User talk:Hobbes

Geneva

Hiya Hobbes. Check out my 5th Geneva Convention on Talk:CFN and see what you think.

Some of the points it may need to address are: XCOM exclusive right to deal with Aliens; basing rights; military cooperation: however I see it as an overall document that permits new directives and regulations to be issued by the Council so it doesn't have to cover everything.

feel free to move / copy / edit. Spike 02:22, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

Unknown Menace

I've just started reading your first XCom novel and I'm hooked! But I'm going somewhere with only patchy internet. Is there a way I can download the whole novel as a zip file? Spike 16:30, 9 September 2008 (PDT)

Here's the full book in a pdf file (3.4 mb). Have fun :) Hobbes 17:23, 9 September 2008 (PDT)

Thanks. I had a bit of a struggle to convert the RAR to .zip - RAR's not so common on some types of computer. And I've just this morning finished reading the whole thing. I'm very impressed, it's a big work. Must've taken you a long time to write it. I really like your take on a lot of the back story behind XCom, CFN, etc. It's an exciting plot, a "page turner" as they say. Spike 13:44, 13 September 2008 (PDT)

Thanks. Took me over 2 years to finish it, and I about figured the time required for me to write it after 3 months! I didn't simply want to give the 'ingame' perspective of endless battles. :) Hobbes 14:12, 13 September 2008 (PDT)

Apocalypse updates

Good work on the Apocalypse updates Hobbes. Problem I've always found with the wiki is that a lot of the articles are out of sight and therefore out of mind. With the updates, there looks like there are heaps of articles that need an overhaul and some of the not-entirely-canon bits left over from our earlier days that may need to be culled or revised. -NKF

Thanks. Updating this section will be a long term project and but the Mega-Primus section is mostly done, all it requires now is more images for the buildings and tactical tips for each building. Most of the other material can be reused though, in many cases it is merely a matter of rewording (changing gender into a neutral 'it' helps) but there's non-canon bits that should be dropped. Hobbes 06:31, 2 November 2009 (EST)

Is there a reason for the (Apocalypse) suffix at the end of Apocalypse page names? I mean, there aren't any Queenspawns, Skeletoids or Psimorphs in the other X-COM games so there should be no confusion figuring out which game they belong to (even less confusion if they are listed in the Apocalypse section template). I thought our agreed-upon standard was to only use a suffix if the page could be disambiguous (for example: Medi-Kit and Medi-Kit (TFTD), and in this case the UFO variant of the Medi-Kit takes precedence and doesn't require a (UFO) suffix). So before we go all crazy adding pages with the (Apocalypse) suffix let's please agree upon a standard to use. ;) --Zombie 22:22, 13 November 2009 (EST)

Good idea :). First my apologies because I assumed that there wasn't an already existing standard published elsewhere on the wiki. I decided to start following the -suffix rule because it makes it easier to categorize pages and know which categories they belong and when I started to make categories common to all the games it looked to me to be an easier way to figure out which game they belong to. I think it makes it easier for people who aren't familiar with all the games to know where they belong. The downside of it is that it can increase the work in linking pages but you can always use the older links since they should be all redirects.

Another argument I'd make is that I feel that UFO shouldn't have such a primacy over all the other games in the series, which happens using the current standard. To me UFO is the best game but Apocalypse is a clear second and it was the first I played. Using the suffixes for all the pages makes out that X-COM is a series of games, not just one centered on the first game (which happens to be the best one).

That's basically my reasons. But I'm open to any standard, and I like this discussion because I want to start categorizing the entire site and it's better to do it using a system agreed by everyone. :) Hobbes 23:04, 13 November 2009 (EST)

No need to apologize for anything. I recall a discussion somewhere on this site (a long time ago as well) where we tried to hash out how to handle stuff like this but don't remember where it was. The only reason why we didn't decide on using a suffix for UFO was only because it was the first game in the series, not because it was more important or popular. But looking at how the wikipedia handles disambiguation we should really have a general Medi-Kit disambiguation page and then ask the user to click on the game specific Medi-Kit page - thus requiring a suffix (for example Medi-Kit (UFO) and Medi-Kit (TFTD)).

I agree 100% that if you have a page name which could be common to more than one game (for example Aliens or Alien Life Forms) that a suffix is crucial to distinguish between them. I'm only worried about obvious game-specific pages which shouldn't require one and all the extra redirects which only serve to tax the server. A person looking for information on the Popper isn't going to explicitly search for "Popper (Apocalypse)", they will search for just "Popper". And it seems to me that if someone knows what a Popper is, they will automatically know which game it belongs to. Maybe not though. Perhaps each page should have an introduction (or badge or box cover art) indicating what game it is about. For instance, we could start out the Popper page by saying "The Popper is another extremely dangerous unit found in Apocalypse". That way if a person is searching for something and lands on that page they will know what game it belongs to just by reading the first sentence. Or if we like the badge or the box cover art idea more, we could simply add that image at the start of a page. Another idea along these lines is a template containing the image. Add that to all Apocalypse pages and you will have basically categorized the entire game simply by searching for which games contain that template.

If none of these are appropriate, we could just create a template navigation bar at the bottom of like pages. I can see this being really helpful in Apocalypse where there are a lot more things which can be categorized. ;) --Zombie 01:05, 14 November 2009 (EST)

The scope of categorization really applies to all other games, since there are a lot of specific categories that can be added (UFO probably has even more categories than Apoc due to its number of pages). The templates navigation bar are really helpful in looking for related pages but categorization is a way to internally organize the pages and make it easier to identify and create internal links to pages. I don't know how much redirects tax the server but if the links have been updated and there are the relevant ones on the pages along with template navbars then most of the information can be found using the links with the prefix them instead of having to type the term on the search box (and would also mean less work for the server to process search requests?). And it is fairly easy to update the links. Hobbes 01:32, 14 November 2009 (EST)

From my perspective, I don't see too much of a problem with giving the Apocalypse pages its own suffix. Searches for Popper will jump you right to the Popper (Apocalypse) page - the search will match up with the first part of the article name just fine. The real work is for us editors who have to do a bit of double handling with the wikilink creation, but otherwise there's not going to be a lot of work for the casual browser looking for information.

UFO and TFTD on the other hand are a slightly different kettle of fish. UFO was the core material for the site and has had the most focus so far. TFTD shares a lot of the general information that is in UFO, and it needed the TFTD suffix to disambiguate its specific brand of pages that clashed with UFO. Back then, the scope was rather narrow.

Now that we've got other titles like Apocalypse and UFO2000 getting more content (and I'm hoping Interceptor and Enforcer might eventually get some attention), our scope is expanding. UFO/TFTD can remain as they are, but we may need to start handling the other sections differently. Of course, we could just do what we've always done and only disambiguate the pages as necessary.

I guess it can't hurt to go either way as long as we don't end up with a lot of duplicate pages with conflicting information. -NKF 02:14, 14 November 2009 (EST)

I'm OK with either direction. Using the suffix immediately identifies the page with one of the games but that can be done as well by using Zombie's suggestion of having an image or some other template. Also, the more I look into the categories lists for Apocalypse the more it strikes me that the pages names with the suffix probably have too much visual clutter. Another thing that we should decide is the suffix for EU/UFO, not be used on the page names but on the categories. Hobbes 09:46, 14 November 2009 (EST)

Just found out the original discussion regarding suffixes on Talk:X-COM page. Essentially we are picking up the points left unanswered in that discussion since now Apocalypse sections have expanded. I propose keeping the pages without suffixes, except in the cases the names are the sames throughout the series (Battlescape, UFO, Research, etc.). In those cases a disambiguation page should be created. And regarding UFO/EU when names are shared throughout the series they get a suffix as well as the other games. Concerning categories they all have the suffix: as it is we all might know that [[Category: Facilities]] refers to facilities on the first game but for others that might not be so clear. (TFTD) and (Apocalypse) seem to be consentual, the main question is the first game. If we keep it an abreviation as TFTD then the logical choice would be (UFO:EU) or even just (EU) to simplify, using the name as it was first released.

Another thing related with the name for UFO:EU is that we should set the X-COM page on its own, describing the series and not having it as a redirect to UFO:EU. Whatever name we choose for the category regarding the first game it should also be the name for the page with the table containing all information about the first game. Hobbes 16:04, 14 November 2009 (EST)

Thanks for finding the link Hobbes, I knew I remembered seeing that somewhere. ;) Anyhow, I don't have much to add simply because I'm in complete agreement with all points. Regarding the category descriptor for the first game in the series, I suggest just EU (Enemy Unknown) due to the fact that's what it's called in the left menu. I don't think we should have UFO in there or a colon either as it might cause problems. Keep it simple stupid (KISS) is always the best approach. --Zombie 22:20, 24 November 2009 (EST)

A little off subject, but thanks for all the work on the wiki, Hobbes. I was dissappointed when I got a craving to play Apocalypse and saw how little info was available, after spending so much time in the information rich UFO Defense wiki. I will try to help you a little here and there, and if there is anything in particular you could use help with, send me a message. Talon81 15:08, 19 November 2009 (EST)