Talk:Population (Apocalypse)

OK, I've finally got around to testing this, and it seems there's some wrong info here. However, lets begin with info that's available on the Web:

There's a walkthrough here which gives stats for the various human opponents: http://www.ag.ru/games/x-com-apocalypse/cheats/7462

However, testing has revealed that they do not match the stats given in-game. I've tested by probing 12 different human enemies of each type, on normal difficulty, and got the following results:

Megapol

Health: 43-54 Accuracy: 31-46 Reactions: 10-48 Speed: 64-80 Stamina: 43-62 Bravery: 40-80 Strength: 32-50 Psy Energy: 5-18 Psy Attack: 6-18 Psy Defence: 20-35

Cultist

Health: 46-57 Accuracy: 30-45 Reactions: 10-43 Speed: 64-80 Stamina: 48-64 Bravery: 40-70 Strength: 31-44 Psy Energy: 5-20 Psy Attack: 22-44 Psy Defence: 31-65

Ganger

Health: 43-54 Accuracy: 29-45 Reactions: 24-50 Speed: 64-80 Stamina: 44-64 Bravery: 40-80 Strength: 33-50 Psy Energy: 7-19 Psy Attack: 5-19 Psy Defence: 20-49

Security Guard

Health: 43-54 Accuracy: 34-43 Reactions: 11-42 Speed: 64-80 Stamina: 44-63 Bravery: 40-80 Strength: 30-50 Psy Energy: 6-19 Psy Attack: 6-17 Psy Defence: 25-49

Finally, during the first week, there seem to be no great differences in equipment between the various human enemies. Gang members and Cultists seem to have slightly worse equipment, but this could have been just a coincidence in my tests.

All this shows that most stats are pretty much the same for all types of human opponents, though there are a few exceptions: 1. Gang members have, on average, higher reactions than the others. 2. Cultists might have slightly lower Bravery and Strength. 3. Cultists have significantly stronger Psy Attack than the others, but never use Mind Benders, so it's irrelevant. 4. Megapol are vulnerable to Psychic attacks, Security Guards and Gang members less so, while Cultists are the most resistant.

The above also seems to indicate that Security Guards are, in fact, no weaker than other human enemies. Some carry around Heavy Launchers from the beginning of the game, meaning they aren't to be trifled with. Furthermore, I have never seen Cultists armed with Mini-Launchers during Week One.

p.s. anyone know what organization(s) have the different-uniformed security guards? I seem to recall it was only one. Anyway, it would be good to check if they have different stats. --Darkpast (talk) 17:32, 8 June 2014 (EDT)

I haven't played Apocalypse in ages, but this tool may be of help to figuring out the stats: Apoc'd - I can read and edit the exe files of the game that deal with the Strategic and Tactical view that store game settings such as unit stats, organization relations, etc. Hobbes (talk) 16:04, 8 June 2014 (EDT)

Thanks, will update the info...when I get the time and do more testing... Seems the walkthrough got the stats through the same tool, but for some reason in the game itself it's different. Most notably, the Accuracy stat is much lower for pretty much everyone.

For now I'll record this:

• I've checked, the different-uniformed guards have the same stats.
• My points 1., 3. and 4. about the stats were correct, point 2. wasn't.
• Equipment indeed varies between organizations, in that they each have a "tech level", which advances at the rate of +1 per week. Some start at a higher level than others, though:
  • Marsec, Solmine, Psyke, Diablo, Osiron: 4
  • Government, Megapol, Cyberweb, S.E.L.F., Mutant Alliance: 3
  • Cult of Sirius, Superdynamics, General Metro, Transtellar, Sensovision, Nanotech: 2
  • Lifetree, Nutrivend, Evonet, Sanctuary Clinic, Energen, Synthemesh, Gravball League, Extropians, Technocrats: 1
• The average number (actual number is up to +/- 25%) of guards in the building also varies from one organization to the other:
  • Megapol, Osiron: 16
  • Government, Marsec: 14
  • Diablo: 13
  • Solmine: 12
  • Cyberweb: 11
  • Cult of Sirius, Nanotech, Psyke, S.E.L.F., Mutant Alliance: 10
  • Superdynamics, Lifetree: 9
  • General Metro, Transtellar: 8
  • Sensovision, Nutrivend, Evonet, Sanctuary Clinic, Energen, Synthemesh, Gravball League, Extropians, Technocrats: 7

--Darkpast (talk) 17:32, 8 June 2014 (EDT)

Best treat the stats you get from the game as the base line stats. The game may do some modification to throw a bit of randomness in or adjust them according to difficulty level. On the different jumpsuits, the different jumpsuit colours will be organization based. I don't recall ever seeing guards belonging to the same company with different coloured jumpsuits in the building at the same time. NKF (talk) 02:28, 9 June 2014 (EDT)

Bingo, I figured out the Firing Accuracy discrepancy! Thing is, the game files stores Accuracy values as follows: (100 minus the actual in-game skill). In other words, a guy with Accuracy 80 in the game files has accuracy 20 in-game. In addition, Stamina is twice higher in the game files than in the game. --Darkpast (talk) 10:54, 9 June 2014 (EDT)

Odd guard uniforms

I'm almost certain one organization's guards used some rather funky pink or purple uniforms with helmets, but I can't seem to recreate this in my new game. Anyone remember which organisation it was? Darkpast (talk) 19:05, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

None of the Security Guard-using organisations have any colour besides that dark green (at least, when raided). You might be thinking of Cultists, who have pink/purple/green uniforms with helmets. Magic9mushroom (talk) 08:56, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

I believe the guards with the pink/purple outfits are associated with some of the high tech or biomedical firms. If you don't see them during a building raid, you may have better luck from an X-Com base attack. NKF (talk) 05:05, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Could it just be all (Security Guard) raiding parties? I got pink Technocrats and Lifetree just then by getting them to raid me instead of me raiding them. Magic9mushroom (talk) 08:02, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the info guys - based on your info I now believe that some corporations actually employ the "Corporate Hood" enemy type when they raid your bases. I'll just have to test whether it applies to all of them, as I seem to remember that Nutrivend used normal Security Guards when they raided me (though it was years ago when I played that game so I might be mistaken). Darkpast (talk) 07:41, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

They're definitely Corporate Hoods, yeah. I haven't found any "Building Security" users yet. Magic9mushroom (talk) 06:23, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Are the random civilians always human even when you are investigating a mutant alliance of SELF building? Jasonred79 (talk) 18:51, 5 April 2022 (CEST)

yes. and it gets strange. if you mind control a guard sometimes you get the portrait of an android with the the stats of a human. the android picture is just random in-fill and doesn't mean anything. If you are familiar with Apoc'D, you can have a look at the stats of civilians and compare them to agents. AND thanks for helping out. the early games pages are just about dead and anyone willing to make contribution to the old stuff is muchly appreciated. The only reason i'm rewriting pages that really need it is because of OpenApoc, otherwise I would have left this place ages ago. EsTeR (talk)

Civilian Picture Reference

Here are the Image Numbers used within the game. If using Apoc'D, swapping over numbers (only. no need for to do stats) will allow that style to appear elsewhere (eg: upper class in the slums).

37 38 39 |34 35 36|| 31 32 33| 28 29 30|| 40 41 42 | 43 44 45
Civilians: middle, upper, lower = 3xmale, 3xfemale

No Kneeling

I never noticed, LOL! I love learning new stuff. Thanks.EsTeR (talk) 02:35, 28 October 2022 (CEST)