Talk:Rifle

Rifle vs Laser Pistol?

Do Rifles offer any advantages at all relative to Laser Pistols, once you get Laser Pistols? In Snap fire, the Rifle has 20% more net accuracy (accuracy x rate of fire), but the Laser Pistol has over 50% more damage per hit. In Auto mode, the Laser Pistol has about twice the net accuracy, plus the same damage advantage (which is even more important if the target has good armour). The only advantage for a Rifle would seem to be for Aimed fire against a lightly armoured target. But how often do we really use Aimed fire? Personally, I just use continuous snap fire instead - if I get lucky, I have some spare TUs to use on other tasks. Probably I would only use Aimed fire if a friendly unit was very near to the target.

The other suggestion that was made in the text is to use Rifles to train up firing accuracy, because of the greater likelihood of a hit. This is true in the early game, but even for this role, the Laser Pistol will create more successful hits per turn (in Snap or Auto) and without ever running out of ammunition.

On top of this, of course, is the fact that a Laser Pistol gives you unlimited ammunition for one item slot, compared to 20 shots for 2 slots with the Rifle. In extended battles, you will run out of Rifle ammo and so spare clips are needed, eating further into the 80 item limit. Plus you have the advantage vs Sectopods and the relative advantage versus AP-resistant aliens. There seem to be no down-sides to the Laser Pistol.

So, in conclusion, do we throw away Rifles as fast as we get Laser Pistols, or is there some other reason for keeping Rifles around? For the time being, I am just going to carry one or two, probably in backpacks, for the occasional long range Aimed shot. And yet, I have the nagging feeling that my soldiers were more effective with Rifles than with laser pistols, especially at longer ranges. Is that just my imagination? Spike 13:56, 21 September 2008 (PDT)

You can CHOOSE TO throw away Rifles as soon as you get Laser Pistols, yes. The Laser Pistol is overall better in most areas(though it is the least accurate weapon in the game in all categories.) The Laser Pistol is in the tech tree between a good weapon and a better weapon. It's hard to use effectively with fresh troops(though vets with Laser Pistols can be SCARY) and you often don't need the extra punch it provides right when you get it.

As such, the Laser Pistol is intended to serve much the same role as the Pistol and Plasma Pistol: a specialist weapon that fits on the belt that can easily by toted by troopers carrying lots of rockets or other large items, or has to carry something in their other hand (Psi-Amp, Medi-Kit, Motion Scanner, or another weapon) and doesn't want an accuracy penalty. (And in the case of the Plasma Pistol, one that also is acceptably accurate and packs quite a punch.)

The main thing the Laser Pistol does in most games is allows the player to quickly gain access to the Laser Rifle. The Laser Rifle is one of the best weapons in the game and makes the Rifle obsolete, offering all the advantages of a Laser Pistol and also topping or matching the Rifle in speed in all categories and topping it in accuracy outside of Aimed mode(which as you noted is rarely used).

One thing that should be noted about weapons is you shouldn't upgrade automatically unless the benefits are clearly insurmountable. If you don't need the extra kick of the Laser Pistol to kill the current aliens, you shouldn't be using them as standard equipment.

But my summed up opinion is as follows: Unless you're having trouble killing aliens, skip the Laser Pistol except as a replacement for Pistols and go straight for the Laser Rifle to replace the Rifle as standard gear. (I expect NKF to disagree.) Arrow Quivershaft 14:46, 21 September 2008 (PDT)

I loves my precious. However I don't quite disagree. Laser rifles are better immediate replacements for the rifle in general, although in the interim, I'd actually replace them with the basic pistol right away, since I want the rapid snapshots and the other hand free for grenades. The pistol and rifle share the same snap accuracy and trade off minimal damage for an extra shot (i.e. more damage overall, better reactions and somewhat better mobility). The loss of autoshot firepower is made up by the grenades and my dedicated rocket launcher. But at the start, it's really up to you what you want to use as your primary weapon set, just as long as you can comfortably handle cyberdiscs when they show up.

By the way, laser pistols do NOT fare well against sectopods with standard armour. Please trust me on that one! -NKF 23:16, 21 September 2008 (PDT)

Laser Pistol Wins- BIG!

Laster pistols are far FAR better than standard Rifles all the time. This is due to "shots per TU" and cumulative probability. Just use auto all the time.

Shot per shot, rifles are more accurate, but Laser pistols get more shots into the air for the same TU. To be fair you have to factor that in. For example, 1 aimed shot on a rifle is 80% of TU, vs 1 aimed and one auto for a Laser pistol for the same 80% TU. In most cases the laser pistol has a greater chance of connecting with ONE of those shots because you can shoot so many extra times.

Hit =1-[{(%Chance of auto MISS)^3 } X {%Chance of snap MISS}]

For example: A solider with 40% accuracy with any weapon has a:

• 56.0% chance of missing with ONE shot from an aimed rifle, and a 44.0% chance of hitting ONCE.
• 53.2% chance of missing with ALL FOUR shots and a 46.8% chance of hitting ONCE out of 4 attempts.

However there is no reason to aim with the laser pistol since aiming sucks... so spending 75% of TU for 9 shots fired on auto:

• 34.3% chance of missing with ALL NINE shots and a 65.7% chance of hitting ONCE out of 9 attempts.

You can always compare 9 attempts (75% of TU) to connect with the laser pistol on auto vs firing a single aimed shot from the rifle (80% of TU) including the 110% bonus for rifle aiming. Here are the chances of hitting just a single time with those 2 options:

• @40% accuracy = 44.0% rifle VS 65.7% laser pistol
• @50% accuracy = 55.0% rifle VS 74.3% laser pistol
• @60% accuracy = 66.0% rifle VS 80.9% laser pistol
• @70% accuracy = 77.0% rifle VS 89.8% laser pistol
• @80% accuracy = 88.0% rifle VS 92.7% laser pistol
• @90% accuracy = 99.0% rifle VS 94.8% laser pistol

It doesn't matter how the % of accuracy is arrived at. It's the Accuracy formula excluding "b" (b= weapon type).

As you can 9 shots on auto from a laser pistol is better than a standard rifle. If the soldier has 90% accuracy then he has a 2.1% greater chance to hit. However the laser pistol is still better because of the other benefits such as;

• unlimited ammo,
• 5% TU benefit,
• TU available for reaction shot,
• no -20% 2-handed penalty,
• no clip for the 80-item limit
• PLUS the other 8 shots that miss might remove cover or might hit a 2nd alien.

Laser pistols win hands down. It's so good I prefer it as my primary weapon for all of the game. In early game it's the best choice on a statistical basis, but in late game I still use them because of Experience Training. I still carry Heavy Plasmas in backpacks but rarely use them because I want to put multiple shots into a single alien. Sectopods are a good example when I DON'T use a LP. A 4x4 wall of soldiers in flying suits with laser pistols is nasty. --Brunpal 18:28, 24 September 2008 (PDT)

Wow...NKF, I think you have competition. You might even have been dethroned.--Arrow Quivershaft