prey to the aliens sniping at you long before they snipe the aliens. The behaviour of the aliens to step within sight radius, take one step back, then fire without fear of retaliation *looks* and *feels* like clear exploitation of the rules, but the computer can't be a cheater, can it? So we humans carry that one step further. Mind you, I think X-com would be in trouble if the aliens could snipe you from across the map once they know your positions... especially since the aliens have cheating "if I spot 1 human, I spot ALL of them" abilities. Especially on maps where the aliens get Blaster Bombs...<br />
<br />
An interesting note about sniping and LOS: When I first played Xcom, my first mission was in the jungle. Because of all those plants, when my first soldiers spotted an alien, after he shot at him, I tried to make my 2nd soldier open fire and was informed "NO Line of Fire". I could only get my 2nd soldier to fire by positioning him in such a way that I got the flashing number. Henceforth, I assumed that you could ONLY fire at the aliens when the flashing number was there. LOL. LOF. LOS.<br />
<br />
Transfer bug wise, I thought that the devs merely programmed the game to count how many staff were currently in the base, then deduct that from Xcom coffers? As far as ordering personnel near month end goes, you end up paying salary for them if you order them more than 48 hours from month end, right? "realistically", they should make staff draw salaries based on when they were hired, but this would be too much effort.<br />
<br />
"dropping weapons" would have been easy enough to fix... just teach alien AI how to pick up weapons. Like they did in Apocalypse.<br />
<br />
As far as grenade relays go, if you ever join the army, and you toss a live grenade at your squadmate, you're gonna be court martialled! lol. Xcom grenades are weird cause they presumably come with a computer console where you program them or something that takes a lot of TU, if I already have a grenade in my hand I don't think it takes long to prime it compared to throwing it...<br />
<br />
Pretty clear exploit/bug is tossing grenades through the ceiling? That breaks all laws of realism/logic/whatever, and I'm sure the devs didn't plan for THAT to happen! [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:18, 12 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Bugs vs Limits ==<br />
<br />
''(Discussion continued from [[Talk:Known Bugs#Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested|Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested]])''<br />
<br />
The "Soldier Recruiting Limit" is <b>not</b> a bug, it is a limitation of the game. Therefore, this should be removed from the page. If we want it somewhere else (like a new page such as [[Game Limitations]]), that would be appropriate. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 01:42, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::Not sure that's necessarily the best idea, Zombie, since many of the entries on the Known Bugs article(as well as some entries on the Exploits pages) are limitations of the game engine. On just a brief glance through, the following caught my eye as engine limitations: Manufacturing limit, Storage limit, Purchase limit, 80-item limit, Proximity Grenade limit, Large units not waking up from stun, Interception last shot bug, Alien UFL radar blitz-through bug(Passing through the detection range of a radar before the detection check comes up), Free manufacturing, free wages, UFO Redux, point-scoring with Ctrl-C, permanent MC of chryssalids, Zombie-MC resurrection of agents, alien inventory exploits, anything involved with bad collision detection, extinguishing fire with a Smoke Grenade, and even your personal favorite, denying the aliens access to their own spawn points. So in conclusion, maybe it should just be left as it is; conversely, all of these entries could be kept where they are and also on a Game Limitations page, or we could leave the headers there and link them over to the appropriate topics on Game Limitations. What do you think? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:21, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I agree with AQ (great list of examples by the way - and the Smoke/Fire limit would be another). Many, if not most, of the bugs are "Limitations" but they are logically inconsistent and not what a player would expect to happen: they are imposed by (at best) memory limitations or (at worst) design/programming oversights. I think the easiest thing to do would be to change the title of the page to Known Bugs and Limitations, or put an explanatory note at the beginning of the section to explain that "Bugs" is taken to included "Limitations". [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:16, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
By the strictest sense of meaning, a "bug" is a mistake or error on the programmers part. Limitations imposed <i>by design</i> or memory are not the same creature as the people involved were consciously aware of the decision. I suppose that to the normal player, any type of behavior which is unexpected/unwanted is automatically dumped in the bug category because to them there is no difference. To those of us who study the game files however, the two are unequivalent. Programming oversights, yes, those are bugs.<br />
<br />
Some of those limitations AQ mentions are (to me at least) bugs: free manufacturing, free wages, permanent MC of Cryssies (or actually any alien for that matter), Zombie resurrections and collision detection. Large aliens not waking up from stun is again, a bug. The programmers obviously had some issues when dealing with large units in general and never quite got it right. They made some progress in TFTD by trying to fix mind controlling each section of a large unit, but royally screwed it up by selecting the next 3 entries in UNITPOS.DAT no matter what they pointed to.<br />
<br />
Perhaps it's just my background in logic which makes me want to push for a separate category for limitations. Then again, as long as everything is listed somewhere I'm happy. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 22:06, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Actually, taking a look through the page as a whole there are various other Limits described, and the distinction between Bugs and Limits is made quite rigorously throughout - not just in the Soldier Limits and Bugs section, where the Soldier Recruiting Limit is referred to as a Limit whereas other bugs (such as paying salaries for soldiers you can't recruit) are referred to as Bugs. So we maybe just need to rename the pages "Bugs and Limits" and add an explanatory note on the distinction. From a user point of view, rather than a programmer point of view, a bug is an unexpected (inconsistent or illogical) behaviour, so for that reason I think it makes sense to keep them on the same page but try to ensure they are all correctly classified as Bug or Limit.<br />
<br />
: By the way, it could be hard to absolutely distinguish Bugs from Limits as I suspect there are going to be some grey areas where you would have to second-guess the intentions and decisions of the coders to know for sure if something was a designed-in Limit, or just an oversight (Bug). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 06:50, 10 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::If we distinguish in this manner, I suggest the definition of "Limit" should be, "Something imposed by the game files or engine as a limitation, most likely in context to the capabilites of the then-current personal computer." More succinctly, anything that was done to allow the game to run acceptably on what was then a PC. This would include both the Soldier and 80-Item limits, the spawn limit(40 units per side), Smoke/Fire limit, and some of the others listed. (The Purchase limit was probably more of a convienence for the programmers than anything, but it is clearly an intended feature.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:11, 10 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I would add to this that sometimes a Limit may be imposed as a game design / gameplay decision, rather than in order to conserve a constrained resource in the platform (=PC). Also, I would suggest that ''intended'' Limits are Limits, but ''unintended'' consequences of Limits are Bugs. Obviously, making this distinction involves some guesswork. But I would guess that while the limit on total smoke/fire hexes was an intended Limit (to conserve PC resources), the ability to put out fires with smoke grenades and disperse smoke with IC rounds is probably an unintended consequence of the Limit, and so should probably be considered a Bug. Similarly, Base Defence spawn points are probably an intended limit, but the ability to flood spawn points is an unintended consequence of this, and thus a Bug (and an Exploit). (Spawn points should have been shared out 50/50, not humans-first). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:07, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::The limit on Soldier and Interception craft were probably more of a limit imposed because they capped the file and figured that X-COM wouldn't ever need more than 40 interception craft or 250 soldiers. (And I've never needed that many, case in point.)<br />
<br />
::As for spawns, its actually difficult to take advantage of it in any reasonably established base. X-COM can spawn up to 40 soldiers in a base defense mission(tanks count as 4 soldiers), as a limit of LOC.DAT. Aliens have the same limit. So in order to take advantage of the bug, the base needs 40 or less spawns total. The Access Lift has 8 spawn points, General Stores(weapon-handling) has 11, Living Quarters has 8 more. This is 27 Spawns just getting soldiers in a base and armed. (Although the General Stores can be cut out if you perform the bug properly). Large Radar and HWD have 6 spawns(Small Radar has 2), and Hangar has 15. So overall, the "Spawn prevention" can be hard to take advantage of with all but the smallest bases. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 14:48, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
Just to clarify, X-COM interception craft are not capped at 40 ships. LOC.DAT has a cap of 50 "things" on the geoscape screen at a time. This is shared between X-COM bases, X-COM ships, alien bases, seen or unseen UFO's, terror sites, crash sites, landing sites and waypoints. In a perfect game world with little alien activity and normally constructed bases, the max number of X-COM craft possible is 44: 5 bases with 8 hangars each plus one base with 4 hangars (or any combination thereof). If you illegally modify your base layout with an editor to get rid of the access lift, the max can be increased to 45 ships (9 hangars in 5 bases). Once clogged, all alien activity will cease.<br />
<br />
The base defense limit of 40 units exists because of UNITPOS.DAT which has a cap of 80 entries total (tanks occupy 4 entries in this file). Auto-win missions in a base defense mission by clogging all the spawn points with X-COM units isn't as tough as it sounds, especially if your base is small or doesn't contain hangars. The main thing is getting your full quota of 40 units to spawn (meaning you should try not to have any tanks as they count as 4 units but only occupy one spawn point). This limits the base size to something like 5-6 modules depending on what you build. Still, even having more than 6 modules isn't bad as it forces aliens to spawn intermingled between your troops. With 40 armed guys staring in every direction, you can get positions of all the aliens in the first round and possibly even kill them all (depends on weapons and alien race of course). --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I would say that Limits are the CAUSE of bugs... also, I feel that fire/smoke limit can be called a bug, because a player normally has no way to tell this, other than observation. Whereas the game DIRECTLY and CLEARLY informs you whenever you hit the 80 item or 250 soldier limits, which is more fair. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:22, 23 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
= Specific Bug Discussions =<br />
<br />
== Misc Technical Bug ? ==<br />
<br />
''(The context of this discussion seems to have been lost)''<br />
<br />
This is a technical bug that doesn't happen to everyone and one this article wasn't really meant to chronical - but we won't turn away helping a fellow player if it can't be helped. It's just that there are so many random crash points in this game that it would take far too long to find them all or come up with solutions for them. <br />
<br />
Certainly, the transfer crash can happen to some players, but it's not one that can be reproduced easily. It's just like the random crash that some players get when they research a floater medic. It crashes the game for some of us, but others don't seem to notice it at all. <br />
<br />
It really depends on your hardware and OS setup, whether or not your copy of the game is damaged or your savegame is damaged, etc. <br />
<br />
Does it happen in all games or just this one savegame? <br />
<br />
- [[User:NKF|NKF]] <br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
== "Invisible Muton" bug ==<br />
<br />
Upon shooting repeatedly a Muton, it sometimes plays its "death" animation without sound (as if falling unconscious) and it is no longer displayed in the screen, while remaining visible to my soldiers (I can center the screen and the cursor appears yellow over them). Under this state, they cannot be targeted by Stun Rods. They may play their death animation anytime they get shot, until they truly die, when they emit their characteristic sound and leave a corpse (along with any items carried).<br />
<br />
I'm quite fond of laser weapons, maybe this happens more often with those.<br />
<br />
Also, though I remember experiencing this quite often fighting Mutons, it may happen to any other high health race.--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 02:59, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
Never seen that one myself. Another "unpatched game" thing maybe?<br />
<br />
There's a (very rare) bug that allows your soldiers to live if they become stunned by an explosion that happens to kill them. Sometimes the game will register their death, and THEN register that they've been stunned. In every case I've seen this happen, however, the unit will have such a low amount of health that a single fatal wound will render it dead (again) on the next turn. I have a vague memory that other players may have been able to get a medkit to the scene on time...<br />
<br />
I dunno if that's related to your issue at all (I doubt it, but... meh). I'd advise using a Mind Probe on the alien the next time it happens so you can check the aliens stun/health levels.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure I've seen this with Mutons. Possibly Chrysallids as well, another high health, high armor creature. They were still readily killed by shooting the place they are. Good thought on the MP, BB<br />
<br />
---[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 08:51, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I've been known to have a dying muton(in fire) to spin around and then switch to the female civilian death animation. With the scream and everything. Even got a civilian death registered at the end of the mission. And this didn't just happen once, but on another separate occasion.<br />
<br />
Hmm. shape-shifting reptilians in the game! LOL! Happens alot [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Unusually enough, I once had a sectopod die and then drop a tank corpse. I was using the Lightning at the time for my troop carrier, so you can imagine my surprise. <br />
<br />
Then there was one occasion where a floater dropped a snakeman corpse. Let's not even get into the sort of things the aliens like to stuff themselves with. <br />
<br />
Your invisible alien bug is quite common, although there appears to be many causes for it. I think one involves a full object table when it comes to invisible aliens in bases. But it can also happen in ordinary missions as well. I'm guessing the game may have tried to do something in the wrong order, and sprite information for the unit may have been lost or corrupted along the way. <br />
<br />
Having had an experience where all the chryssalids become invisible in one base defence mission was quite a shocker. I fixed this by saving the game, quitting and then restarting the game. If you ever get an invisible alien again, try this and see if it helps. If it doesn't, well, just keep a careful watch on your map and any alerts that pop up as you play. <br />
<br />
There's a similar but less severe bug where a dead alien will still leave its centre-on-unit alert button, but this goes away shortly after you move or turn. <br />
<br />
- [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
That last bug happens when exploding Cyberdiscs kill nearby Sectoids, doesn't it?--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 23:56, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
This is a pretty easy one. I guess this bug occured on UFO recovery on a battleship, an alien base assault or a base defense mission? As soon as there are too many items on the map, the game saves some item slots for the equipment to be displayed (since it is more valuable and more important to research). This would also make stun weapons lethal if the stunned aliens would vanish. therefore the game has a failsafe if an alien is stunned (or badly wounded and becoming uncontious). The downed alien's stun level is set exactly on its left health points therefore resurrecting it instantly. This cycle is broken when the alien is finally killed. This means if you want to stun an alien in such a situation you have to destroy some items first.<br />
<br />
- by tequilachef (April 4th 2007)<br />
<br />
== Vanishing snakemen ==<br />
<br />
I've known snakemen to become invisible when standing on a hay bale. On the first occassion I had a poor tank getting shot while spending numerous turns looking for it. On the second occasion I had an alien under Psi-control, left it on the hay bale, and couldn't find it next turn. - Egor<br />
<br />
---<br />
<br />
This is not limited to snakemen. Hay bale block visibility quite much when a unit is standing on it. Two possible solutions:<br />
- Destroy the hay before entering<br />
- Shoot at the hay. If it is destroyed any unit on it will become visible (as long as no other bales are blocking the line of sight). You might also hit the enemy directly.<br />
<br />
I Dnt know if the aliens are affected by this diminished sight, too. My guess would be no.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)<br />
<br />
== Blaster Bomb Bug ==<br />
<br />
I'm currently playing through X-com UFO Defense, I have the collectors edition version. I'm in the process of trying to catch a live alien commander and the blaster bomb bug is making this very difficult. If i remember correctly a commander is always in the command center of the the alien bases. The problem is anytime i get close there is always a dude with a blaster launcher up there that tries to kill my troops. When they try to fire it down at me the bug kicks in and they blow up the whole command room and all the aliens in it because they can't figure out how to get the blaster bomb down the grav lift thing in there. This is making it very dificult to actually catch a live commander. Anyone have any ideas for tactics or anything to breach that room without the aliens trying to fire a blaster launcher up there? - eL Hector<br />
<br />
: I can suggest two possible solutions. The first is to wait outside the command room for the alien to move closer to you. If it comes out of the room or if you know it has moved down the lift, you then burst in and stand right next to it to stop it from firing the blaster. This is risky because there could very well be a heavy plasma toting alien in there. The other is to use a small launcher and launch it up at the ceiling near where you think the alien with the blaster is standing. -[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Disappearing Ammunition ==<br />
<br />
I have observed that problem with X-COM 1.2, modded with XCOMUTIL. My stun bombs and heavy rocket missiles, along with clips for the auto cannon went missing.<br />
[[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]<br />
<br />
------<br />
<br />
Just run a test using my 1.4 DOS version with XComUtil but my stun bombs didn't disappear: 30 + 1 back in the base they came from, same number after I went tactical and I dusted-off immediately. Are you running XComUtil with Runxcom.bat or did you simply run Xcusetup?<br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 22:12, 22 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Is it a case of hitting the 80-item limit?--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 12:28, 23 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
------<br />
With runxcomw.bat, as everytime. Apologies, I retested and it seems like I was mistakened, but I could have sworn that I lost them dang stunbombs. Had to manufacture some. I will test some more, using four heavy weapons and seeing whether their ammunition disappears at all. Thanks. [[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]<br />
<br />
==MC at end = MIA?==<br />
<br />
I am sure I have seen this again recently, where I won a mission with no casualties (I thought), but the last thing I killed was a Commander that had been chain MC'ing a psi-attack-magnet trooper, and that trooper was listed as MIA at the end (presumably because he was on the enemy side at the end of combat). Is this a bug, or is there another way to get MIA's on a completed mission that I might have missed?<br />
<br />
Since then I have been waiting for the leaders to panic at the end before killing them (or waiting for a rare resist), so I can safely exit, but am I being overcautious?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 13:45, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
If the trooper was mind controlled on the turn you killed the last alien it will be listed as MIA. No bug there :) <br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 18:16, 1 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
Huh, why would that happen - your soldier should recover the very next round, why would he go MIA?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 18:20, 1 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
Doesn't make sense to me as well but that's how the game works. <br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 15:05, 2 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
It seems that regaining control of units under enemy mind control works different for alien and human players. My guess: aliens under human MC are reverted to alien control AFTER THE ALIEN AND BEFORE THE HUMAN TURN while human units under alien control are reverted RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE HUMAN TURN. This explains three different phenomenons:<br />
<br />
- The discussed MIA "bug" (he unit would be returned in the next human turn, but since it never starts it is lost. The mission is still won since no unit with a "genuine alien" marking is left)<br />
<br />
- The fact that a mission is lost when the last human falls under MC while it is not won when this happens to the last standing alien (the aliens get their unit back before their turn starts and therefore have a unit left to pass the "anyone alive?" check, the humans would have no unit left to start a turn with. They WOULD have as soon as the turn starts, but no unit left before turn means bust)<br />
<br />
- The fact that aliens still can see all an MCed human saw at the end of the human turn that follows the MC while this is not vice versa (The MCed human can give information to the alien side before reverted while an MCed alien is reverted too early). The result is that aliens can control a human indefinitely without having any alien seeing him until the MC is disrupted for one turn.<br />
<br />
All confused? Then I did a good job! No seriously, this must be the explanation, I couldn't think of any other way.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)<br />
<br />
: You're absolutely correct on the first two points. It's a sequence issue - you never get round to recovering the unit before the new turn starts, so you end without any units whatsoever. Makes senses too since the aliens would continue to continue to mind control that same unit over and over indefinitely. <br />
<br />
: The third point however: The aliens don't need to know the location of the last MC'd unit. They know the location of all your troops whether they've seen them or not from the very start. They appear to give you a few turns of grace where they won't attack you outright (unless, from my observation, all your soldiers are incredibly weak). This is evident because all of the aliens will eventually make their way towards the nearest soldier even though their movement pattern may seem semi-random. Also, they know where you are because they can initiate psionic attacks without having seen any of your troops. They generally go after the weakest troops first. <br />
<br />
: Just to add a semi-related point, but from the alien's perspective. If an MC'd alien unit is in the exits when you abort the mission, this alien is not recovered and in fact simply vanishes. Any equipment it was carrying is recovered, unknown artefacts or otherwise. You could possibly think of this as their version of MIA. However, the aliens differ ever so slightly in that if it's the last alien standing and under temporary mind control by the player, the mission doesn't end straight away. But I guess this is only because the player has everything under control, whereas in the other scenario, the Ai is in control. <br />
<br />
: -[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Crash Site in the atlantic ocean ==<br />
<br />
That's right, my game generated a crash site on water. Here are the details:<br />
<br />
- Crash Site a bit southeast of the USA (which was infiltrated a few days before by sectoids, resulting base had already been taken out), but certainly not on land.<br />
<br />
- UFO: battleship, floater, alien harvest<br />
<br />
- Geoscape: 8 X-Com Bases, 1 (known) Alien base, 2 other crash sites, 1 other (known) flying UFO (though almost worldwide decoder coverage), 3 X-Com Crafts out, 1 waypoint<br />
<br />
- Date: January 2000<br />
<br />
- Most Interesting: The Craft that downed the ship was a recently finished Firestorm (first human-alien hybrid craft I had built, I know this is lame for that date. Limited myself on 25 Scientists to improve the challenge) equipped with twin plasma. I had it built and equipped in Antarctica and then transferred to Europe. This base had no Elerium, a fact that enabled me to use the infinite fuel exploit which was in effect when downing the UFO. My craft was only slightly damaged when doing so. The battleship was the first target assigned to the craft, it came directly from my base. <br />
<br />
- When shot down, the UFO was not targetted by any other craft.<br />
<br />
- I had not lost or sold a single craft to that point.<br />
<br />
- When sending a squad to the crash site the game didn't crash but generated a farm land ground combat terrain.<br />
<br />
- I was not able to reproduce the bug from the savegame dated 2 hours before downing the UFO<br />
<br />
Well guys, any intelligent guesses? I still have the savegames (before and after downing)! If you want to have a look, write here.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 5th 2007)<br />
----<br />
: Well I'm sure you know about crash sites that are near land can sometimes actually be on water, so I'm going to assume that this site is well far away from any land mass. Could it be a weird entry in GEODATA\WORLD.DAT that has a land mass out in the ocean? Also are you sure the game didn't crash? Sometimes when it does it will load the previous mission (and usually 90% are at farm terrain). Are you sure it generated a new map and not load the last one?<br />
:No real guesses but maybe some starting points to look at. I've probably stated some obvious situations you know about and have accounted for, but it never hurts to double check :D<br />
- [[User:Pi Masta|Pi Masta]] 14:23, 5 April 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Inconsistencies in MCing Cyberdiscs and Sectopods ==<br />
<br />
I experienced, that when MCing one quadrant of a large terror unit any action it does only affects this quadrant (especially use of time units). That means, when TUs are up for one part, MC another one and continue firing. This however does not work out when moving the unit while it is not under complete control. The TUs used up by the resulting reaction fire from the rest of the unit is also deducted from the TUs "your" part has left (making it impossible for the controlled parts to return fire). This however only happens under reaction fire, not if "your" part fires on it's own. I don't know if this comes up when uncontrolled parts shoot by themselves in the alien turn, since this is hard to find out.<br />
<br />
: That's because large units literally are made up of four separate units. They only share the same set of general stats (in unitref.dat). Unfortunately the 'under mind control flag' is unique to the four units, not the shared stats! So you in effect have multiple units under different control sharing the same stats. So if you move and it results in a reaction from the unit, it will spend the TUs you're using. <br />
: Successful mind control automatically fills up the unit's TUs, so each mind controlled sector gets to move or attack again until there are no more sectors to mind control. Useful way of turning reapers into long range scouts! <br />
: In TFTD, they attempted to fix this bug, but in fact made it much-much worse! The only way to mind control the unit properly is to control the upper left quadrant. Only! Any other quadrant will result in a partial (clockwise) control, and you may gain control of units other than that unit, or may even get into situations where you gain permanent 'partial control' of a large unit you haven't even sited. Wackiness all around! <br />
<br />
:- [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Facility Dismantle Bug ==<br />
<br />
Boba: I've never experienced this bug myself in all my games in the Collectors Edition. It may very well vary from computer to computer. <br />
<br />
-[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
:I, however, have experienced it. I lost an entire month's worth of playtime because I couldn't solve it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]]<br />
<br />
::Anyone, any ideas on why it might vary from PC to PC? -[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]<br />
<br />
:::I'd check other factors before blaming a given system. Assuming no mods are being used the most obvious is the order in which you initiated the construction of the modules. Then we've got which one was due to be completed first, and I'm sure there's a few other things to test out. Usually, a player won't cancel in-progress modules on a regular basis, so you wouldn't expect this bug to turn up often. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Easy way to reproduce: build 2 General Stores. Now delete the "second one" (see offset 16-39 in [[BASE.DAT]] for the order). Wait for the first one to complete. It'll crash immediately after the "end of construction" dialog. A fix is available [[User:Seb76#Bug_Fixes | here]]. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 15:52, 22 July 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Manufacturing Limit Bug ==<br />
<br />
Unfortunately, Mike, no you did not get it correct. It is the raw number of hours needed to complete the project, not the projected hours. I discussed this on the X-Com Forums a few months back at the following link: http://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=242027760&st=0&#entry164411<br />
<br />
I did tests at the time in regard to the accuracy of the data given there, but I've lost the results. I'll quickly redo the tests in the next hour or so. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:00, 8 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Tests complete. The breakpoints for every item were exactly where I predicted, regardless of number of engineers assigned. (I ran up a huge queue of items at my dedicated factory base on an old game, and then assigned whatever engineers would fit onto one project at a time, canceling projects as data was confirmed. This is only semi-random, but it serves our purposes.) I did run into a single issue, though. It appears that despite having 5 empty hangars at a (different!) base, the workshop there could not queue up more than 3 of any one craft at a time, thus making this bug impossible to replicate with the Firestorm or Lightning, as you must be producing more than three for the bug to occur. However, it still works with the Avenger. Later, I shall see about constructing a dedicated Hangar base with 7 hangars in order to attempt to replicate the bug. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:33, 8 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Sounds great, Arrow. Why not post a simple example that shows how the problem works. As in, "with 1 Eng and 2 Avengers you might think X, but no, it's Y". And please delete my example. And it's a fine pleasure to meet you! Cool - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]<br />
<br />
:::When you say the usual resources are used by the "lost" resources, that includes cash, right? It sounds like if you're willing to foot the extra bill [[Buying/Selling/Transferring#Manufacturable_Prices|money/component-wise]], this could be used to build Avengers slightly faster then normal.<br />
<br />
::: The usual time is 34000 hours. Double that and subtract 65535 and you're left with a paltry 2465 hours. Even a single workshop squad of 10 engineers will pull that off in a little over ten days. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Sadly, this exploit doesn't work, because the high bit is stored SOMEWHERE. I lack a hex reader and have no code reading skills to speak of, so I'm a bit limited here. If you set up a Workshop as you described, the game would take all the time for 2 Avengers, all the resources for the same, but in the end only produce 1 Avenger. Meanwhile, I'll run more tests on the resources thing. I could swear it consumes the resources, but I'll double check.<br />
<br />
:::::There is no need to store the high bits if the actual completion condition (assuming adequate money) is "number made is number ordered", which wouldn't reference the hours remaining at all. - [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 01:49, 9 Oct 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::::Tests done; I was unable to replicate the 'disappearing item' trick,(Which I didn't test for last night) even with Avengers! It appears I was wrong; this still counts as a bug, though, because the wraparound is a problem.<br />
<br />
::::Ironic that so much of this discussion centers around Avengers, because that's where I discovered this in the first place! [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:48, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I'm revisiting XCOM and was working on [[Manufacturing Profitability]]... Arrow, can you (or anyone else) say a little bit more on the Known Bugs page about this [[Known_Bugs#Manufacturing_Limit_Bug]]? It's not clear to me exactly what the bug does, except that it understates hours. Is that all?... does it still take the (non-buggy) amount of time, still use all the same resources, still make the same number, etc.? It sounds like it could be a drastic bug - or is it only a very superficial one, a display bug for the hours? It sounds like you're leaning toward this latter.<br />
<br />
Also on a semi-related note... I could swear I saw much more detailed info on the [[Known_Bugs#Facility_Maintenance_Costs]] issue... IIRC, the incorrect amount that's charged for maintenance, depends on exactly where a facility is in the base. IOW, different "rows" of the base cost different amounts. Could somebody provide a link there, and/or flesh the bug out better?<br />
<br />
Thanks! - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 11:22, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I've actually seen the bug work both ways, but I've only been able to actually replicate the more superficial version of the bug. So the bug report up is about a superficial bug that drastically understates production time. If you wish to make this clearer, you have my blessings. As well, that 'different charging based on location' is dealt with here: http://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Base_Facilities ; however, the table has been broken with the Wikiupgrade, and I lack sufficient knowledge of HTML table code to fix it. But it should be of use to you. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 11:26, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Cool, I fixed [[Talk:Base Facilities]] but also re-organized and expanded [[Base Facilities]] so that it includes that bug in detail, as per Talk... this is an important issue that should be up front. I see that there's a separate [[Maintenance costs]] page, but I can't see having something so important (the maintenance bug explanation) all on its own page (which makes for a rather short page) rather than together with all the rest of the base facility info. If others agree (or don't care), I'll move anything remaining on Maintenance Costs to the Base Facilities page, then delete Maintenance Costs and re-route links. And if somebody does care, then please move my new section to Maintenance Costs, and move all the links, etc. Oh also I put in more words on your Manufacturing Limit Bug - how does it look? - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 16:37, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Looks pretty good, although it'll wrap fully; if you ask for 120000 hours, it won't be displaying 'almost no' time. The way I discovered it was when building two Avengers; I ordered two, paid for two, waited for two...and got one. But as said, haven't managed to repeat it, so until I do, we'll leave it like that. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I just revised and put in your specific example, because it's certainly possible some of us die-hard players will order up more than 1 Avenger at a time - and it's guaranteed it'd be a pain if 1 of them disappeared, laugh. I wasn't sure how concrete you were on that example but now I hear you say, you are sure it happened at least once. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 18:33, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I have a question concerning the manufacturing "bug" which eats a craft in production due to wrap-over of the byte. Arrow (or whoever did the test), did you have a large quantity of craft already built at your bases? If so, I think this bug has more to deal with clogging up [[CRAFT.DAT]]. See, that file has a limit of 50 entries. Each craft takes up one record and each base you have built also consumes one spot. 8 bases allows 42 craft to be housed, while 6 bases allow 44. If you try to buy or manufacture craft once the file is full, nothing shows up in the game even if you have hangar space available. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 19:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Huh, I never knew that. I don't see it listed on the Bugs page... I'll stick it in there. I've never approached that number, but some folks might. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 19:07, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I was able to continue building other Avengers after that project, and they appeared correctly, so I do not believe that is the issue. In any event, I have a very bad case of 'archivism' and probably still have the save game and the CRAFT.DAT file around on my system; in fact, I think I was playing it a few days ago. I can see if I can find it and upload it; it created a 'hole' in the Avenger fleet numbers, where Avenger's x and x+2 were built, but x+1 was not. I'll look for it tonight and tomorrow and upload it to the wiki if I find it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:10, 8 October 2007 (PDT) EDIT: I found the file; I have 28 Avengers and 1 Skyranger in my employ. All Avenger numbers EXCEPT #2(Avenger-2) are accounted for, and I have not sacked or lost any Avengers. So this is where the hole and 'eaten' Avenger is. If anyone wants the CRAFT.DAT file from this game, I'd be happy to forward it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:20, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Sure, send it my way and I'll take a look at it. (Might as well send me the whole saved game as I may want to look at the other files too). I have tried to recreate this bug by manufacturing 1, 2 and 3 Avengers at a clip but all of them always show up. Don't know what else I could do to get this problem to crop up. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:32, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:File emailed. On the side, I've tried the same thing, and never been able to repeat the bug. It's been months since the first discovery, so I can't recall whether it was the first or the second Avenger that didn't appear. So maybe it was just a fluke. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:57, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Unconscious Enemy in Equipment Screen ==<br />
<br />
The following happened to me repeatedly over the last few days.<br />
<br />
In the last tactical Mission a live alien has been captured. When now beginning an UFO crash recovery mission this type of alien (same race and rank) appears in the equipment screen before the mission starts, meaning I can give it to any of my soldiers.<br />
If I do so I can store the alien in the skyranger for the duration of the mission and, if it gains consciousness, kill or stun it at the end of it. A pile of equipment without a corpse will be in the UFO, indicating that the stunned alien is not some kind of duplicate but instead has been taken from the aliens of this mission. This is supported by the fact that in those missions the maximum number of crew members has not been surpassed.<br />
If I do not do so the Alien will be placed in the crashed UFO. Whether it is unconscious or not I do not know, but the fact that it is completely disarmed when encountered in the battle suggests that it is.<br />
<br />
So far it seems the following is necessary for the bug to occur:<br />
# An alien has to be captured alive in the last tactical combat<br />
# It has to be of the same race and rank as one of the aliens in the new tactical combat<br />
<br />
So far this only worked...:<br />
# If the new tactical combat was an UFO crash recovery of a medium scout.<br />
# For floaters and mutons<br />
# For soldiers and navigators<br />
# If the alien in the last mission was stunned by normal weapon fire (although I do not think this is important) and not picked up (again, not likely to be important) or destroyed (which would mean it has to be actually captured)<br />
<br />
It seems NOT to depend on the following:<br />
# The type of the last mission (were, so far: Ground assault battleship, crash recovery large scout, base defense)<br />
# Which squad or vessel was involved capturing the alien<br />
# Where it is locked up<br />
# If it has been transferred since capture or not<br />
<br />
Would be interesting to know:<br />
# What happens if the alien in the inventory screen is the only survivor<br />
# If the alien in the invenory screen is one of the aliens randomly killed in the crash or not (it is likely to be one of the killed aliens, so far the equipment piles were always within the UFO)<br />
# If this is not limited on crashed medium scouts: Does this work with terror units? What about large ones?<br />
<br />
Maybe this is related to the proximity grenade bug (transfer of item properties to next tactical combat).<br />
<br />
Additionally, in one of those mission a part of the terrain was not generated correctly. It was in farm terrain (The house on the right square, or north east square, in [[Image:Terrain-cult.gif|this pic]]). The outer wall right to the right window of the southern wall (1st Floor) was missing. Directly outside of the hole was a floor tile. I could walk a soldier through the wall, but he fell right through the tile. Dunno if this has to do with the stunned alien bug.<br />
<br />
Version is collectors edition (the one from abandonia.com).<br />
<br />
----------------<br />
<br />
When a mission starts, the GeoScape engine generates the unit and object tables (in MissDat's [[OBPOSREF.DAT]], [[UNIPOS.DAT]], and [[UNIREF.DAT]]) before "shutting down". The Tactical engine then generates the maps, places the aliens on it, and blows up the UFO (if need be). Whether or not map generation and the subsequent events happen before you equip your soldiers I don't yet know.<br />
<br />
The test would be to check the aforementioned files to see if they contain an unconcious alien, and/or the body.<br />
<br />
Note that you can't see the bodies of large units on the ground (they count as four seperate objects covering four seperate tiles, so allowing the user to pick one up would essentially let you rip them apart).<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 06:35, 5 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----------------<br />
<br />
I honestly have no idea of how all those files work. But I still have a savegame in battlescape that is in one of those missions. So if anyone wants to have a look at those files...<br />
<br />
I forgot to mention: I reloaded a geoscape savegame shortly before the battle to recreate the bug, but it seems that reloading in geoscape before the buggy battle eliminates the bug. I guess his should narrow down the possible reasons...<br />
<br />
--------<br />
<br />
Next time it happens, backup the aforementioned files before you start another mission. I'm afraid a savegame wouldn't be of much help.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 00:54, 7 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Soldiers moved to outside of combat screen ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I've got a DOS version of UFO:EU, and I've encountered a bug in the tactical combat. Sometimes (rarely) a X-COM soldier changes its location on the map on player's turn start and is placed on outside of the map, one tile north from the (north) border of the field. AFAIR the unit is then selectable (you get the flashing highlight when cursor is above), but is stuck outside of the field. Has anybody encountered this bug? It seems to happen randomly, but more frequently during the terror missions and on early turns (so maybe it's caused by high number of player/alien/civilian units?). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 08:16, 3 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I've never encountered this bug in CE of UFO. Presuming AFAIR means "As Far As I Recall," what exactly was the soldier doing? Any equipment data, location, or stat info might help us pin it down. Were afflicted soldiers always carrying a specific equipment set or weapon? Where were they on the map before they got moved? Did they get bumped a few spaces, or teleported halfway across the Battlescape? Does it happen more often on a specific difficulty?(Your theory would suggest this would happen most commonly on Superhuman) Against a certain type of alien? Best of all, if you can recreate the situation in a game, save the game and then you could upload the save file to the forums or this wiki, and the rest of us could take a look for ourselves and the code divers could root around for the cause. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:03, 3 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: I've had this happen to me several times in UFO and TFTD. I don't know if it's specific to the Dos version or if it can happen in the CE as well. Sometimes the soldier ends up beyond the boundary of the map right at the start of the mission, at other times it happens after you load a game. This game is glitchy, which is the source for so many of its bugs, so your soldier's coordinates are probably getting corrupted to the point where they are -1 on either the X or Y axis of the maps's normal boundaries. For me it's commonly along the top edge of the map. I don't ever recall it happening mid-mission, only at the start or after a load. I cannot faithfully say whether it happened with or without XComutil, but that could be one of the possibly many causes for this. - [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
:: I don't play UFO often, so I rely on just several campaigns played. This happens rarely (I've encountered this bug twice in my last campaign with ~80 missions played), but if you haven't seen this happen then it probably doesn't show up in the CE edition. In my experience the soldier is moved always beyond the north/top map border. I think (but I'm not sure) that this affects the first soldier from the team more commonly than others (or maybe even exclusevily?). The equipment/armor carried is probably not relevant, since the units moved this way don't have any special stuff, and this bug shows up on different stages of the gameplay (ie. sometimes when you have ordinary rifles, sometimes when all your units got heavy plasmas and power suits). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 04:12, 4 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
'''MY ramblings have been moved to my discussion page''' [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]<br />
<br />
==Great Circle Route==<br />
<br />
Should we have the Great Circle Route bug noted on this page at all? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 20:33, 6 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: what is the great circle route? [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 07:56, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Pick two points on a globe, then hold a thread or string taut at those two points. That practically minimizes the length of the thread/string on the globe. You're now looking at a great circle arc (or route), the shortest distance between two points on a globe. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 11:15 March 2009 (CDT)<br />
<br />
: Just as a line is the shortest distance between 2 points on a flat plane, a great circle is the shortest distance between 2 points on the surface of a sphere. The bug, by the way, is that aircraft in the game ''don't'' follow this shortest, "great circle" route. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:38, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: What a grand sounding name, for something so simple, lol. ... I thought you were talking about when you tell your soldiers to go from point A to point B, and for some reason they figure that Zone A and Zone B are really far apart, despite actually being side by side. (I shot a hole through a wall, clicked to walk to the other side, and my idiot soldier walked one big circle... to use the door! And got ambushed and killed by an alien. ... dum dum DUMB DUMB.)<br />
:: Even the more modern games have problems with their pathfinding algorythms. Admittedly, games like Baldur's Gate had to do it in realtime.<br />
:: On a semi-related note, I remember this guy called E-man, he was chasing a guided laser beam that was going to kill his girl, around the world, but he couldn't outrun it since he couldn't break the speed of light, only equal it by changing into a Laser himself. So... inspiration! He turned into a very powerful laser, and made a shortcut THROUGH THE EARTH... the straight line beats the great circle route, lol.<br />
:: Thanks for the reply guys [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:56, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Bug not listed: Missing soldiers during base defense==<br />
<br />
I encountered an interesting bug concerning base defense missions:<br />
My base got attacked while about 30 soldiers and 10 HWPs were present. The usual equipment assignment screen was skipped and the mission started instantly with only the HWPs spawned at the map. Not even a single soldier bothered to show up... *sigh*<br />
Although this turned out to be in my favor (you should have seen the puzzled Ethereals trying to panic my tanks) I´d like to avoid this bug if possible. I was able to reproduce this bug several times and with different bases. <br />
Can anyone explain this bug and/or tell me how to avoid it?<br />
<br />
Game version: Collectors edition. - [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
Well, ideally, we need to know what your base's construction was to be sure of this, but I think the most likely circumstance is that the HWPs took up all the spawn points. HWPs have maximum priority for spawning(followed by Soldiers, and then Aliens), so if you have enough of them garrisoning a base, it's entirely possible that soldiers and aliens won't spawn. However, this doesn't explain why the soldiers didn't start stealing the Alien spawn points...in any event, you might want to take the save game file, zip it up, and get ready to email it. I'm sure [[User:Zombie|Zombie]] would be quite interested. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:28, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
It's not the spawn points, it's a [[UNITPOS.DAT]] limitation. A maximum of forty records (out of the total of eighty) are allocated for your units, and tanks (which take up four records each) get first pick. Having ten tanks means there's no room left for anything else.<br />
<br />
Ditch one HWP and you should see four units take it's place. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 16:42, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
I´ll try with a decreasing number of tanks and report the results. As I wrote above having only HWPs isn´t too bad dependent on what enemy is attacking. [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
This should be mentioned in the [[ExploitsE#Base Defence Mission Spawning Issues]] section. The Bugs/Exploits really need to be sorted and consolidated. - [[User:NinthRank|NinthRank]] 16:57, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
The limitation to 40 records seems to be the case; each tank I dumped got replaced by four soldiers. <br />
So this can be used to effectively manage unit combination. Thanks for the quick replies! [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
==Bug not listed: Ufo Gold (Windows Vers. abandonia.com) crashing when plasma defense is finished==<br />
<br />
I recordnized this bug a few times now. (with hacked AND unhacked game)<br />
If i place a plasma defense in 7 bases at the same Time and they are finished at the same Time, the game crashes sometimes.<br />
In hacked game, it seems to crash even more when Alien containment is finished, plasma defense, shield defense...etc.<br />
couldnt find it here...greetz<br />
<br />
: I somehow doubt the sourcing is the issue. [You may want to fund the next XCOM series game with a Take2 re-release of UFO :)] More generally: the game only reports the construction of a given type of facility <b>once</b>, no matter how many bases it completes at simultaneously. I've only tested this <i>in vivo</i> with three-of-a-kind at once across six bases, however. It does seem reasonable that some sort of counter of undisplayed completions would "overflow" (attaining crash). -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 10:05, Feb. 28 2008 CST<br />
<br />
::I've encountered this bug myself with General Stores, actually, not just Plasma Defense(which I never build). EDIT: Some quick tests seem to show that there's a chance the game will crash any time two base facilities are done at the same time, regardless of whether they're in the same base or not or if they're the same facility.(although it seems to happen MUCH more in the event they're in different bases.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:13, 28 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested ==<br />
<br />
Just to note that I have positively tested and replicated the bugs listed under the new(ish) section [[Known Bugs#Soldier Recruiting Bugs|Soldier Recruiting Bugs]]. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:08, 19 March 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Floater Medic Bug==<br />
<br />
I have not thus far encountered the Floater Medic Bug; in fact, Floater Medics are often used to fill up my Rogue Gallery with interrogations. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:50, 24 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Strange, it would always occur in my version. I don't remember where I got it from, but I<br />
know it was a download from the internet. Using the XCom Hack v2.5, I viewed the alien in<br />
the Alien Containment edit. I now have Type (race):____, and a Rank: Soldier for the <br />
Floater Medic. It might just be corruption, but I do not have the resources to look into<br />
it. [[User:Muton commander|Muton commander]] 19:24, 12 May 2008 (Pacific Time Zone)<br />
<br />
I've never encountered it either. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 07:47, 23 July 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Strength Overflow==<br />
<br />
During one of my games with TFTD I noticed a really annoying thing happen during battles.<br />
As my troops rose up the 'stat.' ladder they got better and better (as you'd expect), until they hit about 50 strentgh and completely lost the ability to throw anything.<br />
Even trying to throw something tiny like a grenade or flare into the adjacent tile resulted in the 'Out of Range' message being displayed.<br />
<br />
Anyone come across this before?<br />
This was in TFTD CE.<br />
[[User:Tifi|Tifi]] 07:55, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:This is fairly well documented. The pathfinding algorithm for throwing objects will balk if anything is in the way of the throw and refuse to allow you to throw. What's happening is that your soldiers have become so strong that their throws are intercepting the 'ceiling' of the Battlescape(the top of L3), and as such the game thinks that the throw is blocked(because in order for the throw to complete, the object would have to be tossed up to the nonexistant L4). There's two ways around this:<br />
<br />
:The Normal Way: Try shorter throws, throwing from lower heights, or throwing while kneeling. Beyond that, possibly get some new troops.<br />
<br />
:The Sneaky Way: Manually edit the Strength scores of your soldiers in [[SOLDIER.DAT]] so that they're back to a usable strength level. If you set "Initial Strength" (offset 46 decimal or 2E hex) to 0 and "Strength Improvement" (offset 57 decimal or 39 hex) to a value of 50, you can permanently lock the soldiers at 50 strength. (You can lock them higher than that if you so choose, but not lower.<br />
<br />
:Other than this, there's no workarounds I can think of offhand. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 08:10, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: There's normally no problem with the max level of 70 in open settings. However TFTD has a lot of low ceilings such as in the shipping lane missions and colonies, and the lower ceilings impairs your throwing quite a bit. In addition to shorter throws/kneeling, try moving out from under any overhangs if there is one just above you. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 12:33, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Bug not listed: Sticking your head through the ceiling ==<br />
This is something I just discovered: When you step on a small object inside of a building your soldier sticks his/her head through the ceiling and can see what's upstairs. You can even see the soldiers head coming out of the floor and that soldiers can shoot aliens upstairs. When I did this the alien I saw/shot was facing the other way, but I guess you could get shot if the alien was facing you. [[User:RedNifre|RedNifre]] 17:34, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:That's not listed under "Bugs" because it's covered under "Exploits", right here: [[Exploiting_Collison_Detection#See_Through_A_Ceiling]] [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:26, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: I don't know if it was ever covered anywhere, but there's this neat trick that might sound similar to the walk-through-'wall object'-wall trick except that it involves your unit climbing slopes. They'll appear as though they've gone up a level, but are actually not on that level. They only visually appear to be there, but are really still on the bottom level. <br />
<br />
:: It happens a lot when walking up the desert or forest slopes. I think the trick involves standing on ground level, and then ordering the unit to 'move' into the hill rather than setting the waypoint while on level 1. The soldier will move up the slope and perhaps stop on the slope or even reach the top of the slope, but will still appear when you're only viewing the ground map layer. The soldier is really still on the ground level, but will have elevation offset. <br />
<br />
:: One really interesting way of using this trick is in the mountain region. If you can find a cliff face and a low hill nearby, you can literally have your soldier scale the cliff by standing the soldier on the hill, and then walking towards the cliff. It's ridiculous, but your soldier never quite reaches the top of the cliff tiles, so ends up walking up a slope. <br />
<br />
:: On a side note, standing at the top of the ramp of the Skyranger is the same as standing on ground level - you're only offset a bit. This means that smoke on level 1 and the sides of the Skyranger will not provide protection when you're at the top of the ramp. <br />
<br />
:: On another related note in relation: In TFTD (doesn't happen a lot in UFO), you might find it difficult to toss grenades onto underwater slopes. To remedy this, raise the level up by one. It might look like you're tossing at air(and you are), but it'll get the grenade where you want it. Odd, but true. I must remember to put this in the grenade explanation section. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:11, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Base Defence bug that causes a crash? ==<br />
<br />
Does anyone know about a bug in a base defence mission that causes the game to crash? The game keeps crashing on the 4th or 5th alien turn.<br />
<br />
:I've encountered that myself, but it should be noted that overall, X-COM is not the most stable game and is prone to crashing often at anytime. The differences between the hardware it was designed for and the hardware we're running it on cannot be helping matters at all; it's really a small miracle it even runs without an emulator in the first place(I've got games from 1999 that will bluescreen my machine instantly). As such, I'm not sure it's worth noting as a bug, since it's a 'game feature'(albeit a detrimental one). In any case, what're you doing letting the aliens attack you anyways? ;) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:33, 18 July 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Sources for a DOS4GW transplant ==<br />
<br />
I was specifically thinking of the LucasArts Dark Forces demo, but I half-recall the actual source I used when testing that ~1999 was Id's DOOM. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 16:03, 7 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Phantom Carried Casualty ==<br />
<br />
You are carrying an unconscious soldier in one hand, and the soldier dies of his/her wounds. The dead soldier remains visible on the "left hand / right hand object" battlescape display, but is no longer visible in the inventory display. The problem can be fixed by moving another object into the same hand. <br />
<br />
I've seen this bug with UFO Extender by [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] - possibly might be something to do with his manipulation of the inventory screen, rather than a general bug. I believe I've also seen this with other objects that were being carried in the hands, disappearing from the Inventory screen, but I'm not sure. I don't think it's an item limit bug, as XcomUtil shows 40 item slots free. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:58, 21 September 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Civilians As Enemies to MC'd Aliens ==<br />
<br />
I ran across this issue a few times and just wondered if you guys experienced this. I MC'd a part of a Reaper (I always do the lower left for large aliens) on a Terror Site, then moved it a few squares. It suddenly stopped dead in it's tracks and then the alien spotted indicator increased by 1. When I clicked on the indicator to see where the enemy unit was, it brought me to L2 of the large apartment complex. However, nothing was there. When I sent a Flying-Suited soldier up there to peek in the window (eeek! A peeping tom!) he saw a female civilian standing there. This type of problem has happened numerous times to me so it's not a once-off thing. Maybe it's a LOS issue? Or maybe an alien indicator problem? Or a combination of the two? Don't know, but I'm curious if you guys have seen it. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 23:40, 19 December 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:There are a lot of major issues with MC'ing 4 square aliens. One of them being that you could accidentally MC an alien far off in the corner of the map, IIRC? Anyhow, maybe you should have tried MC'ing all 4 squares of the reaper and see if that changed things. -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]<br />
<br />
The long-range MC of other aliens when Mind-Controlling large aliens is only present in Terror From The Deep, due to a workaround to try and resolve the earlier bugs(and exploits) associated with controlling one square of a large unit at the time. In TFTD, successfully MC'ing part of a Large unit will also grant you control of the next three units in UNITPOS.DAT, in order. If you didn't MC the upper left portion of the large unit(the first UNITPOS entry for any large unit), you can potentially wind up in control of other aliens. So this doesn't apply to UFO. As for Zombie's issue, never seen it. And finally...Jasonred, on Talk pages, please indent your statement with colons so it differentiates from other people's comments, and sign your posts with 4 ~'s, like I will now do. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:42, 19 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
==Elerium Base Bug==<br />
<br />
Jasonred: This bug has long since been known about. Elerium units on the Battlescape can be picked up by shooting away the power source; this one item counts as 50 units, and as such ANY elerium item spawned on any Battlescape counts as 50 Elerium. This issue with your own Elerium spawning as collectable loot in a Base Defense mission only occurs in older DOS versions, and is at the whim of the 80 item limit. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:55, 18 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Base defense does not seem to follow the 80 item limit in that DOS version. There are a lot of bugs that have long been known about. However this one was not included in the ufopedia for some reason.<br />
:Also, the main thing about this bug is that it does not potentially double your elerium stores. It potentially multiplies them 50 times.<br />
:... First time this happened to me, I was pretty flabbergasted. Here I was being conservative with my limited Elerium, refraining from blowing up UFOs when possible, when I perform a base defense and gain 3000 Elerium from it. Holy spit. -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]<br />
<br />
Alright, my error. Thanks for clarifying. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:42, 19 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
==HWP Fusion Bomb and SWS PWT Displacer Ammo Manufacturing Cost Bug==<br />
<br />
At a cost of $15000, 400 Tech hours, 5 Zrbite, and 8 Aqua Plastics, this is the exact same cost as the HWP Fusion Bomb from X-COM EU, converted over to the equivalent TFTD resources. As such, it shouldn't be counted as a bug, since it is clearly what Mythos intended. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 09:55, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Hmm, in that case maybe it should be treated as a generic game engine issue and not a TFTD specific issue - but I still think it's a design error. Can you think of any logical reason why the SWS/HWP version of the ammo should be more expensive (in cost and in materials) than both the craft ammo and the (more powerful) personal ammo? It makes no logical sense. Hence I think it's a design error. Nothing can be inferred from the fact it's unchanged from XCOM-EU, that doesn't imply any deliberate decision. It could just be the replication of an original error in XCOM-EU. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 11:17, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: I can think of a logical reason to justify this: X-Com doesn't understand the technology as well as the aliens do (which is obvious, given the length of time each side has known the tech). Handheld Blaster/Blaster Bombs are just a copy of the alien design and therefor relatively cheap and efficient, but that can't be mounted on a turret. So X-Com has to make a new design, and they obviously didn't do that good a job as the aliens would have done. This explains Tank/Plasma being weaker than Heavy Plasma too. (Why is FBL Craft ammo cheaper than the tank ammo though? Maybe X-Com gave up on/simplified the guidance system and made it just a "dumb" cannon shell/torpedo instead which doesn't have multiple waypoints? Or maybe they just did a better job there?). [[User:Cesium|Cesium]] 04:07, 25 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Whilst we discuss it, I'll park my original text in here:<br />
<br />
* ''Displacer/PWT ammo cost bug - at over $100,000 total cost per round, the ammunition for this SWS weapon is far more expensive to manufacture (both in money and rare materials) than the equivalent ammo for the Aquanaut-carried Disruptor Pulse Launcher, or the craft-based Pulse Wave Torpedo, despite being less powerful than either. This would seem to be a design mistake.''<br />
<br />
See Also [[Talk:Displacer/PWT]]<br />
<br />
:: I don't like the higher cost either, but I think it's a tradeoff of expense and quality for the convenience of portability. Sort of like an MP3 player to the gramophone... or maybe that's not a good comparison. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 13:43, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
A better comparison might be a desktop computer to a laptop. As a general rule, laptops are more expensive, but a similarly priced desktop gives you more power. Desktops are cheaper and offer power, laptops are more expensive and offer portability(though the gap is rapidly narrowing). [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:49, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:I think those are good analogies. But they don't apply in this case. To continue your analogies: We are paying mainframe prices for a clunky desktop that has only laptop processing power, and we're buying a mainframe for desktop prices. The vehicle version ("desktop") - is ''less'' portable and ''less'' powerful than the personal version (DPL = "laptop"), ''less'' capable than the craft version ("mainframe") - and costs ''more'' than either of the others in total cash and in materials. In particular, it makes no sense that the small missiles on the SWS use up ''more'' of both Zrbite and Aqua Plastics than the Craft version. Do we really think it's logical that a tactical battlefield round, less powerful than its man-carried equivalent, takes more explosive and structural material to produce than both the more powerful man-carried version and also more than the air-to-air round that has 60km range and can take down a major alien combat craft? There is a clearly perverse bang-per-buck here, on every measure. My sincere belief is that this was an original mistake in the XCOM-EU engine that got copied into TFTD as well. The craft round should have the higher base price, but the material requirements that are currently assigned to the SWS/HWP round. It's debatable whether the SWS/HWP rounds should be more expensive than the man-carried rounds. But what I don't think is debatable is that is not logical for the SWS/HWP rounds to be more expensive than the craft rounds. It's clearly a mistake. Even in game balance terms, the only thing the HWP/SWS rounds have going for them is conserving "80-Item Limit" space, which I severely doubt was ever a game design consideration since it's just an awkward programming compromise. Any advantage inherent in the HWP/SWS is already reflected in the very high platform cost - there is no need to inflate the ammo costs as well. The bottom line is that a round for a (mini-)tank does not cost more, does not use more materials, than the same type of round for a long range anti-aircraft weapon that has much greater damage capacity and penetrating capacity. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:35, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
I'm going to add this to the bug list now. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 16:06, 25 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Still don't think this is a bug though. Just because it's more expensive to manufacture than the hand-held or craft-mounted ammo, it doesn't mean the stats are wrong. Perhaps the programmers wanted to balance the tactical portion of the game a little more by making the ammo cost more for tanks. It doesn't have to be logical to be intended. Now if you had proof which said that the ammo was supposed to cost less but the stats were wrong, then yes, I'd agree. So if you boil it all down it comes to a disparate logic issue, not a bug.--[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:31, 25 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
::I have to side with Zombie here. While the ammo may be disproportionately expensive, by the definition used on the rest of the page for bug, it doesn't fit. All the other bugs are errors in program logic or function or routines that are unintentional problems with the game, most of which are not warned of ahead of time. The ammo for the tank costs exactly what is listed and operates entirely as intended, whereas the rest of the bugs are not intended game features. Even if the numbers were entered wrong, that would be a data entry error, not a program bug. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:28, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:If it was a data entry error, I'd consider that a type of bug... assuming we had proof of the goof so to speak. LOL. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 00:49, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: It feels too specific an entry to be a data entry error. <br />
<br />
:: I'm reminded of the high explosive. I know, I know - it's not an exact parallel to the FBL issue. A High Explosive is practically two grenades. Double weight, double bulk. Slightly above two times the damage. However, it costs five times the price of a standard grenade. Even though you're paying more for not-as-much, I don't think that could be considered a bug. A rip off, yes, but not a bug. <br />
<br />
:: Here's a thought: Think about the immediate benefits each of the two controversial ammo types give back to you. Aircraft ammo = activity points. Tank ammo = loot. Yes, I know that aircraft ammo also generate crash sites, but you still have the ground combat to contend with. <br />
<br />
:: One other thought: With careful management of your ammo, you'll probably never spend any elerium on the handheld version's ammo. Could it be the handheld that's really at issue here rather than the others? In the end I feel that it doesn't really matter. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:38, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I'm with Zombie that a data entry error is a bug (we have other examples), but also agree some proof is probably needed. And I agree with NKF that in the scheme of things, it doesn't really matter much. I don't think the HE pack is a good comparison (though the HE pack should be heavier) as it's reasonable to pay disprortionately more to get additional power at the same tech level. The fusion weapons are a case of paying more to actually get ''less'' power. I am not bothered by the handheld vs vehicle balance, not least because the game generally makes handheld weapons better than their vehicle equivalents, so I can accept that as an across-the-board design decision. <br />
<br />
: I can also see a game balance argument ''if'' we believe that Fusion Tank ammo is more of an overall game-winning weapon than craft Fusion Bombs. But I'm not sure I agree with that statement. And even if it's true, and there's a game balance argument (in which case it would apply equally to handheld Fusion launchers), it's still illogical. The less powerful, battlefield warhead should not cost massively more in exotic materials than the much more powerful air to air warhead that brings down Battleships. I agree though that just because it's illogical does not prove it's a bug (i.e. unintended). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 07:48, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
Ok we more or less seem to be in agreement that this isn't a bug, but it is very confusing/illogical. Maybe we can shift the "bug" text from the article page and roll that into the [[Hovertank/Launcher]] and [[Displacer /P. W. T.]] pages now. Feel free to combine any text from the discussion above if necessary. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 09:22, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Unless we can ''prove'' it's a data entry error (unlikely), how about calling it an "Anomaly" instead of a bug? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 10:59, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
Looks like plain old game imbalance to me.<br />
The way I see it, Hovertank Plasma and Launcher were meant to be stronger. Much much stronger. Let's look at Tank Cannon, Launcher and Laser. The logic is that it's a tank mounted weapon, so the tank can carry a much larger and more powerful version of the same weapon, right?<br />
It's pretty stupid that a Hovertank Plasma is weaker than the Heavy Plasma... you could just mount a Heavy Plasma on a Hovertank and get them exactly equal. In fact, I suspect that the hovertanks were ALSO meant to have more powerful weapons than the man-portable versions.<br />
Unfortunatly, the game designers then realised that this made the hovertanks far too powerful. So... the programmers nerfed the power of the hovertank weapons. BUT they forgot to lower the ammo costs. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 11:20, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Well you are opening up a much larger issue there. The Fusion weapons are an anomaly, an inconsistency. But handheld weapons are more powerful than equivalent vehicle weapons across the board, consistently. So that looks like a deliberate design decision, not a mistake. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:33, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: There are two exceptions to the rule: Tank/Cannon: 60AP vs. Heavy Cannon 56AP. Tank/Laser: 110 Laser vs. Heavy Laser: 85 Laser. The hovertank\plasma only differs by a measly 5 (an extra 0 - 10 damage, which means a lot vs. UFO inner hull armour). I guess the trend here was to moderate the area effect tank strengths. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:22, 26 February 2009 (CST) <br />
<br />
I'd have to agree with you there Spike. This wasn't a mistake, however odd it may seem. It was a deliberate attempt to try and balance the game. Below is a table I created ages ago for my (now defunct) strategy guide detailing the HWP's and what handheld weapon corresponds to it. When you stick them side-by-side, it really becomes apparent that the programmers were trying to base the HWP weapons off the handheld weapons somewhat. The only thing that doesn't follow a nice and distinct scheme is the damage. That's what is the clincher. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:26, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br><br />
<table {{StdCenterTable}} class="sortable"><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left" width="150">Tank Type</th><th width="70">DAM</th><th width="80">Snap</th><th width="90">Aimed</th><th width="90">Aimed</th><th width="80">Snap</th><th width="70">DAM</th><th align="right" width="140">Handheld</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Tank/Cannon</th><td>60</td><td>60%</td><td>90%</td><td>90%</td><td>60%</td><td>56<sup>1</sup></td><th align="right">Heavy Cannon</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Rocket Launcher</th><td>85</td><td>55%</td><td>115%</td><td>115%</td><td>55%</td><td>87.5<sup>2</sup></td><th align="right">Rocket Launcher</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Laser Cannon</th><td>110</td><td>50%</td><td>85%</td><td>84%</td><td>50%</td><td>85</td><th align="right">Heavy Laser</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Hovertank/Plasma</th><td>110</td><td>85%</td><td>100%</td><td>100%</td><td>86%</td><td>80</td><th align="right">Plasma Rifle</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Hovertank/Launch</th><td>140</td><td>--%</td><td>120%</td><td>120%</td><td>--%</td><td>200</td><th align="right">Blaster Launcher</th></tr> <br />
</table><br />
<sup>1</sup>AP rounds.<br><br />
<sup>2</sup>Average between the Small and Large Rocket.<br />
<br />
<br />
: Hold up! Tank rounds do 60AP. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:22, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
So what's wrong? The table says 60 for the Tank/Cannon and 56 for HC-AP. Those are correct, no? --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 23:41, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Sorry, didn't realise it was two tables side by side (or rather mirrored). Eyes only noticed the left side of the table. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:53, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: If the Hovertank Launcher did 200 damage, or worse if the Hovertank Launcher did EVEN MORE damage than the Blaster Launcher... that would make them easily the most deadly things on the map. As it is, the hovertank launcher is already pretty overpowered, even with 140 power.<br />
<br />
== DOS4GW - What the heck is it? ==<br />
<br />
It's been ages since I had to remember this stuff, so those who remember clearer than I do, forgive me if my descriptions aren't accurate. Hopefully the general idea will come across. <br />
<br />
Back in ye olde days of computere gamynge - and where there were more E's to go around, memory handling was a tricky beast to handle. Computer memory is divided into several different categories. Conventional, extended and I think expanded. I might be jumbling the terminologies for the last two a bit. Doesn't matter - memory was just cut up into small segments. The two most common memory types to PCs at the time were pretty small but were readily available. The third one - the most expandable (aka the chip with its massive 4 Megs of RAM you just spent your whole month's allowance on!), wasn't as easy to get at. <br />
<br />
To get access to the higher memory that was available to the computer, special memory handlers had to be used. Drivers like HIMEM, emm386, etc were used. <br />
<br />
DOS4GW is one such handler that lets the game access the computer's available expanded memory. Lots of games that came out at the time use this. Doom, Duke Nukem 3d, Syndicate, Ultima Underworld, X-Com UFO/TFTD, etc. LOTS of games. Any time you ran a game from the dos console and you saw the Dos4GW message flash by briefly it would be assisted by it (well, it stayed on the screen for ages back when processors were slower!). <br />
<br />
It took the hassle out of memory handling and let the game access the available memory on the computer as one big flat block of memory to play with. <br />
<br />
So what was meant in the article was to simply replace the dos4gw.exe with a more up-to-date version from another game. I think the way to tell its version was just in the message that it displayed. You can just run the dos4gw.exe file in a console window. It'll give an error, but the message it shows will indicate its version. UFO 1.4 uses Dos4gw 1.95, for example. <br />
<br />
-[[User:NKF|NKF]] 01:22, 6 March 2009 (CST)<br />
:DOS4GW also switched the processor from 16bit to 32bit mode. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 13:58, 6 March 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
== Clipping ==<br />
I have a new bug. Its harmless. I have a savegame (EU CE - modified game) which has a sectoid within another sectoid. In the alien turn, one secturd walked off the roof and dropped down <s>onto</s> into another. (I guess there DNA is indentical afterall, so they 'become one' with the world). If you want the savegame (superhuman edited using UFOloader, UFO Mod v1, xcomed, Khor Chin WeapEdit v0.1) drop me a request on the my page somewhere. [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]] 01:40, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Not something many would encounter, but definitely something that can happen. Units can occupy the same physical space, but the game cannot display them all. It'll only draw one of them. Actually saw this effect happen back in the early days of XComutil when it gained the ability to manually add new aliens into a battlescape. It did this by slotting them into the same spaces occupied by existing aliens. Then the fun would happen when you saw a couple of Mutons suddenly walk out of a sectoid. Not sure how the game determines who gets hurt when struck by a bullet. May very well depend on the order they are stored in the unitpos.dat file. <br />
<br />
: There are a couple of ways you can replicate this in-game, but I can only provide theories on how you could do it. Such as shooting the ceiling above you and letting the unit drop through, or moving a tank off a ledge and getting its non-primary segments land directly on top of another unit. By the way, the rear end of tanks get stuck in walls if you attempt to move north or east off any ledges. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:18, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Ok, so as long as others know about this, then all is good. I had never seen it and was doing alot of head scratching until I shot the alien.<br />
<br />
== Berserk HWP crashes the game ==<br />
In the article page it mentions that aliens which go berserk with their integrated weapons will crash the game. This is only true for Mind Controlled aliens (or units under X-COM control) - alien controlled units which go berserk do not crash the game. I tested an MC'd Celatid just now and it doesn't crash the game either, though it doesn't immediately go berserk - it waits another turn for some odd reason. Someone want to check this to verify my results? --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:31, 27 December 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== 80-items limit on CE edition ==<br />
<br />
I have the feeling that the 80-items limit does not apply to the CE edition and is instead a 110-items limit (at least during base defence). Can anyone confirm? [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 16:24, 24 February 2010 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I believe this limit was increased for TFTD. Maybe it was also increased for the CE edition of UFO, and only ever applied to the DOS edition of UFO?? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:03, 11 March 2010 (EST)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Game_Editors&diff=33615Talk:Game Editors2011-05-11T21:17:42Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>Hi, there are so many mods out there, I have been wondering which to install and in what order, to get my game modified?<br />
<br />
I actually have 3 problems: 1. The scroll speed is far too fast, even when I set scroll speed to 1. What mods or methods should I use to make EU playable? (TFTD seems to work just fine for some reason)<br />
2. I'd like to try avoiding the game crashing every now and then bug.<br />
3. I would like to avoid the base disjoint bug. I can avoid this by using XcomUtils RunXcom.bat, but then the speed automatically goes too fast. Sigh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:55, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
For 1. and 3. use Ufo Extender, open Ufo Extender.ini in editor and set Tactical Scroll=1 and<br />
Base Disjoint=1 in the Bug fix section. You may find other bugfixes useful as well. For 2. there is no obvious help other than saving a lot. --[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 21:05, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Wowee. Thanks. I'll give it a shot, hopefully it doesn't conflict with Xcumutil or something. BTW, does anyone know whether the Steam version crashes? Or did they introduce the fix they found for TFTD? <br />
:Edit: Darnit, just tried it out and UFO Extender seems to have garbled graphics during the intro, geoscape, etc etc. Sigh. And, yes, I did change Video Pitch=1.<br />
:Edit: Weird. It appears that running the game without any loader at all seems to result in working graphics, but using Extender garbles the graphics. How strange...<br />
:Edit: Also. xcomutil refuses to be compliant with ufo extender. huh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 21:27, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Two possibilities: 1) you make a clean install, avoid Xcomutil totally and go for Extender only. It works like a treat. 2) (harder) You download the LATEST Xcomutil 9.7 version, because this can cooperate with Extender. You make a clean install. You copy Extender in the file. Then you run Xcomutil installer, there's a new question "Do you want to use Extender?", you reply Yes. Now, the garbled graphics may still appear, you have to switch it on in Extender or Xcomutil and switch it off in the other one (this worked for me). Personnally, I'd try using Extender's Video pitch=1, and no Xcomutil's loader (reply No on xcusetup). But I cannot recall which way, you'll find it through trial and error.--[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 04:10, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
This gold edition I'm using is really funky. And now I'm trying the dos4gw version and that doesn't seem to be compatible with the extender either. <br />
<br />
Edit: I managed to get the dos version running with xcomutil, and it seems fine. Would have liked to be able to use Extender, but I don't seem to be able to make it load the dos version. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 17:17, 11 May 2011 (EDT)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Game_Editors&diff=33614Talk:Game Editors2011-05-11T20:51:10Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>Hi, there are so many mods out there, I have been wondering which to install and in what order, to get my game modified?<br />
<br />
I actually have 3 problems: 1. The scroll speed is far too fast, even when I set scroll speed to 1. What mods or methods should I use to make EU playable? (TFTD seems to work just fine for some reason)<br />
2. I'd like to try avoiding the game crashing every now and then bug.<br />
3. I would like to avoid the base disjoint bug. I can avoid this by using XcomUtils RunXcom.bat, but then the speed automatically goes too fast. Sigh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:55, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
For 1. and 3. use Ufo Extender, open Ufo Extender.ini in editor and set Tactical Scroll=1 and<br />
Base Disjoint=1 in the Bug fix section. You may find other bugfixes useful as well. For 2. there is no obvious help other than saving a lot. --[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 21:05, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Wowee. Thanks. I'll give it a shot, hopefully it doesn't conflict with Xcumutil or something. BTW, does anyone know whether the Steam version crashes? Or did they introduce the fix they found for TFTD? <br />
:Edit: Darnit, just tried it out and UFO Extender seems to have garbled graphics during the intro, geoscape, etc etc. Sigh. And, yes, I did change Video Pitch=1.<br />
:Edit: Weird. It appears that running the game without any loader at all seems to result in working graphics, but using Extender garbles the graphics. How strange...<br />
:Edit: Also. xcomutil refuses to be compliant with ufo extender. huh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 21:27, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Two possibilities: 1) you make a clean install, avoid Xcomutil totally and go for Extender only. It works like a treat. 2) (harder) You download the LATEST Xcomutil 9.7 version, because this can cooperate with Extender. You make a clean install. You copy Extender in the file. Then you run Xcomutil installer, there's a new question "Do you want to use Extender?", you reply Yes. Now, the garbled graphics may still appear, you have to switch it on in Extender or Xcomutil and switch it off in the other one (this worked for me). Personnally, I'd try using Extender's Video pitch=1, and no Xcomutil's loader (reply No on xcusetup). But I cannot recall which way, you'll find it through trial and error.--[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 04:10, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
This gold edition I'm using is really funky. And now I'm trying the dos4gw version and that doesn't seem to be compatible with the extender either. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 16:51, 11 May 2011 (EDT)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Known_Bugs&diff=33610Talk:Known Bugs2011-05-11T11:43:05Z<p>Jasonred: /* Bugs vs Exploits */</p>
<hr />
<div>= Classification etc =<br />
<br />
== Bugs vs Exploits ==<br />
<br />
Could someone comment please on the distinction between a bug and an exploit, and where to put each one? I would guess that a bug is something that undesirable and an exploit "might be" desirable, if you want to cheat. But what about exploits that happen by accident, or bugs that need to be forced to happen? <br />
<br />
I was going to add the Research Rollover bug to the Exploits sections, but they seem to all be under construction. What's the agreed approach?<br />
<br />
[[User:Spike|Spike]] 04:16, 15 March 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
* i think that an exploit is somthing you can trigger and gain an advantage from. a bug may or may not have a known trigger, and does not give an advantage if it does.<br />
: All exploits are bugs, either in implementation or design. When using a bug to gain advantages that bug is used as an exploit (you are exploiting the bug). [[User:FrederikHertzum|FrederikHertzum]] 13:39, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: IMHO, Laser Pistols Gifts to train reactions is an exploit, but it does not involve any bugs. It merely exploits the fact that laser pistols will not penetrate the front armor of Flying Suits. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 16:31, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: I guess the point is to differentiate if it's a bug that's being exploited to your advantage, or it it's something confined within the game mechanics that you are exploiting to your advantage (even if using it as intended). -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:31, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::: Another definition: An exploit is <br />
::::: a) a move allowed by game interface <br />
::::: b) that sidesteps another part of the game mechanics<br />
::::: c) and creates inadequate advantage for the moving player in the process.<br />
::::: An exploit is not a bug, but it can be connected with a bug, if the latter allows a move mentioned in a). Most obvious exploits render whole parts of game mechanics obsolete (see b) above), because they are always more advantageous. In games that feature equal terms for AI and the player, an exploit can be discerned simply by the fact that AI does not use it (sadly this is not true in X-COM). Clear exploit in X-COM: Transfer soldiers = no monthly payment. Suspect exploits: grenade layout. Most probably not an exploit: Sniping (although the inequality with AI is suspect). Clearly not an exploit: dropping weapons to prevent Psi mass murder (this one is made exploitable by the AI unable to pick up weapons, but is not an exploit per se).--[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 05:30, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
The dropping weapons sort of turns into an exploit if you do the "everyone suspect of being a psi weakling drops their weapons at the end of the turn. They all pick up their weapons again if unpsied in the next turn." The grenade layout or grenade hot potato is probably not what the game designers had in mind, but I shudder at the thought of someone who only played X-com then joined the army pulling the pin out of his grenade and then dropping it into his haversack or slinging it on his belt. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 07:43, 11 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Bugs vs Limits ==<br />
<br />
''(Discussion continued from [[Talk:Known Bugs#Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested|Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested]])''<br />
<br />
The "Soldier Recruiting Limit" is <b>not</b> a bug, it is a limitation of the game. Therefore, this should be removed from the page. If we want it somewhere else (like a new page such as [[Game Limitations]]), that would be appropriate. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 01:42, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::Not sure that's necessarily the best idea, Zombie, since many of the entries on the Known Bugs article(as well as some entries on the Exploits pages) are limitations of the game engine. On just a brief glance through, the following caught my eye as engine limitations: Manufacturing limit, Storage limit, Purchase limit, 80-item limit, Proximity Grenade limit, Large units not waking up from stun, Interception last shot bug, Alien UFL radar blitz-through bug(Passing through the detection range of a radar before the detection check comes up), Free manufacturing, free wages, UFO Redux, point-scoring with Ctrl-C, permanent MC of chryssalids, Zombie-MC resurrection of agents, alien inventory exploits, anything involved with bad collision detection, extinguishing fire with a Smoke Grenade, and even your personal favorite, denying the aliens access to their own spawn points. So in conclusion, maybe it should just be left as it is; conversely, all of these entries could be kept where they are and also on a Game Limitations page, or we could leave the headers there and link them over to the appropriate topics on Game Limitations. What do you think? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:21, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I agree with AQ (great list of examples by the way - and the Smoke/Fire limit would be another). Many, if not most, of the bugs are "Limitations" but they are logically inconsistent and not what a player would expect to happen: they are imposed by (at best) memory limitations or (at worst) design/programming oversights. I think the easiest thing to do would be to change the title of the page to Known Bugs and Limitations, or put an explanatory note at the beginning of the section to explain that "Bugs" is taken to included "Limitations". [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:16, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
By the strictest sense of meaning, a "bug" is a mistake or error on the programmers part. Limitations imposed <i>by design</i> or memory are not the same creature as the people involved were consciously aware of the decision. I suppose that to the normal player, any type of behavior which is unexpected/unwanted is automatically dumped in the bug category because to them there is no difference. To those of us who study the game files however, the two are unequivalent. Programming oversights, yes, those are bugs.<br />
<br />
Some of those limitations AQ mentions are (to me at least) bugs: free manufacturing, free wages, permanent MC of Cryssies (or actually any alien for that matter), Zombie resurrections and collision detection. Large aliens not waking up from stun is again, a bug. The programmers obviously had some issues when dealing with large units in general and never quite got it right. They made some progress in TFTD by trying to fix mind controlling each section of a large unit, but royally screwed it up by selecting the next 3 entries in UNITPOS.DAT no matter what they pointed to.<br />
<br />
Perhaps it's just my background in logic which makes me want to push for a separate category for limitations. Then again, as long as everything is listed somewhere I'm happy. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 22:06, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Actually, taking a look through the page as a whole there are various other Limits described, and the distinction between Bugs and Limits is made quite rigorously throughout - not just in the Soldier Limits and Bugs section, where the Soldier Recruiting Limit is referred to as a Limit whereas other bugs (such as paying salaries for soldiers you can't recruit) are referred to as Bugs. So we maybe just need to rename the pages "Bugs and Limits" and add an explanatory note on the distinction. From a user point of view, rather than a programmer point of view, a bug is an unexpected (inconsistent or illogical) behaviour, so for that reason I think it makes sense to keep them on the same page but try to ensure they are all correctly classified as Bug or Limit.<br />
<br />
: By the way, it could be hard to absolutely distinguish Bugs from Limits as I suspect there are going to be some grey areas where you would have to second-guess the intentions and decisions of the coders to know for sure if something was a designed-in Limit, or just an oversight (Bug). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 06:50, 10 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::If we distinguish in this manner, I suggest the definition of "Limit" should be, "Something imposed by the game files or engine as a limitation, most likely in context to the capabilites of the then-current personal computer." More succinctly, anything that was done to allow the game to run acceptably on what was then a PC. This would include both the Soldier and 80-Item limits, the spawn limit(40 units per side), Smoke/Fire limit, and some of the others listed. (The Purchase limit was probably more of a convienence for the programmers than anything, but it is clearly an intended feature.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:11, 10 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I would add to this that sometimes a Limit may be imposed as a game design / gameplay decision, rather than in order to conserve a constrained resource in the platform (=PC). Also, I would suggest that ''intended'' Limits are Limits, but ''unintended'' consequences of Limits are Bugs. Obviously, making this distinction involves some guesswork. But I would guess that while the limit on total smoke/fire hexes was an intended Limit (to conserve PC resources), the ability to put out fires with smoke grenades and disperse smoke with IC rounds is probably an unintended consequence of the Limit, and so should probably be considered a Bug. Similarly, Base Defence spawn points are probably an intended limit, but the ability to flood spawn points is an unintended consequence of this, and thus a Bug (and an Exploit). (Spawn points should have been shared out 50/50, not humans-first). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:07, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::The limit on Soldier and Interception craft were probably more of a limit imposed because they capped the file and figured that X-COM wouldn't ever need more than 40 interception craft or 250 soldiers. (And I've never needed that many, case in point.)<br />
<br />
::As for spawns, its actually difficult to take advantage of it in any reasonably established base. X-COM can spawn up to 40 soldiers in a base defense mission(tanks count as 4 soldiers), as a limit of LOC.DAT. Aliens have the same limit. So in order to take advantage of the bug, the base needs 40 or less spawns total. The Access Lift has 8 spawn points, General Stores(weapon-handling) has 11, Living Quarters has 8 more. This is 27 Spawns just getting soldiers in a base and armed. (Although the General Stores can be cut out if you perform the bug properly). Large Radar and HWD have 6 spawns(Small Radar has 2), and Hangar has 15. So overall, the "Spawn prevention" can be hard to take advantage of with all but the smallest bases. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 14:48, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
Just to clarify, X-COM interception craft are not capped at 40 ships. LOC.DAT has a cap of 50 "things" on the geoscape screen at a time. This is shared between X-COM bases, X-COM ships, alien bases, seen or unseen UFO's, terror sites, crash sites, landing sites and waypoints. In a perfect game world with little alien activity and normally constructed bases, the max number of X-COM craft possible is 44: 5 bases with 8 hangars each plus one base with 4 hangars (or any combination thereof). If you illegally modify your base layout with an editor to get rid of the access lift, the max can be increased to 45 ships (9 hangars in 5 bases). Once clogged, all alien activity will cease.<br />
<br />
The base defense limit of 40 units exists because of UNITPOS.DAT which has a cap of 80 entries total (tanks occupy 4 entries in this file). Auto-win missions in a base defense mission by clogging all the spawn points with X-COM units isn't as tough as it sounds, especially if your base is small or doesn't contain hangars. The main thing is getting your full quota of 40 units to spawn (meaning you should try not to have any tanks as they count as 4 units but only occupy one spawn point). This limits the base size to something like 5-6 modules depending on what you build. Still, even having more than 6 modules isn't bad as it forces aliens to spawn intermingled between your troops. With 40 armed guys staring in every direction, you can get positions of all the aliens in the first round and possibly even kill them all (depends on weapons and alien race of course). --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I would say that Limits are the CAUSE of bugs... also, I feel that fire/smoke limit can be called a bug, because a player normally has no way to tell this, other than observation. Whereas the game DIRECTLY and CLEARLY informs you whenever you hit the 80 item or 250 soldier limits, which is more fair. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:22, 23 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
= Specific Bug Discussions =<br />
<br />
== Misc Technical Bug ? ==<br />
<br />
''(The context of this discussion seems to have been lost)''<br />
<br />
This is a technical bug that doesn't happen to everyone and one this article wasn't really meant to chronical - but we won't turn away helping a fellow player if it can't be helped. It's just that there are so many random crash points in this game that it would take far too long to find them all or come up with solutions for them. <br />
<br />
Certainly, the transfer crash can happen to some players, but it's not one that can be reproduced easily. It's just like the random crash that some players get when they research a floater medic. It crashes the game for some of us, but others don't seem to notice it at all. <br />
<br />
It really depends on your hardware and OS setup, whether or not your copy of the game is damaged or your savegame is damaged, etc. <br />
<br />
Does it happen in all games or just this one savegame? <br />
<br />
- [[User:NKF|NKF]] <br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
== "Invisible Muton" bug ==<br />
<br />
Upon shooting repeatedly a Muton, it sometimes plays its "death" animation without sound (as if falling unconscious) and it is no longer displayed in the screen, while remaining visible to my soldiers (I can center the screen and the cursor appears yellow over them). Under this state, they cannot be targeted by Stun Rods. They may play their death animation anytime they get shot, until they truly die, when they emit their characteristic sound and leave a corpse (along with any items carried).<br />
<br />
I'm quite fond of laser weapons, maybe this happens more often with those.<br />
<br />
Also, though I remember experiencing this quite often fighting Mutons, it may happen to any other high health race.--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 02:59, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
Never seen that one myself. Another "unpatched game" thing maybe?<br />
<br />
There's a (very rare) bug that allows your soldiers to live if they become stunned by an explosion that happens to kill them. Sometimes the game will register their death, and THEN register that they've been stunned. In every case I've seen this happen, however, the unit will have such a low amount of health that a single fatal wound will render it dead (again) on the next turn. I have a vague memory that other players may have been able to get a medkit to the scene on time...<br />
<br />
I dunno if that's related to your issue at all (I doubt it, but... meh). I'd advise using a Mind Probe on the alien the next time it happens so you can check the aliens stun/health levels.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure I've seen this with Mutons. Possibly Chrysallids as well, another high health, high armor creature. They were still readily killed by shooting the place they are. Good thought on the MP, BB<br />
<br />
---[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 08:51, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I've been known to have a dying muton(in fire) to spin around and then switch to the female civilian death animation. With the scream and everything. Even got a civilian death registered at the end of the mission. And this didn't just happen once, but on another separate occasion.<br />
<br />
Hmm. shape-shifting reptilians in the game! LOL! Happens alot [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Unusually enough, I once had a sectopod die and then drop a tank corpse. I was using the Lightning at the time for my troop carrier, so you can imagine my surprise. <br />
<br />
Then there was one occasion where a floater dropped a snakeman corpse. Let's not even get into the sort of things the aliens like to stuff themselves with. <br />
<br />
Your invisible alien bug is quite common, although there appears to be many causes for it. I think one involves a full object table when it comes to invisible aliens in bases. But it can also happen in ordinary missions as well. I'm guessing the game may have tried to do something in the wrong order, and sprite information for the unit may have been lost or corrupted along the way. <br />
<br />
Having had an experience where all the chryssalids become invisible in one base defence mission was quite a shocker. I fixed this by saving the game, quitting and then restarting the game. If you ever get an invisible alien again, try this and see if it helps. If it doesn't, well, just keep a careful watch on your map and any alerts that pop up as you play. <br />
<br />
There's a similar but less severe bug where a dead alien will still leave its centre-on-unit alert button, but this goes away shortly after you move or turn. <br />
<br />
- [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
That last bug happens when exploding Cyberdiscs kill nearby Sectoids, doesn't it?--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 23:56, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
This is a pretty easy one. I guess this bug occured on UFO recovery on a battleship, an alien base assault or a base defense mission? As soon as there are too many items on the map, the game saves some item slots for the equipment to be displayed (since it is more valuable and more important to research). This would also make stun weapons lethal if the stunned aliens would vanish. therefore the game has a failsafe if an alien is stunned (or badly wounded and becoming uncontious). The downed alien's stun level is set exactly on its left health points therefore resurrecting it instantly. This cycle is broken when the alien is finally killed. This means if you want to stun an alien in such a situation you have to destroy some items first.<br />
<br />
- by tequilachef (April 4th 2007)<br />
<br />
== Vanishing snakemen ==<br />
<br />
I've known snakemen to become invisible when standing on a hay bale. On the first occassion I had a poor tank getting shot while spending numerous turns looking for it. On the second occasion I had an alien under Psi-control, left it on the hay bale, and couldn't find it next turn. - Egor<br />
<br />
---<br />
<br />
This is not limited to snakemen. Hay bale block visibility quite much when a unit is standing on it. Two possible solutions:<br />
- Destroy the hay before entering<br />
- Shoot at the hay. If it is destroyed any unit on it will become visible (as long as no other bales are blocking the line of sight). You might also hit the enemy directly.<br />
<br />
I Dnt know if the aliens are affected by this diminished sight, too. My guess would be no.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)<br />
<br />
== Blaster Bomb Bug ==<br />
<br />
I'm currently playing through X-com UFO Defense, I have the collectors edition version. I'm in the process of trying to catch a live alien commander and the blaster bomb bug is making this very difficult. If i remember correctly a commander is always in the command center of the the alien bases. The problem is anytime i get close there is always a dude with a blaster launcher up there that tries to kill my troops. When they try to fire it down at me the bug kicks in and they blow up the whole command room and all the aliens in it because they can't figure out how to get the blaster bomb down the grav lift thing in there. This is making it very dificult to actually catch a live commander. Anyone have any ideas for tactics or anything to breach that room without the aliens trying to fire a blaster launcher up there? - eL Hector<br />
<br />
: I can suggest two possible solutions. The first is to wait outside the command room for the alien to move closer to you. If it comes out of the room or if you know it has moved down the lift, you then burst in and stand right next to it to stop it from firing the blaster. This is risky because there could very well be a heavy plasma toting alien in there. The other is to use a small launcher and launch it up at the ceiling near where you think the alien with the blaster is standing. -[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Disappearing Ammunition ==<br />
<br />
I have observed that problem with X-COM 1.2, modded with XCOMUTIL. My stun bombs and heavy rocket missiles, along with clips for the auto cannon went missing.<br />
[[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]<br />
<br />
------<br />
<br />
Just run a test using my 1.4 DOS version with XComUtil but my stun bombs didn't disappear: 30 + 1 back in the base they came from, same number after I went tactical and I dusted-off immediately. Are you running XComUtil with Runxcom.bat or did you simply run Xcusetup?<br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 22:12, 22 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Is it a case of hitting the 80-item limit?--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 12:28, 23 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
------<br />
With runxcomw.bat, as everytime. Apologies, I retested and it seems like I was mistakened, but I could have sworn that I lost them dang stunbombs. Had to manufacture some. I will test some more, using four heavy weapons and seeing whether their ammunition disappears at all. Thanks. [[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]<br />
<br />
==MC at end = MIA?==<br />
<br />
I am sure I have seen this again recently, where I won a mission with no casualties (I thought), but the last thing I killed was a Commander that had been chain MC'ing a psi-attack-magnet trooper, and that trooper was listed as MIA at the end (presumably because he was on the enemy side at the end of combat). Is this a bug, or is there another way to get MIA's on a completed mission that I might have missed?<br />
<br />
Since then I have been waiting for the leaders to panic at the end before killing them (or waiting for a rare resist), so I can safely exit, but am I being overcautious?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 13:45, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
If the trooper was mind controlled on the turn you killed the last alien it will be listed as MIA. No bug there :) <br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 18:16, 1 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
Huh, why would that happen - your soldier should recover the very next round, why would he go MIA?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 18:20, 1 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
Doesn't make sense to me as well but that's how the game works. <br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 15:05, 2 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
It seems that regaining control of units under enemy mind control works different for alien and human players. My guess: aliens under human MC are reverted to alien control AFTER THE ALIEN AND BEFORE THE HUMAN TURN while human units under alien control are reverted RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE HUMAN TURN. This explains three different phenomenons:<br />
<br />
- The discussed MIA "bug" (he unit would be returned in the next human turn, but since it never starts it is lost. The mission is still won since no unit with a "genuine alien" marking is left)<br />
<br />
- The fact that a mission is lost when the last human falls under MC while it is not won when this happens to the last standing alien (the aliens get their unit back before their turn starts and therefore have a unit left to pass the "anyone alive?" check, the humans would have no unit left to start a turn with. They WOULD have as soon as the turn starts, but no unit left before turn means bust)<br />
<br />
- The fact that aliens still can see all an MCed human saw at the end of the human turn that follows the MC while this is not vice versa (The MCed human can give information to the alien side before reverted while an MCed alien is reverted too early). The result is that aliens can control a human indefinitely without having any alien seeing him until the MC is disrupted for one turn.<br />
<br />
All confused? Then I did a good job! No seriously, this must be the explanation, I couldn't think of any other way.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)<br />
<br />
: You're absolutely correct on the first two points. It's a sequence issue - you never get round to recovering the unit before the new turn starts, so you end without any units whatsoever. Makes senses too since the aliens would continue to continue to mind control that same unit over and over indefinitely. <br />
<br />
: The third point however: The aliens don't need to know the location of the last MC'd unit. They know the location of all your troops whether they've seen them or not from the very start. They appear to give you a few turns of grace where they won't attack you outright (unless, from my observation, all your soldiers are incredibly weak). This is evident because all of the aliens will eventually make their way towards the nearest soldier even though their movement pattern may seem semi-random. Also, they know where you are because they can initiate psionic attacks without having seen any of your troops. They generally go after the weakest troops first. <br />
<br />
: Just to add a semi-related point, but from the alien's perspective. If an MC'd alien unit is in the exits when you abort the mission, this alien is not recovered and in fact simply vanishes. Any equipment it was carrying is recovered, unknown artefacts or otherwise. You could possibly think of this as their version of MIA. However, the aliens differ ever so slightly in that if it's the last alien standing and under temporary mind control by the player, the mission doesn't end straight away. But I guess this is only because the player has everything under control, whereas in the other scenario, the Ai is in control. <br />
<br />
: -[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Crash Site in the atlantic ocean ==<br />
<br />
That's right, my game generated a crash site on water. Here are the details:<br />
<br />
- Crash Site a bit southeast of the USA (which was infiltrated a few days before by sectoids, resulting base had already been taken out), but certainly not on land.<br />
<br />
- UFO: battleship, floater, alien harvest<br />
<br />
- Geoscape: 8 X-Com Bases, 1 (known) Alien base, 2 other crash sites, 1 other (known) flying UFO (though almost worldwide decoder coverage), 3 X-Com Crafts out, 1 waypoint<br />
<br />
- Date: January 2000<br />
<br />
- Most Interesting: The Craft that downed the ship was a recently finished Firestorm (first human-alien hybrid craft I had built, I know this is lame for that date. Limited myself on 25 Scientists to improve the challenge) equipped with twin plasma. I had it built and equipped in Antarctica and then transferred to Europe. This base had no Elerium, a fact that enabled me to use the infinite fuel exploit which was in effect when downing the UFO. My craft was only slightly damaged when doing so. The battleship was the first target assigned to the craft, it came directly from my base. <br />
<br />
- When shot down, the UFO was not targetted by any other craft.<br />
<br />
- I had not lost or sold a single craft to that point.<br />
<br />
- When sending a squad to the crash site the game didn't crash but generated a farm land ground combat terrain.<br />
<br />
- I was not able to reproduce the bug from the savegame dated 2 hours before downing the UFO<br />
<br />
Well guys, any intelligent guesses? I still have the savegames (before and after downing)! If you want to have a look, write here.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 5th 2007)<br />
----<br />
: Well I'm sure you know about crash sites that are near land can sometimes actually be on water, so I'm going to assume that this site is well far away from any land mass. Could it be a weird entry in GEODATA\WORLD.DAT that has a land mass out in the ocean? Also are you sure the game didn't crash? Sometimes when it does it will load the previous mission (and usually 90% are at farm terrain). Are you sure it generated a new map and not load the last one?<br />
:No real guesses but maybe some starting points to look at. I've probably stated some obvious situations you know about and have accounted for, but it never hurts to double check :D<br />
- [[User:Pi Masta|Pi Masta]] 14:23, 5 April 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Inconsistencies in MCing Cyberdiscs and Sectopods ==<br />
<br />
I experienced, that when MCing one quadrant of a large terror unit any action it does only affects this quadrant (especially use of time units). That means, when TUs are up for one part, MC another one and continue firing. This however does not work out when moving the unit while it is not under complete control. The TUs used up by the resulting reaction fire from the rest of the unit is also deducted from the TUs "your" part has left (making it impossible for the controlled parts to return fire). This however only happens under reaction fire, not if "your" part fires on it's own. I don't know if this comes up when uncontrolled parts shoot by themselves in the alien turn, since this is hard to find out.<br />
<br />
: That's because large units literally are made up of four separate units. They only share the same set of general stats (in unitref.dat). Unfortunately the 'under mind control flag' is unique to the four units, not the shared stats! So you in effect have multiple units under different control sharing the same stats. So if you move and it results in a reaction from the unit, it will spend the TUs you're using. <br />
: Successful mind control automatically fills up the unit's TUs, so each mind controlled sector gets to move or attack again until there are no more sectors to mind control. Useful way of turning reapers into long range scouts! <br />
: In TFTD, they attempted to fix this bug, but in fact made it much-much worse! The only way to mind control the unit properly is to control the upper left quadrant. Only! Any other quadrant will result in a partial (clockwise) control, and you may gain control of units other than that unit, or may even get into situations where you gain permanent 'partial control' of a large unit you haven't even sited. Wackiness all around! <br />
<br />
:- [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Facility Dismantle Bug ==<br />
<br />
Boba: I've never experienced this bug myself in all my games in the Collectors Edition. It may very well vary from computer to computer. <br />
<br />
-[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
:I, however, have experienced it. I lost an entire month's worth of playtime because I couldn't solve it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]]<br />
<br />
::Anyone, any ideas on why it might vary from PC to PC? -[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]<br />
<br />
:::I'd check other factors before blaming a given system. Assuming no mods are being used the most obvious is the order in which you initiated the construction of the modules. Then we've got which one was due to be completed first, and I'm sure there's a few other things to test out. Usually, a player won't cancel in-progress modules on a regular basis, so you wouldn't expect this bug to turn up often. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Easy way to reproduce: build 2 General Stores. Now delete the "second one" (see offset 16-39 in [[BASE.DAT]] for the order). Wait for the first one to complete. It'll crash immediately after the "end of construction" dialog. A fix is available [[User:Seb76#Bug_Fixes | here]]. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 15:52, 22 July 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Manufacturing Limit Bug ==<br />
<br />
Unfortunately, Mike, no you did not get it correct. It is the raw number of hours needed to complete the project, not the projected hours. I discussed this on the X-Com Forums a few months back at the following link: http://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=242027760&st=0&#entry164411<br />
<br />
I did tests at the time in regard to the accuracy of the data given there, but I've lost the results. I'll quickly redo the tests in the next hour or so. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:00, 8 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Tests complete. The breakpoints for every item were exactly where I predicted, regardless of number of engineers assigned. (I ran up a huge queue of items at my dedicated factory base on an old game, and then assigned whatever engineers would fit onto one project at a time, canceling projects as data was confirmed. This is only semi-random, but it serves our purposes.) I did run into a single issue, though. It appears that despite having 5 empty hangars at a (different!) base, the workshop there could not queue up more than 3 of any one craft at a time, thus making this bug impossible to replicate with the Firestorm or Lightning, as you must be producing more than three for the bug to occur. However, it still works with the Avenger. Later, I shall see about constructing a dedicated Hangar base with 7 hangars in order to attempt to replicate the bug. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:33, 8 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Sounds great, Arrow. Why not post a simple example that shows how the problem works. As in, "with 1 Eng and 2 Avengers you might think X, but no, it's Y". And please delete my example. And it's a fine pleasure to meet you! Cool - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]<br />
<br />
:::When you say the usual resources are used by the "lost" resources, that includes cash, right? It sounds like if you're willing to foot the extra bill [[Buying/Selling/Transferring#Manufacturable_Prices|money/component-wise]], this could be used to build Avengers slightly faster then normal.<br />
<br />
::: The usual time is 34000 hours. Double that and subtract 65535 and you're left with a paltry 2465 hours. Even a single workshop squad of 10 engineers will pull that off in a little over ten days. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Sadly, this exploit doesn't work, because the high bit is stored SOMEWHERE. I lack a hex reader and have no code reading skills to speak of, so I'm a bit limited here. If you set up a Workshop as you described, the game would take all the time for 2 Avengers, all the resources for the same, but in the end only produce 1 Avenger. Meanwhile, I'll run more tests on the resources thing. I could swear it consumes the resources, but I'll double check.<br />
<br />
:::::There is no need to store the high bits if the actual completion condition (assuming adequate money) is "number made is number ordered", which wouldn't reference the hours remaining at all. - [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 01:49, 9 Oct 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::::Tests done; I was unable to replicate the 'disappearing item' trick,(Which I didn't test for last night) even with Avengers! It appears I was wrong; this still counts as a bug, though, because the wraparound is a problem.<br />
<br />
::::Ironic that so much of this discussion centers around Avengers, because that's where I discovered this in the first place! [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:48, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I'm revisiting XCOM and was working on [[Manufacturing Profitability]]... Arrow, can you (or anyone else) say a little bit more on the Known Bugs page about this [[Known_Bugs#Manufacturing_Limit_Bug]]? It's not clear to me exactly what the bug does, except that it understates hours. Is that all?... does it still take the (non-buggy) amount of time, still use all the same resources, still make the same number, etc.? It sounds like it could be a drastic bug - or is it only a very superficial one, a display bug for the hours? It sounds like you're leaning toward this latter.<br />
<br />
Also on a semi-related note... I could swear I saw much more detailed info on the [[Known_Bugs#Facility_Maintenance_Costs]] issue... IIRC, the incorrect amount that's charged for maintenance, depends on exactly where a facility is in the base. IOW, different "rows" of the base cost different amounts. Could somebody provide a link there, and/or flesh the bug out better?<br />
<br />
Thanks! - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 11:22, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I've actually seen the bug work both ways, but I've only been able to actually replicate the more superficial version of the bug. So the bug report up is about a superficial bug that drastically understates production time. If you wish to make this clearer, you have my blessings. As well, that 'different charging based on location' is dealt with here: http://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Base_Facilities ; however, the table has been broken with the Wikiupgrade, and I lack sufficient knowledge of HTML table code to fix it. But it should be of use to you. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 11:26, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Cool, I fixed [[Talk:Base Facilities]] but also re-organized and expanded [[Base Facilities]] so that it includes that bug in detail, as per Talk... this is an important issue that should be up front. I see that there's a separate [[Maintenance costs]] page, but I can't see having something so important (the maintenance bug explanation) all on its own page (which makes for a rather short page) rather than together with all the rest of the base facility info. If others agree (or don't care), I'll move anything remaining on Maintenance Costs to the Base Facilities page, then delete Maintenance Costs and re-route links. And if somebody does care, then please move my new section to Maintenance Costs, and move all the links, etc. Oh also I put in more words on your Manufacturing Limit Bug - how does it look? - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 16:37, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Looks pretty good, although it'll wrap fully; if you ask for 120000 hours, it won't be displaying 'almost no' time. The way I discovered it was when building two Avengers; I ordered two, paid for two, waited for two...and got one. But as said, haven't managed to repeat it, so until I do, we'll leave it like that. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I just revised and put in your specific example, because it's certainly possible some of us die-hard players will order up more than 1 Avenger at a time - and it's guaranteed it'd be a pain if 1 of them disappeared, laugh. I wasn't sure how concrete you were on that example but now I hear you say, you are sure it happened at least once. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 18:33, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I have a question concerning the manufacturing "bug" which eats a craft in production due to wrap-over of the byte. Arrow (or whoever did the test), did you have a large quantity of craft already built at your bases? If so, I think this bug has more to deal with clogging up [[CRAFT.DAT]]. See, that file has a limit of 50 entries. Each craft takes up one record and each base you have built also consumes one spot. 8 bases allows 42 craft to be housed, while 6 bases allow 44. If you try to buy or manufacture craft once the file is full, nothing shows up in the game even if you have hangar space available. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 19:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Huh, I never knew that. I don't see it listed on the Bugs page... I'll stick it in there. I've never approached that number, but some folks might. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 19:07, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I was able to continue building other Avengers after that project, and they appeared correctly, so I do not believe that is the issue. In any event, I have a very bad case of 'archivism' and probably still have the save game and the CRAFT.DAT file around on my system; in fact, I think I was playing it a few days ago. I can see if I can find it and upload it; it created a 'hole' in the Avenger fleet numbers, where Avenger's x and x+2 were built, but x+1 was not. I'll look for it tonight and tomorrow and upload it to the wiki if I find it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:10, 8 October 2007 (PDT) EDIT: I found the file; I have 28 Avengers and 1 Skyranger in my employ. All Avenger numbers EXCEPT #2(Avenger-2) are accounted for, and I have not sacked or lost any Avengers. So this is where the hole and 'eaten' Avenger is. If anyone wants the CRAFT.DAT file from this game, I'd be happy to forward it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:20, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Sure, send it my way and I'll take a look at it. (Might as well send me the whole saved game as I may want to look at the other files too). I have tried to recreate this bug by manufacturing 1, 2 and 3 Avengers at a clip but all of them always show up. Don't know what else I could do to get this problem to crop up. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:32, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:File emailed. On the side, I've tried the same thing, and never been able to repeat the bug. It's been months since the first discovery, so I can't recall whether it was the first or the second Avenger that didn't appear. So maybe it was just a fluke. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:57, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Unconscious Enemy in Equipment Screen ==<br />
<br />
The following happened to me repeatedly over the last few days.<br />
<br />
In the last tactical Mission a live alien has been captured. When now beginning an UFO crash recovery mission this type of alien (same race and rank) appears in the equipment screen before the mission starts, meaning I can give it to any of my soldiers.<br />
If I do so I can store the alien in the skyranger for the duration of the mission and, if it gains consciousness, kill or stun it at the end of it. A pile of equipment without a corpse will be in the UFO, indicating that the stunned alien is not some kind of duplicate but instead has been taken from the aliens of this mission. This is supported by the fact that in those missions the maximum number of crew members has not been surpassed.<br />
If I do not do so the Alien will be placed in the crashed UFO. Whether it is unconscious or not I do not know, but the fact that it is completely disarmed when encountered in the battle suggests that it is.<br />
<br />
So far it seems the following is necessary for the bug to occur:<br />
# An alien has to be captured alive in the last tactical combat<br />
# It has to be of the same race and rank as one of the aliens in the new tactical combat<br />
<br />
So far this only worked...:<br />
# If the new tactical combat was an UFO crash recovery of a medium scout.<br />
# For floaters and mutons<br />
# For soldiers and navigators<br />
# If the alien in the last mission was stunned by normal weapon fire (although I do not think this is important) and not picked up (again, not likely to be important) or destroyed (which would mean it has to be actually captured)<br />
<br />
It seems NOT to depend on the following:<br />
# The type of the last mission (were, so far: Ground assault battleship, crash recovery large scout, base defense)<br />
# Which squad or vessel was involved capturing the alien<br />
# Where it is locked up<br />
# If it has been transferred since capture or not<br />
<br />
Would be interesting to know:<br />
# What happens if the alien in the inventory screen is the only survivor<br />
# If the alien in the invenory screen is one of the aliens randomly killed in the crash or not (it is likely to be one of the killed aliens, so far the equipment piles were always within the UFO)<br />
# If this is not limited on crashed medium scouts: Does this work with terror units? What about large ones?<br />
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Maybe this is related to the proximity grenade bug (transfer of item properties to next tactical combat).<br />
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Additionally, in one of those mission a part of the terrain was not generated correctly. It was in farm terrain (The house on the right square, or north east square, in [[Image:Terrain-cult.gif|this pic]]). The outer wall right to the right window of the southern wall (1st Floor) was missing. Directly outside of the hole was a floor tile. I could walk a soldier through the wall, but he fell right through the tile. Dunno if this has to do with the stunned alien bug.<br />
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Version is collectors edition (the one from abandonia.com).<br />
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When a mission starts, the GeoScape engine generates the unit and object tables (in MissDat's [[OBPOSREF.DAT]], [[UNIPOS.DAT]], and [[UNIREF.DAT]]) before "shutting down". The Tactical engine then generates the maps, places the aliens on it, and blows up the UFO (if need be). Whether or not map generation and the subsequent events happen before you equip your soldiers I don't yet know.<br />
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The test would be to check the aforementioned files to see if they contain an unconcious alien, and/or the body.<br />
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Note that you can't see the bodies of large units on the ground (they count as four seperate objects covering four seperate tiles, so allowing the user to pick one up would essentially let you rip them apart).<br />
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- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 06:35, 5 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
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I honestly have no idea of how all those files work. But I still have a savegame in battlescape that is in one of those missions. So if anyone wants to have a look at those files...<br />
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I forgot to mention: I reloaded a geoscape savegame shortly before the battle to recreate the bug, but it seems that reloading in geoscape before the buggy battle eliminates the bug. I guess his should narrow down the possible reasons...<br />
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Next time it happens, backup the aforementioned files before you start another mission. I'm afraid a savegame wouldn't be of much help.<br />
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- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 00:54, 7 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
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== Soldiers moved to outside of combat screen ==<br />
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Hi, I've got a DOS version of UFO:EU, and I've encountered a bug in the tactical combat. Sometimes (rarely) a X-COM soldier changes its location on the map on player's turn start and is placed on outside of the map, one tile north from the (north) border of the field. AFAIR the unit is then selectable (you get the flashing highlight when cursor is above), but is stuck outside of the field. Has anybody encountered this bug? It seems to happen randomly, but more frequently during the terror missions and on early turns (so maybe it's caused by high number of player/alien/civilian units?). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 08:16, 3 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
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:I've never encountered this bug in CE of UFO. Presuming AFAIR means "As Far As I Recall," what exactly was the soldier doing? Any equipment data, location, or stat info might help us pin it down. Were afflicted soldiers always carrying a specific equipment set or weapon? Where were they on the map before they got moved? Did they get bumped a few spaces, or teleported halfway across the Battlescape? Does it happen more often on a specific difficulty?(Your theory would suggest this would happen most commonly on Superhuman) Against a certain type of alien? Best of all, if you can recreate the situation in a game, save the game and then you could upload the save file to the forums or this wiki, and the rest of us could take a look for ourselves and the code divers could root around for the cause. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:03, 3 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
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:: I've had this happen to me several times in UFO and TFTD. I don't know if it's specific to the Dos version or if it can happen in the CE as well. Sometimes the soldier ends up beyond the boundary of the map right at the start of the mission, at other times it happens after you load a game. This game is glitchy, which is the source for so many of its bugs, so your soldier's coordinates are probably getting corrupted to the point where they are -1 on either the X or Y axis of the maps's normal boundaries. For me it's commonly along the top edge of the map. I don't ever recall it happening mid-mission, only at the start or after a load. I cannot faithfully say whether it happened with or without XComutil, but that could be one of the possibly many causes for this. - [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
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:: I don't play UFO often, so I rely on just several campaigns played. This happens rarely (I've encountered this bug twice in my last campaign with ~80 missions played), but if you haven't seen this happen then it probably doesn't show up in the CE edition. In my experience the soldier is moved always beyond the north/top map border. I think (but I'm not sure) that this affects the first soldier from the team more commonly than others (or maybe even exclusevily?). The equipment/armor carried is probably not relevant, since the units moved this way don't have any special stuff, and this bug shows up on different stages of the gameplay (ie. sometimes when you have ordinary rifles, sometimes when all your units got heavy plasmas and power suits). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 04:12, 4 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
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'''MY ramblings have been moved to my discussion page''' [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]<br />
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==Great Circle Route==<br />
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Should we have the Great Circle Route bug noted on this page at all? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 20:33, 6 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
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: what is the great circle route? [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 07:56, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
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:: Pick two points on a globe, then hold a thread or string taut at those two points. That practically minimizes the length of the thread/string on the globe. You're now looking at a great circle arc (or route), the shortest distance between two points on a globe. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 11:15 March 2009 (CDT)<br />
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: Just as a line is the shortest distance between 2 points on a flat plane, a great circle is the shortest distance between 2 points on the surface of a sphere. The bug, by the way, is that aircraft in the game ''don't'' follow this shortest, "great circle" route. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:38, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
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:: What a grand sounding name, for something so simple, lol. ... I thought you were talking about when you tell your soldiers to go from point A to point B, and for some reason they figure that Zone A and Zone B are really far apart, despite actually being side by side. (I shot a hole through a wall, clicked to walk to the other side, and my idiot soldier walked one big circle... to use the door! And got ambushed and killed by an alien. ... dum dum DUMB DUMB.)<br />
:: Even the more modern games have problems with their pathfinding algorythms. Admittedly, games like Baldur's Gate had to do it in realtime.<br />
:: On a semi-related note, I remember this guy called E-man, he was chasing a guided laser beam that was going to kill his girl, around the world, but he couldn't outrun it since he couldn't break the speed of light, only equal it by changing into a Laser himself. So... inspiration! He turned into a very powerful laser, and made a shortcut THROUGH THE EARTH... the straight line beats the great circle route, lol.<br />
:: Thanks for the reply guys [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:56, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
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==Bug not listed: Missing soldiers during base defense==<br />
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I encountered an interesting bug concerning base defense missions:<br />
My base got attacked while about 30 soldiers and 10 HWPs were present. The usual equipment assignment screen was skipped and the mission started instantly with only the HWPs spawned at the map. Not even a single soldier bothered to show up... *sigh*<br />
Although this turned out to be in my favor (you should have seen the puzzled Ethereals trying to panic my tanks) I´d like to avoid this bug if possible. I was able to reproduce this bug several times and with different bases. <br />
Can anyone explain this bug and/or tell me how to avoid it?<br />
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Game version: Collectors edition. - [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
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Well, ideally, we need to know what your base's construction was to be sure of this, but I think the most likely circumstance is that the HWPs took up all the spawn points. HWPs have maximum priority for spawning(followed by Soldiers, and then Aliens), so if you have enough of them garrisoning a base, it's entirely possible that soldiers and aliens won't spawn. However, this doesn't explain why the soldiers didn't start stealing the Alien spawn points...in any event, you might want to take the save game file, zip it up, and get ready to email it. I'm sure [[User:Zombie|Zombie]] would be quite interested. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:28, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
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It's not the spawn points, it's a [[UNITPOS.DAT]] limitation. A maximum of forty records (out of the total of eighty) are allocated for your units, and tanks (which take up four records each) get first pick. Having ten tanks means there's no room left for anything else.<br />
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Ditch one HWP and you should see four units take it's place. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 16:42, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
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I´ll try with a decreasing number of tanks and report the results. As I wrote above having only HWPs isn´t too bad dependent on what enemy is attacking. [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
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This should be mentioned in the [[ExploitsE#Base Defence Mission Spawning Issues]] section. The Bugs/Exploits really need to be sorted and consolidated. - [[User:NinthRank|NinthRank]] 16:57, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
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The limitation to 40 records seems to be the case; each tank I dumped got replaced by four soldiers. <br />
So this can be used to effectively manage unit combination. Thanks for the quick replies! [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
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==Bug not listed: Ufo Gold (Windows Vers. abandonia.com) crashing when plasma defense is finished==<br />
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I recordnized this bug a few times now. (with hacked AND unhacked game)<br />
If i place a plasma defense in 7 bases at the same Time and they are finished at the same Time, the game crashes sometimes.<br />
In hacked game, it seems to crash even more when Alien containment is finished, plasma defense, shield defense...etc.<br />
couldnt find it here...greetz<br />
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: I somehow doubt the sourcing is the issue. [You may want to fund the next XCOM series game with a Take2 re-release of UFO :)] More generally: the game only reports the construction of a given type of facility <b>once</b>, no matter how many bases it completes at simultaneously. I've only tested this <i>in vivo</i> with three-of-a-kind at once across six bases, however. It does seem reasonable that some sort of counter of undisplayed completions would "overflow" (attaining crash). -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 10:05, Feb. 28 2008 CST<br />
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::I've encountered this bug myself with General Stores, actually, not just Plasma Defense(which I never build). EDIT: Some quick tests seem to show that there's a chance the game will crash any time two base facilities are done at the same time, regardless of whether they're in the same base or not or if they're the same facility.(although it seems to happen MUCH more in the event they're in different bases.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:13, 28 February 2008 (PST)<br />
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== Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested ==<br />
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Just to note that I have positively tested and replicated the bugs listed under the new(ish) section [[Known Bugs#Soldier Recruiting Bugs|Soldier Recruiting Bugs]]. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:08, 19 March 2008 (PDT)<br />
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==Floater Medic Bug==<br />
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I have not thus far encountered the Floater Medic Bug; in fact, Floater Medics are often used to fill up my Rogue Gallery with interrogations. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:50, 24 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
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Strange, it would always occur in my version. I don't remember where I got it from, but I<br />
know it was a download from the internet. Using the XCom Hack v2.5, I viewed the alien in<br />
the Alien Containment edit. I now have Type (race):____, and a Rank: Soldier for the <br />
Floater Medic. It might just be corruption, but I do not have the resources to look into<br />
it. [[User:Muton commander|Muton commander]] 19:24, 12 May 2008 (Pacific Time Zone)<br />
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I've never encountered it either. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 07:47, 23 July 2009 (EDT)<br />
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==Strength Overflow==<br />
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During one of my games with TFTD I noticed a really annoying thing happen during battles.<br />
As my troops rose up the 'stat.' ladder they got better and better (as you'd expect), until they hit about 50 strentgh and completely lost the ability to throw anything.<br />
Even trying to throw something tiny like a grenade or flare into the adjacent tile resulted in the 'Out of Range' message being displayed.<br />
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Anyone come across this before?<br />
This was in TFTD CE.<br />
[[User:Tifi|Tifi]] 07:55, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
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:This is fairly well documented. The pathfinding algorithm for throwing objects will balk if anything is in the way of the throw and refuse to allow you to throw. What's happening is that your soldiers have become so strong that their throws are intercepting the 'ceiling' of the Battlescape(the top of L3), and as such the game thinks that the throw is blocked(because in order for the throw to complete, the object would have to be tossed up to the nonexistant L4). There's two ways around this:<br />
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:The Normal Way: Try shorter throws, throwing from lower heights, or throwing while kneeling. Beyond that, possibly get some new troops.<br />
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:The Sneaky Way: Manually edit the Strength scores of your soldiers in [[SOLDIER.DAT]] so that they're back to a usable strength level. If you set "Initial Strength" (offset 46 decimal or 2E hex) to 0 and "Strength Improvement" (offset 57 decimal or 39 hex) to a value of 50, you can permanently lock the soldiers at 50 strength. (You can lock them higher than that if you so choose, but not lower.<br />
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:Other than this, there's no workarounds I can think of offhand. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 08:10, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
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:: There's normally no problem with the max level of 70 in open settings. However TFTD has a lot of low ceilings such as in the shipping lane missions and colonies, and the lower ceilings impairs your throwing quite a bit. In addition to shorter throws/kneeling, try moving out from under any overhangs if there is one just above you. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 12:33, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
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== Bug not listed: Sticking your head through the ceiling ==<br />
This is something I just discovered: When you step on a small object inside of a building your soldier sticks his/her head through the ceiling and can see what's upstairs. You can even see the soldiers head coming out of the floor and that soldiers can shoot aliens upstairs. When I did this the alien I saw/shot was facing the other way, but I guess you could get shot if the alien was facing you. [[User:RedNifre|RedNifre]] 17:34, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
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:That's not listed under "Bugs" because it's covered under "Exploits", right here: [[Exploiting_Collison_Detection#See_Through_A_Ceiling]] [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:26, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
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:: I don't know if it was ever covered anywhere, but there's this neat trick that might sound similar to the walk-through-'wall object'-wall trick except that it involves your unit climbing slopes. They'll appear as though they've gone up a level, but are actually not on that level. They only visually appear to be there, but are really still on the bottom level. <br />
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:: It happens a lot when walking up the desert or forest slopes. I think the trick involves standing on ground level, and then ordering the unit to 'move' into the hill rather than setting the waypoint while on level 1. The soldier will move up the slope and perhaps stop on the slope or even reach the top of the slope, but will still appear when you're only viewing the ground map layer. The soldier is really still on the ground level, but will have elevation offset. <br />
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:: One really interesting way of using this trick is in the mountain region. If you can find a cliff face and a low hill nearby, you can literally have your soldier scale the cliff by standing the soldier on the hill, and then walking towards the cliff. It's ridiculous, but your soldier never quite reaches the top of the cliff tiles, so ends up walking up a slope. <br />
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:: On a side note, standing at the top of the ramp of the Skyranger is the same as standing on ground level - you're only offset a bit. This means that smoke on level 1 and the sides of the Skyranger will not provide protection when you're at the top of the ramp. <br />
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:: On another related note in relation: In TFTD (doesn't happen a lot in UFO), you might find it difficult to toss grenades onto underwater slopes. To remedy this, raise the level up by one. It might look like you're tossing at air(and you are), but it'll get the grenade where you want it. Odd, but true. I must remember to put this in the grenade explanation section. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:11, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
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== Base Defence bug that causes a crash? ==<br />
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Does anyone know about a bug in a base defence mission that causes the game to crash? The game keeps crashing on the 4th or 5th alien turn.<br />
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:I've encountered that myself, but it should be noted that overall, X-COM is not the most stable game and is prone to crashing often at anytime. The differences between the hardware it was designed for and the hardware we're running it on cannot be helping matters at all; it's really a small miracle it even runs without an emulator in the first place(I've got games from 1999 that will bluescreen my machine instantly). As such, I'm not sure it's worth noting as a bug, since it's a 'game feature'(albeit a detrimental one). In any case, what're you doing letting the aliens attack you anyways? ;) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:33, 18 July 2008 (PDT)<br />
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== Sources for a DOS4GW transplant ==<br />
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I was specifically thinking of the LucasArts Dark Forces demo, but I half-recall the actual source I used when testing that ~1999 was Id's DOOM. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 16:03, 7 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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== Phantom Carried Casualty ==<br />
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You are carrying an unconscious soldier in one hand, and the soldier dies of his/her wounds. The dead soldier remains visible on the "left hand / right hand object" battlescape display, but is no longer visible in the inventory display. The problem can be fixed by moving another object into the same hand. <br />
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I've seen this bug with UFO Extender by [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] - possibly might be something to do with his manipulation of the inventory screen, rather than a general bug. I believe I've also seen this with other objects that were being carried in the hands, disappearing from the Inventory screen, but I'm not sure. I don't think it's an item limit bug, as XcomUtil shows 40 item slots free. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:58, 21 September 2008 (PDT)<br />
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== Civilians As Enemies to MC'd Aliens ==<br />
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I ran across this issue a few times and just wondered if you guys experienced this. I MC'd a part of a Reaper (I always do the lower left for large aliens) on a Terror Site, then moved it a few squares. It suddenly stopped dead in it's tracks and then the alien spotted indicator increased by 1. When I clicked on the indicator to see where the enemy unit was, it brought me to L2 of the large apartment complex. However, nothing was there. When I sent a Flying-Suited soldier up there to peek in the window (eeek! A peeping tom!) he saw a female civilian standing there. This type of problem has happened numerous times to me so it's not a once-off thing. Maybe it's a LOS issue? Or maybe an alien indicator problem? Or a combination of the two? Don't know, but I'm curious if you guys have seen it. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 23:40, 19 December 2008 (CST)<br />
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:There are a lot of major issues with MC'ing 4 square aliens. One of them being that you could accidentally MC an alien far off in the corner of the map, IIRC? Anyhow, maybe you should have tried MC'ing all 4 squares of the reaper and see if that changed things. -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]<br />
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The long-range MC of other aliens when Mind-Controlling large aliens is only present in Terror From The Deep, due to a workaround to try and resolve the earlier bugs(and exploits) associated with controlling one square of a large unit at the time. In TFTD, successfully MC'ing part of a Large unit will also grant you control of the next three units in UNITPOS.DAT, in order. If you didn't MC the upper left portion of the large unit(the first UNITPOS entry for any large unit), you can potentially wind up in control of other aliens. So this doesn't apply to UFO. As for Zombie's issue, never seen it. And finally...Jasonred, on Talk pages, please indent your statement with colons so it differentiates from other people's comments, and sign your posts with 4 ~'s, like I will now do. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:42, 19 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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==Elerium Base Bug==<br />
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Jasonred: This bug has long since been known about. Elerium units on the Battlescape can be picked up by shooting away the power source; this one item counts as 50 units, and as such ANY elerium item spawned on any Battlescape counts as 50 Elerium. This issue with your own Elerium spawning as collectable loot in a Base Defense mission only occurs in older DOS versions, and is at the whim of the 80 item limit. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:55, 18 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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:Base defense does not seem to follow the 80 item limit in that DOS version. There are a lot of bugs that have long been known about. However this one was not included in the ufopedia for some reason.<br />
:Also, the main thing about this bug is that it does not potentially double your elerium stores. It potentially multiplies them 50 times.<br />
:... First time this happened to me, I was pretty flabbergasted. Here I was being conservative with my limited Elerium, refraining from blowing up UFOs when possible, when I perform a base defense and gain 3000 Elerium from it. Holy spit. -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]<br />
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Alright, my error. Thanks for clarifying. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:42, 19 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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==HWP Fusion Bomb and SWS PWT Displacer Ammo Manufacturing Cost Bug==<br />
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At a cost of $15000, 400 Tech hours, 5 Zrbite, and 8 Aqua Plastics, this is the exact same cost as the HWP Fusion Bomb from X-COM EU, converted over to the equivalent TFTD resources. As such, it shouldn't be counted as a bug, since it is clearly what Mythos intended. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 09:55, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
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:Hmm, in that case maybe it should be treated as a generic game engine issue and not a TFTD specific issue - but I still think it's a design error. Can you think of any logical reason why the SWS/HWP version of the ammo should be more expensive (in cost and in materials) than both the craft ammo and the (more powerful) personal ammo? It makes no logical sense. Hence I think it's a design error. Nothing can be inferred from the fact it's unchanged from XCOM-EU, that doesn't imply any deliberate decision. It could just be the replication of an original error in XCOM-EU. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 11:17, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
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:: I can think of a logical reason to justify this: X-Com doesn't understand the technology as well as the aliens do (which is obvious, given the length of time each side has known the tech). Handheld Blaster/Blaster Bombs are just a copy of the alien design and therefor relatively cheap and efficient, but that can't be mounted on a turret. So X-Com has to make a new design, and they obviously didn't do that good a job as the aliens would have done. This explains Tank/Plasma being weaker than Heavy Plasma too. (Why is FBL Craft ammo cheaper than the tank ammo though? Maybe X-Com gave up on/simplified the guidance system and made it just a "dumb" cannon shell/torpedo instead which doesn't have multiple waypoints? Or maybe they just did a better job there?). [[User:Cesium|Cesium]] 04:07, 25 November 2009 (EST)<br />
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:Whilst we discuss it, I'll park my original text in here:<br />
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* ''Displacer/PWT ammo cost bug - at over $100,000 total cost per round, the ammunition for this SWS weapon is far more expensive to manufacture (both in money and rare materials) than the equivalent ammo for the Aquanaut-carried Disruptor Pulse Launcher, or the craft-based Pulse Wave Torpedo, despite being less powerful than either. This would seem to be a design mistake.''<br />
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See Also [[Talk:Displacer/PWT]]<br />
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:: I don't like the higher cost either, but I think it's a tradeoff of expense and quality for the convenience of portability. Sort of like an MP3 player to the gramophone... or maybe that's not a good comparison. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 13:43, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
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A better comparison might be a desktop computer to a laptop. As a general rule, laptops are more expensive, but a similarly priced desktop gives you more power. Desktops are cheaper and offer power, laptops are more expensive and offer portability(though the gap is rapidly narrowing). [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:49, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
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:I think those are good analogies. But they don't apply in this case. To continue your analogies: We are paying mainframe prices for a clunky desktop that has only laptop processing power, and we're buying a mainframe for desktop prices. The vehicle version ("desktop") - is ''less'' portable and ''less'' powerful than the personal version (DPL = "laptop"), ''less'' capable than the craft version ("mainframe") - and costs ''more'' than either of the others in total cash and in materials. In particular, it makes no sense that the small missiles on the SWS use up ''more'' of both Zrbite and Aqua Plastics than the Craft version. Do we really think it's logical that a tactical battlefield round, less powerful than its man-carried equivalent, takes more explosive and structural material to produce than both the more powerful man-carried version and also more than the air-to-air round that has 60km range and can take down a major alien combat craft? There is a clearly perverse bang-per-buck here, on every measure. My sincere belief is that this was an original mistake in the XCOM-EU engine that got copied into TFTD as well. The craft round should have the higher base price, but the material requirements that are currently assigned to the SWS/HWP round. It's debatable whether the SWS/HWP rounds should be more expensive than the man-carried rounds. But what I don't think is debatable is that is not logical for the SWS/HWP rounds to be more expensive than the craft rounds. It's clearly a mistake. Even in game balance terms, the only thing the HWP/SWS rounds have going for them is conserving "80-Item Limit" space, which I severely doubt was ever a game design consideration since it's just an awkward programming compromise. Any advantage inherent in the HWP/SWS is already reflected in the very high platform cost - there is no need to inflate the ammo costs as well. The bottom line is that a round for a (mini-)tank does not cost more, does not use more materials, than the same type of round for a long range anti-aircraft weapon that has much greater damage capacity and penetrating capacity. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:35, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
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I'm going to add this to the bug list now. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 16:06, 25 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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:Still don't think this is a bug though. Just because it's more expensive to manufacture than the hand-held or craft-mounted ammo, it doesn't mean the stats are wrong. Perhaps the programmers wanted to balance the tactical portion of the game a little more by making the ammo cost more for tanks. It doesn't have to be logical to be intended. Now if you had proof which said that the ammo was supposed to cost less but the stats were wrong, then yes, I'd agree. So if you boil it all down it comes to a disparate logic issue, not a bug.--[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:31, 25 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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::I have to side with Zombie here. While the ammo may be disproportionately expensive, by the definition used on the rest of the page for bug, it doesn't fit. All the other bugs are errors in program logic or function or routines that are unintentional problems with the game, most of which are not warned of ahead of time. The ammo for the tank costs exactly what is listed and operates entirely as intended, whereas the rest of the bugs are not intended game features. Even if the numbers were entered wrong, that would be a data entry error, not a program bug. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:28, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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:If it was a data entry error, I'd consider that a type of bug... assuming we had proof of the goof so to speak. LOL. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 00:49, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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:: It feels too specific an entry to be a data entry error. <br />
<br />
:: I'm reminded of the high explosive. I know, I know - it's not an exact parallel to the FBL issue. A High Explosive is practically two grenades. Double weight, double bulk. Slightly above two times the damage. However, it costs five times the price of a standard grenade. Even though you're paying more for not-as-much, I don't think that could be considered a bug. A rip off, yes, but not a bug. <br />
<br />
:: Here's a thought: Think about the immediate benefits each of the two controversial ammo types give back to you. Aircraft ammo = activity points. Tank ammo = loot. Yes, I know that aircraft ammo also generate crash sites, but you still have the ground combat to contend with. <br />
<br />
:: One other thought: With careful management of your ammo, you'll probably never spend any elerium on the handheld version's ammo. Could it be the handheld that's really at issue here rather than the others? In the end I feel that it doesn't really matter. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:38, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I'm with Zombie that a data entry error is a bug (we have other examples), but also agree some proof is probably needed. And I agree with NKF that in the scheme of things, it doesn't really matter much. I don't think the HE pack is a good comparison (though the HE pack should be heavier) as it's reasonable to pay disprortionately more to get additional power at the same tech level. The fusion weapons are a case of paying more to actually get ''less'' power. I am not bothered by the handheld vs vehicle balance, not least because the game generally makes handheld weapons better than their vehicle equivalents, so I can accept that as an across-the-board design decision. <br />
<br />
: I can also see a game balance argument ''if'' we believe that Fusion Tank ammo is more of an overall game-winning weapon than craft Fusion Bombs. But I'm not sure I agree with that statement. And even if it's true, and there's a game balance argument (in which case it would apply equally to handheld Fusion launchers), it's still illogical. The less powerful, battlefield warhead should not cost massively more in exotic materials than the much more powerful air to air warhead that brings down Battleships. I agree though that just because it's illogical does not prove it's a bug (i.e. unintended). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 07:48, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
Ok we more or less seem to be in agreement that this isn't a bug, but it is very confusing/illogical. Maybe we can shift the "bug" text from the article page and roll that into the [[Hovertank/Launcher]] and [[Displacer /P. W. T.]] pages now. Feel free to combine any text from the discussion above if necessary. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 09:22, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Unless we can ''prove'' it's a data entry error (unlikely), how about calling it an "Anomaly" instead of a bug? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 10:59, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
Looks like plain old game imbalance to me.<br />
The way I see it, Hovertank Plasma and Launcher were meant to be stronger. Much much stronger. Let's look at Tank Cannon, Launcher and Laser. The logic is that it's a tank mounted weapon, so the tank can carry a much larger and more powerful version of the same weapon, right?<br />
It's pretty stupid that a Hovertank Plasma is weaker than the Heavy Plasma... you could just mount a Heavy Plasma on a Hovertank and get them exactly equal. In fact, I suspect that the hovertanks were ALSO meant to have more powerful weapons than the man-portable versions.<br />
Unfortunatly, the game designers then realised that this made the hovertanks far too powerful. So... the programmers nerfed the power of the hovertank weapons. BUT they forgot to lower the ammo costs. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 11:20, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Well you are opening up a much larger issue there. The Fusion weapons are an anomaly, an inconsistency. But handheld weapons are more powerful than equivalent vehicle weapons across the board, consistently. So that looks like a deliberate design decision, not a mistake. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:33, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: There are two exceptions to the rule: Tank/Cannon: 60AP vs. Heavy Cannon 56AP. Tank/Laser: 110 Laser vs. Heavy Laser: 85 Laser. The hovertank\plasma only differs by a measly 5 (an extra 0 - 10 damage, which means a lot vs. UFO inner hull armour). I guess the trend here was to moderate the area effect tank strengths. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:22, 26 February 2009 (CST) <br />
<br />
I'd have to agree with you there Spike. This wasn't a mistake, however odd it may seem. It was a deliberate attempt to try and balance the game. Below is a table I created ages ago for my (now defunct) strategy guide detailing the HWP's and what handheld weapon corresponds to it. When you stick them side-by-side, it really becomes apparent that the programmers were trying to base the HWP weapons off the handheld weapons somewhat. The only thing that doesn't follow a nice and distinct scheme is the damage. That's what is the clincher. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:26, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br><br />
<table {{StdCenterTable}} class="sortable"><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left" width="150">Tank Type</th><th width="70">DAM</th><th width="80">Snap</th><th width="90">Aimed</th><th width="90">Aimed</th><th width="80">Snap</th><th width="70">DAM</th><th align="right" width="140">Handheld</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Tank/Cannon</th><td>60</td><td>60%</td><td>90%</td><td>90%</td><td>60%</td><td>56<sup>1</sup></td><th align="right">Heavy Cannon</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Rocket Launcher</th><td>85</td><td>55%</td><td>115%</td><td>115%</td><td>55%</td><td>87.5<sup>2</sup></td><th align="right">Rocket Launcher</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Laser Cannon</th><td>110</td><td>50%</td><td>85%</td><td>84%</td><td>50%</td><td>85</td><th align="right">Heavy Laser</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Hovertank/Plasma</th><td>110</td><td>85%</td><td>100%</td><td>100%</td><td>86%</td><td>80</td><th align="right">Plasma Rifle</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Hovertank/Launch</th><td>140</td><td>--%</td><td>120%</td><td>120%</td><td>--%</td><td>200</td><th align="right">Blaster Launcher</th></tr> <br />
</table><br />
<sup>1</sup>AP rounds.<br><br />
<sup>2</sup>Average between the Small and Large Rocket.<br />
<br />
<br />
: Hold up! Tank rounds do 60AP. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:22, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
So what's wrong? The table says 60 for the Tank/Cannon and 56 for HC-AP. Those are correct, no? --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 23:41, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Sorry, didn't realise it was two tables side by side (or rather mirrored). Eyes only noticed the left side of the table. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:53, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: If the Hovertank Launcher did 200 damage, or worse if the Hovertank Launcher did EVEN MORE damage than the Blaster Launcher... that would make them easily the most deadly things on the map. As it is, the hovertank launcher is already pretty overpowered, even with 140 power.<br />
<br />
== DOS4GW - What the heck is it? ==<br />
<br />
It's been ages since I had to remember this stuff, so those who remember clearer than I do, forgive me if my descriptions aren't accurate. Hopefully the general idea will come across. <br />
<br />
Back in ye olde days of computere gamynge - and where there were more E's to go around, memory handling was a tricky beast to handle. Computer memory is divided into several different categories. Conventional, extended and I think expanded. I might be jumbling the terminologies for the last two a bit. Doesn't matter - memory was just cut up into small segments. The two most common memory types to PCs at the time were pretty small but were readily available. The third one - the most expandable (aka the chip with its massive 4 Megs of RAM you just spent your whole month's allowance on!), wasn't as easy to get at. <br />
<br />
To get access to the higher memory that was available to the computer, special memory handlers had to be used. Drivers like HIMEM, emm386, etc were used. <br />
<br />
DOS4GW is one such handler that lets the game access the computer's available expanded memory. Lots of games that came out at the time use this. Doom, Duke Nukem 3d, Syndicate, Ultima Underworld, X-Com UFO/TFTD, etc. LOTS of games. Any time you ran a game from the dos console and you saw the Dos4GW message flash by briefly it would be assisted by it (well, it stayed on the screen for ages back when processors were slower!). <br />
<br />
It took the hassle out of memory handling and let the game access the available memory on the computer as one big flat block of memory to play with. <br />
<br />
So what was meant in the article was to simply replace the dos4gw.exe with a more up-to-date version from another game. I think the way to tell its version was just in the message that it displayed. You can just run the dos4gw.exe file in a console window. It'll give an error, but the message it shows will indicate its version. UFO 1.4 uses Dos4gw 1.95, for example. <br />
<br />
-[[User:NKF|NKF]] 01:22, 6 March 2009 (CST)<br />
:DOS4GW also switched the processor from 16bit to 32bit mode. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 13:58, 6 March 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
== Clipping ==<br />
I have a new bug. Its harmless. I have a savegame (EU CE - modified game) which has a sectoid within another sectoid. In the alien turn, one secturd walked off the roof and dropped down <s>onto</s> into another. (I guess there DNA is indentical afterall, so they 'become one' with the world). If you want the savegame (superhuman edited using UFOloader, UFO Mod v1, xcomed, Khor Chin WeapEdit v0.1) drop me a request on the my page somewhere. [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]] 01:40, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Not something many would encounter, but definitely something that can happen. Units can occupy the same physical space, but the game cannot display them all. It'll only draw one of them. Actually saw this effect happen back in the early days of XComutil when it gained the ability to manually add new aliens into a battlescape. It did this by slotting them into the same spaces occupied by existing aliens. Then the fun would happen when you saw a couple of Mutons suddenly walk out of a sectoid. Not sure how the game determines who gets hurt when struck by a bullet. May very well depend on the order they are stored in the unitpos.dat file. <br />
<br />
: There are a couple of ways you can replicate this in-game, but I can only provide theories on how you could do it. Such as shooting the ceiling above you and letting the unit drop through, or moving a tank off a ledge and getting its non-primary segments land directly on top of another unit. By the way, the rear end of tanks get stuck in walls if you attempt to move north or east off any ledges. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:18, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Ok, so as long as others know about this, then all is good. I had never seen it and was doing alot of head scratching until I shot the alien.<br />
<br />
== Berserk HWP crashes the game ==<br />
In the article page it mentions that aliens which go berserk with their integrated weapons will crash the game. This is only true for Mind Controlled aliens (or units under X-COM control) - alien controlled units which go berserk do not crash the game. I tested an MC'd Celatid just now and it doesn't crash the game either, though it doesn't immediately go berserk - it waits another turn for some odd reason. Someone want to check this to verify my results? --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:31, 27 December 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== 80-items limit on CE edition ==<br />
<br />
I have the feeling that the 80-items limit does not apply to the CE edition and is instead a 110-items limit (at least during base defence). Can anyone confirm? [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 16:24, 24 February 2010 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I believe this limit was increased for TFTD. Maybe it was also increased for the CE edition of UFO, and only ever applied to the DOS edition of UFO?? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:03, 11 March 2010 (EST)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Game_Editors&diff=33604Talk:Game Editors2011-05-11T02:25:37Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>Hi, there are so many mods out there, I have been wondering which to install and in what order, to get my game modified?<br />
<br />
I actually have 3 problems: 1. The scroll speed is far too fast, even when I set scroll speed to 1. What mods or methods should I use to make EU playable? (TFTD seems to work just fine for some reason)<br />
2. I'd like to try avoiding the game crashing every now and then bug.<br />
3. I would like to avoid the base disjoint bug. I can avoid this by using XcomUtils RunXcom.bat, but then the speed automatically goes too fast. Sigh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:55, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
For 1. and 3. use Ufo Extender, open Ufo Extender.ini in editor and set Tactical Scroll=1 and<br />
Base Disjoint=1 in the Bug fix section. You may find other bugfixes useful as well. For 2. there is no obvious help other than saving a lot. --[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 21:05, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Wowee. Thanks. I'll give it a shot, hopefully it doesn't conflict with Xcumutil or something. BTW, does anyone know whether the Steam version crashes? Or did they introduce the fix they found for TFTD? <br />
:Edit: Darnit, just tried it out and UFO Extender seems to have garbled graphics during the intro, geoscape, etc etc. Sigh. And, yes, I did change Video Pitch=1.<br />
:Edit: Weird. It appears that running the game without any loader at all seems to result in working graphics, but using Extender garbles the graphics. How strange...<br />
:Edit: Also. xcomutil refuses to be compliant with ufo extender. huh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 21:27, 10 May 2011 (EDT)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Game_Editors&diff=33603Talk:Game Editors2011-05-11T02:14:05Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>Hi, there are so many mods out there, I have been wondering which to install and in what order, to get my game modified?<br />
<br />
I actually have 3 problems: 1. The scroll speed is far too fast, even when I set scroll speed to 1. What mods or methods should I use to make EU playable? (TFTD seems to work just fine for some reason)<br />
2. I'd like to try avoiding the game crashing every now and then bug.<br />
3. I would like to avoid the base disjoint bug. I can avoid this by using XcomUtils RunXcom.bat, but then the speed automatically goes too fast. Sigh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:55, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
For 1. and 3. use Ufo Extender, open Ufo Extender.ini in editor and set Tactical Scroll=1 and<br />
Base Disjoint=1 in the Bug fix section. You may find other bugfixes useful as well. For 2. there is no obvious help other than saving a lot. --[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 21:05, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Wowee. Thanks. I'll give it a shot, hopefully it doesn't conflict with Xcumutil or something. BTW, does anyone know whether the Steam version crashes? Or did they introduce the fix they found for TFTD? <br />
:Edit: Darnit, just tried it out and UFO Extender seems to have garbled graphics during the intro, geoscape, etc etc. Sigh. And, yes, I did change Video Pitch=1. <br />
:Edit: Also. xcomutil refuses to be compliant with ufo extender. huh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 21:27, 10 May 2011 (EDT)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Game_Editors&diff=33602Talk:Game Editors2011-05-11T02:08:35Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>Hi, there are so many mods out there, I have been wondering which to install and in what order, to get my game modified?<br />
<br />
I actually have 3 problems: 1. The scroll speed is far too fast, even when I set scroll speed to 1. What mods or methods should I use to make EU playable? (TFTD seems to work just fine for some reason)<br />
2. I'd like to try avoiding the game crashing every now and then bug.<br />
3. I would like to avoid the base disjoint bug. I can avoid this by using XcomUtils RunXcom.bat, but then the speed automatically goes too fast. Sigh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:55, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
For 1. and 3. use Ufo Extender, open Ufo Extender.ini in editor and set Tactical Scroll=1 and<br />
Base Disjoint=1 in the Bug fix section. You may find other bugfixes useful as well. For 2. there is no obvious help other than saving a lot. --[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 21:05, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Wowee. Thanks. I'll give it a shot, hopefully it doesn't conflict with Xcumutil or something. BTW, does anyone know whether the Steam version crashes? Or did they introduce the fix they found for TFTD? <br />
:Edit: Darnit, just tried it out and UFO Extender seems to have garbled graphics during the intro, geoscape, etc etc. Sigh.<br />
:Edit: Also. xcomutil refuses to be compliant with ufo extender. huh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 21:27, 10 May 2011 (EDT)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Game_Editors&diff=33601Talk:Game Editors2011-05-11T01:59:19Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>Hi, there are so many mods out there, I have been wondering which to install and in what order, to get my game modified?<br />
<br />
I actually have 3 problems: 1. The scroll speed is far too fast, even when I set scroll speed to 1. What mods or methods should I use to make EU playable? (TFTD seems to work just fine for some reason)<br />
2. I'd like to try avoiding the game crashing every now and then bug.<br />
3. I would like to avoid the base disjoint bug. I can avoid this by using XcomUtils RunXcom.bat, but then the speed automatically goes too fast. Sigh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:55, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
For 1. and 3. use Ufo Extender, open Ufo Extender.ini in editor and set Tactical Scroll=1 and<br />
Base Disjoint=1 in the Bug fix section. You may find other bugfixes useful as well. For 2. there is no obvious help other than saving a lot. --[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 21:05, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Wowee. Thanks. I'll give it a shot, hopefully it doesn't conflict with Xcumutil or something. BTW, does anyone know whether the Steam version crashes? Or did they introduce the fix they found for TFTD? <br />
:Edit: Darnit, just tried it out and UFO Extender seems to have garbled graphics during the intro, geoscape, etc etc. Sigh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 21:27, 10 May 2011 (EDT)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Game_Editors&diff=33600Talk:Game Editors2011-05-11T01:58:58Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>Hi, there are so many mods out there, I have been wondering which to install and in what order, to get my game modified?<br />
<br />
I actually have 3 problems: 1. The scroll speed is far too fast, even when I set scroll speed to 1. What mods or methods should I use to make EU playable? (TFTD seems to work just fine for some reason)<br />
2. I'd like to try avoiding the game crashing every now and then bug.<br />
3. I would like to avoid the base disjoint bug. I can avoid this by using XcomUtils RunXcom.bat, but then the speed automatically goes too fast. Sigh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:55, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
For 1. and 3. use Ufo Extender, open Ufo Extender.ini in editor and set Tactical Scroll=1 and<br />
Base Disjoint=1 in the Bug fix section. You may find other bugfixes useful as well. For 2. there is no obvious help other than saving a lot. --[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 21:05, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Wowee. Thanks. I'll give it a shot, hopefully it doesn't conflict with Xcumutil or something. BTW, does anyone know whether the Steam version crashes? Or did they introduce the fix they found for TFTD? <br />
:: Edit: Darnit, just tried it out and UFO Extender seems to have garbled graphics during the intro, geoscape, etc etc. Sigh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 21:27, 10 May 2011 (EDT)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Game_Editors&diff=33599Talk:Game Editors2011-05-11T01:56:09Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>Hi, there are so many mods out there, I have been wondering which to install and in what order, to get my game modified?<br />
<br />
I actually have 3 problems: 1. The scroll speed is far too fast, even when I set scroll speed to 1. What mods or methods should I use to make EU playable? (TFTD seems to work just fine for some reason)<br />
2. I'd like to try avoiding the game crashing every now and then bug.<br />
3. I would like to avoid the base disjoint bug. I can avoid this by using XcomUtils RunXcom.bat, but then the speed automatically goes too fast. Sigh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:55, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
For 1. and 3. use Ufo Extender, open Ufo Extender.ini in editor and set Tactical Scroll=1 and<br />
Base Disjoint=1 in the Bug fix section. You may find other bugfixes useful as well. For 2. there is no obvious help other than saving a lot. --[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 21:05, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Wowee. Thanks. I'll give it a shot, hopefully it doesn't conflict with Xcumutil or something. BTW, does anyone know whether the Steam version crashes? Or did they introduce the fix they found for TFTD? <br />
:: Edit: Darnit, just tried it out and UFO Extender seems to have garbled graphics during the intro, geoscape, etc etc. Sigh.<br />
<br />
[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 21:27, 10 May 2011 (EDT)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Game_Editors&diff=33598Talk:Game Editors2011-05-11T01:27:29Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>Hi, there are so many mods out there, I have been wondering which to install and in what order, to get my game modified?<br />
<br />
I actually have 3 problems: 1. The scroll speed is far too fast, even when I set scroll speed to 1. What mods or methods should I use to make EU playable? (TFTD seems to work just fine for some reason)<br />
2. I'd like to try avoiding the game crashing every now and then bug.<br />
3. I would like to avoid the base disjoint bug. I can avoid this by using XcomUtils RunXcom.bat, but then the speed automatically goes too fast. Sigh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:55, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
For 1. and 3. use Ufo Extender, open Ufo Extender.ini in editor and set Tactical Scroll=1 and<br />
Base Disjoint=1 in the Bug fix section. You may find other bugfixes useful as well. For 2. there is no obvious help other than saving a lot. --[[User:Kyrub|kyrub]] 21:05, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Wowee. Thanks. I'll give it a shot, hopefully it doesn't conflict with Xcumutil or something. BTW, does anyone know whether the Steam version crashes? Or did they introduce the fix they found for TFTD? [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 21:27, 10 May 2011 (EDT)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Game_Editors&diff=33596Talk:Game Editors2011-05-10T22:55:29Z<p>Jasonred: Created page with "Hi, there are so many mods out there, I have been wondering which to install and in what order, to get my game modified? I actually have 3 problems: 1. The scroll speed is far t..."</p>
<hr />
<div>Hi, there are so many mods out there, I have been wondering which to install and in what order, to get my game modified?<br />
<br />
I actually have 3 problems: 1. The scroll speed is far too fast, even when I set scroll speed to 1. What mods or methods should I use to make EU playable? (TFTD seems to work just fine for some reason)<br />
2. I'd like to try avoiding the game crashing every now and then bug.<br />
3. I would like to avoid the base disjoint bug. I can avoid this by using XcomUtils RunXcom.bat, but then the speed automatically goes too fast. Sigh. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 18:55, 10 May 2011 (EDT)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Known_Bugs&diff=33595Talk:Known Bugs2011-05-10T20:31:54Z<p>Jasonred: /* Bugs vs Exploits */</p>
<hr />
<div>= Classification etc =<br />
<br />
== Bugs vs Exploits ==<br />
<br />
Could someone comment please on the distinction between a bug and an exploit, and where to put each one? I would guess that a bug is something that undesirable and an exploit "might be" desirable, if you want to cheat. But what about exploits that happen by accident, or bugs that need to be forced to happen? <br />
<br />
I was going to add the Research Rollover bug to the Exploits sections, but they seem to all be under construction. What's the agreed approach?<br />
<br />
[[User:Spike|Spike]] 04:16, 15 March 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
* i think that an exploit is somthing you can trigger and gain an advantage from. a bug may or may not have a known trigger, and does not give an advantage if it does.<br />
: All exploits are bugs, either in implementation or design. When using a bug to gain advantages that bug is used as an exploit (you are exploiting the bug). [[User:FrederikHertzum|FrederikHertzum]] 13:39, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: IMHO, Laser Pistols Gifts to train reactions is an exploit, but it does not involve any bugs. It merely exploits the fact that laser pistols will not penetrate the front armor of Flying Suits. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 16:31, 10 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Bugs vs Limits ==<br />
<br />
''(Discussion continued from [[Talk:Known Bugs#Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested|Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested]])''<br />
<br />
The "Soldier Recruiting Limit" is <b>not</b> a bug, it is a limitation of the game. Therefore, this should be removed from the page. If we want it somewhere else (like a new page such as [[Game Limitations]]), that would be appropriate. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 01:42, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::Not sure that's necessarily the best idea, Zombie, since many of the entries on the Known Bugs article(as well as some entries on the Exploits pages) are limitations of the game engine. On just a brief glance through, the following caught my eye as engine limitations: Manufacturing limit, Storage limit, Purchase limit, 80-item limit, Proximity Grenade limit, Large units not waking up from stun, Interception last shot bug, Alien UFL radar blitz-through bug(Passing through the detection range of a radar before the detection check comes up), Free manufacturing, free wages, UFO Redux, point-scoring with Ctrl-C, permanent MC of chryssalids, Zombie-MC resurrection of agents, alien inventory exploits, anything involved with bad collision detection, extinguishing fire with a Smoke Grenade, and even your personal favorite, denying the aliens access to their own spawn points. So in conclusion, maybe it should just be left as it is; conversely, all of these entries could be kept where they are and also on a Game Limitations page, or we could leave the headers there and link them over to the appropriate topics on Game Limitations. What do you think? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:21, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I agree with AQ (great list of examples by the way - and the Smoke/Fire limit would be another). Many, if not most, of the bugs are "Limitations" but they are logically inconsistent and not what a player would expect to happen: they are imposed by (at best) memory limitations or (at worst) design/programming oversights. I think the easiest thing to do would be to change the title of the page to Known Bugs and Limitations, or put an explanatory note at the beginning of the section to explain that "Bugs" is taken to included "Limitations". [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:16, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
By the strictest sense of meaning, a "bug" is a mistake or error on the programmers part. Limitations imposed <i>by design</i> or memory are not the same creature as the people involved were consciously aware of the decision. I suppose that to the normal player, any type of behavior which is unexpected/unwanted is automatically dumped in the bug category because to them there is no difference. To those of us who study the game files however, the two are unequivalent. Programming oversights, yes, those are bugs.<br />
<br />
Some of those limitations AQ mentions are (to me at least) bugs: free manufacturing, free wages, permanent MC of Cryssies (or actually any alien for that matter), Zombie resurrections and collision detection. Large aliens not waking up from stun is again, a bug. The programmers obviously had some issues when dealing with large units in general and never quite got it right. They made some progress in TFTD by trying to fix mind controlling each section of a large unit, but royally screwed it up by selecting the next 3 entries in UNITPOS.DAT no matter what they pointed to.<br />
<br />
Perhaps it's just my background in logic which makes me want to push for a separate category for limitations. Then again, as long as everything is listed somewhere I'm happy. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 22:06, 9 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Actually, taking a look through the page as a whole there are various other Limits described, and the distinction between Bugs and Limits is made quite rigorously throughout - not just in the Soldier Limits and Bugs section, where the Soldier Recruiting Limit is referred to as a Limit whereas other bugs (such as paying salaries for soldiers you can't recruit) are referred to as Bugs. So we maybe just need to rename the pages "Bugs and Limits" and add an explanatory note on the distinction. From a user point of view, rather than a programmer point of view, a bug is an unexpected (inconsistent or illogical) behaviour, so for that reason I think it makes sense to keep them on the same page but try to ensure they are all correctly classified as Bug or Limit.<br />
<br />
: By the way, it could be hard to absolutely distinguish Bugs from Limits as I suspect there are going to be some grey areas where you would have to second-guess the intentions and decisions of the coders to know for sure if something was a designed-in Limit, or just an oversight (Bug). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 06:50, 10 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::If we distinguish in this manner, I suggest the definition of "Limit" should be, "Something imposed by the game files or engine as a limitation, most likely in context to the capabilites of the then-current personal computer." More succinctly, anything that was done to allow the game to run acceptably on what was then a PC. This would include both the Soldier and 80-Item limits, the spawn limit(40 units per side), Smoke/Fire limit, and some of the others listed. (The Purchase limit was probably more of a convienence for the programmers than anything, but it is clearly an intended feature.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:11, 10 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I would add to this that sometimes a Limit may be imposed as a game design / gameplay decision, rather than in order to conserve a constrained resource in the platform (=PC). Also, I would suggest that ''intended'' Limits are Limits, but ''unintended'' consequences of Limits are Bugs. Obviously, making this distinction involves some guesswork. But I would guess that while the limit on total smoke/fire hexes was an intended Limit (to conserve PC resources), the ability to put out fires with smoke grenades and disperse smoke with IC rounds is probably an unintended consequence of the Limit, and so should probably be considered a Bug. Similarly, Base Defence spawn points are probably an intended limit, but the ability to flood spawn points is an unintended consequence of this, and thus a Bug (and an Exploit). (Spawn points should have been shared out 50/50, not humans-first). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:07, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::The limit on Soldier and Interception craft were probably more of a limit imposed because they capped the file and figured that X-COM wouldn't ever need more than 40 interception craft or 250 soldiers. (And I've never needed that many, case in point.)<br />
<br />
::As for spawns, its actually difficult to take advantage of it in any reasonably established base. X-COM can spawn up to 40 soldiers in a base defense mission(tanks count as 4 soldiers), as a limit of LOC.DAT. Aliens have the same limit. So in order to take advantage of the bug, the base needs 40 or less spawns total. The Access Lift has 8 spawn points, General Stores(weapon-handling) has 11, Living Quarters has 8 more. This is 27 Spawns just getting soldiers in a base and armed. (Although the General Stores can be cut out if you perform the bug properly). Large Radar and HWD have 6 spawns(Small Radar has 2), and Hangar has 15. So overall, the "Spawn prevention" can be hard to take advantage of with all but the smallest bases. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 14:48, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
Just to clarify, X-COM interception craft are not capped at 40 ships. LOC.DAT has a cap of 50 "things" on the geoscape screen at a time. This is shared between X-COM bases, X-COM ships, alien bases, seen or unseen UFO's, terror sites, crash sites, landing sites and waypoints. In a perfect game world with little alien activity and normally constructed bases, the max number of X-COM craft possible is 44: 5 bases with 8 hangars each plus one base with 4 hangars (or any combination thereof). If you illegally modify your base layout with an editor to get rid of the access lift, the max can be increased to 45 ships (9 hangars in 5 bases). Once clogged, all alien activity will cease.<br />
<br />
The base defense limit of 40 units exists because of UNITPOS.DAT which has a cap of 80 entries total (tanks occupy 4 entries in this file). Auto-win missions in a base defense mission by clogging all the spawn points with X-COM units isn't as tough as it sounds, especially if your base is small or doesn't contain hangars. The main thing is getting your full quota of 40 units to spawn (meaning you should try not to have any tanks as they count as 4 units but only occupy one spawn point). This limits the base size to something like 5-6 modules depending on what you build. Still, even having more than 6 modules isn't bad as it forces aliens to spawn intermingled between your troops. With 40 armed guys staring in every direction, you can get positions of all the aliens in the first round and possibly even kill them all (depends on weapons and alien race of course). --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I would say that Limits are the CAUSE of bugs... also, I feel that fire/smoke limit can be called a bug, because a player normally has no way to tell this, other than observation. Whereas the game DIRECTLY and CLEARLY informs you whenever you hit the 80 item or 250 soldier limits, which is more fair. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:22, 23 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
= Specific Bug Discussions =<br />
<br />
== Misc Technical Bug ? ==<br />
<br />
''(The context of this discussion seems to have been lost)''<br />
<br />
This is a technical bug that doesn't happen to everyone and one this article wasn't really meant to chronical - but we won't turn away helping a fellow player if it can't be helped. It's just that there are so many random crash points in this game that it would take far too long to find them all or come up with solutions for them. <br />
<br />
Certainly, the transfer crash can happen to some players, but it's not one that can be reproduced easily. It's just like the random crash that some players get when they research a floater medic. It crashes the game for some of us, but others don't seem to notice it at all. <br />
<br />
It really depends on your hardware and OS setup, whether or not your copy of the game is damaged or your savegame is damaged, etc. <br />
<br />
Does it happen in all games or just this one savegame? <br />
<br />
- [[User:NKF|NKF]] <br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
== "Invisible Muton" bug ==<br />
<br />
Upon shooting repeatedly a Muton, it sometimes plays its "death" animation without sound (as if falling unconscious) and it is no longer displayed in the screen, while remaining visible to my soldiers (I can center the screen and the cursor appears yellow over them). Under this state, they cannot be targeted by Stun Rods. They may play their death animation anytime they get shot, until they truly die, when they emit their characteristic sound and leave a corpse (along with any items carried).<br />
<br />
I'm quite fond of laser weapons, maybe this happens more often with those.<br />
<br />
Also, though I remember experiencing this quite often fighting Mutons, it may happen to any other high health race.--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 02:59, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
Never seen that one myself. Another "unpatched game" thing maybe?<br />
<br />
There's a (very rare) bug that allows your soldiers to live if they become stunned by an explosion that happens to kill them. Sometimes the game will register their death, and THEN register that they've been stunned. In every case I've seen this happen, however, the unit will have such a low amount of health that a single fatal wound will render it dead (again) on the next turn. I have a vague memory that other players may have been able to get a medkit to the scene on time...<br />
<br />
I dunno if that's related to your issue at all (I doubt it, but... meh). I'd advise using a Mind Probe on the alien the next time it happens so you can check the aliens stun/health levels.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure I've seen this with Mutons. Possibly Chrysallids as well, another high health, high armor creature. They were still readily killed by shooting the place they are. Good thought on the MP, BB<br />
<br />
---[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 08:51, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I've been known to have a dying muton(in fire) to spin around and then switch to the female civilian death animation. With the scream and everything. Even got a civilian death registered at the end of the mission. And this didn't just happen once, but on another separate occasion.<br />
<br />
Hmm. shape-shifting reptilians in the game! LOL! Happens alot [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Unusually enough, I once had a sectopod die and then drop a tank corpse. I was using the Lightning at the time for my troop carrier, so you can imagine my surprise. <br />
<br />
Then there was one occasion where a floater dropped a snakeman corpse. Let's not even get into the sort of things the aliens like to stuff themselves with. <br />
<br />
Your invisible alien bug is quite common, although there appears to be many causes for it. I think one involves a full object table when it comes to invisible aliens in bases. But it can also happen in ordinary missions as well. I'm guessing the game may have tried to do something in the wrong order, and sprite information for the unit may have been lost or corrupted along the way. <br />
<br />
Having had an experience where all the chryssalids become invisible in one base defence mission was quite a shocker. I fixed this by saving the game, quitting and then restarting the game. If you ever get an invisible alien again, try this and see if it helps. If it doesn't, well, just keep a careful watch on your map and any alerts that pop up as you play. <br />
<br />
There's a similar but less severe bug where a dead alien will still leave its centre-on-unit alert button, but this goes away shortly after you move or turn. <br />
<br />
- [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
That last bug happens when exploding Cyberdiscs kill nearby Sectoids, doesn't it?--[[User:Trotsky|Trotsky]] 23:56, 2 July 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
This is a pretty easy one. I guess this bug occured on UFO recovery on a battleship, an alien base assault or a base defense mission? As soon as there are too many items on the map, the game saves some item slots for the equipment to be displayed (since it is more valuable and more important to research). This would also make stun weapons lethal if the stunned aliens would vanish. therefore the game has a failsafe if an alien is stunned (or badly wounded and becoming uncontious). The downed alien's stun level is set exactly on its left health points therefore resurrecting it instantly. This cycle is broken when the alien is finally killed. This means if you want to stun an alien in such a situation you have to destroy some items first.<br />
<br />
- by tequilachef (April 4th 2007)<br />
<br />
== Vanishing snakemen ==<br />
<br />
I've known snakemen to become invisible when standing on a hay bale. On the first occassion I had a poor tank getting shot while spending numerous turns looking for it. On the second occasion I had an alien under Psi-control, left it on the hay bale, and couldn't find it next turn. - Egor<br />
<br />
---<br />
<br />
This is not limited to snakemen. Hay bale block visibility quite much when a unit is standing on it. Two possible solutions:<br />
- Destroy the hay before entering<br />
- Shoot at the hay. If it is destroyed any unit on it will become visible (as long as no other bales are blocking the line of sight). You might also hit the enemy directly.<br />
<br />
I Dnt know if the aliens are affected by this diminished sight, too. My guess would be no.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)<br />
<br />
== Blaster Bomb Bug ==<br />
<br />
I'm currently playing through X-com UFO Defense, I have the collectors edition version. I'm in the process of trying to catch a live alien commander and the blaster bomb bug is making this very difficult. If i remember correctly a commander is always in the command center of the the alien bases. The problem is anytime i get close there is always a dude with a blaster launcher up there that tries to kill my troops. When they try to fire it down at me the bug kicks in and they blow up the whole command room and all the aliens in it because they can't figure out how to get the blaster bomb down the grav lift thing in there. This is making it very dificult to actually catch a live commander. Anyone have any ideas for tactics or anything to breach that room without the aliens trying to fire a blaster launcher up there? - eL Hector<br />
<br />
: I can suggest two possible solutions. The first is to wait outside the command room for the alien to move closer to you. If it comes out of the room or if you know it has moved down the lift, you then burst in and stand right next to it to stop it from firing the blaster. This is risky because there could very well be a heavy plasma toting alien in there. The other is to use a small launcher and launch it up at the ceiling near where you think the alien with the blaster is standing. -[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Disappearing Ammunition ==<br />
<br />
I have observed that problem with X-COM 1.2, modded with XCOMUTIL. My stun bombs and heavy rocket missiles, along with clips for the auto cannon went missing.<br />
[[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]<br />
<br />
------<br />
<br />
Just run a test using my 1.4 DOS version with XComUtil but my stun bombs didn't disappear: 30 + 1 back in the base they came from, same number after I went tactical and I dusted-off immediately. Are you running XComUtil with Runxcom.bat or did you simply run Xcusetup?<br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 22:12, 22 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Is it a case of hitting the 80-item limit?--[[User:Ethereal Cereal|Ethereal Cereal]] 12:28, 23 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
------<br />
With runxcomw.bat, as everytime. Apologies, I retested and it seems like I was mistakened, but I could have sworn that I lost them dang stunbombs. Had to manufacture some. I will test some more, using four heavy weapons and seeing whether their ammunition disappears at all. Thanks. [[User:Vagabond|Vagabond]]<br />
<br />
==MC at end = MIA?==<br />
<br />
I am sure I have seen this again recently, where I won a mission with no casualties (I thought), but the last thing I killed was a Commander that had been chain MC'ing a psi-attack-magnet trooper, and that trooper was listed as MIA at the end (presumably because he was on the enemy side at the end of combat). Is this a bug, or is there another way to get MIA's on a completed mission that I might have missed?<br />
<br />
Since then I have been waiting for the leaders to panic at the end before killing them (or waiting for a rare resist), so I can safely exit, but am I being overcautious?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 13:45, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
If the trooper was mind controlled on the turn you killed the last alien it will be listed as MIA. No bug there :) <br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 18:16, 1 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
Huh, why would that happen - your soldier should recover the very next round, why would he go MIA?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Sfnhltb|Sfnhltb]] 18:20, 1 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
Doesn't make sense to me as well but that's how the game works. <br />
<br />
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 15:05, 2 March 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
It seems that regaining control of units under enemy mind control works different for alien and human players. My guess: aliens under human MC are reverted to alien control AFTER THE ALIEN AND BEFORE THE HUMAN TURN while human units under alien control are reverted RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE HUMAN TURN. This explains three different phenomenons:<br />
<br />
- The discussed MIA "bug" (he unit would be returned in the next human turn, but since it never starts it is lost. The mission is still won since no unit with a "genuine alien" marking is left)<br />
<br />
- The fact that a mission is lost when the last human falls under MC while it is not won when this happens to the last standing alien (the aliens get their unit back before their turn starts and therefore have a unit left to pass the "anyone alive?" check, the humans would have no unit left to start a turn with. They WOULD have as soon as the turn starts, but no unit left before turn means bust)<br />
<br />
- The fact that aliens still can see all an MCed human saw at the end of the human turn that follows the MC while this is not vice versa (The MCed human can give information to the alien side before reverted while an MCed alien is reverted too early). The result is that aliens can control a human indefinitely without having any alien seeing him until the MC is disrupted for one turn.<br />
<br />
All confused? Then I did a good job! No seriously, this must be the explanation, I couldn't think of any other way.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 4th, 2007)<br />
<br />
: You're absolutely correct on the first two points. It's a sequence issue - you never get round to recovering the unit before the new turn starts, so you end without any units whatsoever. Makes senses too since the aliens would continue to continue to mind control that same unit over and over indefinitely. <br />
<br />
: The third point however: The aliens don't need to know the location of the last MC'd unit. They know the location of all your troops whether they've seen them or not from the very start. They appear to give you a few turns of grace where they won't attack you outright (unless, from my observation, all your soldiers are incredibly weak). This is evident because all of the aliens will eventually make their way towards the nearest soldier even though their movement pattern may seem semi-random. Also, they know where you are because they can initiate psionic attacks without having seen any of your troops. They generally go after the weakest troops first. <br />
<br />
: Just to add a semi-related point, but from the alien's perspective. If an MC'd alien unit is in the exits when you abort the mission, this alien is not recovered and in fact simply vanishes. Any equipment it was carrying is recovered, unknown artefacts or otherwise. You could possibly think of this as their version of MIA. However, the aliens differ ever so slightly in that if it's the last alien standing and under temporary mind control by the player, the mission doesn't end straight away. But I guess this is only because the player has everything under control, whereas in the other scenario, the Ai is in control. <br />
<br />
: -[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Crash Site in the atlantic ocean ==<br />
<br />
That's right, my game generated a crash site on water. Here are the details:<br />
<br />
- Crash Site a bit southeast of the USA (which was infiltrated a few days before by sectoids, resulting base had already been taken out), but certainly not on land.<br />
<br />
- UFO: battleship, floater, alien harvest<br />
<br />
- Geoscape: 8 X-Com Bases, 1 (known) Alien base, 2 other crash sites, 1 other (known) flying UFO (though almost worldwide decoder coverage), 3 X-Com Crafts out, 1 waypoint<br />
<br />
- Date: January 2000<br />
<br />
- Most Interesting: The Craft that downed the ship was a recently finished Firestorm (first human-alien hybrid craft I had built, I know this is lame for that date. Limited myself on 25 Scientists to improve the challenge) equipped with twin plasma. I had it built and equipped in Antarctica and then transferred to Europe. This base had no Elerium, a fact that enabled me to use the infinite fuel exploit which was in effect when downing the UFO. My craft was only slightly damaged when doing so. The battleship was the first target assigned to the craft, it came directly from my base. <br />
<br />
- When shot down, the UFO was not targetted by any other craft.<br />
<br />
- I had not lost or sold a single craft to that point.<br />
<br />
- When sending a squad to the crash site the game didn't crash but generated a farm land ground combat terrain.<br />
<br />
- I was not able to reproduce the bug from the savegame dated 2 hours before downing the UFO<br />
<br />
Well guys, any intelligent guesses? I still have the savegames (before and after downing)! If you want to have a look, write here.<br />
<br />
- By tequilachef (April 5th 2007)<br />
----<br />
: Well I'm sure you know about crash sites that are near land can sometimes actually be on water, so I'm going to assume that this site is well far away from any land mass. Could it be a weird entry in GEODATA\WORLD.DAT that has a land mass out in the ocean? Also are you sure the game didn't crash? Sometimes when it does it will load the previous mission (and usually 90% are at farm terrain). Are you sure it generated a new map and not load the last one?<br />
:No real guesses but maybe some starting points to look at. I've probably stated some obvious situations you know about and have accounted for, but it never hurts to double check :D<br />
- [[User:Pi Masta|Pi Masta]] 14:23, 5 April 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Inconsistencies in MCing Cyberdiscs and Sectopods ==<br />
<br />
I experienced, that when MCing one quadrant of a large terror unit any action it does only affects this quadrant (especially use of time units). That means, when TUs are up for one part, MC another one and continue firing. This however does not work out when moving the unit while it is not under complete control. The TUs used up by the resulting reaction fire from the rest of the unit is also deducted from the TUs "your" part has left (making it impossible for the controlled parts to return fire). This however only happens under reaction fire, not if "your" part fires on it's own. I don't know if this comes up when uncontrolled parts shoot by themselves in the alien turn, since this is hard to find out.<br />
<br />
: That's because large units literally are made up of four separate units. They only share the same set of general stats (in unitref.dat). Unfortunately the 'under mind control flag' is unique to the four units, not the shared stats! So you in effect have multiple units under different control sharing the same stats. So if you move and it results in a reaction from the unit, it will spend the TUs you're using. <br />
: Successful mind control automatically fills up the unit's TUs, so each mind controlled sector gets to move or attack again until there are no more sectors to mind control. Useful way of turning reapers into long range scouts! <br />
: In TFTD, they attempted to fix this bug, but in fact made it much-much worse! The only way to mind control the unit properly is to control the upper left quadrant. Only! Any other quadrant will result in a partial (clockwise) control, and you may gain control of units other than that unit, or may even get into situations where you gain permanent 'partial control' of a large unit you haven't even sited. Wackiness all around! <br />
<br />
:- [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
== Facility Dismantle Bug ==<br />
<br />
Boba: I've never experienced this bug myself in all my games in the Collectors Edition. It may very well vary from computer to computer. <br />
<br />
-[[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
:I, however, have experienced it. I lost an entire month's worth of playtime because I couldn't solve it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]]<br />
<br />
::Anyone, any ideas on why it might vary from PC to PC? -[[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]<br />
<br />
:::I'd check other factors before blaming a given system. Assuming no mods are being used the most obvious is the order in which you initiated the construction of the modules. Then we've got which one was due to be completed first, and I'm sure there's a few other things to test out. Usually, a player won't cancel in-progress modules on a regular basis, so you wouldn't expect this bug to turn up often. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Easy way to reproduce: build 2 General Stores. Now delete the "second one" (see offset 16-39 in [[BASE.DAT]] for the order). Wait for the first one to complete. It'll crash immediately after the "end of construction" dialog. A fix is available [[User:Seb76#Bug_Fixes | here]]. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 15:52, 22 July 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Manufacturing Limit Bug ==<br />
<br />
Unfortunately, Mike, no you did not get it correct. It is the raw number of hours needed to complete the project, not the projected hours. I discussed this on the X-Com Forums a few months back at the following link: http://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=242027760&st=0&#entry164411<br />
<br />
I did tests at the time in regard to the accuracy of the data given there, but I've lost the results. I'll quickly redo the tests in the next hour or so. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:00, 8 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Tests complete. The breakpoints for every item were exactly where I predicted, regardless of number of engineers assigned. (I ran up a huge queue of items at my dedicated factory base on an old game, and then assigned whatever engineers would fit onto one project at a time, canceling projects as data was confirmed. This is only semi-random, but it serves our purposes.) I did run into a single issue, though. It appears that despite having 5 empty hangars at a (different!) base, the workshop there could not queue up more than 3 of any one craft at a time, thus making this bug impossible to replicate with the Firestorm or Lightning, as you must be producing more than three for the bug to occur. However, it still works with the Avenger. Later, I shall see about constructing a dedicated Hangar base with 7 hangars in order to attempt to replicate the bug. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:33, 8 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Sounds great, Arrow. Why not post a simple example that shows how the problem works. As in, "with 1 Eng and 2 Avengers you might think X, but no, it's Y". And please delete my example. And it's a fine pleasure to meet you! Cool - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]]<br />
<br />
:::When you say the usual resources are used by the "lost" resources, that includes cash, right? It sounds like if you're willing to foot the extra bill [[Buying/Selling/Transferring#Manufacturable_Prices|money/component-wise]], this could be used to build Avengers slightly faster then normal.<br />
<br />
::: The usual time is 34000 hours. Double that and subtract 65535 and you're left with a paltry 2465 hours. Even a single workshop squad of 10 engineers will pull that off in a little over ten days. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 01:53, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Sadly, this exploit doesn't work, because the high bit is stored SOMEWHERE. I lack a hex reader and have no code reading skills to speak of, so I'm a bit limited here. If you set up a Workshop as you described, the game would take all the time for 2 Avengers, all the resources for the same, but in the end only produce 1 Avenger. Meanwhile, I'll run more tests on the resources thing. I could swear it consumes the resources, but I'll double check.<br />
<br />
:::::There is no need to store the high bits if the actual completion condition (assuming adequate money) is "number made is number ordered", which wouldn't reference the hours remaining at all. - [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 01:49, 9 Oct 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::::Tests done; I was unable to replicate the 'disappearing item' trick,(Which I didn't test for last night) even with Avengers! It appears I was wrong; this still counts as a bug, though, because the wraparound is a problem.<br />
<br />
::::Ironic that so much of this discussion centers around Avengers, because that's where I discovered this in the first place! [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:48, 9 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
I'm revisiting XCOM and was working on [[Manufacturing Profitability]]... Arrow, can you (or anyone else) say a little bit more on the Known Bugs page about this [[Known_Bugs#Manufacturing_Limit_Bug]]? It's not clear to me exactly what the bug does, except that it understates hours. Is that all?... does it still take the (non-buggy) amount of time, still use all the same resources, still make the same number, etc.? It sounds like it could be a drastic bug - or is it only a very superficial one, a display bug for the hours? It sounds like you're leaning toward this latter.<br />
<br />
Also on a semi-related note... I could swear I saw much more detailed info on the [[Known_Bugs#Facility_Maintenance_Costs]] issue... IIRC, the incorrect amount that's charged for maintenance, depends on exactly where a facility is in the base. IOW, different "rows" of the base cost different amounts. Could somebody provide a link there, and/or flesh the bug out better?<br />
<br />
Thanks! - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 11:22, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I've actually seen the bug work both ways, but I've only been able to actually replicate the more superficial version of the bug. So the bug report up is about a superficial bug that drastically understates production time. If you wish to make this clearer, you have my blessings. As well, that 'different charging based on location' is dealt with here: http://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Base_Facilities ; however, the table has been broken with the Wikiupgrade, and I lack sufficient knowledge of HTML table code to fix it. But it should be of use to you. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 11:26, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Cool, I fixed [[Talk:Base Facilities]] but also re-organized and expanded [[Base Facilities]] so that it includes that bug in detail, as per Talk... this is an important issue that should be up front. I see that there's a separate [[Maintenance costs]] page, but I can't see having something so important (the maintenance bug explanation) all on its own page (which makes for a rather short page) rather than together with all the rest of the base facility info. If others agree (or don't care), I'll move anything remaining on Maintenance Costs to the Base Facilities page, then delete Maintenance Costs and re-route links. And if somebody does care, then please move my new section to Maintenance Costs, and move all the links, etc. Oh also I put in more words on your Manufacturing Limit Bug - how does it look? - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 16:37, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Looks pretty good, although it'll wrap fully; if you ask for 120000 hours, it won't be displaying 'almost no' time. The way I discovered it was when building two Avengers; I ordered two, paid for two, waited for two...and got one. But as said, haven't managed to repeat it, so until I do, we'll leave it like that. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I just revised and put in your specific example, because it's certainly possible some of us die-hard players will order up more than 1 Avenger at a time - and it's guaranteed it'd be a pain if 1 of them disappeared, laugh. I wasn't sure how concrete you were on that example but now I hear you say, you are sure it happened at least once. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 18:33, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I have a question concerning the manufacturing "bug" which eats a craft in production due to wrap-over of the byte. Arrow (or whoever did the test), did you have a large quantity of craft already built at your bases? If so, I think this bug has more to deal with clogging up [[CRAFT.DAT]]. See, that file has a limit of 50 entries. Each craft takes up one record and each base you have built also consumes one spot. 8 bases allows 42 craft to be housed, while 6 bases allow 44. If you try to buy or manufacture craft once the file is full, nothing shows up in the game even if you have hangar space available. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 19:00, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Huh, I never knew that. I don't see it listed on the Bugs page... I'll stick it in there. I've never approached that number, but some folks might. - [[User:MikeTheRed|MikeTheRed]] 19:07, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I was able to continue building other Avengers after that project, and they appeared correctly, so I do not believe that is the issue. In any event, I have a very bad case of 'archivism' and probably still have the save game and the CRAFT.DAT file around on my system; in fact, I think I was playing it a few days ago. I can see if I can find it and upload it; it created a 'hole' in the Avenger fleet numbers, where Avenger's x and x+2 were built, but x+1 was not. I'll look for it tonight and tomorrow and upload it to the wiki if I find it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 19:10, 8 October 2007 (PDT) EDIT: I found the file; I have 28 Avengers and 1 Skyranger in my employ. All Avenger numbers EXCEPT #2(Avenger-2) are accounted for, and I have not sacked or lost any Avengers. So this is where the hole and 'eaten' Avenger is. If anyone wants the CRAFT.DAT file from this game, I'd be happy to forward it. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:20, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Sure, send it my way and I'll take a look at it. (Might as well send me the whole saved game as I may want to look at the other files too). I have tried to recreate this bug by manufacturing 1, 2 and 3 Avengers at a clip but all of them always show up. Don't know what else I could do to get this problem to crop up. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:32, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:File emailed. On the side, I've tried the same thing, and never been able to repeat the bug. It's been months since the first discovery, so I can't recall whether it was the first or the second Avenger that didn't appear. So maybe it was just a fluke. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:57, 8 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Unconscious Enemy in Equipment Screen ==<br />
<br />
The following happened to me repeatedly over the last few days.<br />
<br />
In the last tactical Mission a live alien has been captured. When now beginning an UFO crash recovery mission this type of alien (same race and rank) appears in the equipment screen before the mission starts, meaning I can give it to any of my soldiers.<br />
If I do so I can store the alien in the skyranger for the duration of the mission and, if it gains consciousness, kill or stun it at the end of it. A pile of equipment without a corpse will be in the UFO, indicating that the stunned alien is not some kind of duplicate but instead has been taken from the aliens of this mission. This is supported by the fact that in those missions the maximum number of crew members has not been surpassed.<br />
If I do not do so the Alien will be placed in the crashed UFO. Whether it is unconscious or not I do not know, but the fact that it is completely disarmed when encountered in the battle suggests that it is.<br />
<br />
So far it seems the following is necessary for the bug to occur:<br />
# An alien has to be captured alive in the last tactical combat<br />
# It has to be of the same race and rank as one of the aliens in the new tactical combat<br />
<br />
So far this only worked...:<br />
# If the new tactical combat was an UFO crash recovery of a medium scout.<br />
# For floaters and mutons<br />
# For soldiers and navigators<br />
# If the alien in the last mission was stunned by normal weapon fire (although I do not think this is important) and not picked up (again, not likely to be important) or destroyed (which would mean it has to be actually captured)<br />
<br />
It seems NOT to depend on the following:<br />
# The type of the last mission (were, so far: Ground assault battleship, crash recovery large scout, base defense)<br />
# Which squad or vessel was involved capturing the alien<br />
# Where it is locked up<br />
# If it has been transferred since capture or not<br />
<br />
Would be interesting to know:<br />
# What happens if the alien in the inventory screen is the only survivor<br />
# If the alien in the invenory screen is one of the aliens randomly killed in the crash or not (it is likely to be one of the killed aliens, so far the equipment piles were always within the UFO)<br />
# If this is not limited on crashed medium scouts: Does this work with terror units? What about large ones?<br />
<br />
Maybe this is related to the proximity grenade bug (transfer of item properties to next tactical combat).<br />
<br />
Additionally, in one of those mission a part of the terrain was not generated correctly. It was in farm terrain (The house on the right square, or north east square, in [[Image:Terrain-cult.gif|this pic]]). The outer wall right to the right window of the southern wall (1st Floor) was missing. Directly outside of the hole was a floor tile. I could walk a soldier through the wall, but he fell right through the tile. Dunno if this has to do with the stunned alien bug.<br />
<br />
Version is collectors edition (the one from abandonia.com).<br />
<br />
----------------<br />
<br />
When a mission starts, the GeoScape engine generates the unit and object tables (in MissDat's [[OBPOSREF.DAT]], [[UNIPOS.DAT]], and [[UNIREF.DAT]]) before "shutting down". The Tactical engine then generates the maps, places the aliens on it, and blows up the UFO (if need be). Whether or not map generation and the subsequent events happen before you equip your soldiers I don't yet know.<br />
<br />
The test would be to check the aforementioned files to see if they contain an unconcious alien, and/or the body.<br />
<br />
Note that you can't see the bodies of large units on the ground (they count as four seperate objects covering four seperate tiles, so allowing the user to pick one up would essentially let you rip them apart).<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 06:35, 5 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----------------<br />
<br />
I honestly have no idea of how all those files work. But I still have a savegame in battlescape that is in one of those missions. So if anyone wants to have a look at those files...<br />
<br />
I forgot to mention: I reloaded a geoscape savegame shortly before the battle to recreate the bug, but it seems that reloading in geoscape before the buggy battle eliminates the bug. I guess his should narrow down the possible reasons...<br />
<br />
--------<br />
<br />
Next time it happens, backup the aforementioned files before you start another mission. I'm afraid a savegame wouldn't be of much help.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 00:54, 7 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Soldiers moved to outside of combat screen ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I've got a DOS version of UFO:EU, and I've encountered a bug in the tactical combat. Sometimes (rarely) a X-COM soldier changes its location on the map on player's turn start and is placed on outside of the map, one tile north from the (north) border of the field. AFAIR the unit is then selectable (you get the flashing highlight when cursor is above), but is stuck outside of the field. Has anybody encountered this bug? It seems to happen randomly, but more frequently during the terror missions and on early turns (so maybe it's caused by high number of player/alien/civilian units?). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 08:16, 3 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I've never encountered this bug in CE of UFO. Presuming AFAIR means "As Far As I Recall," what exactly was the soldier doing? Any equipment data, location, or stat info might help us pin it down. Were afflicted soldiers always carrying a specific equipment set or weapon? Where were they on the map before they got moved? Did they get bumped a few spaces, or teleported halfway across the Battlescape? Does it happen more often on a specific difficulty?(Your theory would suggest this would happen most commonly on Superhuman) Against a certain type of alien? Best of all, if you can recreate the situation in a game, save the game and then you could upload the save file to the forums or this wiki, and the rest of us could take a look for ourselves and the code divers could root around for the cause. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:03, 3 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: I've had this happen to me several times in UFO and TFTD. I don't know if it's specific to the Dos version or if it can happen in the CE as well. Sometimes the soldier ends up beyond the boundary of the map right at the start of the mission, at other times it happens after you load a game. This game is glitchy, which is the source for so many of its bugs, so your soldier's coordinates are probably getting corrupted to the point where they are -1 on either the X or Y axis of the maps's normal boundaries. For me it's commonly along the top edge of the map. I don't ever recall it happening mid-mission, only at the start or after a load. I cannot faithfully say whether it happened with or without XComutil, but that could be one of the possibly many causes for this. - [[User:NKF|NKF]]<br />
<br />
:: I don't play UFO often, so I rely on just several campaigns played. This happens rarely (I've encountered this bug twice in my last campaign with ~80 missions played), but if you haven't seen this happen then it probably doesn't show up in the CE edition. In my experience the soldier is moved always beyond the north/top map border. I think (but I'm not sure) that this affects the first soldier from the team more commonly than others (or maybe even exclusevily?). The equipment/armor carried is probably not relevant, since the units moved this way don't have any special stuff, and this bug shows up on different stages of the gameplay (ie. sometimes when you have ordinary rifles, sometimes when all your units got heavy plasmas and power suits). --[[User:Maquina|Maquina]] 04:12, 4 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
'''MY ramblings have been moved to my discussion page''' [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]]<br />
<br />
==Great Circle Route==<br />
<br />
Should we have the Great Circle Route bug noted on this page at all? [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 20:33, 6 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: what is the great circle route? [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 07:56, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Pick two points on a globe, then hold a thread or string taut at those two points. That practically minimizes the length of the thread/string on the globe. You're now looking at a great circle arc (or route), the shortest distance between two points on a globe. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 11:15 March 2009 (CDT)<br />
<br />
: Just as a line is the shortest distance between 2 points on a flat plane, a great circle is the shortest distance between 2 points on the surface of a sphere. The bug, by the way, is that aircraft in the game ''don't'' follow this shortest, "great circle" route. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 12:38, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: What a grand sounding name, for something so simple, lol. ... I thought you were talking about when you tell your soldiers to go from point A to point B, and for some reason they figure that Zone A and Zone B are really far apart, despite actually being side by side. (I shot a hole through a wall, clicked to walk to the other side, and my idiot soldier walked one big circle... to use the door! And got ambushed and killed by an alien. ... dum dum DUMB DUMB.)<br />
:: Even the more modern games have problems with their pathfinding algorythms. Admittedly, games like Baldur's Gate had to do it in realtime.<br />
:: On a semi-related note, I remember this guy called E-man, he was chasing a guided laser beam that was going to kill his girl, around the world, but he couldn't outrun it since he couldn't break the speed of light, only equal it by changing into a Laser himself. So... inspiration! He turned into a very powerful laser, and made a shortcut THROUGH THE EARTH... the straight line beats the great circle route, lol.<br />
:: Thanks for the reply guys [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:56, 31 March 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Bug not listed: Missing soldiers during base defense==<br />
<br />
I encountered an interesting bug concerning base defense missions:<br />
My base got attacked while about 30 soldiers and 10 HWPs were present. The usual equipment assignment screen was skipped and the mission started instantly with only the HWPs spawned at the map. Not even a single soldier bothered to show up... *sigh*<br />
Although this turned out to be in my favor (you should have seen the puzzled Ethereals trying to panic my tanks) I´d like to avoid this bug if possible. I was able to reproduce this bug several times and with different bases. <br />
Can anyone explain this bug and/or tell me how to avoid it?<br />
<br />
Game version: Collectors edition. - [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
Well, ideally, we need to know what your base's construction was to be sure of this, but I think the most likely circumstance is that the HWPs took up all the spawn points. HWPs have maximum priority for spawning(followed by Soldiers, and then Aliens), so if you have enough of them garrisoning a base, it's entirely possible that soldiers and aliens won't spawn. However, this doesn't explain why the soldiers didn't start stealing the Alien spawn points...in any event, you might want to take the save game file, zip it up, and get ready to email it. I'm sure [[User:Zombie|Zombie]] would be quite interested. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 15:28, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
It's not the spawn points, it's a [[UNITPOS.DAT]] limitation. A maximum of forty records (out of the total of eighty) are allocated for your units, and tanks (which take up four records each) get first pick. Having ten tanks means there's no room left for anything else.<br />
<br />
Ditch one HWP and you should see four units take it's place. - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 16:42, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
I´ll try with a decreasing number of tanks and report the results. As I wrote above having only HWPs isn´t too bad dependent on what enemy is attacking. [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
This should be mentioned in the [[ExploitsE#Base Defence Mission Spawning Issues]] section. The Bugs/Exploits really need to be sorted and consolidated. - [[User:NinthRank|NinthRank]] 16:57, 13 November 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
The limitation to 40 records seems to be the case; each tank I dumped got replaced by four soldiers. <br />
So this can be used to effectively manage unit combination. Thanks for the quick replies! [[User:NewJoker|NewJoker]]<br />
<br />
==Bug not listed: Ufo Gold (Windows Vers. abandonia.com) crashing when plasma defense is finished==<br />
<br />
I recordnized this bug a few times now. (with hacked AND unhacked game)<br />
If i place a plasma defense in 7 bases at the same Time and they are finished at the same Time, the game crashes sometimes.<br />
In hacked game, it seems to crash even more when Alien containment is finished, plasma defense, shield defense...etc.<br />
couldnt find it here...greetz<br />
<br />
: I somehow doubt the sourcing is the issue. [You may want to fund the next XCOM series game with a Take2 re-release of UFO :)] More generally: the game only reports the construction of a given type of facility <b>once</b>, no matter how many bases it completes at simultaneously. I've only tested this <i>in vivo</i> with three-of-a-kind at once across six bases, however. It does seem reasonable that some sort of counter of undisplayed completions would "overflow" (attaining crash). -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 10:05, Feb. 28 2008 CST<br />
<br />
::I've encountered this bug myself with General Stores, actually, not just Plasma Defense(which I never build). EDIT: Some quick tests seem to show that there's a chance the game will crash any time two base facilities are done at the same time, regardless of whether they're in the same base or not or if they're the same facility.(although it seems to happen MUCH more in the event they're in different bases.) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:13, 28 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Soldier Recruiting Bugs Tested ==<br />
<br />
Just to note that I have positively tested and replicated the bugs listed under the new(ish) section [[Known Bugs#Soldier Recruiting Bugs|Soldier Recruiting Bugs]]. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:08, 19 March 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Floater Medic Bug==<br />
<br />
I have not thus far encountered the Floater Medic Bug; in fact, Floater Medics are often used to fill up my Rogue Gallery with interrogations. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 06:50, 24 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Strange, it would always occur in my version. I don't remember where I got it from, but I<br />
know it was a download from the internet. Using the XCom Hack v2.5, I viewed the alien in<br />
the Alien Containment edit. I now have Type (race):____, and a Rank: Soldier for the <br />
Floater Medic. It might just be corruption, but I do not have the resources to look into<br />
it. [[User:Muton commander|Muton commander]] 19:24, 12 May 2008 (Pacific Time Zone)<br />
<br />
I've never encountered it either. [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 07:47, 23 July 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Strength Overflow==<br />
<br />
During one of my games with TFTD I noticed a really annoying thing happen during battles.<br />
As my troops rose up the 'stat.' ladder they got better and better (as you'd expect), until they hit about 50 strentgh and completely lost the ability to throw anything.<br />
Even trying to throw something tiny like a grenade or flare into the adjacent tile resulted in the 'Out of Range' message being displayed.<br />
<br />
Anyone come across this before?<br />
This was in TFTD CE.<br />
[[User:Tifi|Tifi]] 07:55, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:This is fairly well documented. The pathfinding algorithm for throwing objects will balk if anything is in the way of the throw and refuse to allow you to throw. What's happening is that your soldiers have become so strong that their throws are intercepting the 'ceiling' of the Battlescape(the top of L3), and as such the game thinks that the throw is blocked(because in order for the throw to complete, the object would have to be tossed up to the nonexistant L4). There's two ways around this:<br />
<br />
:The Normal Way: Try shorter throws, throwing from lower heights, or throwing while kneeling. Beyond that, possibly get some new troops.<br />
<br />
:The Sneaky Way: Manually edit the Strength scores of your soldiers in [[SOLDIER.DAT]] so that they're back to a usable strength level. If you set "Initial Strength" (offset 46 decimal or 2E hex) to 0 and "Strength Improvement" (offset 57 decimal or 39 hex) to a value of 50, you can permanently lock the soldiers at 50 strength. (You can lock them higher than that if you so choose, but not lower.<br />
<br />
:Other than this, there's no workarounds I can think of offhand. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 08:10, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: There's normally no problem with the max level of 70 in open settings. However TFTD has a lot of low ceilings such as in the shipping lane missions and colonies, and the lower ceilings impairs your throwing quite a bit. In addition to shorter throws/kneeling, try moving out from under any overhangs if there is one just above you. - [[User:NKF|NKF]] 12:33, 27 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Bug not listed: Sticking your head through the ceiling ==<br />
This is something I just discovered: When you step on a small object inside of a building your soldier sticks his/her head through the ceiling and can see what's upstairs. You can even see the soldiers head coming out of the floor and that soldiers can shoot aliens upstairs. When I did this the alien I saw/shot was facing the other way, but I guess you could get shot if the alien was facing you. [[User:RedNifre|RedNifre]] 17:34, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:That's not listed under "Bugs" because it's covered under "Exploits", right here: [[Exploiting_Collison_Detection#See_Through_A_Ceiling]] [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 18:26, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: I don't know if it was ever covered anywhere, but there's this neat trick that might sound similar to the walk-through-'wall object'-wall trick except that it involves your unit climbing slopes. They'll appear as though they've gone up a level, but are actually not on that level. They only visually appear to be there, but are really still on the bottom level. <br />
<br />
:: It happens a lot when walking up the desert or forest slopes. I think the trick involves standing on ground level, and then ordering the unit to 'move' into the hill rather than setting the waypoint while on level 1. The soldier will move up the slope and perhaps stop on the slope or even reach the top of the slope, but will still appear when you're only viewing the ground map layer. The soldier is really still on the ground level, but will have elevation offset. <br />
<br />
:: One really interesting way of using this trick is in the mountain region. If you can find a cliff face and a low hill nearby, you can literally have your soldier scale the cliff by standing the soldier on the hill, and then walking towards the cliff. It's ridiculous, but your soldier never quite reaches the top of the cliff tiles, so ends up walking up a slope. <br />
<br />
:: On a side note, standing at the top of the ramp of the Skyranger is the same as standing on ground level - you're only offset a bit. This means that smoke on level 1 and the sides of the Skyranger will not provide protection when you're at the top of the ramp. <br />
<br />
:: On another related note in relation: In TFTD (doesn't happen a lot in UFO), you might find it difficult to toss grenades onto underwater slopes. To remedy this, raise the level up by one. It might look like you're tossing at air(and you are), but it'll get the grenade where you want it. Odd, but true. I must remember to put this in the grenade explanation section. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:11, 11 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Base Defence bug that causes a crash? ==<br />
<br />
Does anyone know about a bug in a base defence mission that causes the game to crash? The game keeps crashing on the 4th or 5th alien turn.<br />
<br />
:I've encountered that myself, but it should be noted that overall, X-COM is not the most stable game and is prone to crashing often at anytime. The differences between the hardware it was designed for and the hardware we're running it on cannot be helping matters at all; it's really a small miracle it even runs without an emulator in the first place(I've got games from 1999 that will bluescreen my machine instantly). As such, I'm not sure it's worth noting as a bug, since it's a 'game feature'(albeit a detrimental one). In any case, what're you doing letting the aliens attack you anyways? ;) [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:33, 18 July 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Sources for a DOS4GW transplant ==<br />
<br />
I was specifically thinking of the LucasArts Dark Forces demo, but I half-recall the actual source I used when testing that ~1999 was Id's DOOM. -- [[User:Zaimoni|Zaimoni]] 16:03, 7 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Phantom Carried Casualty ==<br />
<br />
You are carrying an unconscious soldier in one hand, and the soldier dies of his/her wounds. The dead soldier remains visible on the "left hand / right hand object" battlescape display, but is no longer visible in the inventory display. The problem can be fixed by moving another object into the same hand. <br />
<br />
I've seen this bug with UFO Extender by [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] - possibly might be something to do with his manipulation of the inventory screen, rather than a general bug. I believe I've also seen this with other objects that were being carried in the hands, disappearing from the Inventory screen, but I'm not sure. I don't think it's an item limit bug, as XcomUtil shows 40 item slots free. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:58, 21 September 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Civilians As Enemies to MC'd Aliens ==<br />
<br />
I ran across this issue a few times and just wondered if you guys experienced this. I MC'd a part of a Reaper (I always do the lower left for large aliens) on a Terror Site, then moved it a few squares. It suddenly stopped dead in it's tracks and then the alien spotted indicator increased by 1. When I clicked on the indicator to see where the enemy unit was, it brought me to L2 of the large apartment complex. However, nothing was there. When I sent a Flying-Suited soldier up there to peek in the window (eeek! A peeping tom!) he saw a female civilian standing there. This type of problem has happened numerous times to me so it's not a once-off thing. Maybe it's a LOS issue? Or maybe an alien indicator problem? Or a combination of the two? Don't know, but I'm curious if you guys have seen it. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 23:40, 19 December 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:There are a lot of major issues with MC'ing 4 square aliens. One of them being that you could accidentally MC an alien far off in the corner of the map, IIRC? Anyhow, maybe you should have tried MC'ing all 4 squares of the reaper and see if that changed things. -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]<br />
<br />
The long-range MC of other aliens when Mind-Controlling large aliens is only present in Terror From The Deep, due to a workaround to try and resolve the earlier bugs(and exploits) associated with controlling one square of a large unit at the time. In TFTD, successfully MC'ing part of a Large unit will also grant you control of the next three units in UNITPOS.DAT, in order. If you didn't MC the upper left portion of the large unit(the first UNITPOS entry for any large unit), you can potentially wind up in control of other aliens. So this doesn't apply to UFO. As for Zombie's issue, never seen it. And finally...Jasonred, on Talk pages, please indent your statement with colons so it differentiates from other people's comments, and sign your posts with 4 ~'s, like I will now do. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:42, 19 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
==Elerium Base Bug==<br />
<br />
Jasonred: This bug has long since been known about. Elerium units on the Battlescape can be picked up by shooting away the power source; this one item counts as 50 units, and as such ANY elerium item spawned on any Battlescape counts as 50 Elerium. This issue with your own Elerium spawning as collectable loot in a Base Defense mission only occurs in older DOS versions, and is at the whim of the 80 item limit. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 21:55, 18 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Base defense does not seem to follow the 80 item limit in that DOS version. There are a lot of bugs that have long been known about. However this one was not included in the ufopedia for some reason.<br />
:Also, the main thing about this bug is that it does not potentially double your elerium stores. It potentially multiplies them 50 times.<br />
:... First time this happened to me, I was pretty flabbergasted. Here I was being conservative with my limited Elerium, refraining from blowing up UFOs when possible, when I perform a base defense and gain 3000 Elerium from it. Holy spit. -[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]]<br />
<br />
Alright, my error. Thanks for clarifying. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 10:42, 19 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
==HWP Fusion Bomb and SWS PWT Displacer Ammo Manufacturing Cost Bug==<br />
<br />
At a cost of $15000, 400 Tech hours, 5 Zrbite, and 8 Aqua Plastics, this is the exact same cost as the HWP Fusion Bomb from X-COM EU, converted over to the equivalent TFTD resources. As such, it shouldn't be counted as a bug, since it is clearly what Mythos intended. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 09:55, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Hmm, in that case maybe it should be treated as a generic game engine issue and not a TFTD specific issue - but I still think it's a design error. Can you think of any logical reason why the SWS/HWP version of the ammo should be more expensive (in cost and in materials) than both the craft ammo and the (more powerful) personal ammo? It makes no logical sense. Hence I think it's a design error. Nothing can be inferred from the fact it's unchanged from XCOM-EU, that doesn't imply any deliberate decision. It could just be the replication of an original error in XCOM-EU. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 11:17, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: I can think of a logical reason to justify this: X-Com doesn't understand the technology as well as the aliens do (which is obvious, given the length of time each side has known the tech). Handheld Blaster/Blaster Bombs are just a copy of the alien design and therefor relatively cheap and efficient, but that can't be mounted on a turret. So X-Com has to make a new design, and they obviously didn't do that good a job as the aliens would have done. This explains Tank/Plasma being weaker than Heavy Plasma too. (Why is FBL Craft ammo cheaper than the tank ammo though? Maybe X-Com gave up on/simplified the guidance system and made it just a "dumb" cannon shell/torpedo instead which doesn't have multiple waypoints? Or maybe they just did a better job there?). [[User:Cesium|Cesium]] 04:07, 25 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Whilst we discuss it, I'll park my original text in here:<br />
<br />
* ''Displacer/PWT ammo cost bug - at over $100,000 total cost per round, the ammunition for this SWS weapon is far more expensive to manufacture (both in money and rare materials) than the equivalent ammo for the Aquanaut-carried Disruptor Pulse Launcher, or the craft-based Pulse Wave Torpedo, despite being less powerful than either. This would seem to be a design mistake.''<br />
<br />
See Also [[Talk:Displacer/PWT]]<br />
<br />
:: I don't like the higher cost either, but I think it's a tradeoff of expense and quality for the convenience of portability. Sort of like an MP3 player to the gramophone... or maybe that's not a good comparison. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 13:43, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
A better comparison might be a desktop computer to a laptop. As a general rule, laptops are more expensive, but a similarly priced desktop gives you more power. Desktops are cheaper and offer power, laptops are more expensive and offer portability(though the gap is rapidly narrowing). [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 13:49, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
:I think those are good analogies. But they don't apply in this case. To continue your analogies: We are paying mainframe prices for a clunky desktop that has only laptop processing power, and we're buying a mainframe for desktop prices. The vehicle version ("desktop") - is ''less'' portable and ''less'' powerful than the personal version (DPL = "laptop"), ''less'' capable than the craft version ("mainframe") - and costs ''more'' than either of the others in total cash and in materials. In particular, it makes no sense that the small missiles on the SWS use up ''more'' of both Zrbite and Aqua Plastics than the Craft version. Do we really think it's logical that a tactical battlefield round, less powerful than its man-carried equivalent, takes more explosive and structural material to produce than both the more powerful man-carried version and also more than the air-to-air round that has 60km range and can take down a major alien combat craft? There is a clearly perverse bang-per-buck here, on every measure. My sincere belief is that this was an original mistake in the XCOM-EU engine that got copied into TFTD as well. The craft round should have the higher base price, but the material requirements that are currently assigned to the SWS/HWP round. It's debatable whether the SWS/HWP rounds should be more expensive than the man-carried rounds. But what I don't think is debatable is that is not logical for the SWS/HWP rounds to be more expensive than the craft rounds. It's clearly a mistake. Even in game balance terms, the only thing the HWP/SWS rounds have going for them is conserving "80-Item Limit" space, which I severely doubt was ever a game design consideration since it's just an awkward programming compromise. Any advantage inherent in the HWP/SWS is already reflected in the very high platform cost - there is no need to inflate the ammo costs as well. The bottom line is that a round for a (mini-)tank does not cost more, does not use more materials, than the same type of round for a long range anti-aircraft weapon that has much greater damage capacity and penetrating capacity. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:35, 15 November 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
I'm going to add this to the bug list now. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 16:06, 25 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Still don't think this is a bug though. Just because it's more expensive to manufacture than the hand-held or craft-mounted ammo, it doesn't mean the stats are wrong. Perhaps the programmers wanted to balance the tactical portion of the game a little more by making the ammo cost more for tanks. It doesn't have to be logical to be intended. Now if you had proof which said that the ammo was supposed to cost less but the stats were wrong, then yes, I'd agree. So if you boil it all down it comes to a disparate logic issue, not a bug.--[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 21:31, 25 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
::I have to side with Zombie here. While the ammo may be disproportionately expensive, by the definition used on the rest of the page for bug, it doesn't fit. All the other bugs are errors in program logic or function or routines that are unintentional problems with the game, most of which are not warned of ahead of time. The ammo for the tank costs exactly what is listed and operates entirely as intended, whereas the rest of the bugs are not intended game features. Even if the numbers were entered wrong, that would be a data entry error, not a program bug. [[User:Arrow Quivershaft|Arrow Quivershaft]] 00:28, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:If it was a data entry error, I'd consider that a type of bug... assuming we had proof of the goof so to speak. LOL. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 00:49, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: It feels too specific an entry to be a data entry error. <br />
<br />
:: I'm reminded of the high explosive. I know, I know - it's not an exact parallel to the FBL issue. A High Explosive is practically two grenades. Double weight, double bulk. Slightly above two times the damage. However, it costs five times the price of a standard grenade. Even though you're paying more for not-as-much, I don't think that could be considered a bug. A rip off, yes, but not a bug. <br />
<br />
:: Here's a thought: Think about the immediate benefits each of the two controversial ammo types give back to you. Aircraft ammo = activity points. Tank ammo = loot. Yes, I know that aircraft ammo also generate crash sites, but you still have the ground combat to contend with. <br />
<br />
:: One other thought: With careful management of your ammo, you'll probably never spend any elerium on the handheld version's ammo. Could it be the handheld that's really at issue here rather than the others? In the end I feel that it doesn't really matter. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:38, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: I'm with Zombie that a data entry error is a bug (we have other examples), but also agree some proof is probably needed. And I agree with NKF that in the scheme of things, it doesn't really matter much. I don't think the HE pack is a good comparison (though the HE pack should be heavier) as it's reasonable to pay disprortionately more to get additional power at the same tech level. The fusion weapons are a case of paying more to actually get ''less'' power. I am not bothered by the handheld vs vehicle balance, not least because the game generally makes handheld weapons better than their vehicle equivalents, so I can accept that as an across-the-board design decision. <br />
<br />
: I can also see a game balance argument ''if'' we believe that Fusion Tank ammo is more of an overall game-winning weapon than craft Fusion Bombs. But I'm not sure I agree with that statement. And even if it's true, and there's a game balance argument (in which case it would apply equally to handheld Fusion launchers), it's still illogical. The less powerful, battlefield warhead should not cost massively more in exotic materials than the much more powerful air to air warhead that brings down Battleships. I agree though that just because it's illogical does not prove it's a bug (i.e. unintended). [[User:Spike|Spike]] 07:48, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
Ok we more or less seem to be in agreement that this isn't a bug, but it is very confusing/illogical. Maybe we can shift the "bug" text from the article page and roll that into the [[Hovertank/Launcher]] and [[Displacer /P. W. T.]] pages now. Feel free to combine any text from the discussion above if necessary. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 09:22, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Unless we can ''prove'' it's a data entry error (unlikely), how about calling it an "Anomaly" instead of a bug? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 10:59, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
Looks like plain old game imbalance to me.<br />
The way I see it, Hovertank Plasma and Launcher were meant to be stronger. Much much stronger. Let's look at Tank Cannon, Launcher and Laser. The logic is that it's a tank mounted weapon, so the tank can carry a much larger and more powerful version of the same weapon, right?<br />
It's pretty stupid that a Hovertank Plasma is weaker than the Heavy Plasma... you could just mount a Heavy Plasma on a Hovertank and get them exactly equal. In fact, I suspect that the hovertanks were ALSO meant to have more powerful weapons than the man-portable versions.<br />
Unfortunatly, the game designers then realised that this made the hovertanks far too powerful. So... the programmers nerfed the power of the hovertank weapons. BUT they forgot to lower the ammo costs. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 11:20, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
: Well you are opening up a much larger issue there. The Fusion weapons are an anomaly, an inconsistency. But handheld weapons are more powerful than equivalent vehicle weapons across the board, consistently. So that looks like a deliberate design decision, not a mistake. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:33, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: There are two exceptions to the rule: Tank/Cannon: 60AP vs. Heavy Cannon 56AP. Tank/Laser: 110 Laser vs. Heavy Laser: 85 Laser. The hovertank\plasma only differs by a measly 5 (an extra 0 - 10 damage, which means a lot vs. UFO inner hull armour). I guess the trend here was to moderate the area effect tank strengths. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:22, 26 February 2009 (CST) <br />
<br />
I'd have to agree with you there Spike. This wasn't a mistake, however odd it may seem. It was a deliberate attempt to try and balance the game. Below is a table I created ages ago for my (now defunct) strategy guide detailing the HWP's and what handheld weapon corresponds to it. When you stick them side-by-side, it really becomes apparent that the programmers were trying to base the HWP weapons off the handheld weapons somewhat. The only thing that doesn't follow a nice and distinct scheme is the damage. That's what is the clincher. --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:26, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br><br />
<table {{StdCenterTable}} class="sortable"><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left" width="150">Tank Type</th><th width="70">DAM</th><th width="80">Snap</th><th width="90">Aimed</th><th width="90">Aimed</th><th width="80">Snap</th><th width="70">DAM</th><th align="right" width="140">Handheld</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Tank/Cannon</th><td>60</td><td>60%</td><td>90%</td><td>90%</td><td>60%</td><td>56<sup>1</sup></td><th align="right">Heavy Cannon</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Rocket Launcher</th><td>85</td><td>55%</td><td>115%</td><td>115%</td><td>55%</td><td>87.5<sup>2</sup></td><th align="right">Rocket Launcher</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Laser Cannon</th><td>110</td><td>50%</td><td>85%</td><td>84%</td><td>50%</td><td>85</td><th align="right">Heavy Laser</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Hovertank/Plasma</th><td>110</td><td>85%</td><td>100%</td><td>100%</td><td>86%</td><td>80</td><th align="right">Plasma Rifle</th></tr><br />
<tr><th align="left">Hovertank/Launch</th><td>140</td><td>--%</td><td>120%</td><td>120%</td><td>--%</td><td>200</td><th align="right">Blaster Launcher</th></tr> <br />
</table><br />
<sup>1</sup>AP rounds.<br><br />
<sup>2</sup>Average between the Small and Large Rocket.<br />
<br />
<br />
: Hold up! Tank rounds do 60AP. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:22, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
So what's wrong? The table says 60 for the Tank/Cannon and 56 for HC-AP. Those are correct, no? --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 23:41, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
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: Sorry, didn't realise it was two tables side by side (or rather mirrored). Eyes only noticed the left side of the table. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 23:53, 26 February 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: If the Hovertank Launcher did 200 damage, or worse if the Hovertank Launcher did EVEN MORE damage than the Blaster Launcher... that would make them easily the most deadly things on the map. As it is, the hovertank launcher is already pretty overpowered, even with 140 power.<br />
<br />
== DOS4GW - What the heck is it? ==<br />
<br />
It's been ages since I had to remember this stuff, so those who remember clearer than I do, forgive me if my descriptions aren't accurate. Hopefully the general idea will come across. <br />
<br />
Back in ye olde days of computere gamynge - and where there were more E's to go around, memory handling was a tricky beast to handle. Computer memory is divided into several different categories. Conventional, extended and I think expanded. I might be jumbling the terminologies for the last two a bit. Doesn't matter - memory was just cut up into small segments. The two most common memory types to PCs at the time were pretty small but were readily available. The third one - the most expandable (aka the chip with its massive 4 Megs of RAM you just spent your whole month's allowance on!), wasn't as easy to get at. <br />
<br />
To get access to the higher memory that was available to the computer, special memory handlers had to be used. Drivers like HIMEM, emm386, etc were used. <br />
<br />
DOS4GW is one such handler that lets the game access the computer's available expanded memory. Lots of games that came out at the time use this. Doom, Duke Nukem 3d, Syndicate, Ultima Underworld, X-Com UFO/TFTD, etc. LOTS of games. Any time you ran a game from the dos console and you saw the Dos4GW message flash by briefly it would be assisted by it (well, it stayed on the screen for ages back when processors were slower!). <br />
<br />
It took the hassle out of memory handling and let the game access the available memory on the computer as one big flat block of memory to play with. <br />
<br />
So what was meant in the article was to simply replace the dos4gw.exe with a more up-to-date version from another game. I think the way to tell its version was just in the message that it displayed. You can just run the dos4gw.exe file in a console window. It'll give an error, but the message it shows will indicate its version. UFO 1.4 uses Dos4gw 1.95, for example. <br />
<br />
-[[User:NKF|NKF]] 01:22, 6 March 2009 (CST)<br />
:DOS4GW also switched the processor from 16bit to 32bit mode. [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 13:58, 6 March 2009 (CST)<br />
<br />
== Clipping ==<br />
I have a new bug. Its harmless. I have a savegame (EU CE - modified game) which has a sectoid within another sectoid. In the alien turn, one secturd walked off the roof and dropped down <s>onto</s> into another. (I guess there DNA is indentical afterall, so they 'become one' with the world). If you want the savegame (superhuman edited using UFOloader, UFO Mod v1, xcomed, Khor Chin WeapEdit v0.1) drop me a request on the my page somewhere. [[User:EsTeR|EsTeR]] 01:40, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Not something many would encounter, but definitely something that can happen. Units can occupy the same physical space, but the game cannot display them all. It'll only draw one of them. Actually saw this effect happen back in the early days of XComutil when it gained the ability to manually add new aliens into a battlescape. It did this by slotting them into the same spaces occupied by existing aliens. Then the fun would happen when you saw a couple of Mutons suddenly walk out of a sectoid. Not sure how the game determines who gets hurt when struck by a bullet. May very well depend on the order they are stored in the unitpos.dat file. <br />
<br />
: There are a couple of ways you can replicate this in-game, but I can only provide theories on how you could do it. Such as shooting the ceiling above you and letting the unit drop through, or moving a tank off a ledge and getting its non-primary segments land directly on top of another unit. By the way, the rear end of tanks get stuck in walls if you attempt to move north or east off any ledges. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 02:18, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Ok, so as long as others know about this, then all is good. I had never seen it and was doing alot of head scratching until I shot the alien.<br />
<br />
== Berserk HWP crashes the game ==<br />
In the article page it mentions that aliens which go berserk with their integrated weapons will crash the game. This is only true for Mind Controlled aliens (or units under X-COM control) - alien controlled units which go berserk do not crash the game. I tested an MC'd Celatid just now and it doesn't crash the game either, though it doesn't immediately go berserk - it waits another turn for some odd reason. Someone want to check this to verify my results? --[[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 20:31, 27 December 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== 80-items limit on CE edition ==<br />
<br />
I have the feeling that the 80-items limit does not apply to the CE edition and is instead a 110-items limit (at least during base defence). Can anyone confirm? [[User:Seb76|Seb76]] 16:24, 24 February 2010 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I believe this limit was increased for TFTD. Maybe it was also increased for the CE edition of UFO, and only ever applied to the DOS edition of UFO?? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:03, 11 March 2010 (EST)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Submersible_Weapons_Systems&diff=33581Talk:Submersible Weapons Systems2011-05-08T19:19:59Z<p>Jasonred: /* Are SWS worth it in TFTD? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== X-COM Turn reaction fire immunity ==<br />
<br />
Just based off a question on the Strategycore Forums by user Veki, it seems that TFTD breaks the reaction fire mechanics for SWS during X-COM's turn. In other words, they're immune to reaction fire. They will get attacked during the aliens' turn, but they don't get fired on during your turn. <br />
<br />
This appears to occur in both patched and unpatched dos versions as well as CE. Can anyone else test this out and return with their findings? What I'd really like to know is if this occurs in the Playstation edition as well, just to round things off. <br />
<br />
<br />
While not unwelcome, it's certainly a most unbalancing feature. Note: This does not occur in UFO. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 19:46, 29 May 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
It's not the only aspect of reaction fire that's broken in TFTD of course. Probably this is a symptom of the general brokenness of reaction fire in TFTD - e.g. the underwater only weapons that reaction fire on land. I wonder how they managed to break it so comprehensively? And if it could be patched back together? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 11:29, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Reaction fire on land with aqua-only weapons is more a case of not getting the job done thoroughly than breaking the reaction fire mechanic. See, reaction fire has always been a standard response for all off-turn units in this game that have a firearm. They made aqua only weapons through changing the fire commands by adding an extra set of conditions that check the depth of the map against certain items in obdata.dat before they let the gun fire. Sort of like the ceiling intersection check that grenades get before they're allowed to be thrown. <br />
<br />
: It's really the exact same issue that we have with the Gauss/Coelacanth arming bug: only got half of the necessary source code changes were done. <br />
<br />
: But yeah I do feel that the whole reaction fire element in TFTD feels a whole lot different from what it was in UFO. But that's probably caused by generally slower snap weapons and higher enemy stats. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:37, 20 June 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Weirdly, I'm pretty sure that ALIEN HWP/SWP/4squares will trigger X-com reaction fire. How does the game differentiate xcom soldiers, aliens, civilians, 4 square aliens, and SWPs? [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 02:57, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: There's enough information in the unitref/unitpos tables for the game to differentiate what unit's what and what sort of characteristics they possess. It might also have its own hardcoded ideas of what certain unit types are capable of (such as tentaculats being able to zombify when the AI uses its built-in melee attack command). <br />
<br />
::: I think there are two similar but separate reaction fire handlers. One that works during your turn and the other that works during the AI's turn. It's not apparent in TFTD due to the lack of auto weapons, but the AI controlled units get to choose auto-shots as a response in addition to the usual snaps. During the AI's turn, your reaction fire modes will only ever go with snapshots. This is what leads me to think that your reaction fire rules and the AI's rules are handled separately. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 04:09, 23 June 2009 (EDT) <br />
<br />
<br />
: Well NKF that sounds slightly better - so do you think it's fixable? I guess for that we need to wait until Seb76, or some other enterprising coder, tackles TFTD. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 11:51, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Seb76 has done leaps and bounds, if not miracles, with his loader so far so I wouldn't be surprised if it evolves enough to eventually reroute the reaction fire handler to a better one. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 04:09, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
I've just played my TFTD, I shot a Lobsterman with my Displacer Gauss from within his sight radius and he returned fire twice, and in fact killed my displacer. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 20:47, 6 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Are SWS worth it in TFTD? ==<br />
<br />
From my recent playing experience on Superhuman, the answer is a resounding YES.<br />
<br />
Firstly, when you are starting out, the survivability of the tanks is immense. Soldiers cannot even compare their armor and HP, even with Aqua Plastic Armor and Medi-Kits and getting HP from combat experience. As for Displacers, they have 12 less armor on the front than Magnetic Ion Armor, but much more armor on all other locations. And they have HUGE HP. They are much more likely to survive a severe beating than an Aquanaut, and in the event they do survive, they are immediately repaired at base, compared to Aquanaut's being weeks in hospital.<br />
<br />
Tanks are also immune to MC and morale failure. (unless they kill aquanauts by accident). This is VERY useful before you get MC labs.<br />
<br />
Tanks are immune to zombification. Considering the huge boost that Tentaculats got compared to Chrysalids (flying and extra 20 reactions and much harder to kill), having units that are immune to Tentaculats is a HUGE advantage during missions where they reside. Also, TFTD generally has more hard to destroy nooks and crannies where Tentaculats love to hide. A tentaculat CAN damage a Displacer, but usually won't be able to kill it in 1 turn. I believe that Superhuman Tentaculats can mangle Coelanths quite efficiently. A zombification attack has a 100% chance of zombifying an aquanaut, making it the deadliest attack in the game, other than a DPL to a group of aquanauts. Also, Sonic Cannons lack of autoshot and super high TUs mean that a soldier will almost always not have enough TU to kill a zombie AND the resulting Tentaculat in 1 turn. If you have 2 soldiers in a group, and a tentaculat manages to get one of them, the other soldier is pretty much doomed. Whereas in EU, he could probably autoshot the zombie and then kill the Chrysalid in the same turn.<br />
<br />
Tanks have better stats than rookies. In fact it takes quite long to get your soldiers better stats than a displacer.<br />
<br />
Tanks regain full energy every turn. This is more important than in EU, because the maps are so much larger.<br />
<br />
The tank will only cost you 400k ONCE. As long as it survives, there is no monthly salary, like soldiers would have. The fact that a tank is much more likely to survive multiple months compared to soldiers helps too.<br />
<br />
PWT Displacers are much weaker than a DPL armed soldier. However a D/PWT can carry 8 PWT without using any item space whereas the soldier would use up 8 item slots to carry 1 DPL and 7 ammo. That's 10% of your item limit.<br />
<br />
Tanks SAVE ITEM SLOTS. It wasn't as big a problem in EU, where lasers have infinite ammo and Heavy Plasmas have 35 shots, but in TFTD, those 10 shots per Sonic Cannon Ammo do not get very far. You definitely need some reloads for each gun you bring into play.<br />
<br />
Tank weakness: Cannot use M.C. Disrupters. Tanks also cannot fit through 1 space doorways.<br />
<br />
[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 20:47, 6 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Been playing a multiplayer game of TFTD recently and I have to say the SWS rock. They are not a necessity, but even the (unmodified) Gas Cannon Coelacanth is a fantastic machine for assisting (but not replacing) rookies at the start of the game. Cost-wise they're prohibitive, but that's less of a problem as you play. The Sonic Displacer is a truly valuable machine, and not just because it can fly on land. <br />
<br />
: I still haven't fully worked out what their game is with respect to enemy reaction fire though, as they seem to follow slightly different rules than the tanks in UFO from observation. I mean, look at their reactions and compare how often the Coelacanths attract reaction fire compared to 4 throw-away rookies with unpredictable reaction levels. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 22:33, 6 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Multiplayer TFTD? How do you play that? Hot seat style controlling only the humans?<br />
<br />
:: The Sonic Displacer can fly on land??? Really? I can't make mine fly during a base defence mission, could you double check this please?<br />
<br />
:: I don't know how often rookies and tanks draw reaction fire. In fact, during my early playthroughs, I did not know that soldiers could shoot at stuff which they did not "acquire" and only shot at enemies with the flashing number on them. Ever since learning that you could snipe at enemies from far away, and that doing so meant that enemies could NOT reaction fire was a HUGE gamechanger for me. So, nowadays, I typically have the tanks as spotters and the troops just snipe at enemies from across the map. Oh yeah, it's weird how there's not much difference in accuracy between a target 20 tiles away and 30 tiles away... [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 23:05, 6 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: Multiplayer TFTD as in "[http://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/Aquatoid-Sushi-and-Lobsterburger-t8698.html pass the parcel]" with the save-game. Worth pointing out that I've played through my last three or four missions by having a tank fly around and the rest of the squad sniping. TFTD maps are typically featureless, so it's usually possible to snipe from pretty much any point ''to'' any point.<br />
<br />
::: TFTD tanks can indeed fly on land, including base defense missions. Though pretty much the only areas where theres ''room'' to fly in your base would be the sub-pens. - <span style="font-size:xx-small">&nbsp;[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke|Contribs]])</span> 23:21, 6 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
For the purpose of this discussion, can people clarify if they are using SWS buffed by XComUtil, or plain vanilla SWS. It makes a big difference as far as the weaker Coelecanth chassis is concerned. Nonetheless I tend to agree with Jasonred's arguments that the tougher aliens, tougher maps, lower aquanaut life expectancy and relatively tighter ammo carrying capacity improve the value of the TFTD SWS compared to the EU HWP. I tend to use them in TFTD and tend not to use them in EU. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:16, 8 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Isn't buffing the SWS with XComUtil cheating? I mean, Coelacanth are already pretty strong in the beginning of the game, why do they get a massive buff? You might as well make Dart Pistols have infinite ammo, high accuracy, and do 200 damage... In the case of EU, I might see that an Xcom commander might insist on mounting the HWS Laser Cannon onto a flying chassis solely for it's ability to kill sectopods, but I don't see any reason for a Gauss, harpoon, or torpedo Displacer. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:18, 8 May 2011 (EDT)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Submersible_Weapons_Systems&diff=33580Talk:Submersible Weapons Systems2011-05-08T19:18:13Z<p>Jasonred: /* Are SWS worth it in TFTD? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== X-COM Turn reaction fire immunity ==<br />
<br />
Just based off a question on the Strategycore Forums by user Veki, it seems that TFTD breaks the reaction fire mechanics for SWS during X-COM's turn. In other words, they're immune to reaction fire. They will get attacked during the aliens' turn, but they don't get fired on during your turn. <br />
<br />
This appears to occur in both patched and unpatched dos versions as well as CE. Can anyone else test this out and return with their findings? What I'd really like to know is if this occurs in the Playstation edition as well, just to round things off. <br />
<br />
<br />
While not unwelcome, it's certainly a most unbalancing feature. Note: This does not occur in UFO. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 19:46, 29 May 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
It's not the only aspect of reaction fire that's broken in TFTD of course. Probably this is a symptom of the general brokenness of reaction fire in TFTD - e.g. the underwater only weapons that reaction fire on land. I wonder how they managed to break it so comprehensively? And if it could be patched back together? [[User:Spike|Spike]] 11:29, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Reaction fire on land with aqua-only weapons is more a case of not getting the job done thoroughly than breaking the reaction fire mechanic. See, reaction fire has always been a standard response for all off-turn units in this game that have a firearm. They made aqua only weapons through changing the fire commands by adding an extra set of conditions that check the depth of the map against certain items in obdata.dat before they let the gun fire. Sort of like the ceiling intersection check that grenades get before they're allowed to be thrown. <br />
<br />
: It's really the exact same issue that we have with the Gauss/Coelacanth arming bug: only got half of the necessary source code changes were done. <br />
<br />
: But yeah I do feel that the whole reaction fire element in TFTD feels a whole lot different from what it was in UFO. But that's probably caused by generally slower snap weapons and higher enemy stats. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 03:37, 20 June 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Weirdly, I'm pretty sure that ALIEN HWP/SWP/4squares will trigger X-com reaction fire. How does the game differentiate xcom soldiers, aliens, civilians, 4 square aliens, and SWPs? [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 02:57, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: There's enough information in the unitref/unitpos tables for the game to differentiate what unit's what and what sort of characteristics they possess. It might also have its own hardcoded ideas of what certain unit types are capable of (such as tentaculats being able to zombify when the AI uses its built-in melee attack command). <br />
<br />
::: I think there are two similar but separate reaction fire handlers. One that works during your turn and the other that works during the AI's turn. It's not apparent in TFTD due to the lack of auto weapons, but the AI controlled units get to choose auto-shots as a response in addition to the usual snaps. During the AI's turn, your reaction fire modes will only ever go with snapshots. This is what leads me to think that your reaction fire rules and the AI's rules are handled separately. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 04:09, 23 June 2009 (EDT) <br />
<br />
<br />
: Well NKF that sounds slightly better - so do you think it's fixable? I guess for that we need to wait until Seb76, or some other enterprising coder, tackles TFTD. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 11:51, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Seb76 has done leaps and bounds, if not miracles, with his loader so far so I wouldn't be surprised if it evolves enough to eventually reroute the reaction fire handler to a better one. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 04:09, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
I've just played my TFTD, I shot a Lobsterman with my Displacer Gauss from within his sight radius and he returned fire twice, and in fact killed my displacer. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 20:47, 6 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Are SWS worth it in TFTD? ==<br />
<br />
From my recent playing experience on Superhuman, the answer is a resounding YES.<br />
<br />
Firstly, when you are starting out, the survivability of the tanks is immense. Soldiers cannot even compare their armor and HP, even with Aqua Plastic Armor and Medi-Kits and getting HP from combat experience. As for Displacers, they have 12 less armor on the front than Magnetic Ion Armor, but much more armor on all other locations. And they have HUGE HP. They are much more likely to survive a severe beating than an Aquanaut, and in the event they do survive, they are immediately repaired at base, compared to Aquanaut's being weeks in hospital.<br />
<br />
Tanks are also immune to MC and morale failure. (unless they kill aquanauts by accident). This is VERY useful before you get MC labs.<br />
<br />
Tanks are immune to zombification. Considering the huge boost that Tentaculats got compared to Chrysalids (flying and extra 20 reactions and much harder to kill), having units that are immune to Tentaculats is a HUGE advantage during missions where they reside. Also, TFTD generally has more hard to destroy nooks and crannies where Tentaculats love to hide. A tentaculat CAN damage a Displacer, but usually won't be able to kill it in 1 turn. I believe that Superhuman Tentaculats can mangle Coelanths quite efficiently. A zombification attack has a 100% chance of zombifying an aquanaut, making it the deadliest attack in the game, other than a DPL to a group of aquanauts. Also, Sonic Cannons lack of autoshot and super high TUs mean that a soldier will almost always not have enough TU to kill a zombie AND the resulting Tentaculat in 1 turn. If you have 2 soldiers in a group, and a tentaculat manages to get one of them, the other soldier is pretty much doomed. Whereas in EU, he could probably autoshot the zombie and then kill the Chrysalid in the same turn.<br />
<br />
Tanks have better stats than rookies. In fact it takes quite long to get your soldiers better stats than a displacer.<br />
<br />
Tanks regain full energy every turn. This is more important than in EU, because the maps are so much larger.<br />
<br />
The tank will only cost you 400k ONCE. As long as it survives, there is no monthly salary, like soldiers would have. The fact that a tank is much more likely to survive multiple months compared to soldiers helps too.<br />
<br />
PWT Displacers are much weaker than a DPL armed soldier. However a D/PWT can carry 8 PWT without using any item space whereas the soldier would use up 8 item slots to carry 1 DPL and 7 ammo. That's 10% of your item limit.<br />
<br />
Tanks SAVE ITEM SLOTS. It wasn't as big a problem in EU, where lasers have infinite ammo and Heavy Plasmas have 35 shots, but in TFTD, those 10 shots per Sonic Cannon Ammo do not get very far. You definitely need some reloads for each gun you bring into play.<br />
<br />
Tank weakness: Cannot use M.C. Disrupters. Tanks also cannot fit through 1 space doorways.<br />
<br />
[[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 20:47, 6 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Been playing a multiplayer game of TFTD recently and I have to say the SWS rock. They are not a necessity, but even the (unmodified) Gas Cannon Coelacanth is a fantastic machine for assisting (but not replacing) rookies at the start of the game. Cost-wise they're prohibitive, but that's less of a problem as you play. The Sonic Displacer is a truly valuable machine, and not just because it can fly on land. <br />
<br />
: I still haven't fully worked out what their game is with respect to enemy reaction fire though, as they seem to follow slightly different rules than the tanks in UFO from observation. I mean, look at their reactions and compare how often the Coelacanths attract reaction fire compared to 4 throw-away rookies with unpredictable reaction levels. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 22:33, 6 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Multiplayer TFTD? How do you play that? Hot seat style controlling only the humans?<br />
<br />
:: The Sonic Displacer can fly on land??? Really? I can't make mine fly during a base defence mission, could you double check this please?<br />
<br />
:: I don't know how often rookies and tanks draw reaction fire. In fact, during my early playthroughs, I did not know that soldiers could shoot at stuff which they did not "acquire" and only shot at enemies with the flashing number on them. Ever since learning that you could snipe at enemies from far away, and that doing so meant that enemies could NOT reaction fire was a HUGE gamechanger for me. So, nowadays, I typically have the tanks as spotters and the troops just snipe at enemies from across the map. Oh yeah, it's weird how there's not much difference in accuracy between a target 20 tiles away and 30 tiles away... [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 23:05, 6 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: Multiplayer TFTD as in "[http://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/Aquatoid-Sushi-and-Lobsterburger-t8698.html pass the parcel]" with the save-game. Worth pointing out that I've played through my last three or four missions by having a tank fly around and the rest of the squad sniping. TFTD maps are typically featureless, so it's usually possible to snipe from pretty much any point ''to'' any point.<br />
<br />
::: TFTD tanks can indeed fly on land, including base defense missions. Though pretty much the only areas where theres ''room'' to fly in your base would be the sub-pens. - <span style="font-size:xx-small">&nbsp;[[User:Bomb_Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] ([[User_talk:Bomb_Bloke|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Bomb_Bloke|Contribs]])</span> 23:21, 6 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
For the purpose of this discussion, can people clarify if they are using SWS buffed by XComUtil, or plain vanilla SWS. It makes a big difference as far as the weaker Coelecanth chassis is concerned. Nonetheless I tend to agree with Jasonred's arguments that the tougher aliens, tougher maps, lower aquanaut life expectancy and relatively tighter ammo carrying capacity improve the value of the TFTD SWS compared to the EU HWP. I tend to use them in TFTD and tend not to use them in EU. [[User:Spike|Spike]] 14:16, 8 May 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Isn't buffing the SWS with XComUtil cheating? I mean, SWS are already pretty strong, why do they get a massive buff? You might as well make Dart Pistols have infinite ammo, high accuracy, and do 200 damage... In the case of EU, I might see that an Xcom commander might insist on mounting the HWS Laser Cannon onto a flying chassis solely for it's ability to kill sectopods, but I don't see any reason for a Gauss, harpoon, or torpedo Displacer. [[User:Jasonred|Jasonred]] 15:18, 8 May 2011 (EDT)</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Alien_Colony_Attack_Mission&diff=33579Alien Colony Attack Mission2011-05-08T19:06:53Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{REWRITE NEEDED}}<br />
<br />
==Overview==<br />
<br />
A colony assault is a two part mission:<br />
* The first part takes place on the (dark) sea bed. The centre of the map contains the main colony building and there are several small outlying buildings, including four towers at each corner and a long structure along the west and east edges of the map.<br />
* The second part takes place in a labyrinthine four-level bunker beneath the sea bed.<br />
<br />
Colony assaults are one of the few regular missions in which aquanauts are guaranteed to face the dreaded [[Tentaculat]]. This, and some other reasons, make Colony Assaults the regular mission type that is most likely to cause deaths among your aquanauts.<br />
<br />
==Part One (Sea Bed)==<br />
<br />
The aim of the first part of the mission is to get your team to the lift at the centre of the main building, so they can descend to the base below and complete the second part, or to defeat all aliens. Note that you will always fight in pitch darkness no matter what time of day you launch the mission, a big disadvantage against the aliens who see in the dark.<br />
<br />
In Part One expect the follow aliens:<br />
<br />
* [[Hallucinoid]]s<br />
* [[Aquatoid]]s<br />
* [[Tasoth]]s<br />
* [[Tentaculat]]s<br />
<br />
There will be senior ranking Aquatoids and Tasoth &mdash; and they will be happy to use [[Molecular Control|M.C.]] and [[Disruptor Pulse Launcher]]s to make short work of your assault team.<br />
<br />
The types of aliens will differ between phases - although, Tentaculats are more of a problem in low visibility corridors underground.<br />
<br />
You can profitably succeed in the first phase, and in the 2nd phase rush your aquanauts from wherever they ended up back to the exit points before aborting the mission, if you want to repeatedly harvest technology from the alien base. Or if you have specific objectives in mind, just grab what equipment or live specimens that you need, bring it back to the transport and make a dash for it. <br />
<br />
===Possible Tactics===<br />
* Take along a [[Submersible Weapons Systems|SWS]] and use it for scouting (perhaps with some sniper support). Since it is quite resistant to Tentaculat and Hallucinoid attacks this can usefully reduce the threat to your aquanauts.<br />
* The double doors of the central structure allow you to get your SWS to the central lift area. Do this to get sight of the (many) aliens that will be there, and then use M.C. <br />
* There will be aliens with Disruptor Pulse Launchers on the balcony overlooking the central lift. Use M.C. on them and have a blast fest.<br />
* The central base structure is the destination, and can be entered via holes created by DPL missiles. These are also very handy for clearing the upper level gallery in this structure. If torpedoes are in abundance, use them freely on the DPL gallery.<br />
* The northern T shaped tower of the main facility usually houses Tentaculats. They are a good candidate for shelling with a few DPL torpedoes - however you need to be thorough or else the shelling will provide them with a particle cloud as well as additional exits for any not killed in the blast. <br />
* Tentaculats have a huge number of Time Units. Use M.C. on them if you want an effective temporary scout. Be aware, however, that they have very high M.C. strength. Only aquanauts of exceptional M.C. ability (80+ strength and 70+ skill should be enough) should try this.<br />
* In the Beginning, before having the M.C.-Lab, your Aquanauts are extremely prone to M.C.-Attacks. It can easily happen that half your squad is under alien control before you come near the elevator. One possilbe tactic can be to make a small team of M.C.-resistent aquanauts ( could be as few as 2-3 ) and leave everyone else at home. Take as many Sonic Pulsers and DPL's ( if available ) as possible plus some strong guns ( ie Sonic Cannon ) and melee-weapons ( for the second part ). Now ignore the corridors and blast your way through the wall ( using either sonic pulsers or the DPL ) and just rush for the elevator. Assuming you don't want to completely eradicate the base ( meaning killing all the aliens in the second part of Colony Assault ), using a small tactical team can take care of the alien colony in a matter of a few minutes ( given the fact that you know how to quickly find the synonium device )<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Equipment Recovery == <br />
<br />
Depending on what version your game has been patched to, equipment recovery will differ slightly. <br />
<br />
'''TFTD v1.0''' <br />
<br />
Only Equipment carried on your aquanauts will be carried over when you move to the second phase. Leaving the first mission by way of the submarine on the other hand will not result in equipment loss. <br />
<br />
When you move to the 2nd part, all equipment that is left on the ground is lost. This includes what is on the floor in the troop-transport sub. Though not immediately apparent with alien harvested equipment, it is very noticeable with purchased equipment. <br />
<br />
'''TFTD V2.0''' <br />
<br />
With the v2.0 patch, the item recovery bug is fixed. Now, as long as you clear the first map, all equipment on the ground will be recovered. This is true even if you abort the second half rather than complete it. This makes it a viable way to harvest equipment by clearing the first map and aborting the second. <br />
<br />
<br />
Additionally, in all versions, live aliens that you may have picked up will only transfer the body across to the 2nd part, not the stats associated with it. In effect, the alien is killed when the 2nd level starts. If you need to capture any particular alien from the first stage, retreat to the sub and dust off to recover the specimen. You can always re-attempt the colony if you wish to destroy it. <br />
<br />
==Part Two (Beneath the Sea Bed)==<br />
<br />
Some aquanauts will start scattered deep into the colony at the start of the second phase. This is often deadly, since they can start off surrounded by several tentaculats or lobstermen, the only species which guard this stage. The stage is completely filled with winding corridors, doorways, nooks and crannies, and is pretty much super effective ambush territory for tentaculats. Unlike EU, where the exit areas were only accesible via a 4 tile grav lift, the exit areas here are completely open to incursion from alien forces.<br />
<br />
Your target is the Synomium device in the command center on the lowest level. It will be guarded by Lobstermen, including at least one Commander. Bringing multiple thermal shok grenades is recommended for kidnapping one. Destroying the device can easily be accomplished by sending high explosives such as the [[Disrupter Pulse Launcher]] or [[Sonic Pulser]] through the one tile hole above the room containing the device. <br />
<br />
Due to the size of the base, it may be more practical to pick up an unconscious Commander and carry him out of the base manually than to find and kill every alien. Keep in mind that corpses and unconscious aliens are quite heavy. Additionally, Stunned aliens can regain consciousness and unarmed Lobstermen can fight back with their powerful melee attacks. <br />
<br />
===Possible Tactics===<br />
<br />
'''Equip Screen Phase''':<br />
<br />
When the equipment screen appears between the two levels, it is a good idea to:<br />
<br />
*Bring out close combat weapons on all aquanauts that have them. This is because Lobstermen are all over the place in the lower level, and they are weak to both Thermal Tasers and Drills. [[Vibro Blade]]s are best because they use very little T.U.s and can kill most Lobstermen in one hit.<br />
*Switch to smaller weapons. This is because there are lots of small rooms and narrow passages inside the base, and you will end up using most of your T.U.s just moving between them. Large weapons lose accuracy if you are holding a close combat weapon, use up a lot of T.U.s and leave you vulnerable if you find yourself up against multiple enemies in close quarters. [[Sonic Pistol]]s are best because it is accurate, powerful, small and quick to use. Though not effective against Lobstermen, a few shots will kill a Tentaculat.<br />
*If you want to capture a Lobsterman Commander without clearing the entire base, assault the Control Centre with an aquanaut holding a [[Thermal Shok Launcher]] in one hand and a Sonic Pistol in the other. This is because a single Thermal Shok Bomb might not be enough to stun a healthy Commander, but a Sonic Pistol shot before or after it should guarantee a KO. <br />
** If unsure, you can always wait a turn and send a second shok bomb in before descending into the command centre.<br />
*Note that the Lobstermen in the Control Centre are always unarmed (except for their natural melee attacks, of course).<br />
<br />
'''During the mission''':<br />
<br />
*Focus your initial efforts on finding and destroying the synomium device, even if you intend to kill/capture all the aliens. This will render the mission successful even if things go pear shaped and you abort. Or worse lose all your troops.<br />
** Tip: Familiarize yourself with the layout of the rooms above the command room. The layout is best described as a theater, with the purple sphere variety of Ion Beam Accelerators filling in for the seat rows in front of a raised stage. <br />
** Tip: A single Magna-Blast Grenade is enough to destroy the Synomium Device. Shoot away part of the barrier around the observation port above it, have an Aquanaut with a primed grenade walk up and drop the grenade on top of the device, then have him walk away. On the Aliens' next turn: KABOOM. KABOOM. "Control Center Destroyed. Make your way to the exit and abort."<br />
*Use M.C. excessively. Lobstermen are usually found in small groups, wielding mostly Thermal Shok Launchers or Disruptor Pulse Launchers. Take control of them and watch the indoor fireworks display.<br />
*Leave your Molecular Controlers at the entrance. As they are your most precious aquanauts and they don't need line of sight to use M.C., it makes no sense to parade them in front of the enemy. This will also mean you can abort at any time without losing the Triton/Hammerhead/Leviathan.<br />
* Because of their effectiveness against Lobstermen, be careful not to stun your own Aquanauts with Thermal Shok Launchers when using them in close quarters. Either make sure you are wearing Ion Armor or better when operating them, or have alternative weaponry available. Reviving from a Shok bomb is often a tedious exercise, even with the assistance of medication. <br />
<br />
'''After Disabling the Synonium Device''': <br />
<br />
When you've disabled the base and are evacuating your team, it is recommended that: <br />
<br />
* If you choose to escape rather than complete the map, gather up what equipment you can to make the trip financially worthwhile as you lose everything in the first part that you aren't carrying. <br />
* Haul an unconscious Lobsterman commander back to the exit, if you have not captured one. You need one to complete the game, and a second for convenience if a Navigator is not forthcoming. <br />
**You can use MC to persuade the Commander to the exit - but make sure that it is physically stunned before you abort. Otherwise you will only recover the equipment it was previously carrying. <br />
* Wake up any stunned Aquanauts. Even if in the exit area, they will be treated as MIA if they are still unconscious at the time you abort the mission.<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
{{Mission Types Navbar (TFTD)}}<br />
[[Category: TFTD]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Zrbite&diff=33563Zrbite2011-05-07T20:48:56Z<p>Jasonred: /* Obtaining Zrbite */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Overview==<br />
{{Infobox open}}<br />
{{Infobox module/itemcommon<br />
| item =Zrbite<br />
| height =1<br />
| width = 2<br />
| weight = 3<br />
| damagethreshold = <br />
| image = [[Image:Zrbite.png|64 px]]<br />
| saleprice = 5000<br />
| research = <br />
}}<br />
{{Infobox close}}<br />
Zrbite is an unusual alloy of alien origin, part gold and part alien bio-material. When utilized as a power source, small quantities will generate more power than a nuclear unit of 10 times the size. However, due to the alien origin of the material, it cannot be synthesized...<br />
<br />
This item appears in ''[[TFTD|Terror from the Deep]]''. For the ''[[X-COM|UFO: Enemy Unknown]]'' equivalent, refer to [[Elerium-115]].<br />
<br />
== Stats ==<br />
<table><tr><td>[[Image:Zrbite.png|left|64 px]]</td><td><br />
*Size: 1 high x 2 wide<br />
*Weight: 3<br />
*Sell Price: $5000</td></tr></table><br />
<br />
== Obtaining Zrbite ==<br />
Zrbite cannot be synthesized; it can only be obtained from [[USO Assault]]s or [[Colony Assault]]s. Zrbite is housed within [[Ion-Beam Accelerators]], and is very fragile. Be careful about using explosives inside USOs, as Zrbite is easily toasted! At the end of a successful mission, any Zrbite will be automatically collected and returned to your base. Unlike Elerium, Zrbite can turn up in all sorts of places on USOs, not necessarily in the Ion Beam Accelerators.<br />
<br />
Perhaps the most efficient way to gain a stock of Zrbite is to find an Alien Base and attack the [[Fleet Supply Cruiser]]s as they land nearby. Leave the base intact to attract more supply ships, as the Zrbite is worth more than the score penalty (150 units per intact Fleet Supply Cruiser). <br />
<br />
On the map, Zrbite appears as a golden ball on the ground. In your inventory, it appears as a golden crystal. This object is worth 50 points of Zrbite.<br />
<br />
== Uses ==<br />
'''Don't sell Zrbite.''' Although you do have the option to do so, this is to be highly discouraged. It is used to fuel the [[Manta]], the [[Hammerhead]], and the [[Leviathan]]. It is also used, in varying amounts, to [[manufacture]] most [[Alien_Artefacts_(TFTD)|Alien Artefact]]s, [[Ion Armor]] and [[Magnetic Ion Armor]]s, [[Sonic Oscillator]]s, and various other technologies. Given that you can only obtain Zrbite on the battlefield, selling it is not a good idea. If you choose to, it will fetch you $5,000 per unit.<br />
<br />
== Trivia ==<br />
<br />
What is the mass of 1 unit of Zrbite? ... using a similiar drag equation used for calculating the mass of 1 unit of Elerium, you get... er... you know what? Forget it. A craft with those sort of hydrodynamic qualities, travelling at 5800 knots, underwater??? Based on the mass of a Battleship, the aliens wouldn't need to perform Terror Missions... just having their craft travel around near the coast would create Tsunamis that would create ridiculous coastal damage.<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
{{Equipment (TFTD) Navbar}}<br />
<br />
{{USO Navbar}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:USO Components]][[Category:Research (TFTD)]][[Category:Equipment (TFTD)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Ion-Beam_Accelerators&diff=33562Ion-Beam Accelerators2011-05-07T20:46:47Z<p>Jasonred: /* General Information */</p>
<hr />
<div>== General Information == <br />
<br />
{{Ref Open}}<br />
'''Ion Beam Accelerators Official Entry''' <br />
<p style ="text-indent:1em;">''"Alien flying submarines rely on complex power systems to drive them at incredible speed through the deeps. The basis for their technology is the ION DISPLACER, utilising Zrbite as a catalyst, the engines displae 100 times their own volume in water per second. This enormous power means that the aiens' are capable of outrunning most Earth subs. We can replicate this system of propulsion using aqua-plastics and Zrbite power cells."''</p><br />
{{Ref Close | Source : Terror From the Deep Ufopaedia}}<br />
<br />
<br clear="all"><br />
[[Image:Zrbite_engines.png|thumb|right|A row of Accelerators, some with Zrbite crystals sitting on them.]]<br />
Ion Beam Accelerators are the engines for propulsion of all Alien craft. <br />
Unless shot down, expect to always see one on every enemy sub. They can also be found stored in the interior evirons of an [[Colony Assault|Alien Colony]]. Ion Beam Accelerators are a crucial component for researching and producing advanced submarines and [[Ion Armor]]. <br />
<br />
Some Ion Beam Accelerators contain [[Zrbite]] clusters that are worth 50 units of Zrbite. Identifiable by a yellow bar/ovoid superimposed over the southeast wall of the Ion Beam Accelerator. Basically, the IBA is a tile, the Zrbite is an object, so the object (Zrbite) will appear on top of the tile (IBA). Ion Beam Accelerators explode when damaged; and being the the only means of obtaining Zrbite, try not destroy these just to kill nearby aliens. IBAs explode when damaged in an unusual pattern: They have a very small blast radius, but the force of the explosion is strong enough to destroy a USO's outer hull, and yet can leave an aquanaut standing next to the IBA unharmed from the blast.<br />
This item appears in ''[[TFTD|Terror from the Deep]]''. For the ''[[X-COM|UFO: Enemy Unknown]]'' equivalent, refer to [[UFO Power Source]].<br />
<br />
== Notes ==<br />
<br />
* Ion Beam Accelerators cannot be manufactured in TFTD V1.0. They can be manufactured after being patched with the v2.0 update. The Collectors Edition of the game is v2.0 by default. <br />
<br />
* Because of their explosive nature, the trick in Enemy Unknown where you could liberate power units of their fuel by destroying them is no longer possible. <br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
{{USO Navbar}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:USO Components]][[Category:Research (TFTD)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Ion-Beam_Accelerators&diff=33561Ion-Beam Accelerators2011-05-07T20:33:12Z<p>Jasonred: /* General Information */</p>
<hr />
<div>== General Information == <br />
<br />
{{Ref Open}}<br />
'''Ion Beam Accelerators Official Entry''' <br />
<p style ="text-indent:1em;">''"Alien flying submarines rely on complex power systems to drive them at incredible speed through the deeps. The basis for their technology is the ION DISPLACER, utilising Zrbite as a catalyst, the engines displae 100 times their own volume in water per second. This enormous power means that the aiens' are capable of outrunning most Earth subs. We can replicate this system of propulsion using aqua-plastics and Zrbite power cells."''</p><br />
{{Ref Close | Source : Terror From the Deep Ufopaedia}}<br />
<br />
<br clear="all"><br />
[[Image:Zrbite_engines.png|thumb|right|A row of Accelerators, some with Zrbite crystals sitting on them.]]<br />
Ion Beam Accelerators are the engines for propulsion of all Alien craft. <br />
Unless shot down, expect to always see one on every enemy sub. They can also be found stored in the interior evirons of an [[Colony Assault|Alien Colony]]. Ion Beam Accelerators are a crucial component for researching and producing advanced submarines and [[Ion Armor]]. <br />
<br />
Some Ion Beam Accelerators contain [[Zrbite]] clusters that are worth 50 units of Zrbite. Identifiable by a yellow bar/ovoid superimposed over the base of the Ion Beam Accelerator. Basically, the IBA is a tile, the Zrbite is an object, so the object (Zrbite) will appear on top of the tile (IBA). Ion Beam Accelerators explode when damaged; and being the the only means of obtaining Zrbite, try not destroy these just to kill nearby aliens. IBAs explode when damaged in an unusual pattern: They have a very small blast radius, but the force of the explosion is strong enough to destroy a USO's outer hull, and yet can leave an aquanaut standing next to the IBA unharmed from the blast.<br />
This item appears in ''[[TFTD|Terror from the Deep]]''. For the ''[[X-COM|UFO: Enemy Unknown]]'' equivalent, refer to [[UFO Power Source]].<br />
<br />
== Notes ==<br />
<br />
* Ion Beam Accelerators cannot be manufactured in TFTD V1.0. They can be manufactured after being patched with the v2.0 update. The Collectors Edition of the game is v2.0 by default. <br />
<br />
* Because of their explosive nature, the trick in Enemy Unknown where you could liberate power units of their fuel by destroying them is no longer possible. <br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
{{USO Navbar}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:USO Components]][[Category:Research (TFTD)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=File_talk:DreadnoughtL3.gif&diff=33560File talk:DreadnoughtL3.gif2011-05-07T20:31:09Z<p>Jasonred: AHA! The elusive Magnetic Navigations in the Dreadnought!</p>
<hr />
<div>THERE, IN THE COMMAND CENTRE! I'm fairly certain that those are 2 Magnetic Navigations sitting there on either side of the learning arrays!</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Ion-Beam_Accelerators&diff=33559Ion-Beam Accelerators2011-05-07T20:23:18Z<p>Jasonred: Zrbite and explosions</p>
<hr />
<div>== General Information == <br />
<br />
{{Ref Open}}<br />
'''Ion Beam Accelerators Official Entry''' <br />
<p style ="text-indent:1em;">''"Alien flying submarines rely on complex power systems to drive them at incredible speed through the deeps. The basis for their technology is the ION DISPLACER, utilising Zrbite as a catalyst, the engines displae 100 times their own volume in water per second. This enormous power means that the aiens' are capable of outrunning most Earth subs. We can replicate this system of propulsion using aqua-plastics and Zrbite power cells."''</p><br />
{{Ref Close | Source : Terror From the Deep Ufopaedia}}<br />
<br />
<br clear="all"><br />
[[Image:Zrbite_engines.png|thumb|right|A row of Accelerators, some with Zrbite crystals sitting on them.]]<br />
Ion Beam Accelerators are the engines for propulsion of all Alien craft. <br />
Unless shot down, expect to always see one on every enemy sub. They can also be found stored in the interior evirons of an [[Colony Assault|Alien Colony]]. Ion Beam Accelerators are a crucial component for researching and producing advanced submarines and [[Ion Armor]]. <br />
<br />
Some Ion Beam Accelerators contain [[Zrbite]] clusters that are worth 50 units of Zrbite. Identifiable by a yellow bar/ovoid superimposed over the base of the Ion Beam Accelerator. Basically, the IBA is a tile, the Zrbite is an object, so the object (Zrbite) will appear on top of the tile (IBA). Ion Beam Accelerators explode when damaged; and being the the only means of obtaining Zrbite, try not destroy these just to kill nearby aliens. IBAs explode when damaged in an unusual pattern: They only have a 1 tile blast radius, but the force of the explosion is (maybe) that of a sonic pulsar.<br />
<br />
This item appears in ''[[TFTD|Terror from the Deep]]''. For the ''[[X-COM|UFO: Enemy Unknown]]'' equivalent, refer to [[UFO Power Source]].<br />
<br />
== Notes ==<br />
<br />
* Ion Beam Accelerators cannot be manufactured in TFTD V1.0. They can be manufactured after being patched with the v2.0 update. The Collectors Edition of the game is v2.0 by default. <br />
<br />
* Because of their explosive nature, the trick in Enemy Unknown where you could liberate power units of their fuel by destroying them is no longer possible. <br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
{{USO Navbar}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:USO Components]][[Category:Research (TFTD)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Cruiser&diff=33550Cruiser2011-05-07T09:42:25Z<p>Jasonred: /* General Information */</p>
<hr />
<div>==General Information==<br />
The Cruiser is a general purpose craft, the mainstay of the Alien fleet, it is used in all types of Alien missions and is a dangerous adversary.<br />
<br />
This ship appears in ''[[TFTD|Terror from the Deep]]''. For the ''[[X-COM|UFO: Enemy Unknown]]'' equivalent, refer to the [[Large Scout]].<br />
<br />
It appears to be modelled after a manta ray.<br />
<br />
==Statistics==<br />
[[Image:Cruiser.gif|right]]<br />
Damage capacity: 300<br />
<br />
Weapon Power: 25<br />
<br />
Weapon Range: 280 units (35 km)<br />
<br />
Maximum Speed: 2600 knots<br />
<br />
==Additional Information==<br />
<br />
==Recoverable Components==<br />
<table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left">Item</th><br />
<th>Sell Price</th><br />
<th>Quantity</th><br />
<th>Value</th></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Ion Beam Accelerators</td><td>$250,000</td><td>2</td><td>$500,000</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Magnetic Navigation</td><td>$80,000</td><td>2</td><td>$160,000</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Alien Sub Construction</td><td>$20,000</td><td>1</td><td>$20,000</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Alien Cryogenics</td><td>$5,000</td><td>0</td><td>$0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Alien Cloning</td><td>$40,000</td><td>0</td><td>$0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Alien Learning Arrays</td><td>$20,000</td><td>2</td><td>$40,000</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Alien Implanter</td><td>$38,000</td><td>0</td><td>$0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Examination Room</td><td>$9,000</td><td>0</td><td>$0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Alien Re-Animation Zone</td><td>$100</td><td>0</td><td>$0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Aqua Plastics</td><td>$6,500</td><td>35</td><td>$227,500</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Zrbite</td><td>$5,000</td><td>50</td><td>$250,000</td></tr><br />
<tr><th colspan="3">Totals</th><td>$1,197,500</td></tr><br />
</table><br /><br />
<br />
The Zrbite is located in the "tail" of the ship, in the righthand ball shaped object; NOT in the Ion Beam Accelerator.<br />
<br />
==Alien Deployment==<br />
<table width="100%" cellpadding="5"><tr><br />
<br />
<td><table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<caption><b>Aquatoids</b></caption><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left">Rank</th><br />
<th>Beg./Exp.</th><br />
<th>Vet./Gen.</th><br />
<th>Super.</th></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Soldiers</td><td>1-6</td><td>2-7</td><td>3-8</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Squad Leaders</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Technicians</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Medics</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2*</td><td>2-3</td><tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Navigators</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Commanders</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Terrorists</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><th>Totals</th><td>3-10</td><td>4-11</td><td>6-13</td></tr><br />
</table></td><br />
<br />
<td><table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<caption><b>Gillmen</b></caption><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left">Rank</th><br />
<th>Beg./Exp.</th><br />
<th>Vet./Gen.</th><br />
<th>Super.</th></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Soldiers</td><td>1-6</td><td>2-7</td><td>3-8</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Squad Leaders</td><td>2-4</td><td>2-4*</td><td>3-5</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Technicians</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Medics</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Navigators</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Commanders</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Terrorists</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><th>Totals</th><td>3-10</td><td>4-11</td><td>6-13</td></tr><br />
</table></td><br />
<br />
<td><table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<caption><b>Tasoths</b></caption><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left">Rank</th><br />
<th>Beg./Exp.</th><br />
<th>Vet./Gen.</th><br />
<th>Super.</th></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Soldiers</td><td>2-8</td><td>3-9*</td><td>5-11</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Squad Leaders</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Technicians</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Medics</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Navigators</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Commanders</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Terrorists</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><th>Totals</th><td>3-10</td><td>4-11</td><td>6-13</td></tr><br />
</table></td><br />
<br />
<td><table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<caption><b>Lobstermen</b></caption><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left">Rank</th><br />
<th>Beg./Exp.</th><br />
<th>Vet./Gen.</th><br />
<th>Super.</th></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Soldiers</td><td>1-6</td><td>2-7</td><td>3-8</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Squad Leaders</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Technicians</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2*</td><td>2-3</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Medics</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Navigators</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Commanders</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Terrorists</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><th>Totals</th><td>3-10</td><td>4-11</td><td>6-13</td></tr><br />
</table></td><br />
</tr></table><br />
<nowiki>* Needs testing to determine actual number.</nowiki><br />
<br />
==Floor Plan==<br />
<gallery widths="150px" heights="120px"><br />
Image:Cruiser_FloorPlan_L0.png|Level 0<br />
Image:Cruiser_FloorPlan_L1.png|Level 1<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==Terrain Maps==<br />
<gallery widths="150px" heights="120px"><br />
Image:CruiserL1.gif|Level 0<br />
Image:CruiserL2.gif|Level 1<br />
</gallery><br />
<br /><br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
{{USO Navbar}}<br />
<br />
[[Category: USOs (TFTD)]][[Category: Research (TFTD)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Cruiser&diff=33549Cruiser2011-05-07T09:41:44Z<p>Jasonred: Zrbite location</p>
<hr />
<div>==General Information==<br />
The Cruiser is a general purpose craft, the mainstay of the Alien fleet, it is used in all types of Alien missions and is a dangerous adversary.<br />
<br />
This ship appears in ''[[TFTD|Terror from the Deep]]''. For the ''[[X-COM|UFO: Enemy Unknown]]'' equivalent, refer to the [[Large Scout]].<br />
<br />
==Statistics==<br />
[[Image:Cruiser.gif|right]]<br />
Damage capacity: 300<br />
<br />
Weapon Power: 25<br />
<br />
Weapon Range: 280 units (35 km)<br />
<br />
Maximum Speed: 2600 knots<br />
<br />
==Additional Information==<br />
<br />
==Recoverable Components==<br />
<table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left">Item</th><br />
<th>Sell Price</th><br />
<th>Quantity</th><br />
<th>Value</th></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Ion Beam Accelerators</td><td>$250,000</td><td>2</td><td>$500,000</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Magnetic Navigation</td><td>$80,000</td><td>2</td><td>$160,000</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Alien Sub Construction</td><td>$20,000</td><td>1</td><td>$20,000</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Alien Cryogenics</td><td>$5,000</td><td>0</td><td>$0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Alien Cloning</td><td>$40,000</td><td>0</td><td>$0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Alien Learning Arrays</td><td>$20,000</td><td>2</td><td>$40,000</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Alien Implanter</td><td>$38,000</td><td>0</td><td>$0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Examination Room</td><td>$9,000</td><td>0</td><td>$0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Alien Re-Animation Zone</td><td>$100</td><td>0</td><td>$0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Aqua Plastics</td><td>$6,500</td><td>35</td><td>$227,500</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Zrbite</td><td>$5,000</td><td>50</td><td>$250,000</td></tr><br />
<tr><th colspan="3">Totals</th><td>$1,197,500</td></tr><br />
</table><br /><br />
<br />
The Zrbite is located in the "tail" of the ship, in the righthand ball shaped object; NOT in the Ion Beam Accelerator.<br />
<br />
==Alien Deployment==<br />
<table width="100%" cellpadding="5"><tr><br />
<br />
<td><table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<caption><b>Aquatoids</b></caption><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left">Rank</th><br />
<th>Beg./Exp.</th><br />
<th>Vet./Gen.</th><br />
<th>Super.</th></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Soldiers</td><td>1-6</td><td>2-7</td><td>3-8</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Squad Leaders</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Technicians</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Medics</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2*</td><td>2-3</td><tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Navigators</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Commanders</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Terrorists</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><th>Totals</th><td>3-10</td><td>4-11</td><td>6-13</td></tr><br />
</table></td><br />
<br />
<td><table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<caption><b>Gillmen</b></caption><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left">Rank</th><br />
<th>Beg./Exp.</th><br />
<th>Vet./Gen.</th><br />
<th>Super.</th></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Soldiers</td><td>1-6</td><td>2-7</td><td>3-8</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Squad Leaders</td><td>2-4</td><td>2-4*</td><td>3-5</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Technicians</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Medics</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Navigators</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Commanders</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Terrorists</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><th>Totals</th><td>3-10</td><td>4-11</td><td>6-13</td></tr><br />
</table></td><br />
<br />
<td><table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<caption><b>Tasoths</b></caption><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left">Rank</th><br />
<th>Beg./Exp.</th><br />
<th>Vet./Gen.</th><br />
<th>Super.</th></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Soldiers</td><td>2-8</td><td>3-9*</td><td>5-11</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Squad Leaders</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Technicians</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Medics</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Navigators</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Commanders</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Terrorists</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><th>Totals</th><td>3-10</td><td>4-11</td><td>6-13</td></tr><br />
</table></td><br />
<br />
<td><table {{StdCenterTable}}><br />
<caption><b>Lobstermen</b></caption><br />
<tr {{StdDescTable_Heading}}><th align="left">Rank</th><br />
<th>Beg./Exp.</th><br />
<th>Vet./Gen.</th><br />
<th>Super.</th></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Soldiers</td><td>1-6</td><td>2-7</td><td>3-8</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Squad Leaders</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Technicians</td><td>1-2</td><td>1-2*</td><td>2-3</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Medics</td><td>-</td><td>-</td><td>-</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Navigators</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Commanders</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><td align="left">Terrorists</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><br />
<tr><th>Totals</th><td>3-10</td><td>4-11</td><td>6-13</td></tr><br />
</table></td><br />
</tr></table><br />
<nowiki>* Needs testing to determine actual number.</nowiki><br />
<br />
==Floor Plan==<br />
<gallery widths="150px" heights="120px"><br />
Image:Cruiser_FloorPlan_L0.png|Level 0<br />
Image:Cruiser_FloorPlan_L1.png|Level 1<br />
</gallery><br />
<br />
==Terrain Maps==<br />
<gallery widths="150px" heights="120px"><br />
Image:CruiserL1.gif|Level 0<br />
Image:CruiserL2.gif|Level 1<br />
</gallery><br />
<br /><br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
{{USO Navbar}}<br />
<br />
[[Category: USOs (TFTD)]][[Category: Research (TFTD)]]</div>Jasonredhttps://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Talk:Ion-Beam_Accelerators&diff=33548Talk:Ion-Beam Accelerators2011-05-07T06:48:09Z<p>Jasonred: </p>
<hr />
<div>So only the ones that face South count? [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] 21:18, 12 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
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Can you produce them? On my game (v1 unpatched) I just discovered that I can't manufacture any of them! [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 11:54, 4 January 2011 (EST)<br />
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: I had this sneaking suspicion that it was the other way around, with them being available for manufacture in v1.0, and then disappearing after patching to v2.0. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 14:47, 4 January 2011 (EST)<br />
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:: Addendum: Just did a quick test with v1.0 and v2.0, and you're right. You can't manufacture them in v1.0, but can in v2.0. Strange indeed. I'll update the description to reflect that. -[[User:NKF|NKF]] 14:53, 4 January 2011 (EST)<br />
:: I checked my version 2.1 with dye grenade and small uso patch - I am not able to manufacture IBAs. --[[User:Tauon|Tauon]] 09:12, 13 January 2011 (EST)<br />
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::: I can't manufacture them either.<br />
::: BTW, can someone post a screenie of IBA with Zrbite and IBA without Zrbite, so some of us can find out what you're talking about? Cause the IBAs all look the same to me...</div>Jasonred