Talk:Biological Warfare (Apocalypse)

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How much damage does Toxin C do to humans, as compared to the Devastator? A while back, I examined the values for damage modifiers (in Apoc'd, I think), and it seemed that Toxin C does significantly more damage (per second) against an unarmored human. This does not seem right. :( - NinthRank 21:32, 19 November 2007 (PST)


I don't know how it works, but I'm thinking that the game has an additional damage modifier that it applies to toxin and anti-alien gas damage after it determines if the unit is an alien or otherwise. With gas, it just deals no damage (you hear it working though with the cracking noise). Toxin rounds might just be multiplied by something like 0.05 or 0.1 to drop its damage down to a small level. But again, that's just a wild guess. Some real data might be handy though. - NKF 22:09, 19 November 2007 (PST)


Which is generally what Apoc'd reports; all damage modifiers are editable there. - Zaimoni 8:27, 20 November 2007 (CST)


Well, Apoc'd says that humans take 25% damage from all toxins and 100% damage from disruptor weapons. That means that Toxiguns with C-Clips do 85 * 0.25 * 4.50 = 95.625 damage per second (on average, I think, I am not sure how damage really works), while Devastator Cannons do 70 * 1.00 * 0.90 = 63 damage per second. Against armor, Toxiguns would be even better because they do 30% damage against all X-COM-wearable armors. Still, typical human enemies do not wear armor. None of this takes into account the accuracies of the guns or the fact that Devastators can be dual-wielded on full-auto but Toxiguns cannot.

According to this, Toxiguns should out-perform Devastators in all situations, but testing against a Disruptor-Armored Agent with two shields and 100 health, both weapons performed the same, killing in approximately ten seconds.

So... this is all very confusing to me! - NinthRank 17:04, 20 November 2007 (PST)


What I meant about getting actual data was to get field observations of damage done to an unarmoured unit. I must say I've re-evaluated my opinion on Toxin-C - it hurts! Not as much as a single devestator beam, but it really dishes out the damage. I must've been thinking of the A rounds when I made my comment.

Anyway, ignore rate of fire. Let's go by the damage dealt by individual bullets. I don't have the stamina to take lots of tests and get a very in-depth analysis of this, and only took a 12 quick samples, so I cannot verify the actual damage ranges and am only going to work on an assumption.

I assume Apocalypse handles damage the same as its predecessors - it does anywhere between 0 and double the damage, then multiplies it by the damage factor, takes off armour from the limb it hit, etc. Toxin-C does 85 damage. 85 * 2 * 0.25 = 42.5 . Round that down and we get 42. So we can expect it to deal 0 - 42 damage to unarmoured limbs against humans.

The test I did seemed to bring up lots of values between 20 - 22, which is a good indicator that I'm somewhere close to the mark as 21 is half of 42.

A devestator does 70 with no damage reduction, so it's expected to deal 0 - 140 damage.

Now taking rate of fire into account.

Toxin-C = 42 * 3 = 126 dmg/s
Devestator = 140 * 0.9 = 126 dmg/s

Technically you'd still get 3 lots of 0 - 42 with Toxin-C and one lot of 0 - 140 for the Devastator, but hey it looks like they're not too shabby! Plus three lots of attacks means a larger chance of getting better minimum damage.

- NKF 22:09, 20 November 2007 (PST)