Difference between revisions of "Talk:Reactions Training"

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[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 07:56, 13 October 2006 (PDT)
 
[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 07:56, 13 October 2006 (PDT)
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Thanks Hobbes, I think that explains everything! ;)- [[User:Zombie|Zombie]] 19:26, 13 October 2006 (PDT)

Revision as of 02:26, 14 October 2006

I find that reaction shots on aliens leaving a spacecraft are exceedingly dangerous. You can lose a lot of soldiers doing this. It does however train up soldiers and is tidier than grenades. If you think that covering the spacecraft door is just going to be too dangerous then just don't do it. Hold your troops further back and scout the exit area each turn instead. Here are my experiences.

Alien grenades are the biggest threat to reaction shooters. Aliens need time to take out, arm, and throw the grenade however so you're generally safe unless the alien needs to move only one or two spaces to see a soldier. Use a motion scanner to check the position of aliens and if they are close enough to throw a grenade you should take precautions, such as placing a proximity grenade.

When an alien leaves a spaceship it will generally shoot at someone in their sight, someone who shot at them, or the closest person. This means it is generally a good idea to put the most expendable soldier closest to the door. Even then though the alien can shoot at another target so I wouldn't cover the spaceship door with anyone that I really wanted to keep alive.

If you're using proximity grenades to cover the door then you might lose a lot of money unless you have someone running through to pick up any valuables before the you place the next grenade. Don't be too greedy or else the runner will get caught when the next alien walks out.

- Egor


Alien grenades are generally attracted by large packs of soldiers. Therefore, spread out. The example screenshot is one good example where an alien may choose to throw a grenade if it manages to get the higher reaction level.

One good trick to reactions is to make use of the 20 tile visual limit. All units can see that many tiles in front of them in full daylight. Aliens don't get a visual penalty at night, but you can negate this with a flare or two (on top of the UFO, for safety). Sit your soldiers at around 18 - 19 tiles away from the door within visual sight of the door. This way, after you defeat the alien leaving the door, the aliens directly behind the exiting alien will not be able open fire on your reacting soldiers, and will be forced to walk out. The main disadvantage of this strategy is that your distance is increased. More distance means bullets have more room to fly off course. One other disadvantage is terrain and the availability of open space.

Hmm, you know it's a funny thing, but I did not realise this section existed.

- NKF


If you drop a smoke grenade in front of the UFO door, you can reduce visiblility for both sides, meaning you can safely perch about 10 squares away. Any alien reaching the "visible" threshold of the cloud will have walked enough to be severely TU-depleted.--Ethereal Cereal 22:08, 18 September 2006 (PDT)


I see what you're saying, but doesn't that only help you for one turn? After one turn, there may have been aliens that stopped just within the edge of the cloud. I think the safest way to watch a UFO door is to use a Scouting variation: Have most of your shooters laying in wait a fair distance from the door. Each turn, have scout(s) advance to within site of the door, stopping if they see someone. (You might have it covered from 2 or even 3 sides - left, right, directly outward.) Some math could probably be done to figure a safe range: 1) takes maybe 10(?) TUs to exit door, 2) most TUs for an alien is ~78 (Ethereal in Superhuman game, not counting Zombie which is melee and Celatid with short distance); many aliens have less, and this can be modified if/when you know your target type, 3) the lowest-TU weapon likely to be used is Heavy Plasma (30% Snap) which is 23 TUs for 78-TU Ethereal. So an Etheral can walk 78-23-10=45 TUs from the door, or 11 tiles, and shoot. For other aliens, the distance would be less. Position your guys at 31 then, and run your scouts in. Sounds like a good plan in theory, but I'm not sure how workable it really is... that's a lot of ground to cover, and you don't always have clear visibility or 30 tiles of room from the door. Anyway... it's a thought. --MikeTheRed 16:26, 20 September 2006 (PDT)

I can vouch from from experience that smoke-in-front-of-door plus 10-15 squares distance works quite well. It's not whether they have TUs enough to fire, it's whether they have TUs enough to reaction fire before your troops. A firing line of 4+ troops some distance away plus a smoke cloud makes for a very unprepared alien. Bang-bang-bang-bang. It's rare that aliens stay in the cloud -- a common alien movement pattern is to step outside, take one shot, then go back in. With the cloud there, they can't shoot, so they just go back in -- or they advance, and get shot down. You can also safely advance one spotter towards the cloud; due to mutual surprise, the aliens won't shoot the spotter -- and you can snipe with the other (unseen) troops.--Ethereal Cereal 21:07, 23 September 2006 (PDT)
Makes sense to me. It all sounds like fun things to play with, to me. :) --MikeTheRed 15:26, 27 September 2006 (PDT)
It's very pleasing that with all the discussions we've had (here and there) that we're actually making the smoke grenade useful as we come to understand it more. You don't have to like it - you just have to understand how it works.
- NKF

Minor edit - it takes 8 TUs to go out the door, not 4. (Which makes no sense to me. Surely once the door is open, the empty space which the alien has to walk through is the same as any other empty space anywhere else)

On grenades: I agree that the 4 soldiers in my picture are grenade bait. Spreading them out would not help much because the only have personal armour and would probably die anyway. Putting 2 on either side would help vs grenades but then they'd shoot each other. I'd rather be killed by aliens than by friendly fire... Once you have power suits, either approach would work well. (And flying suits can solve all your grenade problems.) Also, you can stay out of grenade throwing range when the UFO is a battleship, because of the low ceiling. Don't forget that priming a grenade eats a lot of TUs (50%!) and provokes reaction fire. With any luck this will drop the pesky alien, and the grenade will go off beside the door (which will still be open I believe) A pity this destroys valuable loot. All my grenade-related reaction training disasters have been from mutons - they have too many HP, too many TUs, and excessively high reactions. (I don't even try it with Ethereals)

Smoke grenade trick sounds interesting - I'll have to try that some time.

-MB

If the 8 TUs to walk through a doorway is true, is there an additional 4 TUs for the first alien to walk through it (to open the door)? --Ethereal Cereal 11:42, 12 October 2006 (PDT)

It's kinda counterintuitive with doorways and TU's. It takes 8 TU to open a door and step through. Stepping through a doorway which is already open still takes 8 TU. However, Daishiva's MapView program claims it takes 4 TU to walk through a closed UFO door and 0 TU for an open door. Not sure how this applies to in-game TU useage though. Hobbes would know. --Zombie 14:30, 12 October 2006 (PDT)


Zombie, I've replied to your email but now that I've read this I think I understand the confusion. There are 2 types of doors in UFO: normal hinged doors (like those in barns and city buildings) and sliding doors (UFO doors, X-COM Base doors, etc.). To go through a closed sliding door it would cost 8 TUs: 4 to open the door and 4 to walk into the tile adjacent to it. Usually when the door is opened there won't be any extra cost to move a unit across it (other than the cost of moving it to the next ground tile) BUT in the case of UFO hull doors it will still cross an additional 4 TUs, thus it will always cost 8 TUs to cross a UFO hull door, open or closed.

Hobbes 07:56, 13 October 2006 (PDT)


Thanks Hobbes, I think that explains everything! ;)- Zombie 19:26, 13 October 2006 (PDT)