Talk:Small Scout

Tactics for Hunting Small Scouts

I've seen single stingrays down them. I've never hit one with cannons. They always run away before my interceptors close. You'd probably need an elerium powered ship to catch up with them and use cannons. There always seems to be one looking for you base on the first day so it can be a nice way to get that first plasma weapon for research.

I agree. These critters are hard to catch. Dual Stingrays have a strong risk of destroying them totally, with Cannons you will almost never get close enough in an Interceptor. Single Stingray, plus Cannon just in case, - i.e. the starting Interceptor loadout - is the best way to crash these early in the game. Even then it's difficult as they often just run for it before you can even fire the first Stingray. I agree it's better just to tail them with a Transport and hope they land, but they don't always land. May be when the Interception Window is up they are less likely to land? Do UFO's "know" when they've been targeted? Early in the game, the $340K of Mind Probe these guys are carrying (total worth $400K+) makes it imperative to try to Recover or Assault them, by hook or by crook. I still have not worked out the best way to do it, let alone a reliable way. Maybe tail them with a transport but keep an Interceptor nearby in the air, with Stingray + Cannon, to take them out if they look like leaving?

It should be noted that a Small Scout assault seems deceptively easy. After all there's 1 of Them and 14 of You. What many people may not realize is that the 1 living alien triggers the "alien clairvoyance" (2 or less aliens alive on the map, or more than 20 turns elapsed, and the AI gets to know where all the X-COM troops are.) Some Small Scout aliens have put up impressive fights. And just to clarify, the Cannon is the only reliable method of downing a Small Scout. A lone Stingray works sometimes, as can a Laser Cannon. However, since you get 100 points for destroying the small scout, and only 50 for shooting it down, the former is often a better choice unless you're hurting for cash, since the recovery value of the UFO isn't 50, even on a perfect mission. Arrow Quivershaft 13:14, 24 November 2008 (CST)

Excellent points there. 14 to 1 is hardly sporting, but as you say the wily scout has an equaliser - good. But are you sure about the reliability of Cannon? On paper, yes, but in practice (I've done a lot of repeat trials), it takes many missed engagements before you even get an Interception Window against a Small Scout, and in most of those cases the Small Scout "goes to warp speed" once its damage level approaches 50%. The problem with the Cannon is that it's damage level is too fine-grained, unlike the Stingray which can pitch the target over the 50% damage threshold before it has time to react and disengage. So yes the Cannon is reliable in the sense that it will almost never destroy the Small Scout. Only on very rare occasions is the Scout in an aggressive enough mood to close with (rather than flee from) a Cannon-armed craft. But the Cannon's rate of downing Small Scouts is much lower than the single Stingray, per engagement. So I would definitely maintain the Stingray primary plus Cannon secondary is the best mix for Small Scout hunting. 90%+ of the time, a single Stingray would do as well as the combo. (The S+C combo is also much more practical than either a single Cannon or dual Cannon, when it comes to shooting down any evasive targets other than a Small Scout. The Dual Cannon mix does excel with a non-evading target such as a Battleship of course.) But maybe we should have a contest, a shoot-off?

Whether <= 50 extra points of Score is worth $400K of cash, a little experience and perhaps some new Research topics, is debatable. My view would be that in the first month of two of the game, the cash (etc) is definitely more useful than the score. Small Scouts largely disappear after that. When they reappear a couple of months later, it's probably not worth the hassle - splash 'em!. I picture a Small Scout running from a Fusion Ball... :) Spike 17:15, 24 November 2008 (CST)

I'm still a skeptic of the 'alien clairvoyance' claim. There used to be a related claim regarding turn 20, which I can't remember exactly but it had to do with alien behaviour as well that I never bought it. So what's the proof of the 'clairvoyance'? Simple observation? Specific code in the engine? How did you test it? What results can be expected after turn 20? Just some questions :) Hobbes 12:02, 26 November 2008 (CST)

"Proof" of clairvoyance is in the code: after turn 10, if 1 or 2 aliens only are still alive, all enemy units are made visible to them. Same thing after turn 20. Seb76 16:04, 26 November 2008 (CST)

Turn 20 is when the aliens get automatic line-of-sight to all your units, leading to their troops rushing out of the ships and a massive storm of psionics. I'm not quite sure where that came from, so i'll look around. --(name here) 13:38, 26 November 2008 (CST)

It seems turn 20 is when they decide to exit their ship, and the psionic spam is actually 10-x, where x depends on the psionic defense of the unit on your side with the lowest psionic defense, as tested by zombie --(name here) 14:02, 26 November 2008 (CST)

Seb, are you sure about that? Behavior would seem to indicate that the turn 20 effect happens even with 4 aliens left alive.--(name here) 18:06, 26 November 2008 (CST)

The problem with the Small Scouts is that not only do they have a higher top speed than an Interceptor, but they also have the highest acceleration in the game. The Small Scout doesn't have a weapon either, so if it encounters resistance, it will try to outrun the threat almost all the time. A Stinger+Cannon combo is probably a preferable loadout on the Interceptor as it may allow you to down the craft while still being useful for other engagements.

In my experience, Small Scouts rarely land so trailing them with a Skyranger is hopeless. And you don't know when the UFO is going to leave so it's better to just engage them straight off when the "scouting" mode begins.

If you do manage to crash the Small Scout in the beginning of the game, it's a great thing. (Not so much for score, but then again the difference is 50 points which is a drop in the bucket for most months). The guaranteed Mind Probe is a good artifact to recover as it provides an influx of cash which could really help out the struggling forces. The mission isn't going to be easy as we recently found out, but it's not hard to kill a single Sectoid, Floater or Snakeman early on either.

All of this hints at just engaging the Small Scouts and crashing them if possible early on. Later, when you have faster craft capable of matching the speed of the Small Scout, you can load a Lightning or a Firestorm with the Cannon(s) and go after the SS to get those Mind Probes easily on a ground mission. However, most people don't even consider equipping a craft with normal Cannons a viable strategy since the intercepting craft is capable of only one function. --Zombie 17:50, 24 November 2008 (CST)

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By the way I'm tempted to remove the obsolete discussion below as it its conclusions are neatly summarised on the main article - any objections? Spike 13:23, 23 November 2008 (CST)

The archivist in me disagrees, but I'm not the only one here. Arrow Quivershaft 13:14, 24 November 2008 (CST)

Heck, the archivist in me agrees with the archivist in you. :) Spike 17:15, 24 November 2008 (CST)

The article page mentions that the Small Scout will not be placed on the map by XComUtil. Isn't the confusion solved then? Unless there is something else which needs to be worked into the text, the discussion should be removed.--Zombie 17:50, 24 November 2008 (CST)

XComUtil Ate My UFO (Old Discussion)

Brunpal: In the interception window, if a UFO takes 50% or more of its total hull points in damage, it is shot down, leaving a UFO Crash Site which X-COM can raid for goodies. X-COM gets "UFO Grounded" points for such. UFO crash sites tend to contain damaged UFOs. But since there's really no way to damage the Small Scout, the vessel doesn't spawn on the map. If a UFO takes 100% or more of its HP in damage in an interception, you will get the message "UFO Destroyed!" No crash site is spawned, and X-COM gets double the points it would've gotten for simply crash-landing the vessel. The part at the top refers to this discrepancy between crash landing and destruction. Craft Armaments randomly do between 50% and 100% of their damage to a UFO on a successful hit; the Small Scout has 50 HP. So even on a minimum damage(50), an Avalanche missile will blow a Small Scout into shrapnel. Whereas a Stingray, Cannon, or Laser Cannon can possibly crash the Small Scout, but damages it so badly in the process that there's nothing left for X-COM to salvage; just a lone alien to hunt. Arrow Quivershaft 15:45, 17 September 2008 (PDT)

Yes I understood all that previously. (Been playing for years.) It was better explained at the top of the page so the note at the bottom was superfluous as it was written. Plus technically it wasn't correct as is:

• "If the Small Scout was shot down by an Interceptor, there will be no UFO spawned; the craft is destroyed in the crash landing."

1. Reference to Interceptor: Doesn't matter what kind of X-Com craft shoots it down. As written it implies it does matter what craft.

2. Does matter what kind of weapon (vs craft) is used to shoot it down. Which isn't explained in the note, but is explained on the page.

3. "Shot down" is a inaccurate term. It implies a crash, vs "destroyed" which doesn't imply a crash.

4. As written it implied destruction was the only possible result. Highly likely, yes. I was surprised the first time I had one crash on me since I must have blown up dozens upon dozens by that time across many different games and had never had it happen.

5. While I understood what it was trying to say, the entire small note ended up contradicting the body of the page.

As my edit summary explained: "the note was better explained at the top of the page" but I still thought it wise to allay a player's concern that they had never been attacked by that kind of UFO. (A thought that crossed my mind the first time I saw it in game.) --Brunpal 10:53, 18 September 2008 (PDT)

I think I'm unsure what the debate here is now. What I am trying to explain is that if the UFO is shot down by anything("Interceptor" is used across the wiki as a generic term for any X-COM craft that can mount a weapon, though it does correctly refer to the fighter jet) and is NOT destroyed during the interception, the crash site of the UFO will spawn a single alien and no UFO. Is this what you understand me to be saying? Arrow Quivershaft 21:28, 24 September 2008 (PDT)

The only way that I know of to produce a "small scout" map with no actual small scout on it is to use XComUtil (which stops it appearing for who knows what reason). If you shoot one down but fail to destroy it (dual cannons are a good way to do this), you can send in your ground team and collect the craft. It'll be perfectly intact (because it has no power supply to go boom).

Yes, I tested it just this minute with CE. ;) If you have different results, check that your game isn't modded then report back on your version. - Bomb Bloke 03:07, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

I do indeed use XComUtil, with it, the game runs more stably(fewer crashes) and does not completely disrupt my screen resolution if and when it does crash and burn. So that'd be my error; apologies. Arrow Quivershaft 06:50, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

To answer your question AQ, I did not understand that you were saying the crash site of the UFO will spawn a single alien and no UFO. I don't use XComUtil (yet- will after my upgrade) but if a ground mission without a UFO is common behavior in XComUtil, then it's worth mentioning.

I have never seen a mission where there was an alien but no UFO, though I thought I had at the time. There was no UFO a couple of times on a fully explored map, but after reloading the UFO was just hiding behind a building or something each time I thought it didn't exist. I could only see it by using the top down perspective and setting the view to display exteriors of structures only. This UFO is tiny and easy to miss even when you are looking for it. When it's been shot down, it's even smaller. One time the landing gear was the only thing left. That may have happened to you, maybe not, but something to keep in mind.--Brunpal 08:38, 25 September 2008 (PDT)