Talk:Unit Stats (Apocalypse)

Name

Should we rename this article to "Enemy Stats" or even rename it "Unit Stats" and stick the starting stats of Agents on here? Magic9mushroom (talk) 11:09, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

I'd support "Unit Stats", as the table already includes civilians, and the other humans aren't necessarily enemies. Just add a note that the values for XCOM agents are starting stats, and stats for XCOM non-combatants and turrets. Oh, and there's the Sectoid prisoners in the alien dimension - I think they use civilian stats but I'm not sure. Darkpast (talk) 16:38, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

The Sectoids might use the starting stats for Hybrids; Hybrids are listed as Alien Grey in the files, after all. Of course, it doesn't matter what their stats are since they don't do anything.

And yeah, I was planning on adding the caps as well, since I know all of them now. Magic9mushroom (talk) 17:00, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Speed

Is Speed really irrelevant for immobile units? Isn't it at least used for reaction fire in Turn-Based, or does Apocalypse use a different formula? Darkpast (talk) 10:02, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't know the exact formula for reaction fire in Apoc, but the one from UFO/TFTD works off percentage of TU remaining. Aside from rounding-error issues, the only things for which your quantity of TU matters are things that depend on the actual amount of TU (rather than percentage) - and AFAIK fixed costs in Apoc only apply to movement. Now, technically there is an issue with rounding error on TU costs for firing weapons (e.g. someone with 66 TU spends 1 TU to autofire the M4000, while someone with 67 spends 2 TU) but the immobile aliens and security stations use weapons with low RoF so it's not that blatant. Magic9mushroom (talk) 10:56, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Speed and TUs

My testing reveals that what's called "Speed" in Apoc'd actually refers to the TUs used in turn-based mode. According to data gathered by using the Mind Bender at Medium difficulty, actual real-time Speed seems to be different. Here are the results of the testing:

Alien / TUs / Real time Speed

Multiworm / 48 / 48

Hyperworm / 88 / 88

Anthropod / 60 / 56

Skeletoid / 96 / 80

Spitter / 59 / 56

Megaspawn / 54 / 56

Popper 118 / 112

Psimorph 38 / 40

Micronoids 32 / 40

Immobile units have Speed = 0

It appears that the game takes TUs and rounds them to the nearest number divisible by 8 to get real-time Speed. Darkpast (talk) 13:49, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

That doesn't look like rounding, particularly not the way X-Com always does rounding (i.e. truncation). Some of them go up and the Skeletoid isn't even close.

I'd suggest testing this kind of thing on Beginner difficulty, since you don't have to worry about difficulty level adjustment there. Once you've got that figured out, then going to the higher difficulties is useful. Magic9mushroom (talk) 14:26, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I've totally missed the Skeletoid... I'll try again at Beginner, but I guess I need a break first. Darkpast (talk) 14:56, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Okay, with some hacking (putting all the aliens in a building on Cityscape, then assigning them to X-COM during the mission) on Beginner I got this:

Alien	TUs	Displayed Speed
Non-moving	w/e	0
Brainsucker	90	88
Multiworm	45	48
Hyperworm	82	80
Anthropod	56	56
Skeletoid	86	88
Spitter	55	56
Popper	110	112
Megaspawn	50	48
Psimorph	36	40
Micronoid	30	40

The weird bit is that in Apoc'd they all still come up as having their TU amount, and the ones whose speed is above (8*(TU/8)) show the excess 8 or 16 as a speed improvement. That Micronoid is making me suspect that either something weird's going on, or there's a floor of 40 for real-time displayed speed; the rest is consistent with rounding (actual rounding, to wit).

Of course, another question is "do they use the speed in the game files or the speed you see displayed". Magic9mushroom (talk) 15:11, 21 June 2020 (UTC)