Talk:TRTBAG

The Deep One Dilemma

Too lazy to check, but are there really no Deep Ones in Gill Man Bases? After all, a base is considered dry ground... --Schnobs 07:03, 10 November 2007 (PST)

Well, X-Com base attacks by Gillmen have Deep-Ones, but not in Colonies built by Gill-Men. These are underwater. Even so, Gillmen will only supply the base, the base itself will have a fixed selection of crews involving Tasoth on the first level and Lobstermen on the second level.

The only place you'll find a Deep One underwater naturally is in the final mission. - NKF

Interesting. You guys say that the Tasoth commander can block the final research and prevent you from completing the game. Can't you just hex-edit so that the research will be available like the other one? I know it's cheating, but cheating for a good purpose.--amitakartok 06:31, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

@Amitakartok: yes, you can hex-edit the save. I remember doing it a few times after researching a Tasoth Commander. It worked fine.

@Schnobs, @NKF: Deep Ones also appear in mixed crew Dreadnoughts (also underwater). If the RNG picks the correct race mix, that is. If luck shines on you, you will find exactly one Deep One in such a ship. The problem is finding a mixed crew Dreadnought. I noticed that mixed crews start appearing after exactly one year has passed (ie, on the 1st of January 2041) and never become a frequent sight. Surviving the year without advanced armour and M.C. is the difficult part, although with some luck, you might also get M.C. from another live terrorist, not just the Deep One.

Also, note that the inavailability of the Ion Armour didn't use to be a nuisance in the unpatched DOS version. I learned about the existence of Ion Armour quite recently, when I failed at researching a live Deep One at the correct time in the patched TFTD version which I play now. In fact, I think I managed to finish the game without ever researching a live Deep One at some point ~10 years ago (although my memory might be deceiving me). mingos

• The listed research is misleading you can research all of it out of order just so long as you get the Plastic Aqua Armor and IBA before a Live Deep one. In both 2.1 and CE, I was able to do the flowing research.

   Project              New Research
1. Live Deep One      - Alien origins  M.C.-Lab
2. Dead Deep One      - Aquaplasitcs
3. IBA                - Nothing
3. Mag Nav            - Trans Resolver
4. Live Deep One      - Nothing
5. Aqua Plastics      - Plastic Aqua Armor
6. Live Deep One      - Nothing
7. Plastic Aqua Armor - Nothing
8. Live Deep One      - Ion Armor
9. Ion Armor          - Mag Ion Armor

Using the route listed on the article page misses the opportunity to have transmission resolver early on. --BladeFireLight 01:43, 5 March 2010 (EST)

Well that was odd. my browser crashd and now the aritcal no longer says you should research in the displayed order. ??? --BladeFireLight 01:54, 5 March 2010 (EST)

Invalid aliens

So the Tasoth Commander is not treated as a valid alien? Interesting, I very often captured live aliens, including Tasoth Commanders, and found that they did not become available for research. Does this happen with more race and/or race+rank combinations? I know I never ever managed to capture and research a live terrorist, save for Deep Ones, Tentaculats and Bio Drones. I remember getting Xarquid, Hallucinoid and Triscene in the UFOpaedia by interrogating Aquatoid Medics, but in my whole life (over 10 years playing TFTD!) I had the opportunity to see the Calcinite UFOpaedia entry once and only once (Aquatoid Medic). This particular alien is interesting for me because the article states that it can substitute a live Deep One for M.C. Lab. In other words, at least in the patched version, which I acquired very recently via Steam and am still trying to beat for the first time, alien terrorists are recognised without problems? Mingos @ 01:55 AM (CET), 5 September 2009

Ah, so someone else who's seen a Tasoth Commander! Knew I wasn't going mad. What version of the game did you recall seeing this on? Have been having a lot of trouble trying to locate one in-game to re-test the notes I took when I was writing this article.

Not capturing or seeing some of the aliens, I believe, is quite random. I never saw some of the aliens (or get MC tech) on my very first play through the game, but encountered them in a later play through. -NKF 20:00, 5 September 2009 (EDT)

I captured Tasoth Commanders in the unpatched DOS version which I played a lot in late 90s. I never saw a Tasoth Commander in the patched version I got on Steam, but that's probably because they can only be found in Dreadnoughts, which I tend to avoid at all times unless they happen to land. I saw a Gill Man Commander yesterday, but they're documented as valid aliens (the only Gill Men capable of Molecular Control attacks). I don't know about availability for research, I just killed the bastard :D.

Nonetheless, I have all techs researched in my current game, save for sonic weapons, which I intentionally skipped. If I happen to encounter a landed Dreadnought with something else than Lobster Men, I'll assault it and make sure I stun the alien Commander instead of blowing his brains out. After all, I won't lose the T'Leth research item now that it's already in my UFOpaedia. mingos

The problem with the unfamous Tasoth Commander is NOT in the version of the game. As I have a legal copy of the original DOS TFTD V.1.0, I dare say that this alien CANNOT be seen in ANY of full, legal version of the game. I have also checked some other copies, found on the Net. They are all the same (at least when comparing game files, not extra files). Neither DOS V.1.0 nor DOS V.2.0 nor DOS V.2.0 nor CE. If there are people who saw it, they must have played some beta or pirate version.

Anyway, the advice to patch the game to the version 2.0 is incorrect: there is not Tasoth Commander in the version 1.0.

The problem is unrelated to such or another mission or ship but to the game data files rather. It is even unimportant whether such an alien can be really met on a mission or not. You may place such an alien in your Alien Containment by editing ASTORE.DAT (set first two bytes to 04h 01h, and the third byte to 00h to place the alien in your first base) - but none of official versions of the game (including DOS 1.0) can even see it, so you will not be able to examine it. And even if your game have seen it somehow, there is another serious problem. The structure of PROJECT.DAT file excludes the possibility of examining Tasoth Commander. Simply there is no place for it in the data structure of the file.

In other words, in any of the official, genuine versions of the game there is no possibility to examine Tasoth Commander, and, as a consequence, you need not patch your game to avoid possible errors (however, playing TFTD 1.0 without installing 2.0 patch may be a stupid idea for other reasons). Only a beta/pirate/unofficial version of the game, with a nonstandard structure of PROJECT.DAT file, could allow examining Tasoth Commander.

Unfortunately, I have never seen such a beta version. It would be great if anyone could share his/her version of the game which allows examining of Tasoth Commander (read: which has a nonstandard structure of PROJECT.DAT). Until such a game issue is found, all stories on Tasoth Commander should be treated as urban legends.

Sherlock 16:24, 27 December 2012 (EST)

I doubt any warez peddlers in the past would've bothered to alter the game except to insert a virus or to insert their signature into the game, much less go to such lengths to affect such an obscure aspect of the game. In this day and age though, I don't think it's really that much of a concern anymore. I've never been able to replicate it, and it's likely a result of (old) 3rd party editors altering the save files improperly. Can't rule out run-time glitches too. Of course, still open to anyone providing a copy of the game if it just so happens to occur again. -NKF 21:51, 27 December 2012 (EST)

Things that are not bugs

Alien interrogations having to be the last prerequisite makes sense, because you have to know what to interrogate for. It's not a bug, so we shouldn't list it.

This covers Deep One for Ion Armour, Tasoth for M.C. Disruptor and the high-ranking aliens for The Ultimate Threat/T'leth, the Alien's City. Magic9mushroom 05:32, 5 September 2009 (EDT)

True, these aren't bugs as such, just technicalities. They are mostly mentioned for completeness sake and to alleviate any confusion that might arise when players don't see the research when they know they've researched that alien before. Not everyone knows the correct order to research the aliens and may end up feeling like they are unable to progress the game.

The Deep One however is a real bug in the sense that if you research one, it won't always re-appear on the research list for you to research again. If it does appear, then you're fine. If it doesn't appear, then you're stuck. -NKF 20:09, 5 September 2009 (EDT)

Graphical tech tree

How about adding a graphical tech tree like the one found here [1] which contains all the needed info at a glance? Another incomplete version would be [2]). --Tauon 16:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

That's not a bad idea. It would a good way to summarize the article. NKF 09:29, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

The above mentioned picture as "1" is now accessible at this address, see my profile for more.

Sherlock 11:52, 27 December 2012 (EST)

Alien Origins

I've just started a game using version 1.0. The Alien Origins topic only appeared after I did the live Deep One research (I had completed both the live Gillman and Aquatoid). Is this a difference between versions? Hobbes 14:57, 3 January 2011 (EST)

It could very well be. Are you able to run a few more quick tests to verify? -NKF 14:45, 4 January 2011 (EST)

Just tested but this time a live Aquatoid unlocked Alien Origins. Weird. But this is a game where I cant manufacture Ion Beam Accellerators, for some reason Hobbes 15:03, 4 January 2011 (EST)

Alien Re-Animation Zone

I can't research it on v1. Does the same happens on v2? Hobbes 19:24, 4 January 2011 (EST)

Blind Alleys

A number of techs seem to be blind alleys, in that you can research them, but they don't give you any new technology nor do they help you win the game. Examples would be Alien Reanimation Zone, Alien Learning Arrays, and possibly others.

There are also a number of "discretionary" technologies, meaning you do get something extra if you research them, but you don't need it. Examples would be blade / drill weapons, the DPL, and MC.

Is the above supposition correct or are all technologies, even if useless in themselves, gateways to other techs? 4th Cuirassier 09:28, 17 January 2011 (EST)

That is correct. The only essential topics to winning the game are the ones that lead to the end-game topics and Leviathan research. Everything else else is either a dead end topic or convenient but optional. -NKF 13:50, 17 January 2011 (EST)

Is there a listing anywhere of things you can't make?

Other than Zrbite and actual aliens, is there anything in the game you can't make but can only salvage?

Is there a list anywhere of stuff you can make only with the right special materials?

AFAICR, the latter would be:

- all alien ammunition; - all interceptor sonic weapons; - all armour (requires aqua plastics or plastics and Zrbite) - you can make plastic aqua armour, but only if you research and make aqua plastics first; - IBAs and Magnetic Navigation?

The last I'm not sure about. I've only just resumed play after a 10-year break.

I would think this would be handy to have in either the strategy guide or the techs page. I have fallen foul in the past of selling off too much ammunition and then finding I couldn't spare enough Zrbite to build any more. 4th Cuirassier 09:34, 17 January 2011 (EST)

I don't recall if we have (or where) such tables would be, but I agree that it would be useful to have. When we get round to the 'release' version of the new expanded TFTD main menu, it should become a lot easier to access the various useful data tables for this game like it is for UFO.

For manufacture only, don't forget the Gauss weapons and the (ultra-buggy) Coelacanth/Gauss and its ammo. Following on from that are the Displacers. Advanced submarines too.

For recover only, there's the all important 'Sub Construction' store item. And various other alien sub and colony doohickeys and accoutrements.

I can't remember exactly off the top of my head, but either the IBA or Magnetic Navigation will vary from being recoverable or manufacture-only depending on if your game is v1.0, v2.0 or v2.1. TFTD CE is v2.0. -NKF 02:19, 18 January 2011 (EST)

Fixing Project.dat

In my current game I have Mag Ion Armour but don't seem to able to research Alien Sub Contruction. I'm wondering if I screwed up earlier in assuming that Xcomutil patches this. Hope I don't have to restart...4th Cuirassier 09:55, 18 January 2011 (EST)

In order to research Alien Sub Construction, you need to have a "Sub Construction" item in your base inventory when you complete research on either Zrbite or the Transmission Resolver. If you have already completed BOTH of these, it becomes difficult to get Sub Construction research to appear. If you lack a suitable save to roll back to, you can correct this by editing certain save-game files to correct the lack of oversight on the part of Microprose. If you lack knowledge in hex-editing, I can do it for you. Arrow Quivershaft 02:12, 21 January 2011 (EST)

I thought I had avoided doing that - researching Zrbite / TR - but I suspect that I had researched one of them at the wrong time. I now have ASC in my inventory but it's not coming up as a researchable item. I've got Mag Ion Armour and the various drills researched, which in some previous games I haven't managed to research.

The more I read about this game's bugs the more astonished I am that I ever completed it at all. That said, I've only ever finished it once despite having played easily half a dozen games to an advanced stage.

Thanks for the offer re the hex edit. I will look at the link and get back. 4th Cuirassier 05:59, 21 January 2011 (EST)

OK, I've looked at the article about PROJECT.DAT and I'm completely baffled.4th Cuirassier 06:09, 21 January 2011 (EST)

Hex editing is not easy stuff to start with; it's fairly complicated until you get the hang of it, which is why I offered. :)

As for researching the ASC, you needed to have an ASC in base inventory when Zrbite or TR research was completed. If you didn't, but get an ASC afterwards, it "doesn't count" due to bugs. If you have armor above Aqua Plastic, you had to have researched Zrbite, and I'm betting you also researched the TR as well(as HWD/TR is generally a high-priority research item, due to the time to build one after research and the sheer usefulness of having one), and if so, you'll need to be doing editing to get ASC to work. Arrow Quivershaft 06:47, 21 January 2011 (EST)

If you are using Windows, you'll probably have a copy of MS-Edit on hand if it's Windows 95 through to XP. Not sure about 7. It can be used as a hex-editor of sorts. Read the MS-Edit page for particulars and a crash course in how to use it.

What you need to do is open the project.dat file with a column width of 282. This will give you 8 rows, each one representing each base slot. The row/column and value fields are in the lower right hand corner of the screen.

Before you start editing anything, make sure your cursor is the overwrite block cursor by pressing insert. This is very important as you don't want to be inserting more information into the file than there should be.

I'm assuming you are researching in the first base - if not, simply press the down key to drop down to the proper base slot.

Scroll across to column 39. The offset's different from what's mentioned in the project.dat page because MS-Edit starts with 1 for its column numbers. Now hold down the control key and type p and a. That's just a fancy MS-Edit key sequence to enter a character that has a value of 1. Do the same with offset 207 (in MS-Edit's column 208). This will assign 1 day remaining to the project and 1 scientist to it. Save the file.

Hopefully that should do the trick. -NKF 07:25, 21 January 2011 (EST)

Guys, many thanks - I am away from the PC I am running the game on but will try this tonight. 4th Cuirassier 08:17, 21 January 2011 (EST)

OK, I got nowhere = I found one editor but couldn't find a way to view it 282 columns wide and another simply produced a sort of light blue screen. Very odd. No idea what to do next. 4th Cuirassier 16:46, 21 January 2011 (EST)

Have you tried MS-Edit? Just go to a dos console box or via start\run type in edit and see if it goes. With any other hex editor you're going to have to work the actual offsets, and hexadecimal values. -NKF 17:01, 21 January 2011 (EST)

OK, it does indeed go, but all I get is a blue text box with 2 or 3 symbols in it. There's a capital A with an accent, a little smiley face, and what not. I tried searching for the character 0 but got no results. 4th Cuirassier 17:22, 21 January 2011 (EST)

That's perfectly fine. MS-Edit is really designed to be a plain text editor, but once you get the hang of it the binary editing capabilities make it quite easy to alter the X-Com game files that are in table format. What you're looking at on the screen are the ASCII characters that the values are representing. a 'd' for example would mean a value of 100 while an alias symbol @ would mean 64. If you are interested, MS-Edit#Editing has a diagram of what all the symbols mean.

Of course, while editing don't worry about the symbols on the screen. Use the 'value' field in the lower right hand corner to see exactly what it is your cursor is currently on. -NKF 20:14, 21 January 2011 (EST)

Well tonight I can't find MS-Edit - it appears not to be on my PC any more. Yesterday it was there, today it's not and I dunno how I ran it...anyway, here is what I get when I look at PROJECT.DAT using a downloaded version of MSEdit:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m62/beaufighter/MSEDitscreengrab.jpg

and here is what I get when I open it using something called UltraEdit

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m62/beaufighter/Ultraeditscreengrab.jpg

...neither of which gets me anywhere. Cannot find any command that allows me to make the display 282 columns wide. So I've no idea what to do. 4th Cuirassier 19:42, 22 January 2011 (EST)

Strange, is that the same editor that comes with Windows? Edit.com should be located in c:\windows\system32.

I've Googled around a bit and it seems the 64-bit version of Windows 7 no longer includes it, but is still in the 32-bit version. -NKF 21:05, 22 January 2011 (EST)

In the end I gave up and reloaded a game from three game months earlier. I found that I was researching both Zrbite and the Transmission Resolver at the same time, without an Alien Sub Construction in the inventory. So I took all the scientists off both projects, and started them off on Medi-kits instead.

If I come across an easy - or at least a step-by-step - way to edit PROJECT.DAT I will post details. I may email the file to myself at work and mess about with it during lunch or something. 4th Cuirassier 07:13, 23 January 2011 (EST)

v2.1 and the CE

I read that the MC reader bug can be fixed by v2.1. Is this patch compatible with the CE? And does the Extender take care of it?

Yes I believe the research tree bug where you require an MC Reader to be present in stores is fixed by the TFTD Extender. And also I think XComUtil fixes it, although more crudely. Spike 15:19, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

Oh ok, so I don't need the 2.1 patch then. Thanks ^^