Talk:Real-Time vs Turn-Based (Apocalypse)

Dual weild in TB

Technically you can dual wield and fire pairs of weapons in TB by using the shift-LMB approach to firing the selected agent's weapons. The game alternates between the weapons (not sure if it's a left, right, left, right alternations or if the off-hand weapon is fired at specific intervals).

I don't know if there any benefits to doing it this way (like decreased costs), but I just thought I'd point that out. You're still probably better off with a single weapon, unless you want every other shot to be a special round such as stun bolt or toxigun round.

Also, though I'm generally a RT player, I do have a few comments. RT is generally a faster play then TB (since they programmers neglected to include any time compression settings ala X-Com's first two games). I've also seen a lot of players mention that TB is quite an ideal environment for capturing aliens (tough ones like Megaspawn for example). It can be just as easy in RT, but with the freedom you get with the amount of time you get to make and execute your plans, I really can't argue with that. It's also a great mode to hot-seat co-op with a friend!

-NKF 23:05, 14 April 2008 (PDT)

• I think stun gas works better in TB. i've noticed that almost anything weaker than a multiworm in a TB gas cloud drops, but the RT gas cloud is not nearly so effective.--(name here) 04:10, 15 April 2008 (PDT)

Indeed, it is quite effective since it applies a generous amount of stun damage against any unit that walks into a tile with a stun gas cloud in it. It's also a lot easier to catch an alien in a stun cloud in TB. In RT you have to have the right environment or if you're out in the open you have to get your timing just right, which adds to the difficulty.

Unfortunately (or should I say fortunately?) in TB, units standing still in a stun cloud won't notice a thing! Of course, in RT your unit will automatically try to flee from a stun cloud than stand still. - NKF 05:12, 15 April 2008 (PDT)

I prefer RT over TB almost always, even though I love turn-based games. The RT mode just feels a lot more exiting than TB. You just don't get to see the cool changing Hidden Movement-screens in RT. ( well, the pictures themselves may not be so cool, but atleast they change... )

But in general I have to agree with the TB loss-count. Agents cannot act ( through your commands ) realistically in TB; your supposed to try find cover as soon as a threat emerges, not after the threat has moved and fired a few shots without reaction fire...

Doesn't stun gas also dissapear a lot faster in TB? ( in a few turns or so )

And I'm assuming left is the off-hand.

--Karp 02:53, 18 August 2008 (PDT)

Perverse TU Breakpoints

There are some perverse TU breakpoints in TB, due to integer rounding and the fact that some actions (auto fire) require such a small % of total TUs. For example, an Agent with TUs in the low 40s can fire about 50% more rounds autofiring a Lawpistol than an Agent wth TUs in the low 60s. This is because the TU cost per shot is rounded down to 1 vs 2 - a 100% difference.

Hopefully this does not carry over into RT?

This bug would probably not occur if they had stuck to 3 rd bursts as the minimum Autofire action. Or they could have tracked fractional TUs, but that would make the TB interface a bit strange.

There's probably an even worse change right on the breakpoint, say between 49 and 50 TUs, where one Agent has twice the firepower of the other ( as long as he has a backpack full of ammo).

Spike 13:58, 16 October 2008 (CDT)

It, ahem, carries over differently. While you don't have the hyperfast Marsec M-4000 autofire (1 TU at 66 MP, 2 TU at 67 MP -- keyed by going from 7TU aimed to 8TU aimed), you do have grossly nonlinear speed changes with weight (RT speed := INT(TB speed/8)*8).

I do not recommend trying to dodge large rockets while framestepping in RT with an RT speed of less than 56. RT speed 64 is better. -- Zaimoni 18:29, 16 Oct 2008 (CDT)

Wiki author RT bias

What's with the RT bias on this wiki? "TB mode unfortunately falls to its RT counterpart as the game appears to be geared more towards RT than it is for TB. This leaves this mode severely lacking and unpolished. But it certainly isn't unplayable." wtf is that? In what way is the game geared towards RT? In what way is TB unpolished? It's more or less the same TBS that made UFO: Enemy Unknown famous. I really don't see any basis for such comments. "TB is a slower method of combat, that unfortunately can be a lot messier in combat." Which of TB or RT is "messier in combat" depends very much on your playstyle. The article is currently called 'Real-Time vs Turn-Based'. I suggest that it be renamed to 'Rantings of an opinionated RT player.' Karadoc 09:01, 12 January 2010 (EST)

I agree that there is a bias towards RT on the current content of this article, definitely due to the authors' personal preferences. I myself prefer RT over TB on Apocalypse (but I haven't written any of the material present on this page, I think). There's always room for improvement on the wiki and I'd suggest if you could describe, in your opinion what are the advantages (or disadvantages) of TB over RT on the TB section. I think ideally this article could be more concise, e.g. have a table listing agreed upon characteristics of both styles without discussing which one is better. Hobbes 13:18, 12 January 2010 (EST)

Ok.. I've actually completely rewritten the article. I don't like doing this, because it might upset whoever put their time into writing it in the first place, but I suppose rewriting it is more productive than just complaining about it. I felt that most of the dot points were either wrong or irrelevant, so after I had deleted all the stuff I didn't like there wasn't much left - which is why I ended up rewriting it completely. I've tried to cover the basics of how each mode feels, without bias. Obviously a lot more detail could be given for each mode, but I figure that any extra detail would be much better suited to the individual articles on the two modes. Karadoc 21:32, 12 January 2010 (EST)