File talk:Ideal Base EW.jpeg
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Can you take a pic of the Finances screen? I'm wondering how much maintenance upkeep you'd pay for such a base. Hobbes (talk) 13:07, 21 May 2014 (EDT)
- Asking just out of curiosity, or should put it up? *checks* On Classic: §3022 a month, started in Africa, three countries above §200, and only two §70s and a §80 for the lows: New Economy was kind to me this playthrough. §580/mo on Facilities (Expert Knowledge satt bonus helping), and it was twards the end that I maxed out my fleet at §85/mo (had plenty of Power Sources but was always low on NavComs-- usually my plays are the other way around). Hm, now that I think about it: not once have I ever had the problem of my upkeep being more than my income, and only once do I think I got that notice, when I had that "perfect" Impossible EW run where I got two Uplinks built in the first month. Oh, and I rush for Workshop adjacency bonuses for the refund on all builds. And I do admit: I change difficulties to cheat Power requirements, and savescum for good Council Requests/Rewards. --Xuncu (talk) 05:53, 22 May 2014 (EDT)
- §580 with Expert Knowledge, so without Expert Knowledge that would be §40 (lifts) + §82 (uplinks) + §92 (labs) + §196 (workshops) + §81 (power) + §178 (rest) for a total of §669 per month on upkeep. So, §196 per month to get 99% rebate on engineering projects although the opportunity costs should also be factored in. To build 6 Workshops + Foundry + MEC it requires €905 (less actually since rebates start applying after the 1st adjacency is established) plus the §196, but at the same time you can't wait for all facilities to be completed before manufacturing Titan or plasma weapons... so by the time all these workshops are completed it's likely you won't save that much since most of the advanced gear is already manufactured. I'm digressing but there should be an optimal number of workshops taking into account all these factors, it could be as posted here but more cost analysis is needed. Hobbes (talk) 12:43, 22 May 2014 (EDT)
- This playthrough was a bit a of a speedrun (finished mid-October, though could have done late summer), had Progeny and Slingshot on, High Stakes as well, and I took 6 scientists for my 2nd Abduction reward (first one, Engies to reduce satt costs, since they take 20 days), since that halves the time on all the research projects availible at that point (and I took We Have Ways for the first coverage bonus). Play on Classic, so there's enough aliens for corpse sales and Fragment drops. I actually built those labs about last just to fill out the area, and again, this run I was low on Computers for Firestorms, but had plenty of Power Sources to sell. Also, this was a "screwing around" run, so I did set it to Easy just before the monthly report for max Engies/Sci/§, so that was a factor. In short: yeah, you can prolly say I was cheating on this run. Don't forget that Workshops help in both reducing inital Satt cost, and any Bonuses gotten in the interim also increase the rebate; plus that difficulty trick/glitch with the Power, you can get it going early-- say, by getting an early start on Meld and Experimental Warfare research (and thus, the MEC lab & Foundry) with a batch of Scientists (I took the Marazuki one for the first Council Mission, that one also gives scientists). All that works out that I was able to build Workshops/get bonus fairly quickly. If I recall right, I just built Workshops whenever I could, had rushed to that one Steam vent, had only used one regular Generator, and got bottlenecked once before getting that first Elerium Generator up, had a third Uplink, built the first Nexus about the same time as Gangplank, and the first two Workshops were those two below the Foundry and MEC lab-- so almost right away I was getting 40% rebates on builds (that is probably the biggest key to this stratigem). Also, the configuration: should note that the not-quite-3x3 'workshop block' can also work as a 2x4 collumn, so any steam vent on an edge won't go to waste (as two vents used as Thermo, and only 1 Elerium, even with both bonuses, would be a few points shy of all power needed-- hence the Power glitch/trick I usually use, since most of the time there's two steam vents-- this playthrough it only gave me the one). Anything else in particular you're wondering? --Xuncu (talk) 16:31, 22 May 2014 (EDT)
- Thanks for the description. I tend to think more in terms of Impossible so a lot won't apply but I'll see if I can work out a table to compare several Workshop configurations according to savings. The biggest gains, IMO are credits on the beginning but later the best savings are Elerium/Alloys. I tend to ran out of Elerium very quickly due to the increased requirements for weapons construction on EW. Hobbes (talk) 07:30, 23 May 2014 (EDT)
- Yeah, I think that "rush for the 40" is prolly a decent starting bet-- and depending if the user is willing to do that power cheat-- since there's helpful research involved in that, and then to pace to only building two more workshops at a time, if there is power to spare for both, so as to resist that bottleneck. Even if the player starts in Europe, the MEC and Gene lab have a lower down payment (§50 each, and the Foundry a little more than a bonus-halved Workshop at §75) than Workshops and Labratories, but higher maintenence I think, so at the very least, I think the MEC lab and Foundry are the priority investment for the things they unlock; like even a low-level MEC trooper (a MEC suit's cost doesn't lower with Engineers, right?) is very useful against the Thin Men early on, sicne they're immune to poision, and have more Armor HP. Sure, the workshops add more engineers for cheaper stuff all around, but they take up power an Impossible player may not have, while they can get like 12 Engies a month through Abduction rewards alone, and the occasional Council thing. Ergo; engineers for the down payment now, or adjacency bonuses for the refunds later?--Xuncu (talk) 01:41, 24 May 2014 (EDT)
- Extra Engineers reduce the building costs of general items but not of buildings/Foundry/Vehicles, but they reduce the needed resources to build the projects while the Workshop rebate applies only when you complete those projects, so you the starting requirements aren't lowered. For the short term Engineers are more worthwhile since you require less credits to build stuff but for the long run Workshops are more worthwhile since they also provide rebates on Alloys/Elerium. Hobbes (talk) 10:43, 25 May 2014 (EDT)
- Yeah, I think that "rush for the 40" is prolly a decent starting bet-- and depending if the user is willing to do that power cheat-- since there's helpful research involved in that, and then to pace to only building two more workshops at a time, if there is power to spare for both, so as to resist that bottleneck. Even if the player starts in Europe, the MEC and Gene lab have a lower down payment (§50 each, and the Foundry a little more than a bonus-halved Workshop at §75) than Workshops and Labratories, but higher maintenence I think, so at the very least, I think the MEC lab and Foundry are the priority investment for the things they unlock; like even a low-level MEC trooper (a MEC suit's cost doesn't lower with Engineers, right?) is very useful against the Thin Men early on, sicne they're immune to poision, and have more Armor HP. Sure, the workshops add more engineers for cheaper stuff all around, but they take up power an Impossible player may not have, while they can get like 12 Engies a month through Abduction rewards alone, and the occasional Council thing. Ergo; engineers for the down payment now, or adjacency bonuses for the refunds later?--Xuncu (talk) 01:41, 24 May 2014 (EDT)
- Thanks for the description. I tend to think more in terms of Impossible so a lot won't apply but I'll see if I can work out a table to compare several Workshop configurations according to savings. The biggest gains, IMO are credits on the beginning but later the best savings are Elerium/Alloys. I tend to ran out of Elerium very quickly due to the increased requirements for weapons construction on EW. Hobbes (talk) 07:30, 23 May 2014 (EDT)
- This playthrough was a bit a of a speedrun (finished mid-October, though could have done late summer), had Progeny and Slingshot on, High Stakes as well, and I took 6 scientists for my 2nd Abduction reward (first one, Engies to reduce satt costs, since they take 20 days), since that halves the time on all the research projects availible at that point (and I took We Have Ways for the first coverage bonus). Play on Classic, so there's enough aliens for corpse sales and Fragment drops. I actually built those labs about last just to fill out the area, and again, this run I was low on Computers for Firestorms, but had plenty of Power Sources to sell. Also, this was a "screwing around" run, so I did set it to Easy just before the monthly report for max Engies/Sci/§, so that was a factor. In short: yeah, you can prolly say I was cheating on this run. Don't forget that Workshops help in both reducing inital Satt cost, and any Bonuses gotten in the interim also increase the rebate; plus that difficulty trick/glitch with the Power, you can get it going early-- say, by getting an early start on Meld and Experimental Warfare research (and thus, the MEC lab & Foundry) with a batch of Scientists (I took the Marazuki one for the first Council Mission, that one also gives scientists). All that works out that I was able to build Workshops/get bonus fairly quickly. If I recall right, I just built Workshops whenever I could, had rushed to that one Steam vent, had only used one regular Generator, and got bottlenecked once before getting that first Elerium Generator up, had a third Uplink, built the first Nexus about the same time as Gangplank, and the first two Workshops were those two below the Foundry and MEC lab-- so almost right away I was getting 40% rebates on builds (that is probably the biggest key to this stratigem). Also, the configuration: should note that the not-quite-3x3 'workshop block' can also work as a 2x4 collumn, so any steam vent on an edge won't go to waste (as two vents used as Thermo, and only 1 Elerium, even with both bonuses, would be a few points shy of all power needed-- hence the Power glitch/trick I usually use, since most of the time there's two steam vents-- this playthrough it only gave me the one). Anything else in particular you're wondering? --Xuncu (talk) 16:31, 22 May 2014 (EDT)
- §580 with Expert Knowledge, so without Expert Knowledge that would be §40 (lifts) + §82 (uplinks) + §92 (labs) + §196 (workshops) + §81 (power) + §178 (rest) for a total of §669 per month on upkeep. So, §196 per month to get 99% rebate on engineering projects although the opportunity costs should also be factored in. To build 6 Workshops + Foundry + MEC it requires €905 (less actually since rebates start applying after the 1st adjacency is established) plus the §196, but at the same time you can't wait for all facilities to be completed before manufacturing Titan or plasma weapons... so by the time all these workshops are completed it's likely you won't save that much since most of the advanced gear is already manufactured. I'm digressing but there should be an optimal number of workshops taking into account all these factors, it could be as posted here but more cost analysis is needed. Hobbes (talk) 12:43, 22 May 2014 (EDT)
