Talk:Alien Appearance Ratios (TFTD)

In these tables there is only one column for "Mixed Crew", but there are two different sorts of Mixed Crew. What's going on here? Magic9mushroom 07:34, 7 February 2012 (EST)

That's because there's only one column of probabilities available in the table that is taken directly from the game executable. I think where the mixed crew types 1 and 2 come from is the equipment and rank makeup tables. NKF 01:08, 8 February 2012 (EST)

So a single Alien Surface Attacks mission with a Mixed Crew (according to this table, the only Mixed Crew mission that should ever occur) could have different (ie Tasoth-based vs. Lobsterman-based) crews on different subs? This sounds like it needs to be checked. Magic9mushroom 02:35, 8 February 2012 (EST)

I had a re-read of the relevant articles, and I see the game specifically marks them as a type 4 and type 5, yet the probability table only has one column for both. If this is the case, then the game must do a toss between the two main races at the time it decides on creating the surface attack scouting wave or instant surface attack mission. NKF 02:52, 8 February 2012 (EST)

The choice between the two types of Mixed Crew appears to be not the only one the game makes. Tasoths on land missions can be accompanied by either Bio-Drones or Triscenes (not by both). I have saved a game just before a Shipping Lane Attack mission, and tried to start playing from it several times. And I have always got Tasoths + Bio-Drones on a Cargo Ship Terror mission. So, the "racial" contents of the alien crew as well as the type of the attacked ship must be fixed before the start of the mission. The only thing that changes is the number of the aliens.

As a result, in the observed alien appearance ratios some sub-types are distinguished:

1. Tasoths on land missions

 (a) Tasoths + Bio-Drones
 (b) Tasoths + Triscenes

2. Mixed Crew on land missions

2.1.
 (a) Tasoths + Bio-drones + Aquatoids + Xarquids (or Calcinites?)
 (b) Tasoths + Triscenes + Aquatoids + Calcinites (or Xarquids?)
2.2.
 (c) Lobster Men + Bio-Drones (or Calcinites???) + Aquatoids + Deep Ones

(Details on Mixed Crew are quite a mystery for me; here I am relying on the contents of Mixed Crew article rather than on my own observations from the game.)

Do you know how and where the sub-types are coded in the game exe or/and data files?

Sherlock 09:12, 19 January 2013 (EST)

a) Sonic research encouraging tougher aliens b) Tasoth appearance time error?

I've seen this referred to elsewhere, but I can't find it now: someone wanting to "bust the myth" that lobstermen appear later if you delay research on sonics. I'm just playing a superhuman game, and have researched all sonics pretty much as late as possible, and lobsters haven't appeared until June. It definitely feels like a very late showing, and it came just after I got my first few sonics.

I had the same occur in UFO with late appearing snakemen (& mutons and ethereals) when I delayed plasma research.

If the new appearance percentages come in on the 1st of every other month, and don't ramp up gradually, then this data supports the tentative theory for me: it has been quite marked. How well understood is the code about this?

As a second, related point, something appears to be wrong somewhere with these charts: Playing TFTD on steam, with Xcomutil being used to catch bugs and having an otherwise "classic" game, I had a Tasoth and Bio-drone cargo ship terror mission on May 1st, which should be flat-out impossible according to these tables. It's now June 16th and I still haven't seen them since.

Even though the aliens start to get the probability of appearing, that doesn't always guarantee that they'll appear. I had one game in UFO where I never even met the Mutons. Once they get a probability of appearing, missions for these races will start to get scheduled from the 1st and will not necessarily show up right away. What you'll get initially will be the leftovers from the last month.

I'm not sure about the slightly earlier Tasoth mission, unless these probabilities only affect the normal sub waves that go out searching for a terror site and the monthly instant terror missions follow slightly different rules (Or suffer a fencepost error). XComutil doesn't touch the probabilities, and I doubt the probabilities will have changed when the Dos version was ported to the CE version. -NKF 03:55, 19 June 2012 (EDT)

Tasoths + Bio-Drone shipping route attacks in May may be a rule in the game, or an result of a bug. I have just got one as well. And I have checked missions.dat - there is no trace of any Tasoth activity there, only 0 (Aquatoids) and 1 (Gill Men) missions. Which is more, there is not a single Alien Surface Attack active mission recorded in there as well. I have checked saved games before the attack (of April 2040) and after the mission, and still no trace of any Tasoth alien mission at all.

In addition: the place of the attack is not very far from a base of mine. There is a Wide Array Sonar in the base, so the chance of detecting a battleship heading for the attack was not very low - but I did not detect anything, and such an event is not the first time. It looks like the aliens emerged from beneath the waves just to the attacked ship.

Some interesting questions arise then:

(1) Shouldn't any alien active mission be recorded in missions.dat?

(2) Is there a possibility that some kind of alien activities are hard recorded (in the exe) and are thus basic events of the game timeline (or its milestones)?

(3) Or perhaps the-first-day-of-the-month alien surface attacks are not scheduled in the same way like other alien missions?

And, as a consequence, tasoths may appear on them even if they should not have appeared yet, as it is too early for it according to the game alien appearance ratios?

Sherlock 09:35, 19 January 2013 (EST)