Talk:Sonic Cannon

Sonic Cannon clips exhausting quickly?!

No, they don't. You have 10 rounds of continuous aimed (or snap in any case other than stationary sniping) fire before the clip runs out. A Sonic Pistol can empty in 7, and a Gauss Rifle in 3. Magic9mushroom 06:49, 6 March 2012 (EST)

Hmm. Just to fuss about it, if you're talking about continuous snapshots with the guns and nothings else, the Sonic Cannon actually runs out in 5. From actual practice, I find the cannon needs to be rearmed quite frequently. Especially on superhuman 2-parter missions or most big Lobsterman missions.

Once you have veterans that can hit 100+% kneeling snaps with the cannons, then you won't have to rearm so often. While they are developing, you most certainly will be exhausting the clips at a respectable rate.

Now let's see if this will update without getting disconnected part way through this time! -NKF 00:01, 7 March 2012 (EST)

I still maintain that they last longer than most weapons in continuous use, and so shouldn't be labled as "runs out quickly". With a single reload a Sonic Cannon is not going to run out before turn 20 in almost all cases. I *wish* I could say the same for the Gauss Rifle (and funny that you use Lobstermen as an example - you're going to have to reload about 10 times to knock one of those over with a Gauss Rifle vs 1 or 2 with a Sonic Cannon). Magic9mushroom 03:53, 7 March 2012 (EST)

Gauss rifles are natural ammo guzzlers due to their design. But if you are conservative and careful with your ammo then you'll obviously lengthen the life expectancy of your ammunition. This applies to any weapon. I mean, careful use of the dart gun can yield a glorious 12 turns of stunning potential for example. Heh - never said it was effective!

I suppose if you can guarantee that each and every shot fired will hit and kill its target on the first try, then yes the cannon power clip is not going to exhaust that quickly as you are tapping its full potential. In the hands of average developing aquanauts though, I don't think they'll be as lucky. Or, even if that were the case, bringing more aquanauts in with more cannons (effectively bringing more ammo in), will also slow down how quickly each individual clip is drained by spreading the load. -NKF 00:37, 8 March 2012 (EST)

I see I got reverted while I was away.

Saying that it exhausts quickly may be true in an absolute sense, but it's redundant to mention that in the Sonic Cannon's page since it's true of absolutely every weapon in TFTD (except the drills and M.C. Disrupter). To be true compared to other weapons in TFTD, the Sonic Cannon would have to require reloading more frequently than many other weapons in its normal mode of operation. Its normal mode of operation is 1 Aimed shot per turn, as 2 Snap shots per turn isn't feasible in the general case (since even turning to face the enemy you're trying to shoot will eat too much TU). That means that it will need reloading after 10 rounds of use.

Now, let's compare that to some other weapons that see use. I'll include both the case where they have less/equal TU to spend than a Sonic Cannon aimed shot and the case where they have more (but still under 100%). I'll even be generous and give them the whole turn on a turn when they don't have enough ammo for the use in question (but still over 0).

Jet Harpoon: 1/2 Auto shots per turn. Needs reloading after 4/2 turns.

Gas Cannon: 1/2 Snap shots per turn. Needs reloading after 8/4 turns.

Hydro-Jet Cannon: 1/2 Auto shots per turn. Needs reloading after 5/3 turns.

Gauss Pistol: 2/3 Auto shots per turn. Needs reloading after 4/3 turns.

Gauss Rifle: 1/2 Auto shots per turn. Needs reloading after 5/3 turns.

Sonic Pistol: 2/3 Snap shots per turn. Needs reloading after 10/7 turns.

Sonic-Blasta Rifle: 1 Aimed/2 Snap shots per turn. Needs reloading after 15/8 turns.

Thermal Shok Launcher: 1 Aimed shot per turn (identical TU distribution to Sonic Cannon). Needs reloading after 1 turn.

Disrupter Pulse Launcher: 1 launch per turn. Needs reloading after 1 turn.

So there's a grand total of 2 useful weapons (Sonic Pistol, Sonic-Blasta Rifle) that might need reloading less frequently than the Sonic Cannon, and even those are arguable based on what is and is not considered feasible TU usage (as you can see, every other weapon requires more frequent reloads even if you do assume the Sonic Cannon to fire twice per turn). Those same weapons are also the only two that can possibly claim to have more total firepower per clip (which again is debatable since it depends on how armoured the target is; I'd much rather hit a Superhuman Triscene with 10 Sonic Cannon rounds than with 20 Sonic Pistol rounds). Thus, I conclude that the Sonic Cannon does not warrant a special note of exhausting quickly. There should either be such a note on every single other weapon or not on the Sonic Cannon (but potentially on some others). Magic9mushroom (talk) 23:09, 14 August 2014 (EDT)

I can see you are quite passionate about this line. I must admit I've always approached more with an attitude of casual bemusement and only ever posted to be cheeky than to argue for the line. Let me propose a solution: Let's rephrase it.

I feel the contention here is that the line is being seen to be interpreted as 'this gun uses up ammo fast, carry spares' instead of 'this gun doesn't have much ammo, carry spares'. If it was reworded more along those lines, would that be more acceptable? NKF (talk) 02:27, 15 August 2014 (EDT)

I agree you need to carry spare clips. The point is that you need to carry spare clips for everything in TFTD, not just Sonic Cannons. So for a reader who's already adjusted to TFTD's smaller clip sizes, there's no need to mention it here (that is, a Sonic Cannon doesn't require more spare clips than other weapons). If the line stays here, then to be consistent there would need to be similar lines on almost all TFTD weapon pages; I think it's better to mention it in general pages but only on weapon pages when it's an issue over and above the standard "bring a spare clip for everything" TFTD mindset - that is, when a clip either depletes in a really small number of turns or carries a substandard total amount of firepower. Neither issue applies to the Sonic Cannon; even if you run into Lobster Men, the Sonic Cannon's efficient enough (high accuracy, extreme firepower) to put down half a dozen before you've run through your 20 shots. The Gauss weapons could probably do with such a note (and the Jet Harpoon certainly could), but here I don't think it's warranted. Magic9mushroom (talk) 03:47, 15 August 2014 (EDT)