Talk:Best Starting Weapons (TFTD)

Excellent article, NKF. Spike 02:51, 10 December 2008 (CST)

Not trying to be nit-picky, but you left out the hand-held Torpedo Launcher. Muton commander 11:52, 21 December 2008 (CST)

As was the thermal tazer and grenades. It was intentional. Torpedo launchers are not weapons that you'll be wanting to arm the entire team with - at least in most normal games. The two stronger weapons that I do cover tend to be more medium-weights than heavies like the torpedo launcher. -NKF 22:48, 21 December 2008 (CST)

You COULD include your reasoning for the torpedo launcher in your discussion... actually, in TFTD, arming the entire team with torpedo launchers doesn't make a lot of sense... but it makes more sense than arming an entire team with Dart Guns. Do you believe me?

Also, Gauss weapons are terrible because YOU HAVE TO MANUFACTURE AMMO FOR THEM. It really screws up your production line. In addition, placing a Heavy Gauss among your starting weapons, but not putting Sonic Pistol in there is a bit weird. I mean, by the end of the first few weeks, you should have a sonic pistol and clip ready for research, maybe a blastaa rifle. So, given a choice, should you research Heavy Gauss, or Sonic Rifle... I would choose the sonic rifle! The heavy gauss is hardly a "starting weapon"... in XCOM, you would research Heavy Laser for 2 reasons. 1. Sectopods. 2. Laser Cannons.

As you said, gas cannons ability to be used above ground bumps them up many notches on the weapon rankings.

Why do you mention ION ARMOR as part of your combinations for STARTING weapons??? Jasonred 02:05, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

The minute you go on a land mission with nothing but torpedo launchers... I didn't include grenades as starting weapons either, even though I often encourage others to try out grenadier campaigns.

The gauss weapons' ammo manufacturing isn't as bad as it seems - at least for the pistol and rifle ammo. It's like buying the ammo - only it takes less time to arrive. The increased power of the gauss weapons (relative to the darts) easily make up for the higher cost, and selling a few recovered items every mission easily covers the cash invested. You won't get back the engineer time, but you'll still be able to crank out adequate quantities of gauss pistol or gauss rifle ammo very quickly at 20 and 45 tech hours needed for each. Even your starting 10 engineers can crank out ammo at a consistent enough pace to keep a few aquanauts well stocked for each mission until better stuff arrives.

The default Heavy Gauss just doesn't cut mustard, but is mainly included because you get it without gathering any equipment from the field.

As for the Ion Armor it was never a main topic of discussion and was merely mentioned once in the context of something that could assist the player use Hydro Jet Cannon in close quarters. That can be done any time during the game. -NKF 07:19, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

Hmm.. maybe. But I recall going on terror missions with Gauss and having huge ammo problems... ah shit, now I remember. The 80 item limit really hurts on those 2 part terror missions. It really makes the PAYLOAD factor kick in. ... One more reason to rush sonic weapons I guess.

As for manufacturing time, it is not a crippling amount of engineering time, but it is still pretty significant, especially on higher difficulty levels. You can easily burn through 15 clips per mission, if Gauss is your main armament. Admittedly, 4 missions a month only comes to 60 rifle clips, which is 2 days for 30 engineers, so it's not that bad... as for cost... gauss ammo is cheaper overall than Sonic ammo, right?

New topic branch time.

Skipping Gauss Weapons

In Xcom, researching laser weapons first is considered a matter of course... after all, you didn't want to be still using pistols and rifles when the Mutons arrive. Heck, even snakemen were hard to put down with those things.

However, in TFTD, Gauss has some huge failings. Using Ammo (a HUGE difference in the 2 stage terror missions and the alien artefact sites!), enemy resistances against Gauss are huge...

In my last few TFTD games, I skipped Gauss entirely and completely. Instead, as soon as I captured alien tech, I concentrated on Sonic Weapons, as well as Aqua plastics and armor.

Note that researching up to Gauss Rifles takes 450 scientist days, 910 for Heavy Gauss. Sonic Pistol + Clip take 1000 days.

The whole POINT of laser weapons in Xcom was that, early on, you could make do with terrestial weapons (actually, the explosive weapons stay good til the end of the game). Researching Laser Weapons gave you something powerful for when the tougher aliens started appearing. Laser rifles killed anything except Superhuman Sectopods with good efficiency.

Gauss Weapons... when the tougher aliens start appearing, Gauss becomes really weak and not very useful. Lobstermen laugh these off, Tasoth's take quite a few shots from this...

And the item management issue. Sigh. Laser Weapons were much treasured for the ability to bring in 20 soldiers to the mission and only need 20 item slots. Those Gauss things... aargh. You gotta bring at least 60 items, 20 guns and 40 clips, and even that will get spent really fast.

Overall, I would say that Laser Weapons are a very good long term investment in Xcom... you spend 450 lab days and a few engineering weeks, and you use them for the entire campaign. Gauss, you spend longer in engineering, and then you only use Gauss for maybe a month before realizing that you have to throw it away and rely completely on sonic weapons.

NKF seems to favor gauss... personally, I don't bother using it anymore. ... Any other opinions among you Xcommies out there?

Well Gauss weapons do have some uses. First of all though, if you are equipping squads based on what you learned in the first game, you'll have problems. Gauss weapons are not meant to be an entire team weapon like lasers were in EU. Weapon diversification is the name of the game in TFTD. Also, gauss has damage modifier issues which can make it totally ineffective against some (actually most) aliens. But Gauss does have something Sonic does not: Auto Shot. I find it useful when storming the inside of a USO. Accuracy at such close quarters is basically a non-issue. Damage from the sonic line is greater, but you will only be able to use Snap or Aimed shots. An Auto Shot from a Gauss Rifle is just as good as a Sonic Pistol since it's putting 3 shots on the target instead of 1. Of course, Gauss isn't going to do much against a few aliens so in this case Sonic has to be the primary weapon used. --Zombie 10:55, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

I've always considered it a stepping stone technology myself rather than a long lasting technology like laser tech. No - that honor goes to the drills. Such a pity they can't attack terrain!

Despite its damage being completely nerfed by the damage modifiers, autoshot for the gauss pistol and gauss rifle more than make up for it. The gauss weapons are mainly replacements for your jet harpoons and work very well against all the aliens you meet until you start fighting the lobstermen. By then you should've developed better weapons. In fact you would be wise to supplement them with sonic pulsers early into the game for when you need that extra punch. You can just as easily get by with Gas Cannons (and you can - they're awesome), but Gauss weapons fill the niche of your fast/weak assault weaponry that is valuable for your forward soldiers.

Is it a waste of research time though? Well - that's entirely up to you. It might matter if its your first time playing the game or if you're trying to run a speed game. But there's only a finite amount of technology available, so you can easily pick and choose the one you want right away and get the rest when there's not much else to do. No rush to T'Leth after all. But that's just how I approach the game. -NKF 16:04, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

Well one aspect that is quite similar to EU is the payoff for researching Gauss is the economic aspect, to manufacture Gauss Cannon for profit. So there is not just the tactical benefits to consider, there are also economic benefits for researching the Gauss stream. Spike 18:04, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

OMG, The Gauss/Laser Cannons. Geez. Takes QUITE a lot of researching to get them, and they're not as useful as Avalanche Missiles. The only point behind them is that you can sell them for big profit. GEEZ. ... Xcomutil's profit nerf renders them COMPLETELY useless, IMHO. In fact I'll add that to the wiki? ... But that's a good point, Spike.

No, you are right, there is no rush to T'leth. The rush is in researching Psi/MC, actually. Meh. ... Actually, NKF, I had a number of games (especially on Superhuman) where Lobstermen appeared far earlier than might seem reasonable. (of course the aliens should logically be very uhnreasonable and wipe you out with maximum force right from the start...). I found that not having researched Sonic when you get your first Lobsterman Terror Mission is a little horrifying.

Also, those freaking tentaculats! Freaking Flying Chryssalids! Erk. These alone make reaction fire very VERY important in TFTD. And, since reaction is always snap shot, I found that Gauss was never enough to save my agents from zombification, only sonics gave them a chance to survive.

I don't see how Gauss is a stepping stone to Sonics. It's more like a detour. (It is obvious Gauss Rifle is stepping stone to Gauss Cannon though).

The fact that auto-fire makes Gauss really powerful in close combat, eg when fighting in an alien craft, is a very very good point! ... However. DRILLS. Hmm hmm hmm.

Analysing the 4 races, Aquatoid and Gillmen can be easily dealt with via standard store bought equipment. Tasoth only take 70% Gauss damage and 120% sonic damage! Lobstermen laugh at Gauss. So, I find that using store bought Gas Cannons, and Hydrojet Cannons on Aquatoids and Gillmen seems to be very adequate to my needs. Especially, early on, my men have shit for accuracy and explosive ammo is uber... heck, those Terror units are pretty freaking resistant to Gauss too.

Anything, Gauss can do, Heavy Explosive does better. :)

Jasonred 22:31, 4 April 2009 (EDT)