Talk:Relations (Apocalypse)

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thinking of a new page!

listing of editors ppl use. listing of most common edits ppl make to their game (any Xcom game, not just apoc.)

just a quickie: Swap the ownership of Megapol flyers to Xcom owned, start a bombing run on the gang slums. Save game, then swap ownership back to Megapol before the cars actually starting attacking the structures.

(now give megapol an Annihilator... muhahahah!)

I've seen megapol hit pyske a few times.

- (name here)

The truth of the matter is that the relationships are dynamic and subject to change (wildly) as the game progresses. Megapol might start raiding the government for example, or some random company might decide to ally with the Cult.

Say you send a hoverbike to zap a gang base. You'll lose favour with them and their allies. If one of your shots miss and hits some other building you'll annoy it's owners/allies as well. You'll gain favour with everyone who hates those you attack.

Of course too many shots fired at a structure calls out the guards and their hits/misses will likewise mess with their relationships around the city.

But these rules apply to everyone else as well, 'cause you're not the only one who can initiate attacks. While direct building assaults aren't all that common, Megapol police vehicles are forever shooting down hovercars they don't like.

(Note that you can stop infiltration attempts by blasting cars belonging to alien affected groups).

Because the gang members attack each other all too often, sooner or later one of them is bound to ally with Megapol (who starts off hating all gangs, so a gang who attacks gangs will gain in their favour).

And Transtellar hates just about everyone who does combat in the city, because it nearly always results in one of their roads/tubes being taken out.

As the relationships get weirder, things only get "worse". Fun to watch though.

Note that you can also make enemies by doing too much damage to a building while cleaning out the aliens. The hydro farms are a good example of this, where one or two well placed shots can bring down a large part of the complex. Toxin ammo helps out a bit by leaving the furniture intact.

- Bomb Bloke 19:42, 27 October 2007 (PDT)

Working Notes -- taking on the relation update algorithm

Some early game examples:

  • 110 from cleaning up the initial alien infestation. Obviously the aliens and Cult of Sirius notice.
    • Government (alien view -51) notices, bumps my rating up by 7
    • Megapol (alien view -45) does not notice.
  • total shootdown of all three small scouts and two alien probes: 400 pts minus property damage (which is all alien-caused!)
    • Transtellar (alien view 15) still thinks less of me (rating falls by 5)
    • one organization has an alien view of 10: no effect on my rating with them.

- Zaimoni 9:42, 17 April 2008 (CDT)

Suppose Megapol shoots down a gang vehicle:

  • Megapol relation with gang: +2
  • Gang relation with Megapol: -10
  • Anyone that views the gang at -40(?) or worse, relation with Megapol: +1

Note that Megapol attacks vehicles at -50 and lower relation, and illegal flyer airstrikes against Megapol likewise appear to require -50 relation or lower (not hard-verified).

- Zaimoni 3:40, 20 Jan 2009 (CDT)

When the Megapol relation with gang goes up, does that mean Megapol likes the gang they just shot down more? o_O Arrow Quivershaft 18:03, 21 January 2009 (CST)
Megapol hates the gang less. Actual changes would be something like going from -84 to -82. The current game I'm using for testing had Megapol below -50 with Diablo (a bit unusual, usually it's Psyke). Zaimoni 11:43, 21 January 2009 (CST)
Makes a bit of sense. Megapol feel placated after their sessions of righteously smiting, so won't feel like going after the gang so badly after that. However, since the gang hates Megapol and will attack Megapol (in one way or the other), they end up in an endless cycle. How about the headlines you get like X raided Y? What happens to relations then? Also does the severity of the relation changes differ between the different phrases, or is that -- as I've suspected all these years -- simply flavour text to make the headlines look different? -NKF 23:54, 21 January 2009 (CST)
The exact change may depend on how much damage was done, etc. An illegal flyer airstrike that did in two sections of Rescue One knocked down Megapol's view of Diablo from -48 to -88(?). I let the game go in 4x time until enough vehicles had been taken out to get back to -48, which left Diablo's view of Megapol at -100. -- Zaimoni 11:52, 22 January 2009 (CST)
Diablo raids Megapol: Megapol view of Diablo -15 (-48 |-> -63), Diablo view of Megapol +7 (-100 |-> -93) -- Zaimoni 11:57, 26 January 2009 (CST)

Aliens shooting down the people tubes doesn't make Transtellar think worse of the aliens [at alien view 15]. (I wasn't thinking fast enough to track down who it does negatively influence). I've verified that dead building sections are generally worth -5 in rating. So one Machiavellian approach is to have the aliens do enough property damage that corporations will start liking you just for shooting down aliens.

- Zaimoni 22:17, 20 April 2008 (CDT)

That's generally why it's a good idea to leave the aliens alone when they're either dropping an Overspawn, or they've launched the Apocalypse mission (who named it this anyway?) where they send some heavies in and bomb particular buildings owned by particular groups. A great way to improve your public relations in a "See, the aliens are bad, we told you so!" way. At the cost of some negative damage to the city, your public relations improve immensely without having to lift a finger! Well, as long as it's not your buildings that are being attacked.
Another great way is to have some of your zippy ships fly low with their guns off (and possibly set to evasive) near large buildings and let the UFO open fire on them. This is quite limited to buildings that are in the path that the dropship in the UFO wing is traveling, but still a great way to get the various groups on your side.
What happens when X-Com damages people tubes, gravroads or the city walls? - NKF 22:34, 20 April 2008 (PDT)
When said sections are not in the declared area of control of a corporation: none (no measurable effect), at least for what can be destroyed with a Rendor. - Zaimoni 10:57, 21 April 2008 (CDT)
Road section controlled by Evonet: -25 on Evonet, -1 for any corporation that liked Evonet with rating 9; next lowest Evonet rating testable was 5, which did not react. - Zaimoni 11:08, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

In my experience prices seem to go down a little for products from friendly corporations. But with corporations like Lifetree or Gravball League, that do not produce any products you can directly buy, the monthly costs should go down, as X-COM would be given discounts on electricity, food and free tickets to matches. Which could actually be a trap from an opposing corporation, too...

I haven't done much testing but I do remember for an example a small price drop from good relations with Cyberweb for their targetting arrays. It wasn't worth the bribery for just a few purchases but in the long run, who knows...

--Karp 21:56, 18 August 2008 (PDT)

Initial Relations

I'm using the editors to have an idea of the initial relationships although the values have ranges that can switch the ratings from game to game (and possibly difficulty levels also play a role).I'm using data from 5 games, might not be enough but it is a start. Results will be presented on each organization's talk page Hobbes 08:57, 30 October 2009 (EDT)

Difficulty levels definitely have a role. (I'm trying out a Superhuman game just now; it seems that all of the ratings are more extreme, although I haven't studied carefully what is going on.) - Zaimoni 1:19, 25 Feb 2010 (CST)

Is it worth putting up the full table of starting relations?

I mean, it's easy enough to get it from Apoc'd, and we know how it's modified (+-10 randomly except for +100 (i.e. organisations' attitudes to themselves, and the Cult of Sirius toward Aliens), and a difficulty modifier for attitudes to X-COM). It is a pretty big table, though. Magic9mushroom (talk) 10:10, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

I'd say it would be worthwhile. If you're worried about it taking up too much space, you could put it on a separate page, under "Data tables". Or use a collapsible table. Darkpast (talk) 13:30, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
Apparently I was a bit overconfident. Upon looking at the org->org (i.e. NOT involving X-COM or Alien) relations values from a few savegames, this appears to be the spread of adjustments:
Difficulty Maximum Minimum
Novice +10 -10
Easy +13 -15
Medium +15 -20
Hard +19 -25
Superhuman +21 -29
I stress that this is just the biggest adjustments I've seen; it doesn't look like a linear spread on the higher difficulties, so the tails are going to be rare and I might have therefore missed a point or two. I'm going to ask for code digs. Magic9mushroom (talk) 11:19, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I've got the full thing now, and it's not linear. Will be putting it up momentarily. Magic9mushroom (talk) 13:01, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Addition to Relationships At Game Start table

This image is script that was executed and view Relationships in the game

Refusing settlements

Testing seems to show that organizations will refuse to accept settlements once their relation with the Aliens reaches 75. This is true even if the organization isn't hostile to X-COM. Darkpast (talk) 16:31, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes? I thought I said that. Magic9mushroom (talk) 16:54, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
My bad, I missed it. Though it might be worth noting that they will say "we will remain hostile" even if they actually aren't. Darkpast (talk) 17:07, 27 July 2020 (UTC)