Talk:Impossible Difficulty (EU2012)

Panic Management

I've just had a read of this section and while it seems a well thought strat for Impossible, my question here is the following: does it focus on the differences between Classic and Impossible and provide general tips on how to survive on Impossible? To me that should be the center of this page but this section starts with the following:

"It is possible, if exeedingly difficult, to last out the first month (and hopefuly, a campaign) without losing any countries in Impossible. Required is luck, extreme skill and knowledge of the game, and probably a lot of save-state abuse. Slingshot (and Progeny, if in Enemy Within <need to check if it's usually late-month, I think my plan kinda depends on it being so>) is extremely helpful, and should be used if you have it."

If I just had started playing Impossible just this introduction would put me off reading the rest of the section since it seems to depend on a lot of factors to work, and there's too much uncertainty involved. What if the Council mission isn't on one of the 4 countries? What if you get a squad wipe in one of those 2 Abduction missions? And even some factors don't seem to have been tested:

"Month 1:

You'll want to build the two Uplinks to the left of the starting one.

Don't forget to dig if you need to, plus you'll need one Generator (§60, 5 days), ideally placed on the other side of the base, so it doesn't get in the way of your Sattelite block.

You'll need at least 4 Sattellites to save all at-risk countries, but the Adjency Bonus will give you a capacity of 8, so up to 7 more can be built"

How can you build 2 Uplinks in the 1st month if the 2nd one should require 25 Engineers? Or, where do you get §400 credits before the 10th of April to build 4 sats and then §60 + §300 for the Generator and 2 Uplinks before the 16th?

Also, in general, pages shouldn't also have personalized ("my plan") or even be signed - if you're still working on it, you should create a sandbox page such as User:Xuncu/Sandbox to develop work in progress.

Just my 2c. :) Hobbes 14:38, 5 December 2013 (EST)

Ah, hm. Well, the fact is I did it. I didn't even cheat by using the trick to go into negative power by lowering the difficulty, ordering construction, then putting it back up. Plus, I think someone just added that Uplinks are cheaper in EW. Started with Germany giving 160 credits (via New Economy), so start with 225 credits, and DUMPING nearly all the corpses that Impossible gives. Plus, with Engineers, I got satts down to I think it was §65 or §75 each; "buy 3, get 1 free." Though, as I noted, NOTHING else was built or bought that first month. Carlock was the COuncil mission I got (with Panic reduction, though not in the best spot then, but did save Austrialia from going to full in April) was another §140ish, woulda done better if the RNG let the Elerium Generator survive, because I sold the two computers instead, dumped in Elerium, like half the alloys (because once I got to use them; with that many Engies, I wouldn't need that many), and it's labeled "Impossible" for a reason, and I don't remember what/when I got for the council request. --Xuncu 19:41, 5 December 2013 (EST)

Wait, wait, I got it: "When then called it 'Impossible', they were talking about me!"--Xuncu 20:07, 5 December 2013 (EST)

From my calculations you still need to get 20 Engineers on March to build 2 Uplinks and that means building a Workshop, since you'll get 8 engineers from the Abductions and 2 from the Council mission. That's §130 for 1 Workshop (before March 5th, so that it is finished on time to build and finish the 2nd Uplink before the end of the month), ~§300 for 4 sats (before the 10th), §100 for 1st Uplink (before the 16th) and the 2nd Abduction mission also needs to happen before March 16th, otherwise you won't get enough engineers for the 2nd Uplink. You started with §225 + 20 Sectoid corpses (or §100) from the starting mission and the 1st Abduction but you need a total of §430 until the 10th for the 4 sats and 1 Workshop, if you want to build the 2nd Uplink. Unless you get lucky and the 1st UFO appears meanwhile, where do you get the remaining credits?

It isn't impossible, but this strat depends on too many factors the player can't control unless he/she cheats (both 2 Abductions having Engineers as rewards AND Carlock Council mission before the 16th AND only 4 countries being on Level 5 panic AND UFO before the 10th) - this is a best case scenario unlikely to happen in most campaigns, and doesn't really help someone who is trying to make the transition between Classic and Impossible. You state it yourself on the introduction: "Required is luck, extreme skill and knowledge of the game".

This should be instead in the Survival Guide (EU2012) or a general Strategies page. Hobbes 10:25, 6 December 2013 (EST)

I agree that this appears to be a Satellite Rush strat tailored for Impossible, which would be ok, if misnamed and not really in the right place. But IMO if published as a strat or build order, it should work with perfect play, but not require luck on the geoscape. Requirements such as "you must never use explosives and capture both a sectoid and thin man in the first month while wearing your underwear on your head" are ok, since they're technically possible in any play through. Requirements such as "Use New Economy and hope your starting country gives 60% more funding than normal and then hope your second abduction happens before the 16th and awards more engineers than normal with High Stakes" aren't really ok in a strat. Binkyuk 11:29, 6 December 2013 (EST)

Don't be so pedantic. In actuallity, perhaps "Classic vs Impossible" itself may be the wrong name? It's technically already addressed in Difficulty, so comparing them again is kind of redundant, even if it's extrapolated upon in this page. In comparison, the other XCOM Wikia has two straight-up "Guides for impossible", one for combat and one for strategy (also with redundancies and overlaps). I suggest that this page should, in fact, be a singular "Impossible Guide" (and as such, the plan I wrote (and the other if I ever get around to it) would be quite in place). And I repeat: luck-based, sure, and yet: I still did it on my first try. Option B was this 'supreme "luck"' one, which I wasn't even origionally going to write. Option A would have been the less "luck-reliant"/realistic one as it was what I origionally was only going to write before---- as you would say; I was saved by a winning lottery ticked jamming my would-be assasin's gun and then I fell out of a plane, caught a flock of geese, and used them to land safely into an orgy with all the hot pornstars ever. At most, all B really needs is to be pointed out that it's for EW, since the lower Engineers/Credit requirements makes panic management easier in general in EW than in EU.--Xuncu 05:51, 16 December 2013 (EST)

First, let's all cool down about this. I've been told before that I pay a lot of attention to detail (that's just the obsessive-compulsive me trying to get in control) and I understand it can be annoying to have someone always nagging but editing (as opposed to simply writing) is also about checking facts, in order to improve the work of others.

Next, this page started as a simple comparison between both difficulties but I agree with you that it has grown up to the point where it should be simply a guide to Impossible. But to me the best guides (gaming, travel, etc.) are those that are divided into two sections: a general one, just to get acquainted with the subject and get a general overview of the path ahead; and then a section to go wild with all the small and possibly interesting details that you might find on the way. And in a game that has a lot of replayability, luck and trial and error, a 'step by step' description is risky since chance can simply throw the entire plan out of the window. The fun part is really to have players come up with their own solutions rather than pointing them to do A, B and C, which considering how unforgiving Impossible is, can be completely impossible until players get used to the new tactical reality.

Finally, there are two (or three) strategies for EU (and EW) that have been pointed out since EU came out: Satellite Rush and Alien Base Rush. Both are designed to survive the initial months regarding panic levels but many times I've found that I've had to switch between both during a game or take delays due to unexpected events. Both strats still apply for Impossible, I've won my first games (on EU and EW) using them. I've also made my own personal twist on my last Impossible EW game, where I tested to see if it was possible to assault the Alien Base on April but it's so luck dependent that right now it's something for experienced players only, not someone starting to play Impossible. To conclude, I think we need two pages for both these strategies (Satellite and Alien Base rushes), since they apply to all difficulty levels, explaining the general idea and then contributors can go wild on the details or their own twist about them. Hobbes 07:43, 16 December 2013 (EST)

Well, the naming problem is easily solved with a page move. I think this page could be moved to Impossible Guide (EU2012) as is and it'd be a perfectly accurate description of the page. I like Hobbes' overview of panic management - it concisely points out the problem (4 countries in red at end of March. what do?) and gives 2 possible ways to deal with it, and a quick summary of what you need to get it (money by when, second abduction by when, and both abductions awarding engineers), without going in to too much detail, and I think it fits better in the early section of the page. Xuncu's stuff can be added back in at the end in a section called Satellite Rush Details (a sub page is probably overkill), with a bit of a tweak so it doesn't restate what's said earlier. Binkyuk 07:57, 16 December 2013 (EST)

Panic Management Move

I'm moving the content of this section here, although it should be in a strategy page as I mentioned above after some major editing. I'm going to redo this section making it more general rather than relying on luck for everything to happen. Hobbes 22:28, 11 December 2013 (EST)

Panic Management

It is possible, if exeedingly difficult, to last out the first month (and hopefuly, a campaign) without losing any countries in Impossible. Required is luck, extreme skill and knowledge of the game, and probably a lot of save-state abuse. Slingshot (and Progeny, if in Enemy Within <need to check if it's usually late-month, I think my plan kinda depends on it being so>) is extremely helpful, and should be used if you have it.

• Second Wave's High Stakes is effectively a requirement.
  • Hidden Potential and Not Created Equal are a bit of a gamble, but any higher-statted soldiers will help make the battles much easier.
  • Damage Roulette and Absolutley Critical: since your soldiers are, normally, liable to get 1-shotted anyways, early on the odds are in your favor for this to help you and hinder the aliens; there's nothing quite like taking a critical hit from a Light Plasma Rifle... for 1 damage.
• You starting country; either Africa for the starting money, or Europe for cheaper Workshops.
  • Alternatively, if you're just out for not losing the Contienent Bonuses, and don't mind one or two losses; start in Asia or Europe, and let them take a hit if you have to choose.
• The biggest threat is, naturally, the two Abduction missions: Since Asia and Europe have 4 countries each, any passed Abduction mission each means 6 panic total, while South America with 2 countries can suck it up untill you get your sattelites in.
• Normally, with those two Missions, and helping one country each, that means (with luck) 4 countries exactly that'll be at full panic by the end of the month
• Don't forget that the most efficient Uplink/Nexus setup is a 2x2 block of 2 Uplinks and 2 Nexi.
• After starting the campaing and beating the first mission, you should check to see if you have decent soldiers in the barracks, and have steam vents in good locations (ie: not in the upper left quarter of the base)

The key is the Council Mission/Request, that needs to happen before the 16th

• Theory: "schedual" for month is made by AI at start of month;
• There can be two Council "events" per month total: one mission and one request.
  • Ergo: Dates for Council events are given, but what occurs is part of RNG, even through save-scumming. ie; Mission, Request, or nothing.
  • If Mission is taken for the first event, second event cannot be a mission (have not tested inverse)
    • Exception: Slingshot (and probably Progeny).

Option A: Panic Reducing Council Mission

• • panic reduction in withdrawing country, 3 left, one Uplink, get requisite 10 engineers before 16th, build 2nd Uplink, 3 satts for the 3 remaining countries

Pros: flexibility to let second Abduction Mission be for cash or scientists, and not have to be before

Option B: Council Mission/Request w/Engineer reward

Month 1:

• The slightly-more luck-dependant method, in that both Abductions, chosen to provide Engineers, and the Council Mission need to happen before 16th, and you need to get an additonal 15 Engineers total from them.
  • You'll want to build the two Uplinks to the left of the starting one.
    • Don't forget to dig if you need to, plus you'll need one Generator (§60, 5 days), ideally placed on the other side of the base, so it doesn't get in the way of your Sattelite block.
  • You'll need at least 4 Sattellites to save all at-risk countries, but the Adjency Bonus will give you a capacity of 8, so up to 7 more can be built.
    • If you've been lucky enough to get all 3 missions before the 10th, and possibly the first UFO, the engineers will vastly reduce the cost of sattellites, so you should go for all 7 if you can (though 5 is more realistic). You won't be doing research very quickly anyways, (or building anything for that matter) so don't fret too much about dumping coprses and artifacts into the Grey Market-- except for Navigational Computers: you'll need them later to reserach and build Sattelite Nexi later (power sources sell better anyways; here's hoping the RNG is generous about letting them survive UFO crashes).
    • Elerium, you won't be using for a long while, dump it in. Alloys, enough to pull this off. But since fragments don't sell well and you'll need them later, should be last resort.
• With luck of where abductions take place, and sufficient sattellites, you might be able to take one, possibly two Continents right off from Abductions.
• Later in the month, as soon as you got some more stuff to sell for the §, you should at least open up the second level of the base, and make any headway you can digging for steam vents.
• EW: Portent's §150 may be more than a Council Request may be, and the scientist and engineer is useful-- though it's still less helpful than getting Zhang this early, §200, and two Engineers and Scientists.

Month 2:

• With a signifcant lead on money, engineers, and a small boost of Scientists, this month is much easier (on top of having leveled soldiers in the battlefield, hopefully).
• The main push done with, you only need to add one more Uplink (don't forget Generator/Geothermal) to survive without losing any countries (ideally on the second level, on the far left, or the immediate left of the access elevator)
  • if you find you have the need, a fourth can be built on the other spot; you'll want to save the middle spot for your first Nexus; either way, 1-3 month(s) from now, you'll be able to keep advantage of two Adjency Bonuses while you deconstruct a no-longer-needed Uplink and replace it with the second Nexus.
• With luck, you may only need to cover 3 countries this month; Terror Missions begin late this month, and they tend to occur in countries with high panic, clearing at least one of the 4 at-risk.
• So, you may only need 3 sattelites. But, since our goal is total global saturation- and keeping cost and efficiency in mind;
  • As many sattellites as you can to fill capacity of your L-shaped Uplink block, particulary any number of the 7 sattellite goal you weren't able to finish last month, on top of the new 3 spots.
  • But: order them individually. After the second Abduction Mission (and after the Terror Mission), you'll want to only use enough to save any at-risk nations, and after that, finish covering any continents you can. Cancel the rest, and use the money to dig and build; a laboratory would not go amiss, to catch up on Research.
• Since South America (and it's two countries) are easiest to cover, and you might be able to manage Arc Thrower research and Containment construction, capture a Thin Man.
  • In the meantime, you can research the Computers: due to a programming oversight, you can stop researching it at 51% completion, and continue with researching something else while wating to cover South America; once you do, use your new We Have Ways to isntantly interrogate the Thin Man, and Computer research will automatically jump to 100% (just spend a moment in Mission Control to get the notification)!
  • Same thing for your progress on the Fragments/Beam Weapons tree and Sectoids, and Alloys/(early) Armor tree with Floaters.
  • Don't worry: switching between those projects does not consume their material cost until completion.
• Slingshot's payoff is late this month, if you managed to do all the mission the first time. (unless you're playing EW: then it starts late this month)

Month 3:

• You may have as good as won by now; with the high amount of money, Scientists, and Engineers, you should be progressed enough to open up the Alien Base and use it as your 'rescue' method, and have made headway into construction of your own. In which case, you can choose abductions as you wish now, and focus on getting that Nexus up, and completing any left in capacity.
• Your biggest threat now is now the Abductor UFO, since you may still be a bit behind on research: at bare minimum, you'll need a Raven with a Laser Cannon, or two or three with Phoenix Cannons. Since you've probably needed to savescum to get this far, you can do so to get ships on the right continent to intercept. Take it out, or it'll summon a battleship to undo all your hard work.
• Like last month: order sattelites to fill capacity
• In EW: EXALT's shennangians begin this month.

Congratualtions: you've made it!

• Pros: early Sattellite Coverage and early rewards thereof, stuff from Engineering will be cheap and low resource cost, once you finish the research.
• Cons: You'll be low on resources, and slow on research.

Supreme Luck: Sgt. Carlock Escort

• Money, Engineers, and possibly Panic Reduction in an at-risk nation. (aaaaaaaaalmost got that, too)
• Same/mix as above, but you'll have that one less country to worry about at the start; that one more satellite could cover one more continent.

Ironman Mode: You can't hear it, but the RNG is laughing at your naivete.

EW Supplemental:

• If you relied on Zhang and his missions for the scientists, engineers, resources, and money: the earliest Slingshot will start is late April now.
  • Theory: Slingshot/Friends in Low Places in EW has two hardcodings: one council mission must happen before it, and "April at earliest".
• The larger research requirements for some items will push back progress even farther.
• After completing the Seeker Autopsy, the Respiratior's poison & choking resistance, and health bonus, supersedes the Nanofiber Vest, which only has the same health bonus. Before that; see their entry for strategies and tips on how to deal with them.
• When EXALT begins to show up: doing Covert Operations reduces panic in target countries; after doing an Intelligence Scan, you often get a selection of revealed cells to choose from. But, starting in the third month, it won't come soon enough, and is too random to rely upon.
• At least for now, theres a stacking glitch with MEC's Punch and Flamethrower: one foundry upgrade to those, per campaign, adds an additional 50% damage to those abilities to your copy of the game.
  • Ergo: First playthrough's Kinetic Punch, base 12 damage, upgrade to 18, 2nd playthrough, upgrade to 27, 3rd, to 40...

(Method B I'm considering complete. Still have a save file primed for method A, and another that maybe can still be savescummed for the Supreme, but may take a break from playing-- anyone want to see if save files can be swapped?)--Xuncu 05:36, 5 December 2013 (EST)