Talk:Stun Rod
I have a question: this page says the stun rod is a 2-handed weapon. Normally using a two-handed weapon with one hand results in an accuracy penalty (-20% if I remember). Since I tend to use low-quality soldiers to try and stun aliens early in the game, I am thinking it would be wise to always try and use stun rods two-handed, to avoid the accuracy penalty. Am I right in looking at it this way?
Also, I see a few weapons with their "handedness" listed (mostly if they're two-handed) but most weapons entries don't mention if they're one or two-handed (Small Launcher, for example). This would be a good thing to accurately list for every weapon.
I'm also thinking there could be a separate wiki page for explaining "handedness", the importance of it, thoughts on the tradeoffs, etc. For example, I think the accuracy of the Blaster Bomb is 120% but it is considered a two-handed weapon, so my understanding is, you can put a second item in the other hand with no practical penalty.
- Erik
- Pistols are one-handed weapons. Everything larger is two-handed. If that needs an explanation, go head. Hobbes (talk) 03:07, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- The Stun (and TFTD's drill attacks) are a separate attack subroutine from the normal firing modes that are affected by this, so whether or not its attributes are set to be a 2-handed or 1-handed item never come into effect. It's only listed as 2-handed because that's what's in the game data. NKF (talk) 05:55, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
I don't think I've ever seen the stun rod miss. This is probably because you have to use it at point blank range - The only way you could fail to hit the target is if your unit actually turned away when you told him to use it. I've only ever seen a weapon misfire that badly once, so I don't think it's much of a risk.
Someone did some tests with the Blaster Launcher a little while ago, and it seems to be as accurate whether you're holding another weapon or not. My personal theory is that the accuracy only effects the initial launching of the weapon, and once it starts following waypoints it's effects are lost.
- I just fell victim to a nasty bug. During a base assault, I hit a Floater about 30 TIMES with the stun rod, yet it didn't deal any stun damage! I even tried attacking from the front instead of behind, still no effect! What's going on?--amitakartok 10:18, 26 October 2009 (EDT)
Either your OBDATA.DAT file is messed up (unlikely) or you've hit the max number of items possible in a mission (170 items on the battlescape at a time found in the OBPOS.DAT file). When this happens, you can't create anymore items (such as corpses or stunned aliens) until some items are destroyed. --Zombie 14:15, 26 October 2009 (EDT)
That someone was me, and Firing Accuracy (high or low) didn't seem to seem to affect any part of the bomb's flight path -- through the first waypoint, or otherwise. It might have an effect on reaction fire with a Blaster Launcher.
I've never tested to see if a Stun Rod could miss. Sometimes it fails to knock out an alien, but I always assumed that was because it did low damage. I guess we could try hacking its accuracy (and a soldier's melee accuracy) to see if it can miss.
--Ethereal Cereal 20:16, 2 July 2006 (PDT)
Regarding the stun rod, if the game were to use your hidden melee accuracy stat to calculate melee hit accuracy, then the grip would certainly matter. The game appears to have hard coded the melee accuracy to always hit adjacent targets. Whether or not you do any damage is up to the random number generator and the target's defence. So it's okay to use the stun rod with another weapon in the other hand. It's still a two handed weapon, but because accuracy does not matter, it works just as well.
Just an interesting note. The firing cost for the blaster launcher is in actual fact 66%. Not 80% as it is reported in the ufopaedia. The launch command is actually separate from the normal firing modes that we're accustomed to. I'm guessing the accuracy is in the same boat as melee accuracy. It is perhaps a fixed value that works independantly of your soldier's accuracy, so accuracy doesn't matter. Has anyone ever tried it with a 0 accuracy unit, such as what can be found on a mind controlled chryssalid? If you haven't, do give it a try and make what you will of it. Use the inventory trick or the mind controlled zombie trick to get one.
- NKF
I've just got two observations about the stun rod to add.
The first is that I've never ever experienced an alien firing a reaction shot when hit with a stun rod, even when hit from the front. I also think nearby aliens will not reaction fire either.
The second is that if the stun rod does do 65 (stun) damage it seems to take far too many hits to take down any alien. I might try an experiment sometime where I take a skyranger full of flying suit vets with psi amps, mind probes and stun rods to test out exactly how much damage they actually do. If so I will report the results here.
--Hot Logic 21:11, 7 November 2006 (PST)
It has been pointed out in a brief exchange in the article that while the attacks don't trigger the reaction shots, any other action that you do perform that triggers a reaction shot will cause a reaction shot. Good to know, I guess. So the trick is to keep still if your attempt has failed, and try and get someone else to pull you out of the fire.
As for the damage, don't forget that stun damage is also subject to the random number generator and unit armour. So you will not always be dealing 65 damage. I don't recall if the range of damage from the stun rod is doubled like it is for projectile launched stun damage. Anyway, refer to damage. Come to think of it, melee damage isn't that heavily covered in that section. Oh well.
- NKF
Reaction attack with a Stun Rod?
An unusual turn of phrase in the Reaction Fire article ("attacks of opportunity" - why not just "opportunity fire" unless it includes melee?) got me thinking about whether a unit can react with a Stun Rod or with any melee attack? Hard to test so I thought I would ask first. Do Reapers or other melee-only aliens react with their attacks?
(Just for fun I have begun a game using non lethal weapons only, to see if reaction use of a stun rod ever happens. My guys have stun rods and smoke grenades, HE packs for breaching & to clear obstacles, and a tank to hide behind. The tank is not allowed to fire its cannon except to open passages through terrain, and it has to use up its TUs so that it never reaction-fires.)
Spike 20:07, 21 March 2008 (PDT)
- I have never witnessed reaction fire with any melee attack; I have stood tanks next to various melee aliens and shot at them and never been struck back. So I personally doubt that any melee attack can be used in reaction fire. Arrow Quivershaft 20:43, 21 March 2008 (PDT)
Seen plenty of opportunities for a "reactive" melee attack, never actually seen one made. It's commonly assumed that they don't happen, NKF or Zombie have very likely done trials on the matter already.
Wouldn't be that hard to test though. Just bung a soldier right next to a Chrys, max out the aliens' reaction/TU stats, and have your man wander around.
Then create a 3x3 room, stick your man in the center with a stun rod and likewise maxed stats, and leave an unarmed muton or something in there with him.
- Bomb Bloke 04:14, 22 March 2008 (PDT)
- If there was code that controlled melee attacks in reaction attacks, we would've seen evidence of it by now with the melee aliens and with your own units armed with a melee weapon (particularly if you've been playing TFTD with its drills). Reaction attacks seem to be an automatic action that all off-turn units can perform if all the conditions are met. Notice how (armed) civilians can use reaction fire, but aren't able to manually shoot at you on their own turn.
- The phrase attack of opportunity, if I'm not mistaken, was either taken or derived from one of the game manuals. -NKF 07:23, 22 March 2008 (PDT)
Yes it's as much the odd phrase I'm wondering about. The phrase "attack of opportunity" is not in the official X-COM Ufo Defense manual - that manual uses the phrase Opportunity Fire and has a section with that title. Opportunity Fire is also the phrase used in the various GDW games that X-COM is derived from.
I wonder what happens if a unit has a melee weapon as its active weapon and a fire weapon in the other hand. Would it take a reaction shot using the alternate weapon? And presumably no unit will ever reaction-fire with a thrown weapon such as a grenade? Hmm maybe this should move to the Reaction Fire section. Spike 10:00, 22 March 2008 (PDT)
- No unit will never reaction fire with a thrown weapon(in order to do so, you'd need a good number of TUs, or need to have primed the grenade ahead of time!) In either case, the designers decided(wisely, IMO) that grenades are something that should be used only at player discretion. I've had troops killed by a missed reaction shot...with grenades, you lose your squad, not one man.
- Regarding your second issue...A unit will only switch its reaction fire from one weapon to another after the first weapon runs out of ammo. The Stun Rod has infinite ammo, so it will always pass the "Ammo left?" check. Thus, any unit with a stun rod as the active weapon will never take a reaction shot, even if they're holding a gun in the other hand! Arrow Quivershaft 11:42, 22 March 2008 (PDT)